Spanish speeding ticket, what to do?

naughtysmurf

Please move if not in correct forum....

Don't have a whole pile of info but friend of mine was on hols in Spain and has just got a speeding fine mailed to her irish address. It's all in Spanish, I assume the car rental company forwarded it on to her.

Anybody have a similar situation in the past, what's the procedure, do you pay and if so who? / ignore.

They would have paid for car hire with a debit card, would have thought car hire company would have paid and then billed the customer

So if anybody can shed any light on what to do

Anan1

Pay it. Apart from the obvious common decency angle, the friend will have signed a rental contract agreeing to pay all speeding fines etc. If they force the car rental company to pay it on their behalf then they'll be hit with admin (and possibly late payment) charges too.

MugMugs

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Please move if not in correct forum....

Don't have a whole pile of info but friend of mine was on hols in Spain and has just got a speeding fine mailed to her irish address. It's all in Spanish, I assume the car rental company forwarded it on to her.

Anybody have a similar situation in the past, what's the procedure, do you pay and if so who? / ignore.

They would have paid for car hire with a debit card, would have thought car hire company would have paid and then billed the customer

So if anybody can shed any light on what to do

Car Hire company will probably hit your "friend" with the fine via their debit card if they dont pay.

I dont speak spanish though.... Does your friend ? Just asking because, I wouldn't know it was a speeding ticket if I got it.

naughtysmurf

MugMugs wrote: »

Car Hire company will probably hit your "friend" with the fine via their debit card if they dont pay.

I dont speak spanish though.... Does your friend ? Just asking because, I wouldn't know it was a speeding ticket if I got it.

Yep, that's the biggest prob, not being able to understand the document, 100km and 80km are mentioned plus time & date, which was her arrival date so she knows she was in the car at the time that's mentioned...may have to find someone who can read and understand spanish

Berty

Frankly they have probably already charged your friends credit card and a nice "administration fee" as well.

cpoh1

Ignore it.

Ive been caught speeding in Holland, Italy and Spain in the past and nothing has come of it when i ignored the letters. Used the same rental companies in those countries further down the line and there was no implications (hertz and europcar).

RobertFoster

naughtysmurf wrote: »

may have to find someone who can read and understand spanish

If you've a scan (or a legible pic from a camera) of the letter I could try and translate it for you. Failing that, you should be able to get the gist of a few sentences/phrases from the likes of Google Translate.

Bigcheeze

Same happened to me last year.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056085521

naughtysmurf

Cheers, thanks for that Bigcheese

Our man in Havana

Ignore it. I certainly would.

Bigcheeze

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Ignore it. I certainly would.

But you can't ignore the charge to the credit card + penalties + admin fee.

cpoh1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

But you can't ignore the charge to the credit card + penalties + admin fee.

If the fine has been sent to you directly by the spanish government it means that the rental copany are done with it after passing on your details and you wont be getting any credit card charges.

In 99% of cases the rental companies never take on the fine and chase you for the money, they simply forward your details to the repective authority.

You'd be mad to pay it.

Anan1

cpoh1 wrote: »

You'd be mad to pay it.

Or maybe just honest?

cpoh1

Anan1 wrote: »

Or maybe just honest?

My morality doesnt extend to paying speeding tickets in foreign countries, ive enough on my mind putting dinner on the table for my familyin Ireland. Either way maybe a new thread might be a better idea rather than taking this one off-topic?

Anan1

cpoh1 wrote: »

My morality doesnt extend to paying speeding tickets in foreign countries, ive enough on my mind putting dinner on the table for my family in Ireland.

That's you, others may be more honest. I think it comes down to respect for the people of the country one is visiting - if one doesn't have any then one shouldn't go there.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Either way maybe a new thread might be a better idea rather than taking this one off-topic?

Your not liking my point doesn't make it off-topic. If you don't like what you're reading then feel free not to reply.

cpoh1

Anan1 wrote: »

If you don't like what you're reading then feel free not to reply.

No offense but "liking" your post has nothing to do with it. The guy was looking for advice with a fine obtained in a foreign country. He's not asking for morality lessons.
There's been tons of threads in the past about this, try not to derail this one?

