Changes to Job Bridge Internship FYI

Pandora2

Changes to Job Bridge Internship Scheme Very Much Welcomed – Simon Harris


Friday, 23 September 2011 at



Up until this point, applicants had to be unemployed or in receipt of social welfare for three months before becoming eligible for taking part in the Job Bridge initiative and the benefits associated with the scheme.

The changes, announced by the Minister for Social Protection, which take effect from Monday, 26 September mean that applicants no longer have to wait 78 days while drawing the dole before beginning their Job Bridge placements. Time spent on training, education and community employment schemes will not now prevent a person qualifying for an internship straight away.

The Department of Social Protection has said that Job Bridge applicants are required to be on the Live Register and in receipt of benefits, but it is no longer preventing applicants from starting an internship immediately upon completion of another course or scheme (qualifying courses and schemes detailed below).



Further Information
The qualifying courses and schemes are; the Back to Education Allowance, VTOS, FÁS/Fáilte Ireland Training Courses, Youthreach, FIT, Community Employment Schemes, TUS, the Rural Social Scheme, Back to Work Scheme, FÁS Job Initiative and Job Assist.


No polical bias intended.....Just thought I'd put info and source

Eoin

Thanks for that - thread moved to the main work/jobs forum.

Del007

Do you still have to be unemployed 3 of the last 6 months to get into this programme?

Pandora2

Del007 wrote: »

Do you still have to be unemployed 3 of the last 6 months to get into this programme?

Doesn't look like it but perhaps a call to SP/Deputy Harris's Office would provide a firm response:) Alternatively...www.welfare.ie should have additional info on this. Check a couple of sources........takes a while for these changes to filter down to frontline staff in SP.

Del007

I emailed the address on jobbridge.ie but surprise surprise I haven't heard anything back from them.

I've an interview on Friday with this programme so don't want to waste my time or the company's time

I'll call into the social welfare office see if they know any different

Pandora2

Faster to ring Deputy Harris, his staff have a Hotline to SW and would be obliged to verify the situation for you:D 01 6183000 & ask for Deputy Harris.:) Explain you saw Press Release & need clarification on this point urgently. They should be able to answer this, this morning!!

Rowley Birkin QC

What about those of us that are employed but want to get experience in a job that's advertised on Job Bridge because the employer is broke/tight?

Del007

Thank you for your e-mail. All relevant information is available on our website www.jobbridge.ie <http://www.jobbridge.ie/> guidelines, eligibility criteria, FAQs etc for your review.

In order to be eligible to participate in JobBridge - the National Internship Scheme an individual must be:

1. Currently in receipt of a live claim (Jobseekers Allowance/Jobseekers Benefit/Signing for Credits) on the Live Register
2. And have been in receipt of Jobseekers Benefit, Jobseekers Allowance or signing for Social Insurance Contribution Credits for a total of 3 months or more in the last 6 months.

Regards

JobBridge Team

Pandora2

That info seems to contradict the Press Release....and, as I said, this info very often takes time to filter down....would still query this with Harris or your local public rep;)

Dannyg90

so does this mean people who have finished college and want to get an internship for experience to get a ''real' job can get one right after recieving their degrees?

Pandora2

Well, you have definetly got to sign on first but, for me, the jury is still out as to whether a 3 month delay, after signing on, is necessary

donegal11

The press release only relates to people who where unemployed who wouldn't be disadvantaged doing fas course etc. In that when they finish the fas course they don't have to wait another 3months, as previously fas courses wouldn't count towards the qualifying period.

Pandora2

Donegal 11, "You may be right....but you may be wrong"..Billy Joel!!

Gonna make that call myself in the AM......let you know!!

Del007

donegal11 wrote: »

The press release only relates to people who where unemployed who wouldn't be disadvantaged doing fas course etc. In that when they finish the fas course they don't have to wait another 3months, as previously fas courses wouldn't count towards the qualifying period.

I called into Fas and that's exactly what they told me

Pandora2

Del007 wrote: »

I called into Fas and that's exactly what they told me

Did a bit of digging and you are correct...no harm checking though:D

Del007

I can see where they are coming from but how about people who've been unemployed say a month. Do they just take any job or wait 2 months on the dole to get an internship that they want?

floorpie

Correct me if i'm wrong here but would these measures not just increase the available pool of people who would be eligible to do an internship, thereby increasing the number of jobs that can be filled via the internship scheme? That is to say, will these measures not have a bad effect on non-internship jobs listings?


