At My Wits End

LegacyUser

Feel like I'm going mad here. Seeing a guy for two years now. In the time that I've known him he has never had a job, nor has he been looking or shown any desire to do so. Every time I gently suggest something to him or point out something that might appeal to his interests/skills he gets all defensive and mad that I am "constantly on at him". I'm not. He never has any money to do anything/go anywhere/ buy anything. If I hear "oh babe I wish I was in the position to treat you in the way that you deserve" again I'll scream.Is it just me or if you were in that position would that not make you want to get a job?

In the time that I've known him I haven't been entirely successful on the job front either and have been out of work but I have had at least three jobs in that time and have always gotten another one if one didn't work out- why? Because I am not picky. If I'm given the choice of having money and being able to support myself or being broke I will do something that I dont necessarily enjoy, he wont. It's gotten to the stage that I know all of my friends and family are just dying for me to break up with him because all they can see is what he projects on the outside. I know he has a lot more potential, he is just always making excuses for himself. Always.

Recently my life has gone through alot of changes and improvements for the better and I am being encouraged to rid myself of the "dead weight". I do love him and I dont want to be one of those people that gets rid of someone and trades up just like that but its starting to annoy me that he doesn't think I deserve better and it doesn't bother him how little of an effort he makes. I wish I had the strength to break up with him but I am just gutless.

My question is what would you guys do? I'm also younger and I know it sounds terrible but it feels like I am wasting my youth with someone that is just intent on wallowing and never progressing in life. I just cant make him see that what is the point in prolonging things if this is how it will always be. Also its becoming harder and harder to be attracted to someone with no goals, motivation or passion for life. Sorry about the really long post.

Zen65

Unregistered wrote: »

.... it feels like I am wasting my youth with someone that is just intent on wallowing and never progressing in life.

Do you expect this feeling to pass? Do you think one day he'll wake up and decide it's time to get that job and treat you as an equal?

Neither seems likely to me, so in your position I would move on. Life is too short to waste on people who do not wish to better themselves, and if you stay with this man the resentment will grow rather than diminish. Wouldn't that be a waste of your time?

Be at peace,

Z

Ham Sambo

I think you answered your own question yourself, either he is depressed or just a down and out lazy babstard. Give him the choice of getting his arse into gear or leave him, I know it's easy for me to say this but looking at it from where I am it appears he is dragging you down. If that fails then it's time to get on with your own life.

Miss Fluff

It's highly unlikely he is going to change. This laziness and lack of any drive seems deeply ingrained. Is he a big pot smoker or anything? I'd be cutting my losses if I were you. You're only young and while I appreciate it that you love him, he's not going to grow and progress with you. Don't worry about "trading up", it's merely a case of you maturing and realising with age and experience what behaviour you will and won't put up with. We've all been there. Cut your losses hon.

LegacyUser

OP, are you prepared to support this guy for the rest of your life and can you be happy doing so?

If so, then stay with him and be happy.

If not, you have to call it a day. In his defence, he has given you no reason to suspect he'll ever change.

I hope whatever you decide works out for you.

curlzy

Hey OP,

Get out now would be my advise. That guy is doing nothing but bringing you down and you totally shouldn't stay with someone that you don't respect. My fella was a wee bit lazy when I first got with him, it got to me so much that eventually I put it to him that I'm not going to carry anyone through life. Luckily for me he got off his arse and the problem is non-existant now. I really would cut my loses if I were you, your youth is precious and gone so much faster than you think, don't waste it hanging around waiting for someone to change, he blatently doesn't want to.

Best of luck.

LittleBook

Unregistered wrote: »

If I'm given the choice of having money and being able to support myself or being broke I will do something that I dont necessarily enjoy, he wont. It's gotten to the stage that I know all of my friends and family are just dying for me to break up with him because all they can see is what he projects on the outside. I know he has a lot more potential, he is just always making excuses for himself. Always.

This is a fundamental difference which I don't think can be reconciled in a relationship.

fallen01angel

Unregistered wrote: »

If I hear "oh babe I wish I was in the position to treat you in the way that you deserve" again I'll scream.

