TV3 - Tonight @ 9pm - Ireland's Secret Cults

themadhair

Shameless promotion I know, but I'm actually really looking forward to this.

Teaser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T57lXZvLFhs

Elmo

themadhair wrote: »

Shameless promotion I know, but I'm actually really looking forward to this.

Only shameless if you are associated with the programme. Another tabloidly in-house doc from TV3?

themadhair

Elmo wrote: »

Only shameless if you are associated with the programme.

Hence the 'shameless'.

Another tabloidly in-house doc from TV3?

I'm quite hopeful actually. They filmed plenty of good footage with ex-members, a disconnected family member and yours truly for the Scientology segment. If they have similar good stuff for the other two segments then this could be very good indeed.

themadhair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKgx94QIiSc

Elmo

Disappointing it didn't really expose anything. The cults mention aren't secret as they are quite well publicized and they are more secretive. However the programme failed to expose their secrets.

All of the cults should have been contacted before going up to their door, little contact was attempted to be made to the Scientologist.

"Lets ring the intercom"!!!! why not investigate who is coming and going from the house after you have contacted the cult. Then you might get a sneaky interview. It looked like harassment before the harassment was needed.

Standing outside a house in Malahide doesn't really make for investigative journalism.

It suggests that the two guys at the Church of Prayer brought up the 250 picture, perhaps they did but I would like to see the start of that conversation, I suspect that it was brought up by the reporter.

The show didn't expose anything we didn't already know about the cults nor did it entice us with interviews with current member or confront these member.

2 of the former members of the Church of Prayer will be known, IMO they were badly disguised.

Allot of the "documentry" was for show it failed to raise conflicted or ask hard questions directly to the cults. If give a little more time the programme may have got an expose.

themadhair

Elmo wrote: »

All of the cults should have been contacted...

They were. Neither Scientology nor the Palmarians wanted to speak or say anything, and the only HoP contact was through legal letters.

Elmo

Three questions were asked at the start of the doc.

1. Who are the People Behind Them?

• House of Prayer Leaders are known and well documented
• They mentioned Fr. Dartmus but failed to profile him from the Palmarians
• The Irish leaders of Scientology were not revealed

2. Where do they get there money?
Their followers. Fine and answered.
3. Could you be there next target?
Well thats just a tabloid type fear factor question. Perhaps is the answer.

The House of Prayer

Former member John and Anne will be recognized by other member IMO. WYB Interview 5 mins in is a good piece but failing to get their own interview is problematic for the show. 2008 Abbington Estate in Malahide (7:00), really just an interview with the Sunday World reporter, rehashing his news story, it looks like this is their first attempt to make contact with Christina, this occurs again in England (18:40). Seems like they are more interest in her homes. At 33:37 we see the secret filming that took place with the hard sell of the €250 picture but I am unsure if this was mentioned in passing by the 2 men interviewed or did the reporter ask about the picture (this is important).

Palmarians (12:30 and again at 36:30)

Former member beth talks about her relationship with her mother and the church, this is a good account but is limited however important. The problem lies with the lack of communication from the church at 38:56 we are told the reporter did contact them with no reply. Who are the Irish Leaders? We know that Fr. Dartmus is the name of the leader but who is he? The pope was clearly identified and discussed but I assume this was already uncovered.

Scientology (23:36)

Again no mention of the Irish leaders of the Church of Scientology. They talk about the stars and the money in the church but this is not new information. The interview with Anne Robinson was interesting but like Beth she need more time. They didn't seem to get in contact with the church.

The information is there but the problem with the documentary is that it fails to bring anything new to the table. The House of Prayer is well documented, I hope they get their interview. Since much of the information is available about the House of Prayer it takes up most of the documentary, which has to be disappointing for the Scientology and Palmarian sections and much of what is provided in both sections is already know.

It would be interesting to know when it was filmed and when each communication took place, the documentary again fails to provide us with details of dates.

Where did you get the video? and when was it filmed?

