overpronation

gsxr1

I have overpronation in 1 foot. It is really hurting my knee even after corrective shoes.

I have entered my first race in December and starting to worry. I cant seem to train in hard ground at all. I can run forever on grass.


What are my options?

dahat

Physio for medical advice.........

A recommended running store for shoes that not suit your gait but your weight,running aims etc............

gsxr1

Went to B2R from the trainers and a test . But the problem seems to be getting worse.

Can anyone recommend a Physio in Naas that does not cost an arm and a leg.

rom

I had an issue with knee pain earlier this year. New to running also. I thought it was pronation as that was the fancy excuse but it wasn't. Don't dignose yourself like I did and spend months then thinking that you might have to give up running. You are probably better to google reasons for knee pain for runners and symtoms rather first as we can't tell you the possible reasons but there are many other than the one you mentioned. I went to a physio who didn't tell me what the problem was. My doctor did. Physio wanted me to come back I'd say.

Hatcho

gsxr1 wrote: »

Went to B2R from the trainers and a test . But the problem seems to be getting worse.

Can anyone recommend a Physio in Naas that does not cost an arm and a leg.

There's a very good physio place a few doors down from the old Tesco in Naas. Linky here. Have been there once or twice and very happy with the result.

Think its €50 odd for the first visit and €40 after that. Twas worth every penny in my case....sorted me out on two occasions when I had some real bad knee pain followed later by discomfort under the ball of my left foot.

dahat

Just curious,what runners are you using?

Over pronator myself with knee pain though not knee pain if ya get me!
Changing runners myself pretty soon so need to upgrade from Lunar Eclipses for more structure and cushioning.......

tunney

The OPs age, height and weight would be relevant.

gsxr1

tunney wrote: »

The OPs age, height and weight would be relevant.

I'm 35 . 5' 10" and weigh 85 kg .large build

The overproduction trainers are asics gt 2160 . I am running for over 1 month . 6km every other day.

RayCun

Why do you think it is the overpronation in one foot that causes the problem?

You're a big guy, you've just taken up running a month, and now you're running every second day. Your joints have to get used to a different set of stresses, your running form might be awful, and you could be trying to do too much, too soon.

dahat

gsxr1 wrote: »

I'm 35 . 5' 10" and weigh 85 kg .large build

The overproduction trainers are asics gt 2160 . I am running for over 1 month . 6km every other day.

Jaysus im 34,5'11 and 100kg............if you are big then i am a monster!!!!

tunney

gsxr1 wrote: »

I'm 35 . 5' 10" and weigh 85 kg .large build

The overproduction trainers are asics gt 2160 . I am running for over 1 month . 6km every other day.

Years and years ago I played junior hurling. I was a fat pr!ck and the club got in a fitness coach for the seniors and the juniors were expected to do the same. The fitness coach was Mick Dowling. He had us running lots (for then, for hurlers). My knees hurt. I looked for aids, runners, anything to help with the pain. In the end I asked Mick what could I do to stop my knees hurting. He looked at me, poked me in the belly and said "loose that".

harsh but very very true.

I don't like BMI in general but for sedentary people its okay

Overweight = 25–29.9

You are 26.8

You are overweight. loose weight and increase things gradually and your legs will be fine.

rom

If we are giving advise now. I would recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJLxruO3su0 . Sorted out all my knee problems. Very similar weight and height to you also new to running. Never thought that I could do 40 miles a week but from 5k 3 times a week in Jan to this now. So don't mind them with lose the gut. Running will make it happen. My BMI is 25.4

For me when I have sore calves then they are sore but when my IT Band is tight I get sore knees. Simple.

dahat

Love that video......been using wavvin pipe myself but foam roller looks alot easier on the body!

ecoli

rom wrote: »

If we are giving advise now. I would recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJLxruO3su0 . Sorted out all my knee problems. Very similar weight and height to you also new to running. Never thought that I could do 40 miles a week but from 5k 3 times a week in Jan to this now. So don't mind them with lose the gut. Running will make it happen. My BMI is 25.4

For me when I have sore calves then they are sore but when my IT Band is tight I get sore knees. Simple.

Mod:The ban on Medical advice still stands just in case there is some confusion here however the tips you gave are general running improvements rather than medical advice which is grand

gsxr1

There is a little more. I broke my ankle summer last year. It is the same leg that gives me trouble.

I got an gait analysis done and showed overpronantion on the effected leg.