Anan1

cpoh1 wrote: »

No offense but "liking" your post has nothing to do with it. The guy was looking for advice with a fine obtained in a foreign country. He's not asking for morality lessons.
There's been tons of threads in the past about this, try not to derail this one?

He's asking for advice, and I gave him mine. Get over it.

Tat Boy

I got three fines which amounted to €900 about a month ago, no intention of paying but not sure what will happen when/if I return to Spain.

Bigcheeze

cpoh1 wrote: »

If the fine has been sent to you directly by the spanish government it means that the rental copany are done with it after passing on your details and you wont be getting any credit card charges.

In 99% of cases the rental companies never take on the fine and chase you for the money, they simply forward your details to the repective authority.

You'd be mad to pay it.

Won't it be referred back to the vehicle owner if unpaid ?

Our man in Havana

Nope!

CiniO

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Won't it be referred back to the vehicle owner if unpaid ?

Why should it.
Vehicle owner (rental company) revealed driver details and that's all they could do.
They can't be made liable for it just because driver refuses to pay.

Bigcheeze

CiniO wrote: »

Why should it.

Cos thats the way it works in Ireland. Owner is liable for fines.

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

Why should it.
Vehicle owner (rental company) revealed driver details and that's all they could do.
They can't be made liable for it just because driver refuses to pay.

That's an interesting one. Say you get a ticket and nominate me as the driver. What happens if I: a.) Deny being the driver, or b.) simply ignore the ticket? I'm not sure myself, but i've a feeling that liability doesn't pass from you until accepted by me.

opinion guy

Anan1 wrote: »

That's an interesting one. Say you get a ticket and nominate me as the driver. What happens if I: a.) Deny being the driver, or b.) simply ignore the ticket? I'm not sure myself, but i've a feeling that liability doesn't pass from you until accepted by me.

I think if the owner can't prove they weren't driving then they get the ticket

smash

Free toilet paper!

Anan1

opinion guy wrote: »

I think if the owner can't prove they weren't driving then they get the ticket

Which would make this untrue?

cpoh1 wrote: »

If the fine has been sent to you directly by the spanish government it means that the rental copany are done with it after passing on your details and you wont be getting any credit card charges.

In 99% of cases the rental companies never take on the fine and chase you for the money, they simply forward your details to the repective authority.

You'd be mad to pay it.

Homer

Any time I have ever rented a car abroad the contract made it very clear that any parking, speeding fines etc. received by the rental company corresponding to the time that I was responsible for that car, would be automatically charged to my credit card.
I would be extremely surprised if it is any different in Spain, or for that matter, anywhere else in the world. Even if you pay for the rental in cash, surely all car rental companies these days require a credit card number to reserve, and as a security deposit?
I would ignore it and see what happens? Who's to say that the fine ever got to you in the first place?

Cionád

I got two notices for Traffic Violations from France last month, Hertz billed me 19.99 for each as an admin fee for passing on my details to the Gendarme, and said the authorities will be in touch separately with details of the violations, fines and instruction how to pay the fines.

I'm playing the waiting game now.

Anyone here ever get a fine from France?

Anan1

Homer wrote: »

Any time I have ever rented a car abroad the contract made it very clear that any parking, speeding fines etc. received by the rental company corresponding to the time that I was responsible for that car, would be automatically charged to my credit card.
I would be extremely surprised if it is any different in Spain, or for that matter, anywhere else in the world. Even if you pay for the rental in cash, surely all car rental companies these days require a credit card number to reserve, and as a security deposit?

Me too, I think that's standard.

Homer wrote: »

I would ignore it and see what happens? Who's to say that the fine ever got to you in the first place?

The danger here is that, having given the OP the chance to sort it themselves and been ignored, the rental company will eventually hit the OP's credit card with the fine, associated late charges, and their own admin fee on top.

Homer

Anan1 wrote: »

Me too, I think that's standard.
The danger here is that, having given the OP the chance to sort it themselves and been ignored, the rental company will eventually hit the OP's credit card with the fine, associated late charges, and their own admin fee on top.

