Mullingar next.

bath handle

The top brass were in Mullingar on Monday.Minister Penrose is jumping up and down about closure. What odds it will be closed by Christmas?

triskell

bath handle wrote: »

The top brass were in Mullingar on Monday.Minister Penrose is jumping up and down about closure. What odds it will be closed by Christmas?

I wouldn't be surprised, there 's been rumblings about it be closing for the last couple of years. but they seem to have escalated in last couple of months. but if anyone can block the closure penrose will.

wildfowler94

Bannon even though not much good couldn't stop the closure of Longford, so penrose is not going to fair much better over cuts, I have many friends based in Mullingar and most were convinced they would go before Longford, now there almost certain it will be them next?
heads your bets as to where there sent? Athlone? getting full? Curragh?
Heard rumours galway is going too?

WF

Jo King

How about Cavan? Would make a nice artillery barracks.

triskell

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Bannon even though not much good couldn't stop the closure of Longford, so penrose is not going to fair much better over cuts, I have many friends based in Mullingar and most were convinced they would go before Longford, now there almost certain it will be them next?
heads your bets as to where there sent? Athlone? getting full? Curragh?
Heard rumours galway is going too?

WF

I 'd say most will end up in Athlone, the feeling inside is its only a matter of time. i trained in mull id like to see the barracks before it's decomissioned

TouchingVirus

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Bannon even though not much good couldn't stop the closure of Longford, so penrose is not going to fair much better over cuts, I have many friends based in Mullingar and most were convinced they would go before Longford, now there almost certain it will be them next?
heads your bets as to where there sent? Athlone? getting full? Curragh?
Heard rumours galway is going too?

WF

Hedge your bets.

And I'm not sure, a good few of the Longford folk were sent to Mullingar, would be fairly shít to have them moved on again to Athlone or the Curragh

wildfowler94

Actually I believe Cavan was up for closure too,
Yeah was chatting a few and the general thought among them is Athlone,
with a serious possibility of Renmore to Athlone too?
the 4th cav from Longford where all sent too Athlone.
Ah sure be nice and cramped for us all!:rolleyes:

triskell

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Actually I believe Cavan was up for closure too,
Yeah was chatting a few and the general thought among them is Athlone,
with a serious possibility of Renmore to Athlone too?
the 4th cav from Longford where all sent too Athlone.
Ah sure be nice and cramped for us all!:rolleyes:

They would fit the mullingar in Athlone alright. they never fit renore in as well. sardines...springs to mind and a lot less duties..but then again there's the right way and the army way:rolleyes: As to cavan closing that's a possibility seeing as the dept of defence don't own the building, only lease it from justice

bath handle

If renmore closes, Finner beckons! Custume Barracks is going to have to get back the lands confiscated from it in the 1930s

triskell

bath handle wrote: »

If renmore closes, Finner beckons! Custume Barracks is going to have to get back the lands confiscated from it in the 1930s

Do they still do pay and admin out of renmore or has that been moved?
they would have to knock down that big church to get the land back, might not be a bad idea

Jo King

The Pay Section section in Renmore is in a building outside the barracks. They could easily close the barracks and transfer the troops without affecting the pay section.
There are a number of government owned buildings beside Custume Barracks, sharing the perimeter wall. Some at least could be easily absorbed into the barracks complex. There are two buildings used by the Garda for example. It is proposed to build a completely new station for the Garda, which could be located in an alternative site.
Another building houses Civil Servants from other government departments.
There is also a post office with a lot of ground owned by An Post. That could be easily relocated. There is a new sorting office at the N6 and the retail Post Office work can easily be carried out from one of the many vacant shop units nearby.

triskell

It's a while since i heard about the new police station, I thought that was dropped, although it's needed they are in a bottle neck at the old place, No money now so thats unlikely, but the other buildings old Social welfare office and the main post office are options. Would it not be easier to move Renmore to Finner, much bigger camp with a lot of space to build facilities.