I dont feel over weight tbh. I dont have any belly. I am muscular from a lifetime of carpentry .

Im not completely new to running . I have just stepped it up in the last month, and taken it a bit more seriously. I run 75% more and no longer go to the gym.

I have to train for my 10k on the 11 december and can not yet run 10k. I could be trying to hard, but I was under the impression that that was the correct thing to do.

As for my form. I dont know. How can I learn about that?

Ice, cold bath and difine gel makes for a quick recovery . Both calfs feel swollen all the time.

Does joint pain (in general go away). It is not very sore . more of a tingle and ache.


Can I train 100% on grass and expect to do well on the road, on the day?


Thank you so far for your helpful advise( even though ye called me fat LOL)

rom

gsxr1 wrote: »

There is a little more. I broke my ankle summer last year. It is the same leg that gives me trouble.

I got an gait analysis done and showed overpronantion on the effected leg.

I dont feel over weight tbh. I dont have any belly. I am muscular from a lifetime of carpentry .

Im not completely new to running . I have just stepped it up in the last month, and taken it a bit more seriously. I run 75% more and no longer go to the gym.

I have to train for my 10k on the 11 december and can not yet run 10k. I could be trying to hard, but I was under the impression that that was the correct thing to do.

As for my form. I dont know. How can I learn about that?

Ice, cold bath and difine gel makes for a quick recovery . Both calfs feel swollen all the time.

Does joint pain (in general go away). It is not very sore . more of a tingle and ache.


Can I train 100% on grass and expect to do well on the road, on the day?


Thank you so far for your helpful advise( even though ye called me fat LOL)

Compression socks and foam rollers can help with a lot of the pain. You should drink more fluids during and after training also. Water is fine but sip rather than drink a few pints.

RayCun

You could try following this training programme.
The distance will build up gradually, and the pace (as it says in the plan) should be easy, allowing you to carry on a conversation as you run. Both of these things will make the training easier on your knees, and allow them to get stronger over the ten weeks. And even though you should be running fairly slowly, you will get gradually faster through the plan and at the end of it will be able to run at a decent pace.

macinalli

+1 for what Ray says. While you're not completely new to running, you are planning on building up to your first 10k so a novice plan is appropriate. The key thing is to follow the plan and gradually build up til the race in December. Your first race should be about (i) completing it and (ii) enjoying it; after that you can look at how to improve for the next one!

As for weight, everyone has a different idea of if they're overweight or not. Either way, you'll still have to carry those 85kg around the course and the more you can lose, the easier it'll be on the joints. Again the key is gradual training and a healthy diet. The training in Rays link above will get you around the 10k, but will not burn off a bad diet.

gsxr1

that training schedule seems almost to easy. How much adjustment could one make to make it feel a little harder..

I have been tracking my progress with a gps tracker.

here is where im at. There is more previous to september but I dont think its relevant as its so long ago now
Running Sep 25, 2011 5.60 km 34m:43s
- Running Sep 22, 2011 4.01 km 24m:54s
- Cycling Sep 20, 2011 12.38 km 34m:44s
- Running Sep 18, 2011 6.06 km 35m:34s
- Running Sep 16, 2011 2.23 km 14m:40s
Running Sep 16, 2011 5.50 km 36m:40s
- Cycling, Sep 14, 2011 5.07 km 11m:58s
- Running Sep 14, 2011 4.35 km 31m:31s
- Cycling, 14, 2011 7.38 km 19m:39s
- Cycling, Sep 13, 2011 5.14 km 14m:05s
- Running Sep 13, 2011 5.05 km 36m:44s
- Cycling, Sep 13, 2011 7.36 km 22m:37s
- Cycling, Sep 9, 2011 5.07 km 12m:54s
- Running Sep 9, 2011 2.29 km 14m:50s
- Cycling, Sep 9, 2011 8.46 km 24m:57s
- Walking Sep 2, 2011 4.96 km 46m:48s
- Running Sep 1, 2011 2.20 km 13m:55s