Valid point I guess. Why not just ring the rental company and ask them if they received anything in relation to the care hire in question and see what they say. I wouldn't volunteer any information about a ticket/fine etc but just test the waters?

Better that than receiving a hefty bill later down the line..

Anan1

Homer wrote: »

Valid point I guess. Why not just ring the rental company and ask them if they received anything in relation to the care hire in question and see what they say. I wouldn't volunteer any information about a ticket/fine etc but just test the waters?

Better that than receiving a hefty bill later down the line..

They must have, in order for the ticket to have been sent to the OP's friend.;)

Our man in Havana

Time to clear up all the misinformation and other crap.

Parking fines: These will be paid by the hire company as the owner is liable. Simples.

Speeding fines: The hire company passes on the details of the hirer to the police and charge an admin charge for the privilege. The police then contact the hirer if they chose to pursue it. Once the hire company have passed on the details they are free of any liability for the offence. It is up to the police to go after the hirer after that.

Anan1

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Once the hire company have passed on the details they are free of any liability for the offence. It is up to the police to go after the hirer after that.

I'd be interested in a source for this. It doesn't seem to make much sense that both the driver and the owner of the car could effectively deny all responsibility for a speeding ticket.

Bruthal

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd be interested in a source for this. It doesn't seem to make much sense that both the driver and the owner of the car could effectively deny all responsibility for a speeding ticket.

It is more likely that the car from a hire company was in fact been driven by a hirer of the car, rather than by the hire company. And they would have evidence if this, unlike one of us lending our mate our car who then speeds down the M50.

-Chris-

I always thought the arrangement here was, where a car is hired or leased to a third party, and nobody takes responsibility for the act of speeding, that the points would be applied to the licence of a director of the hiring or leasing company.

No link to back it up, just going from memory. Not sure how this applies in Spain.

Bruthal

-Chris- wrote: »

I always thought the arrangement here was, where a car is hired or leased to a third party, and nobody takes responsibility for the act of speeding, that the points would be applied to the licence of a director of the hiring or leasing company.

No link to back it up, just going from memory. Not sure how this applies in Spain.

A bit of a silly rule if thats the case.

CiniO

-Chris- wrote: »

I always thought the arrangement here was, where a car is hired or leased to a third party, and nobody takes responsibility for the act of speeding, that the points would be applied to the licence of a director of the hiring or leasing company.

No link to back it up, just going from memory. Not sure how this applies in Spain.

I've heard that version here on this forum few times before.
Probably that must be the case in Ireland, but I can't believe it works like that anywhere else.

In most countries (at least within EU) there is approximation that someone is not guilty unless proven.

Normally how it works is that after caught speeding authorities contact car owner to nominate who was driving. If he nominates himself, then fine is issued. If he nominates someone else, then they contact that person to confirm. If such person confirms - then fine is issued. If such person claims he/she wasn't driving, then they come back to the owner with statement that person nominated by him claims he/she wasn't driving, so someone must have made a false statement.

In Ireland it looks like they assume if your car was speeding, then you are guilty. And then it's up to you to prove it wasn't you. IMHO that's really crap, as it should work the other way. It should be up to them to prove it was you driving. And I believe that's the way it work almost everywhere else.

Hence in your example of Company director being awarded fine and points, we can reach the situation, where Company director will lose his licence, even though he never committed any road offence, and drives only on the weekend with his family.
That's absolutely rubbish.

CiniO

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Cos thats the way it works in Ireland. Owner is liable for fines.

But fine is from Spain. Not Ireland.

CiniO

Homer wrote: »

Any time I have ever rented a car abroad the contract made it very clear that any parking, speeding fines etc. received by the rental company corresponding to the time that I was responsible for that car, would be automatically charged to my credit card.
I would be extremely surprised if it is any different in Spain, or for that matter, anywhere else in the world. Even if you pay for the rental in cash, surely all car rental companies these days require a credit card number to reserve, and as a security deposit?
I would ignore it and see what happens? Who's to say that the fine ever got to you in the first place?