As opposed as all of the people who've been unemployed for a week might be, would it not make more sense to increase the required period of unemployment to, say, a year, decrease the number of people who can take up an internship, increase the likelihood that these outliers will gain employment, and then, if necessary, gradually bring the required unemployed period down? I mean, as it is, there's already too much competition for these internships, no?

donegal11

yes but when the waiting period was 6 months there was a poor uptake. If they reduced it any more then 3 months you could in effect have a situation where an employer could pick any candidate and tell them to sign on for a week and you could then hire them under job bridge and pay them a bit extra under the table to make up the difference.

Pandora2

floorpie wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong here but would these measures not just increase the available pool of people who would be eligible to do an internship, thereby increasing the number of jobs that can be filled via the internship scheme? That is to say, will these measures not have a bad effect on non-internship jobs listings?


As opposed as all of the people who've been unemployed for a week might be, would it not make more sense to increase the required period of unemployment to, say, a year, decrease the number of people who can take up an internship, increase the likelihood that these outliers will gain employment, and then, if necessary, gradually bring the required unemployed period down? I mean, as it is, there's already too much competition for these internships, no?

Yes, yes a thousand times YES!!! Thank You Floorpie :eek:

floorpie

donegal11 wrote: »

yes but when the waiting period was 6 months there was a poor uptake. If they reduced it any more then 3 months you could in effect have a situation where an employer could pick any candidate and tell them to sign on for a week and you could then hire them under job bridge and pay them a bit extra under the table to make up the difference.

I *refuse* to believe that the poor uptake is due to poor candidates or lack of interest amongst the unemployed.

And I hear what you're saying, less than 3 months *would* be disastrous, but if i'm reading it right, it now means that people who have just finished any of the following will now be effectively forced to sign on and plump for an internship:

Back to Education Allowance, VTOS, FÁS/Fáilte Ireland Training Courses, Youthreach, FIT, Community Employment Schemes, TUS, the Rural Social Scheme, Back to Work Scheme, FÁS Job Initiative and Job Assist.

So in effect, they're doing exactly that disastrous thing. I can't imagine that many employers, unless mandated by the rules of the scheme, will pay anybody out of their own pocket if they see any of the above on their cv? Despite at least one of them, BTEA, meaning potentially high levels of education? BTEA can fund a person through a degree and up to postgrad higher diploma, right? So i mean, *i must be reading this all wrong*, but this means that people coming out of third level education, having done a degree, higher diploma or postgrad diploma in education, via BTEA, will potentially be ushered into the dole system by employers? There's been posts on boards from people saying they're starting degrees in medicine via BTEA for god's sake, how is lowering the barrier of entry to free work going to help anything?

Another thing, i don't know WHYYYYy TUS is on there. I'm kind of getting agitated trying to type what i mean so apologies if this is a little rambling, but this is the enforced community work scheme, right? Unless i'm mistaken, it's the same scheme that i've been conscripted into; if you haven't heard about it, it's basically the paradigm that all the anti-unemployed-people people (i.e. people who say "boo unemployed people") have been creaming themselves over for the last year, "they're all sitting on their holes anyway, get them to pick up rubbish in the area".

This one: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/employment_support_schemes/tus.html

It's a scheme where you're compulsorily conscripted for 12 months, for 20 hours a week, for your normal dole rate + 20e, and if you want to look for real work, you explicitly *aren't* allowed to let it affect your important community work, eg "Repair of equipment for the Third World – for example, farm tools". Quote:"any such (activities outside of TUS program e.g. seeking employment) must not interfere with the Participant’s work on Tús or the times they are expected to work on Tús as this will be the Participant’s principal work/income"

Why was a scheme such as this, a *nothing* scheme, EVER interfering with internships or true employment? Why has it required changes to the rules of the JobBridge to account for such a stupid scheme?

I have a degree and (almost) two masters and am (obviously) looking for work, and my dole's going to get cut off soon unless i agree to spend 20 hours a week cleaning the community or whatever. Fine, i love my community, but this is *not* going to help the unemployment levels except in a roundabout way (that is to say, it feels to me like a forced emigration scheme). So to improve things, their solution is to reduce the barrier of entry, after this scheme, to 9 months of free labour?