Jo King

It will all be done on the cheap. They are unlikely to be able to sell any of the closed barracks for quite some time. The money saved by closing facilities will not be enough to pay for new buildings. Taking security costs and paying disturbance money, very little money will be realised by closing barracks. It would be easier to absorb Galway than Mullingar into Athlone. The battalion would be broken up and absorbed into the 6th and 28th. No new offices would be needed because the CO, 2Ic, sgt maj. etc would have their appointments dissolved entirely. The stores would increase in volume to hold extra kit and equipment. Very few live in any more so there would be little impact on sleeping accommodation.
The unit in Mullingar would come and have to be re-housed. They would need offices and stores for their own equipment.
The co-incidence is that part of Custume Barracks was originally built as an artillery barracks. That was the original purpose of the present day Officers Mess.

SIRREX

TouchingVirus wrote: »

a good few of the Longford folk were sent to Mullingar,

Only the BFW civvies went to Mullingar

Local-womanizer

Can't see them closing Finner with all the building to have just been completed there.

triskell

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Can't see them closing Finner with all the building to have just been completed there.[/QU who siad anything about finner closing?

Local-womanizer

triskell wrote: »

who siad anything about finner closing?

Ah! misread a post!

Milk & Honey

Having spent a lot of money is no guarantee of anything. The military hospital in Athlone was closed months after a new accommodation block for the nurses was built.
Finner won't be closed for lots of other reasons but having spent money is not one of them.

Fionn

too true, money means nothing when it comes to govermental/departmental stupidity!!

remember Clancy Bks anyone? :rolleyes:

the Bks down my way is on death row too methinks (Kickham)
shame really but there ya go!!

shellykbookey

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Actually I believe Cavan was up for closure too,
Yeah was chatting a few and the general thought among them is Athlone,
with a serious possibility of Renmore to Athlone too?
the 4th cav from Longford where all sent too Athlone.
Ah sure be nice and cramped for us all!:rolleyes:

I was at the meeting about Dun Ui Neill in Cavan being closed on Monday and it doesn't look good for any of the units on the list. The barracks in Cavan is the most modern and the most economical to run in the country and they want to close it to save money. They should be looking at merging some of the ones around Dublin instead of closing barracks around the country.

triskell

I see the papers and media are talking about mullingar town losing various amounts of money 6 million/ 8 million/ 10 million if Columb barracks closes.
Can somebody explain to me where they get these figures?
If they are relocated and they will still have there jobs and still living in or around Mull. where is the loss?
Some of the civies must be near retirement anyway
Other than the local suppliers of produce and sevices where is the loss.
Now don't get me wrong it's a huge social loss to Mull the closure of the barracks, as the army plays a huge part in town life, support the emergency services (bad weather last year)and involved in comunity groups and charity work.
I just don't get the figures.

Milk & Honey

I presume it is the estimated wages bill plus the pensions paid out to former members plus local contracts. Most members will commute initially but eventually the numbers commuting will dwindle. Some might take the opportunity to sell up and move. Legal expenses, auctioneers fees, stamp duty and survey will be covered. Anybody living in will most likely move. New appointees will go straight to the new location and won't put down roots. Even individuals who commute may well begin to support business in the new location. E.g. shopping in the new location before going home, having cars serviced in the new location, banking in the new location etc.
The immediate cash flow savings from a shut down will be small. The impact on the host town will initially be small but will increase over the years.

shellykbookey

A lot of soldiers with families will end up moving because with the commute they will be spending less time at home and if their partner works then that’s more money for childcare. Add the cost of extra fuel on top of that and those households will take a big hit financially. The barracks in Athlone (where a lot of people are supposed to end up) has feck all room for people so anyone not wanting to commute would have to rent somewhere there which is more money. As already stated, the knock on effects of this type of closure on a town is far reaching, supermarkets, local shops, garages, entertainment and even schools, if families move children leave schools and less students means the govt. can get rid of a teacher or two. All this kinda thing gradually brings an area down which makes it less appealing to companies looking to set up in the area, which can affect potential infrastructure development in the area, because what’s the point, etc. And apart from the loss of support in bad weather, having a barracks in a town makes it harder to take resources out of the area, just look at Monaghan hospital being lost after the barracks there closing.