Anytime I was renting a car, contract alway said that if they receive any fines for speeding, parking, etc, then they charge some amount (usually about €30) admin fee to pass my details to authorities.
It's up to authorities then to contact me with a fine.
They can't issue a penalty to rental company, as it wasn't rental company driving. It was me driving.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd be interested in a source for this. It doesn't seem to make much sense that both the driver and the owner of the car could effectively deny all responsibility for a speeding ticket.

It's fairly simple.
If both deny responsibility for speeding ticket, then it means that someone had to made a false statement, and therefore further actions have to be taken.

That's why vast majority of speed cameras in the EU, take picture of a car that way that drivers face is visible.

Bruthal

CiniO wrote: »

It's fairly simple.
If both deny responsibility for speeding ticket, then it means that someone had to made a false statement, and therefore further actions have to be taken.

That's why vast majority of speed cameras in the EU, take picture of a car that way that drivers face is visible.

Also, in the case of a hire company, they will likely have strong evidence as to who actually had the car at the time of the offence.

Bigcheeze

CiniO wrote: »

But fine is from Spain. Not Ireland.

Yes and not one person on the thread seems to be able to provide any Spain-specific information.

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

It's fairly simple.
If both deny responsibility for speeding ticket, then it means that someone had to made a false statement, and therefore further actions have to be taken.

That's why vast majority of speed cameras in the EU, take picture of a car that way that drivers face is visible.

My guess is that responsibility rests with the car owner until someone else accepts it.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

My guess is that responsibility rests with the car owner until someone else accepts it.

Imagine a situation.
I was in Poland few weeks ago, and was driving my friend's car.
If I was caught speeding by a speed camera - my friend would get a letter to nominate the driver. So he fills that in and passes my details with my address in Ireland.

Now - they send a fine to my address in Ireland, but I don't give a damn, and throw it straight to the bin.

According to what you are saying - my friend would be responsible.

Question is - why should he?
He didn't commit an offence, so he can't be prosecuted for committing it.

As he is the car owner he might be suspected that he committed it, but he can't be prosecuted until proven guilty.

So what would probably happened - they would ask him to come over to police station, and compare face of the driver from speed camera picture with his face. If they match - he would be prosecuted for speeding and additionally for making false statements (nominating me).
If picture and face don't match - there would be nothing they can do.
He nominated a driver (me), and they can't prove it was false statement.
They as well couldn't prove it was him driving, so they can't prosecute him.

That's really basic rule that someone has to be proven guilty before he can be prosecuted.

From what I know that's the way it works in most EU countries.
And I still don't understand why it's different in Ireland.

Bruthal

Anan1 wrote: »

My guess is that responsibility rests with the car owner until someone else accepts it.

Well if the owner can prove who had the car, but the person wont accept, why should the owner now pay.

D_murph

CiniO wrote: »

Imagine a situation.
I was in Poland few weeks ago, and was driving my friend's car.
If I was caught speeding by a speed camera - my friend would get a letter to nominate the driver. So he fills that in and passes my details with my address in Ireland.

Now - they send a fine to my address in Ireland, but I don't give a damn, and throw it straight to the bin.

According to what you are saying - my friend would be responsible.

Question is - why should he?
He didn't commit an offence, so he can't be prosecuted for committing it.

As he is the car owner he might be suspected that he committed it, but he can't be prosecuted until proven guilty.

So what would probably happened - they would ask him to come over to police station, and compare face of the driver from speed camera picture with his face. If they match - he would be prosecuted for speeding and additionally for making false statements (nominating me).
If picture and face don't match - there would be nothing they can do.
He nominated a driver (me), and they can't prove it was false statement.
They as well couldn't prove it was him driving, so they can't prosecute him.

That's really basic rule that someone has to be proven guilty before he can be prosecuted.

From what I know that's the way it works in most EU countries.
And I still don't understand why it's different in Ireland.

The reason is because they want the money and dont really care where they get it from .

Its a badly flawed system alright. You should not have to prove yourself innocent, it should be the other way around like it is for serious crimes :rolleyes:.

Our man in Havana

It is the legacy of the money grabbing FF government that enacted the legislation. Couple that with the Irish attitude of bend over and take it up the ass. Ireland is the only EU state that has owner liability for speeding offences.

All it will take is someone with a big wad of money to challenge the law in the Supreme Court and beyond.