So this means that a person who's eligible for TUS has to have been unemployed for more than a year. Then TUS conscripts them for a year (you have to do it if you want to keep eating and can't get a job). And now they're making it so that anybody with TUS mentioned in an interview has to, effectively, immediately go into slave labour for a private company for a year via the internship scheme. So unless i'm missing something, this change has the effect of forcing 2 extra years of dole onto people who've already been unemployed for more than a year, under the guise of some nebulous idea such as 'gaining experience'?

I'm trying my damned best here, but every day that i go onto the jobbridge site my heart sinks seeing the requirements for newly listed jobs, which would be in my employment area and would've been well paid jobs 2 years ago, get more and more demanding, to the point where after, i dunno, 22 years of education and 10 years of simultaneous employment, i'm not even qualified to do an internship. And their solution is to make everything worse.

I'm at the end of my tether

steve9859

floorpie wrote: »

I have a degree and (almost) two masters and am (obviously) looking for work, and my dole's going to get cut off soon unless i agree to spend 20 hours a week cleaning the community or whatever. Fine, i love my community, but this is *not* going to help the unemployment levels except in a roundabout way (that is to say, it feels to me like a forced emigration scheme). So to improve things, their solution is to reduce the barrier of entry, after this scheme, to 9 months of free labour?


I'm trying my damned best here, but every day that i go onto the jobbridge site my heart sinks seeing the requirements for newly listed jobs, which would be in my employment area and would've been well paid jobs 2 years ago, get more and more demanding, to the point where after, i dunno, 22 years of education and 10 years of simultaneous employment, i'm not even qualified to do an internship. And their solution is to make everything worse.

With a degree and 2 masters along with 10 years of experience, you are clearly employable. It's just there are no jobs in Ireland. Would you not go and look for work abroad?

I don't know whether you share the view of many people, which is "I shouldn't have to". But like you said, it isn't going to get better, and there is no reason to think that after a year unemployed that things will suddenly change for you. Would you not be pro-active and get out of here. It's a genuine question, and if I hit a nerve, I apologise. London is an hour flight away, and places like Bristol and Manchester are 40 minutes (assuming that you live in Dublin of course), so hardly count as 'emigration' in the true sense of the word. I spent a while unemployed and moved to London when it was clear that Ireland was just not going to work. Found very well paid work pretty quickly and am back in Dublin very regularly.

(Mod: I know it is off topic, but I just wanted to respond to floorpie's personal circumstances)

floorpie

steve9859 wrote: »

With a degree and 2 masters along with 10 years of experience, you are clearly employable. It's just there are no jobs in Ireland. Would you not go and look for work abroad?

I don't know whether you share the view of many people, which is "I shouldn't have to". But like you said, it isn't going to get better, and there is no reason to think that after a year unemployed that things will suddenly change for you. Would you not be pro-active and get out of here. It's a genuine question, and if I hit a nerve, I apologise. London is an hour flight away, and places like Bristol and Manchester are 40 minutes (assuming that you live in Dublin of course), so hardly count as 'emigration' in the true sense of the word. I spent a while unemployed and moved to London when it was clear that Ireland was just not going to work. Found very well paid work pretty quickly and am back in Dublin very regularly.

(Mod: I know it is off topic, but I just wanted to respond to floorpie's personal circumstances)

When i say '10 years experience', a large chunk of those years were internship style jobs, albeit well paid compared to industry jobs, and *far* better than what one would get in a jobbridge internship.

And you're totally right, that's the direction i'm starting to think in now, looking abroad. I *was* thinking that i shouldn't have to, if i kept trying here i'd get something (so i have been pro-active in that sense), but the situation here seems to get worse day by day.

What i'm trying to figure out now are the practicalities of finding specific work abroad, best places to look, how to interview etc. I'll save it for another thread but thanks for the advice, you're definitely right.

Cruicie

I have a problem at the moment. I finished my masters in a construction based discipline and am looking for work in that area. There is some work in the area but no employers will hire a graduate and pay them when they can hire a graduate for free through jobsbridge. I have resigned myself to that and accepted that I can only get experience in Ireland through the Jobsbridge scheme. The problem is... I took a job straight after college to pay the bills until something came up and now don't seem to be eligable to qualify for any of the Jobsbridge positions which I want. I'm desperately unhappy in the job i'm currenlty in. They are not going to let me go so I would have to quit. There won't be any graduate positions in the area until the jobsbridge scheme ends, I can't leave because I won't be eligeable for the jobsbridge for god know how long and can't survive finiancially if I have to wait for 3 months to be eligeable (and meanwhile, not be entitled to social welfare).