Gooleybag

Christ ya make it sound like the end of the world. No ones making anybody leave Mullingar. If the soldiers based there like the place that much there's nothing stopping them commuting to Athlone it's only 52mins down the road. There's many a person would give they're left arm for a commute that short.

triskell

shellykbookey wrote: »

A lot of soldiers with families will end up moving because with the commute they will be spending less time at home and if their partner works then that’s more money for childcare. Add the cost of extra fuel on top of that and those households will take a big hit financially. The barracks in Athlone (where a lot of people are supposed to end up) has feck all room for people so anyone not wanting to commute would have to rent somewhere there which is more money. As already stated, the knock on effects of this type of closure on a town is far reaching, supermarkets, local shops, garages, entertainment and even schools, if families move children leave schools and less students means the govt. can get rid of a teacher or two. All this kinda thing gradually brings an area down which makes it less appealing to companies looking to set up in the area, which can affect potential infrastructure development in the area, because what’s the point, etc. And apart from the loss of support in bad weather, having a barracks in a town makes it harder to take resources out of the area, just look at Monaghan hospital being lost after the barracks there closing.

yeah I can see where you're comming from. But realisticly how many are going to sell up in this economic climate and move. Athlone if thats the new location is 30 miles each way from Mullingar not an excessive comute unlike those who comute to dublin from athlone and Mullingar (not talking about soliders)
Long term I can see a loss to the town.
The other side of it, as you siad is more fuel costs and probaly less wages , as there will probaly be a lot less barrack duties in Athlone

iceage

Kickham Barracks in Clonmel on the ropes as well by all accounts. Just what the Town needs.

triskell

iceage wrote: »

Kickham Barracks in Clonmel on the ropes as well by all accounts. Just what the Town needs.

anyone know what other barracks are on the list. mullingar .. cavan.. clonmel.
anywhere else?

Milk & Honey

It is probably a good economic climate to sell up and move. House prices in Athlone have come down a lot so a good house can be secured easily, provided the old house is saleable.
Commuting won't be that expensive initially. Cars will be shared. 5 individuals can take turns driving one day a week each if are all in the same car.
The time lost in commuting will be made up by having fewer duties.
Where one partner transfers to Athlone and the other remains working in Mullingar, unless the one working in Mullingar can get a job in Athlone, one or other is going to end up commuting.
It would be interesting to hear about the experience of the closure in Longford. Have many moved or retired or are long term commuters?

SIRREX

Milk & Honey wrote: »

It is probably a good economic climate to sell up and move. House prices in Athlone have come down a lot so a good house can be secured easily, provided the old house is saleable.
Commuting won't be that expensive initially. Cars will be shared. 5 individuals can take turns driving one day a week each if are all in the same car.
The time lost in commuting will be made up by having fewer duties.
Where one partner transfers to Athlone and the other remains working in Mullingar, unless the one working in Mullingar can get a job in Athlone, one or other is going to end up commuting.
It would be interesting to hear about the experience of the closure in Longford. Have many moved or retired or are long term commuters?

It's a great time to buy a house anywhere! The trouble is people have to sell their old houses first, also not a problem if you price it right, the problem is you will be selling it at a major loss if you bought it at anytime between 2000 and 2007. What bank is going to give you a mortgage if you still owe 150,000 on your old mortgage?

You have a limited grasp of the various duties of the Defence Forces if you think car pooling works, if your on a 0500 escort or coming off duty, going on exercise, or weekends, the DF is not a 9-5 job where you can travel with the other members of your shift. You'd be lucky if 2 days a week you were able to co-ordinate with a group to carpool.