If I was hearing this from a guy time and time again,I would be off screaming into the sunset as fast as I could....talk is cheap,as you said yourself,it's tough trying to get a job at the mo,but there are jobs out there,sure it might not be his "ideal" job but at least it would get him off his a**e and he could finally attempt "to treat you in the way you deserve",and no I'm not refering to spending huge amounts of money(just in case someone assumes I'm a materialistic bitach:),it's the little things in life.)It's his lazy mentality that would have me running away.TBH I think you're going to have to cut the deadweight hanging around your neck....yip I mean him.

Firetrap

Unregistered wrote: »

.. I know it sounds terrible but it feels like I am wasting my youth with someone that is just intent on wallowing and never progressing in life. I just cant make him see that what is the point in prolonging things if this is how it will always be. Also its becoming harder and harder to be attracted to someone with no goals, motivation or passion for life. Sorry about the really long post.

In that sentence you've answered your own question I'm afraid. I'm a big believer in actions speaking louder than words. It doesn't take much effort from your boyfriend to say all that stuff. Backing it up with action (i.e. getting up off his arse and upskilling or getting a job) is an entirely different matter. My gut reaction is to think he's full of horse manure. On the other hand, do you have anything to lose by sitting him down and telling him that if he doesn't change his ways, you're off?

LegacyUser

Unreg - this could actually be me talking. I'm in more or less the exact same boat, so I probably can't offer you much advise!! I've been with mine 2.5 years and at the moment we are probably in the process of a long-drawn-out break up which is very hard. The thing that I will say, which is so difficult to get across to people when you're saying about the job situation and the laziness, if that he does have really good qualities. Obviously, or I grant myself with more intelligence than to have stayed with him all this time. Like you, my friends and family have never approved, and only see the surface (which I totally understand - would be the same if it was my sister/friend etc). I'm not a materialistic person, but him having no money since I've met him has been, to be honest, boring. I make all the plans, and I have to factor in that he has no money. My biggest gripe was that he never thought I was worth actually sorting himself out for. I see my friends getting silly anniversary gifts (not expensive, even picked flowers!) and I never seem to get anything, which he says is because he can't afford it but realistically its because he can't be bothered. Its hard to get him out of bed before 2pm!! Even free activities, like outdoor stuff, is a struggle because he's totally nocturnal.
In fairness, he's been getting alot better over the past few months and he's just started a part-time Fas course (after me nagging him into it). But what I've come to realise is that he's doing it for himself, not for me. Nothing I have ever said has actually made any difference. His friends started doing things and so, finally, did he. That's what gets me - I feel like he never put in the effort to make me feel special. So no, when things are potentially looking better, we're actually breaking up - or at least it feels that way. I haven't gone over to his in 2 weeks and he hasn't called. It came down to me just not being able to imagine a future being so bored, and not going anywhere. I imagined our wedding, on a shoestring and with me trying to get him out of bed to get to the church! I just don't think I can go on like this being someone's mother.
I know exactly how you feel unreg, let me know how you get on.

LegacyUser

I'm not one for ultimatums but in this situation I think you need to tell him that he needs to get his shot together or you're done. A partnership should be both people working together, not one person carrying the other.

I'm sorry to say there seems to be lots of men like this around, is it a "new age" thing that, not all, but a lot of men these days expect to be able to sit back on their holes scratching while their women are the ones working, paying the bills etc? Certainly I've been in the same situation and alot of my friends and colleagues are currently in the same situation with their bfs and husbands as you've described.

LegacyUser

Sorry for splitting your post up but i just want to point out a few things, as someone who has been in your boyfriends position.

Unregistered wrote: »

He gets all defensive and mad that I am "constantly on at him". I'm not. He never has any money to do anything/go anywhere/ buy anything.

These two sentences contradict each other, the fact that you wrote them one after another highlights my point a little more. My ex could probably argue that she wasn't constantly 'on at me', and in one sense she wasn't, but comments about not being able to do this or that, or afford x or y, were probably made on a daily basis, so it truly did feel like it was always an issue. And it really did become extremely oppressive, to the point that i feel alot of energy was expended trying to control her emotions about the issue, and my emotions because of her emotions, which could've been directed elsewhere (reskilling, job hunting etc). And before anybody argues with me, it's just how i felt.