Is there ANYTHING I can do to to increase my eligeability or should I just sit and wait for a nervous breakdown to ensue in my existing job?

Rowley Birkin QC

Cruicie wrote: »

I have a problem at the moment. I finished my masters in a construction based discipline and am looking for work in that area. There is some work in the area but no employers will hire a graduate and pay them when they can hire a graduate for free through jobsbridge. I have resigned myself to that and accepted that I can only get experience in Ireland through the Jobsbridge scheme. The problem is... I took a job straight after college to pay the bills until something came up and now don't seem to be eligable to qualify for any of the Jobsbridge positions which I want. I'm desperately unhappy in the job i'm currenlty in. They are not going to let me go so I would have to quit. There won't be any graduate positions in the area until the jobsbridge scheme ends, I can't leave because I won't be eligeable for the jobsbridge for god know how long and can't survive finiancially if I have to wait for 3 months to be eligeable (and meanwhile, not be entitled to social welfare).

Is there ANYTHING I can do to to increase my eligeability or should I just sit and wait for a nervous breakdown to ensue in my existing job?

I hear you. I'm in literally exactly the same position.

donegal11

People leaving paying jobs for Jobs bridge , in such cases maybe increasing the qualifying period wouldn't be such a bad thing. The scheme wasn't set up for the full time employed who would like a career change. It was set up for people with no experience who want to break into the workforce and the long term unemployed. Qualified People who are leaving paying jobs for jobs bridge are going against the spirit of scheme and potentially taking jobs from other (deserving) candidates who the scheme was meant for.

@floorpie "my dole's going to get cut off soon unless i agree to spend 20 hours a week cleaning the community or whatever" I argee with everything you said, but did the SW ring you and say your doing TUS or else?:eek:

Rowley Birkin QC

donegal11 wrote: »

People leaving paying jobs for Jobs bridge , in such cases maybe increasing the qualifying period wouldn't be such a bad thing. The scheme wasn't set up for the full time employed who would like a career change. It was set up for people with no experience who want to break into the workforce and the long term unemployed. Qualified People who are leaving paying jobs for jobs bridge are going against the spirit of scheme and potentially taking jobs from other (deserving) candidates who the scheme was meant for.

Yes but consider this. I came out of college to find that jobs in my chosen professions weren't available, I trained in something else and took work in that field in order to pay back my financial commitments.

Where jobs did not previously exist companies are now willing to take on interns and not pay them rather than hire workers and pay them. This means that I cannot apply for work in my chosen profession, despite the fact that consultancies and public organisations clearly have work to be done, without quitting my current job and spending 6 months drawing the dole. It is insane.

Cruicie

People leaving paying jobs for Jobs bridge , in such cases maybe increasing the qualifying period wouldn't be such a bad thing. The scheme wasn't set up for the full time employed who would like a career change. It was set up for people with no experience who want to break into the workforce and the long term unemployed. Qualified People who are leaving paying jobs for jobs bridge are going against the spirit of scheme and potentially taking jobs from other (deserving) candidates who the scheme was meant for.

Just to clarify, I studied for 6 years to gain my qualification and paid 17,000 (which wasn't just lying around my bank account, thereby requiring a loan) which I justified to myself in the aim that it was an investment which would increase my skills and offer me an opportunity to get away from working in abusive, low paid jobs. So to summarize, 6 years versus 5 months in my existing role does not constitute a career change. It constitutes a Stop Gap!

Secondly, regarding your "potentially taking jobs from other (deserving) candidates who the scheme was meant for".

Am i not (derserving!) Which part makes me underversing? Is it my six years of study and 17,000 loan to pay for the course? The same loan that forced me into a job immedaitely after college? The same job which diqualifies me from the Jobsbridge scheme? The same scheme which prevents comapnies hiring graduates for the next forseeable year? The next year which is crucial to me if I am to break into the industry!

So donegal, thank you for your tuppence worth but frankly, I think its' overpriced at that!