As for longfords closure, it seems to be mostly commuting, with several retirements and transfers out of the unit from quite a few younger lads, who just moved closer to their family homes if they hadn't got around to settling down and buying their own home

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

goldie fish

Veles wrote: »

~what a great strategy that is closing barracks down,worked soooo well in the past didn't it lads!

It did actually. The Investment that the closure of Ballincollig and Fermoy allowed turned Collins Barracks cork from a crumbling derelict to a comfortable, well equipped barracks with room for everyone, and their equipment. Even the Food improved.

triskell

goldie fish wrote: »

It did actually. The Investment that the closure of Ballincollig and Fermoy allowed turned Collins Barracks cork from a crumbling derelict to a comfortable, well equipped barracks with room for everyone, and their equipment. Even the Food improved.

+1 on above. At the risk of getting flamed. why do we really need all these barracks around the country. Nearly all of them are left over from the brits and were garrison towns to keep control of the crowns property. we're not occupied any more so why are we wasting money with maintence and security of these relics I know i have slept in nearly all of them. why not close them down and have maybe 6 to 8 large centralised barracks/camps like most european countries. sell of the property and land keep some part of the old barracks open as a museum. We could then spend whats's saved on updating the existing force. it's a small country the puchase of helicopters would allow the movement of troops anywhere in the country with in 2 hours.

Constab2

triskell wrote: »

+1 on above. At the risk of getting flamed. why do we really need all these barracks around the country. Nearly all of them are left over from the brits and were garrison towns to keep control of the crowns property. we're not occupied any more so why are we wasting money with maintence and security of these relics I know i have slept in nearly all of them. why not close them down and have maybe 6 to 8 large centralised barracks/camps like most european countries. sell of the property and land keep some part of the old barracks open as a museum. We could then spend whats's saved on updating the existing force. it's a small country the puchase of helicopters would allow the movement of troops anywhere in the country with in 2 hours.
The most short sighted statement I have read in a long long time,a lot of the soldiers serving in these left overs from the brits have done so for over 30 years+ & created a small patch of this earth they view as home ,To arbitrarily make flippant statements as you have suggests a lot of immaturity on your part.
And remember history has a way of repeating itself,the conditions you now enjoy were achieved through the perseverance of the lads you are so readily about to write off,be careful what you wish for it might actually happen,,look at whats happening now & be under no illusion as soon as all the pre 94 contracts leave post 94 contracts will find out all to quickly what they signed for (it is already started)

triskell

Constab2 wrote: »

triskell wrote: »

+1 on above. At the risk of getting flamed. why do we really need all these barracks around the country. Nearly all of them are left over from the brits and were garrison towns to keep control of the crowns property. we're not occupied any more so why are we wasting money with maintence and security of these relics I know i have slept in nearly all of them. why not close them down and have maybe 6 to 8 large centralised barracks/camps like most european countries. sell of the property and land keep some part of the old barracks open as a museum. We could then spend whats's saved on updating the existing force. it's a small country the puchase of helicopters would allow the movement of troops anywhere in the country with in 2 hours.
The most short sighted statement I have read in a long long time,a lot of the soldiers serving in these left overs from the brits have done so for over 30 years+ & created a small patch of this earth they view as home ,To arbitrarily make flippant statements as you have suggests a lot of immaturity on your part.
And remember history has a way of repeating itself,the conditions you now enjoy were achieved through the perseverance of the lads you are so readily about to write off,be careful what you wish for it might actually happen,,look at whats happening now & be under no illusion as soon as all the pre 94 contracts leave post 94 contracts will find out all to quickly what they signed for (it is already started)