RandolphEsq

I wish there would have been something on the connection between John Scottus school, the 'School of Philosophy' on Northumberland Road and that disgraced cult in the UK that got into serious trouble a few years ago.

themadhair

Elmo wrote: »

The interview with Anne Robinson was interesting but like Beth she need more time.

Longer piece with Anne:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv_ptVEP7fQ

They didn't seem to get in contact with the church.

They refused to speak. Having sent more than a few journalists in their direction I can tell you they rarely speak. There is only one person who does interviews in Ireland (Gerard Ryan), and if he refuses there simply isn't anyone else.

Tomk1

Missed this, I will look it up on TV3.
I assume this doc was with Mike Garde of Dialogue Ireland, and having seen him speak at CorkSkeptics.org and UCCatheists he doesn't hold back on names, I assume that TV3 decided on playing it safe for fear of libel.

Elmo

Firstly, I am not saying that it is not a good subject to make a documentary on, but I believe that the producers, editors and legal team needed to wait until they had more facts. Much of what is in the documentary is already know, fine it highlights it again but it ends up looking like a rushed job, which is promoted as an expose.

Dates need to be provided e.g. on what date did the Scientology protest take place? what date did they send their letters and what did they say in those letters? on what date did they get a response from the Church of Prayer? etc.

Missed this, I will look it up on TV3.

It has been posted on this thread.

themadhair

Elmo wrote: »

on what date did the Scientology protest take place?

August 27th iirc.

I cannot speak to the HoP or the Palmarians since I had no involvement there, but I do know that TV3 had been working on the Scientology bit for months now. There were originally plans to have Pete, Gabby and Gerard Ryan on the normal Midweek format. While it seems like waiting for a response should be done, at what point does it become obvious the person you trying to talk to is simply timewasting and stalling?

Elmo

themadhair wrote: »

While it seems like waiting for a response should be done, at what point does it become obvious the person you trying to talk to is simply timewasting and stalling?

That is documentary making for you, it takes a lot of time.

themadhair

Went back through some of the old posts on our forum. This was posted April 16th:
"Just for the record, Gabiwynne and myself were due to go on TV3's Midweek program but this was cancelled as they couldn't get a scientologist to appear. Way to communicate, cult."

Elmo

themadhair wrote: »

Went back through some of the old posts on our forum. This was posted April 16th:
"Just for the record, Gabiwynne and myself were due to go on TV3's Midweek program but this was cancelled as they couldn't get a scientologist to appear. Way to communicate, cult."

where they going on to Midweek that same week?

verity2

I have just discovered this thread and listened to the audio file of Ann Robinson speaking about her brother, his disconnect with the family through his involvement with Scientology and their power over him. I sympathise with Ann.

The Palmarian 'Church' has even more control over the minds of its members, e.g they are not allowed socialise with any non-Palmarians, but of course it is not said to the members as directly as that, they have gradually introduced rules over the past 10 years which have disconnected them from normal society, such as their rule saying that a person must be dressed according to Palmarian 'norms' or rules which effectively cuts out most women and most men, unless they happened to be wearing a shirt and tie (men).

There have been many new rules and changes to their beliefs and conduct over a period of twenty or more years and during this time the members have been tested along the way through rigid new rules and reminders of the damnation that awaits for those who are 'excommunicated'.
They are also told to expect terrible punishments and chastisements which God will inflict upon the world and everytime there is a natural disaster they are reminded of God's wrath and mans sinfullness. Hence they comply out of fear and they live in fear, fear of God, fear of their 'priest' and fear of breaking their rules.

Sadly I have siblings and nieces and nephews who are caught up in this cult and they would look through me if they passed me on the street, I am very worried for them all but especially for the children and the effect it must be having on their minds. Yet there is nothing I can do to help them. You may have seen on the TV3 programme that their headquarters is in Spain where their 'Pope' resides behind high walls. The amazing thing is that the Spanish Authorities just seem to turn a blind eye to them.