Cruicie

Also Donegal, I notice your on the dole so why don't you take my job!? You're welcome to it!

Mr. Incognito

This is a load of utter nonsense.

The problem is thus.

It takes a number of MONTHS to process your claim to sign on. Hense why there is a lead in period. If it was to sign on and sign up it would show Social Welfare UNCivil Servants to be the generic bland wasters that they are.

Secondly it has effectively lowered the minimum wage for paid and unpaid jobs to zero.

For this to work the following needs to happen.

Stop centralising the initiative with Civil Servants. They are not qualified to do anything other than stick large objects into their ears and noses and complain about how we cut their pensions.

Allow the employers to recruit and then apply for rebates from social welfare. Not sandwich some clown department with their red tape to get in the middle and make a balls of it.

FAS needs to go. Close doors. Throw away the keys. Fire the useless lumps there. Give a lump sum to recruiters, yes, private COMPETANT professional recruiters that place people in paying jobs out of the public purse. This puts value for your money into the spend.

Police the employers that are recklessly exploiting these internship placements by requiring them to pay persons for a matched time after they have served their unpaid period- i.e 6 months free, 6 months paid. Also they should be audited to ensure they are not exploiting the system for cheap labout- in the case of companies they are required to file annual accounts so all one has to do is check the CRO and look under the heading "net profit"

This country is run by idiots lining the pockets of other lazy idiots.

floorpie

donegal11 wrote: »

@floorpie "my dole's going to get cut off soon unless i agree to spend 20 hours a week cleaning the community or whatever" I argee with everything you said, but did the SW ring you and say your doing TUS or else?:eek:

I got a fairly clear-cut letter. Summarizing what it said: you do not have to take part in this scheme but if you don't your payments may be cancelled, if you don't reply to this letter within 2 weeks your payments may be cancelled, etc. I'm guessing that with the new strictness being brought upon social welfare recipients that it's not just a threat, but i dunno!

Cruicie

Incognito, I agree with your judgement. Unfortunately, I can't see the government coming to any such conclusions without facing the wrath of trade unions holding them to some sort of finiancial ransom. As well as a variety of other self serving reasons.

Alas, neither does it resolve my prediciment. I need to figure out a way to gain experience as a graduate with at least form of pay to survive. And if I can't beat it, then I have to join it.

floorpie

Cruicie wrote: »

The same scheme which prevents comapnies hiring graduates for the next forseeable year?

You're after highlighting a major part of the issue.

It's not that you're not deserving, and you obviously aren't obliged to stay in a job you hate, but as much of a f*ck up as the scheme is now, it's that it'd be an absolute disaster if a person in your situation was able to get into one.

Anyway to try help you out, might there be a loophole where you quit your job, get the dole 6 weeks later, then join up for one the following for a short course, or are they all only available after a certain amount of time unemployed:

Back to Education Allowance, VTOS, FÁS/Fáilte Ireland Training Courses, Youthreach, FIT, Community Employment Schemes, TUS, the Rural Social Scheme, Back to Work Scheme, FÁS Job Initiative and Job Assist.

edit: not that i'm condoning gaming the system to the detriment of the country

floorpie

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

FAS needs to go. Close doors. Throw away the keys. Fire the useless lumps there. Give a lump sum to recruiters, yes, private COMPETANT professional recruiters that place people in paying jobs out of the public purse. This puts value for your money into the spend.

I've never thought of that...

I've had bad experiences with some (private) recruitment agencies. But i've also had a few experiences where they did come across as competent, as in the recruiters probably had degrees+ in the area they were recruiting for (maybe that's standard practice, i'm not sure). On the other hand, despite having a degree and masters (and half of another masters) in a computer sciencey area, FAS's big solution for me (i think it was FAS, it might have been my local employment office or whatever they're called) a few months ago was to do an ECDL course.

Eh so, what i'm wondering is, *are* there any public service recruiters who know what they're doing that help recruit unemployed people into private companies, or are the people that recommend ECDL's etc just inexperienced people that get lumped into the area of recruitment?

donegal11

Cruicie wrote: »

Just to clarify, I studied for 6 years to gain my qualification and paid 17,000 (which wasn't just lying around my bank account, thereby requiring a loan) which I justified to myself in the aim that it was an investment which would increase my skills and offer me an opportunity to get away from working in abusive, low paid jobs. So to summarize, 6 years versus 5 months in my existing role does not constitute a career change. It constitutes a Stop Gap!