Unregistered wrote: »

It's gotten to the stage that I know all of my friends and family are just dying for me to break up with him because all they can see is what he projects on the outside.

It's not your family's business.

Unregistered wrote: »

Recently my life has gone through alot of changes and improvements for the better and I am being encouraged to rid myself of the "dead weight".

Unregistered wrote: »

it feels like I am wasting my youth with someone that is just intent on wallowing and never progressing in life

If you're bored of the relationship, or are bored of him, or feel you aren't compatible etc etc, then break up, but don't pin it all on him not having a job, which it sounds like you're doing (to me). For one thing, if you truly love him, consider that the chances of him never having a job are basically zero. He will have a job.

You never said what type of qualifications he has, if any, or what areas of work he would be looking at. You say you've gotten jobs because you're not picky. Another poster said that it seems to be a 'guy' thing now to be lazy and not work. I can't think of how to word what i'm trying to say without sounding sexist, so i'll just give my anecdotal experiences. I'm qualified and have a number of years experience in a public facing hospitality area. I have a good few guy and girl friends who have the same qualifications. During the time i didn't have a job, i probably handed out a few hundred cvs (minimum) as well as talking to many many people about positions etc, and several guy friends i know would've done the same. It was extremely rare to even get an acknowledgement, and i got called for zero interviews. Now this is the partially sexist part; i have several girl friends who, within handing out ~10 cv's, the first few days of job searching, had (i'm generalizing here but basically..) 5 interviews, 2 or 3 job offers. In the same area i've heard of guys effectively throwing cv's in the bin if they didn't belong to good looking girls. NOW. I'm not saying that this is universally the case, but i really do think that girls have a very different perspective of job hunting to guys. Failure to get a job becomes an indication of laziness or lack of will, because (in my experience) they're more used to, at least, getting an acknowledgment of an application.

I'm sorry if the above is completely irrelevant, but the tone of alot of the posts, and daftanddirect's in particular seeing as it's aimed directly at men, seem to be unaware that we've just experienced one of the worst (or the worst?) ever recessions (in the whole world).

daftanddirect wrote: »

I'm sorry to say there seems to be lots of men like this around, is it a "new age" thing that, not all, but a lot of men these days expect to be able to sit back on their holes

Without meaning to be rude, you have extraordinary powers of observation, noticing that there are alot of unemployed people in the country. Half a million people on the live register in a country with maybe 3 million people of working age. "I have a sneaking suspicion that some people...aren't...working!!". Stunning.


If the absolute main issue is him not having a job, but you truly do love him, there are many many things you could do before going to the extreme of breaking up, and that doesn't include badgering him about handing out cv's or him not having money because, in my experience, that's counterproductive and wholly unsupportive. If you feel like you do have to end things, and i'm sure you do feel that way with your friends and family all telling you to, i'd suggest something like an official 'break' (even though i don't like the idea of them), it might give him the space and impetus to work on himself and employment without having to worry about you being upset about his lack of work.

LegacyUser

This isn't the OP's post i'm quoting but i think it's an important point to consider, bearing in mind what i wrote in my previous post (having been in these guy's shoes etc)

unregistered wrote: »

Its hard to get him out of bed before 2pm!! Even free activities, like outdoor stuff, is a struggle because he's totally nocturnal.
In fairness, he's been getting alot better over the past few months and he's just started a part-time Fas course (after me nagging him into it). But what I've come to realise is that he's doing it for himself, not for me. Nothing I have ever said has actually made any difference.

I don't think enough people realise how unbearably, crushingly depressing it can be not having a reason to get up, not being able to buy fairly standard things for your partner etc, and especially taking all of this on while being aware of the stigma of being a man who isn't 'providing'.