LOL first off I have 21 years done already so I guess that makes me one of pre 94 contracts. what are you on about lad? do you think this is Helmand province "with a little patch of earth they view as home" these are not some outposts somewhere in some occupied country, do you think we 're going to be called out to quell the the local revolt. These are mostly old barracks in poor condition in Ireland.where the lads spend most of their time on barrack duties, basicaly armed security guards in camo suits. thats not what most lads signed up for,that isn't soldiering. The lads in athlone are doing a lot less duties and are getting to do the stuff they thought they were going to do when they sighed up.
You don't really get it. you are taking my post as a personal insult, it isn't..this is not about disrepecting soliders or writing off anybody. the soliders are doing their job with no real ability to defend themselves against the cuts, pdffora hands are tied
This is about money which we don't have to pay for the upkeep of these barracks.
now you tell me which you would prefer pdf at full strength with some modern kit and centralised, or the pdf as we know it now, gradually been eroded through cuts and very little funding. They are public sector, all the other parts of the public sector have unions to stand by them, we don't. they have been savaged with cuts already and more comming. they are a very easy target. you siad it yourself just wait and see.
They are cutting the costs right a cross the board and we are an easy target

Poccington

Quite frankly, with the Government pretty much saying "It's barracks' or it's troop numbers, which do you want less of?" I'm gonna go with barracks everytime.

Nhead

Poccington wrote: »

Quite frankly, with the Government pretty much saying "It's barracks' or it's troop numbers, which do you want less of?" I'm gonna go with barracks everytime.

Once they don't leave the barracks rotting and unprotected like they do in Kildare town. They place is a major hazard but it is typical of DoD ineptitude and lack of forward thinking that they can't manage to look after what they own. Property management what a misnomer, they absolutely destroyed the Curragh Camp by knocking down buildings that should have been listed.

SIRREX

Nhead wrote: »

Once they don't leave the barracks rotting and unprotected like they do in Kildare town. They place is a major hazard but it is typical of DoD ineptitude and lack of forward thinking that they can't manage to look after what they own.

While i'm dead set against closures I would have to say your comment is highly uninformed. Kildare bks (Magee Bks) was handed over to the local authority who hand wanted to build on the site (affordable housing I believe).

Before this could happen there was a need for somewhere to house foriegn national immigrants so the grounds were filled with mobile homes, as apparently the buildings which were fine for us soldiers were not "fit for humans":rolleyes:

After they no longer required the bks for refugees the local authority was faced with an empty bks, and with no need for the housing they had wanted to build, or at least no wish to build them, the area was allowed go to wrack and ruin. Eventually they deciced they didn't want the bks anymore so they handed it back to the DoD last year along with all the social problems that had grown in it

Nhead

SIRREX wrote: »

While i'm dead set against closures I would have to say your comment is highly uninformed. Kildare bks (Magee Bks) was handed over to the local authority who hand wanted to build on the site (affordable housing I believe).

Before this could happen there was a need for somewhere to house foriegn national immigrants so the grounds were filled with mobile homes, as apparently the buildings which were fine for us soldiers were not "fit for humans":rolleyes:

After they no longer required the bks for refugees the local authority was faced with an empty bks, and with no need for the housing they had wanted to build, or at least no wish to build them, the area was allowed go to wrack and ruin. Eventually they deciced they didn't want the bks anymore so they handed it back to the DoD last year along with all the social problems that had grown in it

To be honest I don't see why it is highly uninformed.The DoD are over it now and they still don't have security on it. Did the DoD sell the barracks or did they let them use the barracks? The DoD, and in particular Property Management are always very quick to abandon any responsibilty they have in this regard. They never actually sold the barracks: http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2011-06-28.128.0 so they still had responsibilty over it.

SIRREX

Nhead wrote: »

To be honest I don't see why it is highly uninformed.The DoD are over it now and they still don't have security on it. Did the DoD sell the barracks or did they let them use the barracks? The DoD, and in particular Property Management are always very quick to abandon any responsibilty they have in this regard.

It was transferred to the control of Kildare County Council, but i don't think any cash was involved. It was never invisaged that they would give it back, especially at a time when funds were so short that securing it would be such a financial nightmare.