Secondly, regarding your "potentially taking jobs from other (deserving) candidates who the scheme was meant for".

Am i not (derserving!) Which part makes me underversing? Is it my six years of study and 17,000 loan to pay for the course? The same loan that forced me into a job immedaitely after college? The same job which diqualifies me from the Jobsbridge scheme? The same scheme which prevents comapnies hiring graduates for the next forseeable year? The next year which is crucial to me if I am to break into the industry!

So donegal, thank you for your tuppence worth but frankly, I think its' overpriced at that!

What course costs 17000 grand? and 6 years?:eek: would you not get free fees?

If everyone did what you want the scheme would become a joke? but if you want to go on the dole for hope of a jobbridge internship knock yourself out. But remeber you might face a bit of competition from other candidates so be prepared for a long wait.

And the 17000 loan is a bit overplayed, if you got a 17000 loan recently you must be financial sound in the banks eyes(they aren't exactly giving money away) and the fact you would work for 188 euros for nine months means that it mustn't be that big a burden on you:pac:

Threadling

Cruicie wrote: »

I have a problem at the moment. I finished my masters in a construction based discipline and am looking for work in that area. There is some work in the area but no employers will hire a graduate and pay them when they can hire a graduate for free through jobsbridge. I have resigned myself to that and accepted that I can only get experience in Ireland through the Jobsbridge scheme. The problem is... I took a job straight after college to pay the bills until something came up and now don't seem to be eligable to qualify for any of the Jobsbridge positions which I want. I'm desperately unhappy in the job i'm currenlty in. They are not going to let me go so I would have to quit. There won't be any graduate positions in the area until the jobsbridge scheme ends, I can't leave because I won't be eligeable for the jobsbridge for god know how long and can't survive finiancially if I have to wait for 3 months to be eligeable (and meanwhile, not be entitled to social welfare).

Is there ANYTHING I can do to to increase my eligeability or should I just sit and wait for a nervous breakdown to ensue in my existing job?

You've hit on the major flaw in this jobbridge idea!!!! Which I expect is leading to a massive surge in the live register.
I'm in the same position (minus the loan). When I finished my degree I got some low paid work to facilitate moving and just generally pay my way (as ya do) because I'm capable of work and won't claim benefits. But apparently in this country your punished for that. I've always worked even through college but after the state paying for me to go to study for 4 years I think it was a waste of money if I end up working in the same job I've always done unable to say support a family and stay out of the welfare system in the future. I think the scheme should facilitate graduates in there chosen career to get on the ladder otherwise the whole free education system is a waste of time if you can't even get an internship at the end of it all. I'de do it for no pay for the experience and work part-time at night... but I won't starve for 9weeks... to qualify for a benefit I don't need... just to get a job I would do for free!

kadman

I dont know what gave anyone the idea that job bridge is designed to benefit them. Do the research and you will soon find out who is the beneficiary of these idiotic schemes, and its definitely not you.

Unfortunately highly qualified young ppeople like you, will be excluded from participation in this society, unless you are willing to work as serfs. To the betterment of the companies bottom line.

The government has set you up for export to other places. Instead of investing in efforts to enable you young people, to rectify , what old school thinking has done to this country. Its nothing short of a disgrace.:mad:

kadman

Threadling

donegal11 wrote: »

The press release only relates to people who where unemployed who wouldn't be disadvantaged doing fas course etc. In that when they finish the fas course they don't have to wait another 3months, as previously fas courses wouldn't count towards the qualifying period.

Also Donegal 11 you seem to think its ok for someone from a fas scheme to avail of Jobbridge straight away but not someone just finished a degree... What's that about? I assure you when I was working to put myself through college I lived on less than the dole...

donegal11

Threadling wrote: »

Also Donegal 11 you seem to think its ok for someone from a fas scheme to avail of Jobbridge straight away but not someone just finished a degree... What's that about? I assure you when I was working to put myself through college I lived on less than the dole...

The people that do a fas course are already unemployed ,the courses are relatively short 5-12 weeks and courses that are any longer have work experience incorporated into them, given that college courses last years I don't think it's a fair comparison. And it wasn't my opinion whether it was right or wrong I was just giving my interpretation of the new rule, to be honest I don't really care one way or another.