You're saying "he's getting up at 2pm", can't even do free outdoor stuff. There's a reason for this ridiculous scenario, and it is NOT laziness. And you're saying the most important thing that i think the OP should know: there's already a ton of pressure on the guy, being unemployed etc, without knowing that he's failing his girlfriend aswell, and as counterintuitive as this sounds, and as you realised yourself, 'nagging' is going to do the opposite of help. The OP's guy needs to figure out how to do it for himself, however that might be, as your partner did. I don't know how to do this part though

LegacyUser

So I tried to talk to him. Explained that I was sick of making the effort and wished he would have a bit of drive as regards to life. Am now being given the silent treatment with barely any texts getting answered since last night and a vague answer when I asked was this him breaking up with me? He's so good at turning things on their head and making me the one at fault and himself the injured party.

Sephiroth_dude

Unregistered wrote: »

So I tried to talk to him. Explained that I was sick of making the effort and wished he would have a bit of drive as regards to life. Am now being given the silent treatment with barely any texts getting answered since last night and a vague answer when I asked was this him breaking up with me? He's so good at turning things on their head and making me the one at fault and himself the injured party.

Time for you too walk away?it'll hurt but it may give him the kick up the hole he needs.

LegacyUser

I'd go for a break if i were you. When me and my ex broke up, over the same issue, it spurred me on to improve my life for several reasons, as generally happens after a breakup. We're not together now because i guess too many bridges were burned, but in retrospect, it seems like such a silly wasteful idea to have broken up over a job. But it does sound like he needs space or something.

Firetrap

Now why am I not surprised to hear that. Be honest, do you think that he is ever going to change his ways? His reaction to what you said sums it all up really :rolleyes: You say you love him but honestly, where do you see this relationship going? Seeing as he's obviously never going to get up off his arse and do something about getting a job, you'll be the main breadwinner. Where do kids fit into this? A house? Holidays? You need to take a long, hard look at this relationship of yours and make some decisions.

floorpie

Firetrap wrote: »

Now why am I not surprised to hear that. Be honest, do you think that he is ever going to change his ways? His reaction to what you said sums it all up really :rolleyes: You say you love him but honestly, where do you see this relationship going? Seeing as he's obviously never going to get up off his arse and do something about getting a job, you'll be the main breadwinner. Where do kids fit into this? A house? Holidays? You need to take a long, hard look at this relationship of yours and make some decisions.

That's a bit of a weird leap to make - he doesn't have a job now therefore he never will and you'll always be the main breadwinner....? It wont help the OP seeing as she probably does feel that way, albeit irrationally seeing as a minority of the population will never work and her boyfriend's more than likely not part of that minority.

Firetrap

No I don't think so. OP's boyfriend hasn't tried to get a job or to do something to improve him circumstances ever since she has known him. He gets the hump when she brings the subject up. If I'm totally wrong about the chap, then all the better for the OP. She's free to accept or reject my opinion - it's just an opinion, the same as everyone else here is just offering their opinions. I just don't think that telling her that everything's going to be alright is particularly fair either. If she wants a future with this guy, she should be asking herself these questions. It is perfectly valid to ask just when will he get up off his arse and try to get a job. It would be one thing if he was trying and not succeeding. That he appears to be content to sit on his arse and do nothing is a cause for concern IMHO. When will he magically change his ways and do something I wonder?

floorpie

Firetrap wrote: »

No I don't think so. OP's boyfriend hasn't tried to get a job or to do something to improve him circumstances ever since she has known him. He gets the hump when she brings the subject up. If I'm totally wrong about the chap, then all the better for the OP. She's free to accept or reject my opinion - it's just an opinion, the same as everyone else here is just offering their opinions. I just don't think that telling her that everything's going to be alright is particularly fair either. If she wants a future with this guy, she should be asking herself these questions. It is perfectly valid to ask just when will he get up off his arse and try to get a job. It would be one thing if he was trying and not succeeding. That he appears to be content to sit on his arse and do nothing is a cause for concern IMHO. When will he magically change his ways and do something I wonder?