A Considerable amount was spent, according to the minister, on security fencing (i think he said 200,00) but it's a huge area with a very long perimiter. I presume it's being patrolled by civilian security but obviously more would need to be spent to keep it safe, money that is needed else where. I'm quite sure it's very low on the priority scale at the moment

Nhead

And just to add: the issue of barracks' isn't just a military issue but also a heritage one. As anyone that has seen what has happened to the Curragh Camp can attest, the DoD cocked up the place royally (of course civilians are to blame, they always are:P).

Nhead

SIRREX wrote: »

It was transferred to the control of Kildare County Council, but i don't think any cash was involved. It was never invisaged that they would give it back, especially at a time when funds were so short that securing it would be such a financial nightmare.

A Considerable amount was spent, according to the minister, on security fencing (i think he said 200,00) but it's a huge area with a very long perimiter. I presume it's being patrolled by civilian security but obviously more would need to be spent to keep it safe, money that is needed else where. I'm quite sure it's very low on the priority scale at the moment

The fencing is a joke i.e. there is hardly any and it isn't patrolled at all. There was a report on it on RTE the other night.

SIRREX

Nhead wrote: »

The fencing is a joke i.e. there is hardly any and it isn't patrolled at all. There was a report on it on RTE the other night.

Well, when your last on the list, and are only a problem that was handed off to the military, then the money and planning will go elsewhere first.
Personnally I think the army were daft to take it back on their books

Nhead

SIRREX wrote: »

Well, when your last on the list, and are only a problem that was handed off to the military, then the money and planning will go elsewhere first.
Personnally I think the army were daft to take it back on their books

So do I and most of the town. They just want something built there.

Donny5

SIRREX wrote: »

I presume it's being patrolled by civilian security but obviously more would need to be spent to keep it safe, money that is needed else where.

There is no manned security whatsoever at Magee, just a fence with more holes than a falling plate.

goldie fish

Nhead wrote: »

And just to add: the issue of barracks' isn't just a military issue but also a heritage one. As anyone that has seen what has happened to the Curragh Camp can attest, the DoD cocked up the place royally (of course civilians are to blame, they always are:P).

Is a barracks supposed to be a working military establishment or a museum of architecture? It can't be both.

xflyer

No, but it should be possible to preserve many of the most interesting buildings. Some of the barracks are virtual time capsules and of considerable historic interest. Long use by the army has protected them. I remember wandering around the old Officers mess in Clancy Barracks. There was evidence the ARW was using it for training, but for the most part it looked a bit like the British only marched out yesterday. There was a 'Ladies Powder Room'. The rest of the barracks was similar.

It seems criminal to flatten them.

goldie fish

xflyer wrote: »

No, but it should be possible to preserve many of the most interesting buildings. Some of the barracks are virtual time capsules and of considerable historic interest. Long use by the army has protected them. I remember wandering around the old Officers mess in Clancy Barracks. There was evidence the ARW was using it for training, but for the most part it looked a bit like the British only marched out yesterday. There was a 'Ladies Powder Room'. The rest of the barracks was similar.

It seems criminal to flatten them.

Best reason in the world to get the army out and hand it over to the National museum so.

iceage

Not hijacking...well maybe I am! Big demonstration in Clonmel Co. Tipp this Saturday in relation to the closure of Kickham barracks.

If any of you are at a loose end like.

http://www.nationalist.ie/news/local/huge_turnout_expected_for_clonmel_march_to_save_barracks_campaigners_also_meet_minister_shatter_this_week_1_3164624

alanmcqueen

I understand that an announcement on barrack closures will be made after the Presidential election on November 10. This was conveyed to groups who lobbied the Minister to retain barracks in their respective towns. Can anyone else confirm this?

bath handle

There was a mention in the Sunday paper that the DPP has been cleared to take over the former GHQ on Infirmary Road.

Poccington

alanmcqueen wrote: »

I understand that an announcement on barrack closures will be made after the Presidential election on November 10. This was conveyed to groups who lobbied the Minister to retain barracks in their respective towns. Can anyone else confirm this?

I haven't heard anything but surely an announcement has to come soon? Especially since it's taken as fact that they're going.