- Running Aug 31, 2011 2.19 km 13m:39s

macinalli

Cycling is good, but it won't do that much for your 10k. Likewise walking will be very little benefit. The relevant training then for your 10k run is:
Running Sep 25, 2011 5.60 km 34m:43s
- Running Sep 22, 2011 4.01 km 24m:54s
- Cycling Sep 20, 2011 12.38 km 34m:44s
- Running Sep 18, 2011 6.06 km 35m:34s
- Running Sep 16, 2011 2.23 km 14m:40s
Running Sep 16, 2011 5.50 km 36m:40s
- Cycling, Sep 14, 2011 5.07 km 11m:58s
- Running Sep 14, 2011 4.35 km 31m:31s
- Cycling, 14, 2011 7.38 km 19m:39s
- Cycling, Sep 13, 2011 5.14 km 14m:05s
- Running Sep 13, 2011 5.05 km 36m:44s
- Cycling, Sep 13, 2011 7.36 km 22m:37s
- Cycling, Sep 9, 2011 5.07 km 12m:54s
- Running Sep 9, 2011 2.29 km 14m:50s
- Cycling, Sep 9, 2011 8.46 km 24m:57s
- Walking Sep 2, 2011 4.96 km 46m:48s
- Running Sep 1, 2011 2.20 km 13m:55s
- Running Aug 31, 2011 2.19 km 13m:39s

That makes 10 runs in 26 days, total of about 40k. The key thing for all running is developing a running base, and you don't have that. To get that you need to gradually increase your weekly mileage and the linked training plan will do that. At that point when you're doing 20k a week (you're averaging 10k a week for the training above) you can start thinking about making it harder by including speedwork etc. If you do that now, there's a chance you'll just get injured. For now it's just about gradually increasing the distance.

gsxr1

ok. Im going to give it a shot with the program. Will keep yas posted on it.

macinalli wrote: »

The training in Rays link above will get you around the 10k, but will not burn off a bad diet.

I have managed to lose 2 KG over the last 2 months by simply improving my diet. Less oven ready food and more fresh food +smaller portions and no more beer .



thanks again.

anymore

dahat wrote: »

Just curious,what runners are you using?

Over pronator myself with knee pain though not knee pain if ya get me!
Changing runners myself pretty soon so need to upgrade from Lunar Eclipses for more structure and cushioning.......

I changed on physios advice from Lunar gliders to Nike structures for more support and they ave helped somewhat with an ongoing problem with one foot and groin though the problem has chnaged now to being mainly a groin issue.

dahat

anymore wrote: »

I changed on physios advice from Lunar gliders to Nike structures for more support and they ave helped somewhat with an ongoing problem with one foot and groin though the problem has chnaged now to being mainly a groin issue.

My own physio is mad keen on Kyano's for me....at 140 ish pricey

shels4ever

dahat wrote: »

My own physio is mad keen on Kyano's for me....at 140 ish pricey

shop around, i wear kayano's and don't usually pay more then 100 for them, it might mean you need to buy them when your new pair are still good. Lifestyle were selling them for 100, 4-5 weeks ago.. amazon have great deals from time to time, picked up some for €60 last year.

gsxr1

dahat wrote: »

My own physio is mad keen on Kyano's for me....at 140 ish pricey

i tried Brooks Adrenalin is also worth looking at as well. It was on the list of pronation shoes. I found them very firm and hard compared to the asics gt 2160.

B2R in Ballymount charged 105e for them. Yesterday I seen the same shoe in LifeStyle Sports for 84e. A bit sick now.


Started the 10k novice program today. 2.5 miles and joints are fine:)

tunney

gsxr1 wrote: »

i tried Brooks Adrenalin is also worth looking at as well. It was on the list of pronation shoes. I found them very firm and hard compared to the asics gt 2160.

B2R in Ballymount charged 105e for them. Yesterday I seen the same shoe in LifeStyle Sports for 84e. A bit sick now.


Started the 10k novice program today. 2.5 miles and joints are fine:)

When you bought the shoe in B2R - I'm assuming you got advice and in effect the shoe selected for you?

Had you bought the shoe in LifeStyle.... well you probably wouldn't have bought the shoe in lifestyle as they probably either (a) wouldn't have recommended a shoe (b)recommended the wrong shoe.

When buying from a specialist shoe that offers real advice you will pay a premium (that being said most of the specialists shops are fairly poor but some are worth it)

gsxr1

tunney wrote: »

When you bought the shoe in B2R - I'm assuming you got advice and in effect the shoe selected for you?

Had you bought the shoe in LifeStyle.... well you probably wouldn't have bought the shoe in lifestyle as they probably either (a) wouldn't have recommended a shoe (b)recommended the wrong shoe.