Ah don't get me wrong, you're right that questions should be raised. I just mean that he'll more than likely get a job at some stage in his life, i mean, almost definitely he will. Maybe he's not in the environment that he needs to allow this to happen, either in his county, the country, social environment, etc etc. But it'll happen at some stage. I'm just saying it'd be best not to scare the OP by extending her current problem into the idea of marriage and kids etc, because at the moment it's not relevant, and it'll probably weigh on the OP's mind now.

I dunno why i've heard this so much but, i've heard similar arguments so many times while talking to girls about people driving. "So and so can't drive, what are they gonna do when they have kids!", well...get a driving license obviously. It seems irrational to tarnish the distant future with present problems, when the particular problem could disappear overnight (in the case of getting a job)...or a few months in the case of the driving license thing.

The present problem is him not having a job and her being bored because of it in my opinion.

Sleepy

Look around you. This isn't an environment his dream job is going to fall into his lap in.

Ultimatum time.

solovely

floorpie wrote: »

I dunno why i've heard this so much but, i've heard similar arguments so many times while talking to girls about people driving. "So and so can't drive, what are they gonna do when they have kids!", well...get a driving license obviously. It seems irrational to tarnish the distant future with present problems, when the particular problem could disappear overnight (in the case of getting a job)...or a few months in the case of the driving license thing.

The present problem is him not having a job and her being bored because of it in my opinion.

But even if he does get a job in the future, he sounds like the kind of guy who would only be doing it because he has to, because its there, because he's been forced into. He sounds to me like someone who has no drive, ambition or motivation, and that for me would be a definite dealbreaker. It sounds like it extends to every part of his life, not just working - no interest in getting out of bed, doing outdoor activities, anything to make life better. He seems to just want to wallow in self pity, and working or not, that is an attitude thing, not a fact of life thing.

I'd get out quick before it becomes an even bigger deal!

floorpie

solovely wrote: »

But even if he does get a job in the future, he sounds like the kind of guy who would only be doing it because he has to, because its there, because he's been forced into. He sounds to me like someone who has no drive, ambition or motivation, and that for me would be a definite dealbreaker. It sounds like it extends to every part of his life, not just working - no interest in getting out of bed, doing outdoor activities, anything to make life better. He seems to just want to wallow in self pity, and working or not, that is an attitude thing, not a fact of life thing.

I'd get out quick before it becomes an even bigger deal!

You're listing the classic signs of depression that can be brought on by, surprise, not working. Without being too presumptuous, there's a good chance that you, and everyone you know, would probably be the same in the same situation. You can't really infer much about the future based on his current state; if he gets a job tomorrow his drive and ambition will likely all change for the better, that's just how it works.

Peetrik

Your obviously unsuited and ending it will save you both a lot of hardship in the longrun.

I'm a bit disgusted at some of the responses TBH. You love someone for who they are not some 'potential' ideal that you set for them or for how much 'stuff' they can buy you.

LegacyUser

I am not one of those people that expects to be showered with gifts or wined and dined every night of the week, there's a difference between expecting that from someone and just expecting not to have to tell someone about a night out/day outing weeks in advance just so they'll manage to scrape together the money. In a relationship it'd be nice to be in the position to take a holiday together/go away for a weekend or even be able to move in together as a natural stage of progression. The thought of moving in with him terrifies me as although I know he could pay his half the rent I know some of the bills and food and general household items would fall to me and I'm not exactly in the highest of paying jobs either.

Its bad when you can count on two hands and not even use every finger the amount of times you've been out with your partner in two years. Any improvement would be appreciated, I am not expecting to be treated like a princess.

Firetrap

Out of curiosity, did he ever work? Have you any idea what sort of life he led before he met you? Did he ever have a work ethic?

Morbert

Unregistered wrote: »

So I tried to talk to him. Explained that I was sick of making the effort and wished he would have a bit of drive as regards to life. Am now being given the silent treatment with barely any texts getting answered since last night and a vague answer when I asked was this him breaking up with me? He's so good at turning things on their head and making me the one at fault and himself the injured party.

You are the one who has turned things on their head and made you the one at fault. Tell him he is being childish, and that you do not have time for nonsense attitudes normally seen in 12-year-olds.