When buying from a specialist shoe that offers real advice you will pay a premium (that being said most of the specialists shops are fairly poor but some are worth it)

That is a very worthy point. The man in B2R spent 35 mins with me on the gait machine, and I tried 5 types of shoe. And have a 3 month warranty on my asics . If they dont suit, I take them back and try another brand.


I was trying to suggest that if you know what you want and dont need professional advise then there is much cheaper options out there.

I guess you get what you pay for in this world.

anymore

dahat wrote: »

My own physio is mad keen on Kyano's for me....at 140 ish pricey

My own physio suggested a cople of brands and gave me her headed notepaer a to show the sports shop. The addidas I found were a little bit wide so i have stuck with Nike.
I would love to go back to the Lunar Gliders though as they were so light but as my runs are marathons, I need the support.

dahat

Would be after a wide fit myself..
Nearest specialist shop to me is Runways in Dublin,well recomended here.

thehorse

if your feet are pronating, the first thing you need it to get your feet measured and see how much they are actually pronating. Secondly, you will need orthotics to correct it as the problem with your feet is actually putting stress on your kness, shins and other joints.

running shoes alone will _NOT_ fix your problem.

i know, both my feet are pronating.

dahat

thehorse wrote: »

if your feet are pronating, the first thing you need it to get your feet measured and see how much they are actually pronating. Secondly, you will need orthotics to correct it as the problem with your feet is actually putting stress on your kness, shins and other joints.

running shoes alone will _NOT_ fix your problem.

i know, both my feet are pronating.

Yes but orthotics are 300 euro ish in general.......mad money i tell ya

thehorse

they are, but they will resolve the issue once and for all.

a scan called a 'gaitscan' at any good physio who does orthotics will identify how your foot is pronating and the orthotics can then be made to address the prob. there are lots of different types.

if you dont get them, trust me..you will be in constant pain & discomfort.

i am not a physio, just a person who had this problem and got orthotics to address the problem. I havent looked back since then.

dahat

thehorse wrote: »

they are, but they will resolve the issue once and for all.

a scan called a 'gaitscan' at any good physio who does orthotics will identify how your foot is pronating and the orthotics can then be made to address the prob. there are lots of different types.

if you dont get them, trust me..you will be in constant pain & discomfort.

i am not a physio, just a person who had this problem and got orthotics to address the problem. I havent looked back since then.

Might talk to my physio on next appointment,see what she says.

tunney

thehorse wrote: »

they are, but they will resolve the issue once and for all.

a scan called a 'gaitscan' at any good physio who does orthotics will identify how your foot is pronating and the orthotics can then be made to address the prob. there are lots of different types.

if you dont get them, trust me..you will be in constant pain & discomfort.

i am not a physio, just a person who had this problem and got orthotics to address the problem. I havent looked back since then.

Going back to the post on "is pronation a problem to be corrected".

I was always told that orthotics were the first (and last) resort of a lazy/poor physio.

dahat

Will a running shoe allow me to run in comfort and to the best of my ability?

Why are shoes desinged as such for over/under pronators if they won't with out orthotics in them?

ThisRegard

I'm both an over pronator and flatfooted. I don't wear, or feel the need for, othotics and don't get occasional or constant pain anywhere on my body as a result. I'm actually heading in the direction of less support stability as a result of a pair of Innov8s I've been wearing which are very comfortable.

tunney

dahat wrote: »

Will a running shoe allow me to run in comfort and to the best of my ability?

Why are shoes desinged as such for over/under pronators if they won't with out orthotics in them?

dahat wrote: »

Jaysus im 34,5'11 and 100kg............if you are big then i am a monster!!!!

gsxr1

How would one change the form of their running to help?

I have been on the ole youtube and it would seem im a heel to toe runner.

Yesterday I ran a few miles and was very conscious of the way my lefty foot hit the ground. I was trying to land my heal centered on the heal.

I came home with no joint pain. Calfs a little sore . But ok today again.

dahat

tunney wrote: »

Something in this?...............

tunney

dahat wrote: »

Something in this?...............

100kg, 5'11. Discomfort running. I was trying to suggest that orthotics are not going to solve the problem.

I've been there, running while that heavy isn't pleasant and respect for doing it. But its not going to be comfortable on knees and feet in any shoes, with any orthotics at 100kg.

dahat

tunney wrote: »

100kg, 5'11. Discomfort running. I was trying to suggest that orthotics are not going to solve the problem.

I've been there, running while that heavy isn't pleasant and respect for doing it. But its not going to be comfortable on knees and feet in any shoes, with any orthotics at 100kg.

Well aware of weight issue.........didn't look for weight advice..........

Bally8

tunney wrote: »

Going back to the post on "is pronation a problem to be corrected".

I was always told that orthotics were the first (and last) resort of a lazy/poor physio.

Would you tunney or anyone else know what I could do to fix regularly occuring injuries related to over pronation? Over the years I've had ITB issues, an achilles injury and now planter fasiica pain. My physio is now recommending orthotics but I just dont want to spend that kind of money especially if what you're saying is true.

I've been doing exercises my physio recommended for strenghting my hips and balance but what else can you do to fix bio mechanical problems apart from orthotics?

tunney

dahat wrote: »

Well aware of weight issue.........didn't look for weight advice..........

You looked for advice on what would make running comfortable.

dahat

tunney wrote: »

You looked for advice on what would make running comfortable.

No i didn't,asked about running shoes....

gsxr1

can anyone recommend an orthotics clinic?

after 1 month rest from really bad shin splints , im getting the same problem as soon as I started training again.

I have done everything the doctor said and the sore inside shin came right back as soon as I run on the road. waste of time listening to him.

I cant walk on my leg with out pain.

I need the right people to have a look.

A0

Your overpronation problem might be solved by cross training instead of always running. Do some bike or cross trainer sessions, these are weight bearing activities, they remove the stress on your joints and muscles but also strengthen your quads. As a first step do your high intensity sessions on the bike or cross trainer and then do them when running on grass.
You say it in you last post, you have your problem "as soon as you come back running on the road"...I'd try to lose weight if I were you, too.
Strengthening your quads and claves will help in better controlling your ankles-feet when footstriking...

sconhome

gsxr1 wrote: »

can anyone recommend an orthotics clinic?

after 1 month rest from really bad shin splints , im getting the same problem as soon as I started training again.

I have done everything the doctor said and the sore inside shin came right back as soon as I run on the road. waste of time listening to him.

I cant walk on my leg with out pain.

I need the right people to have a look.

Not being funny or smart, but have you had your gait checked and are you wearing the correct shoe for you?

corny

gsxr1 wrote: »

can anyone recommend an orthotics clinic?

after 1 month rest from really bad shin splints , im getting the same problem as soon as I started training again.

I have done everything the doctor said and the sore inside shin came right back as soon as I run on the road. waste of time listening to him.

I cant walk on my leg with out pain.

I need the right people to have a look.

I had what what might be termed 'shin splints' for nearly two years when i was younger. I'd rest, wait a while for it to clear up and get back to running only for it to resurface again. With hindsight now i was very foolish in that i always rushed recovery. You're going to have to take things painfully slow after a months rest. Forgive me if this isn't true but i get the impression you're doing too much too soon and focusing on everything bar the important bit ie take it slow and build up very slowly.

dahat

amphkingwest wrote: »

Not being funny or smart, but have you had your gait checked and are you wearing the correct shoe for you?

Not every shoe for over pronation suits feet that over pronate as i found out to my cost.
Use a store that has many brands not just 1/2 brands of shoe,salesmen smell money when potential buyers come look for shoes,not all shops just some.

After wearing Lunar eclipes for a while i picked up injuries so i changed to Brooks Beast and these are working well for me so far...Get your foot looked at by good people and not uncalibrated machines

gsxr1

I had a gait test done in B2R and got a pair of Asics. Cost a few pound as well. I have also been taking its slow.

I began 2 weeks ago on grass. 1.5 miles for 6 evenings. That went well. No pain.

But last night I did 2 miles on road. I loved it and did not want to stop. This morning I cant walk on the leg very well.

Same old pain. Im very upset as I love to run.

I broke the ankle on that leg 1 year ago and have a flat foot on one foot. Weird. By rights I should wear two different types of shoe on each foot as both gait differently. I have been strengthening my quads and gluts to prepare for my return. Made no difference.

Frustrated i am:(

sconhome

gsxr1, bring the shoes back to Kevin / Damian and explain what you have done in terms of distance.

You may simply have overdone it on the road. There is a big difference between the surfaces and similar to a treadmill mileage on grass does not always transfer to the road.

The guys will check this out again for you and if necessary Darren Kelly has a sport treatment clinic in Base2Race. He does a dynamic assessment for fitting of orthotics.