The South Great Georges Street (outbound) situation

thomasj

Is it really neccessary to have two bus stops far enough apart from each other. One is just past dunnes the other further down.

One has the electronic board, bus shelter and timetables. The other (83, 65, 65b) have a busstop pole with a timetable.

For example there are people around the kimmage area that can avail of the 9 or the 83, likewise the elderly only going locally.

Any thoughts? Surely with the removal of the 19 and the future withdrawal of the 16a there is room to merge the two busstops.

coylemj

Just because only one of the stops has a display doesn't mean that the other stop will never get one.

On the N11 (Stillorgan Road) inbound from White's Cross to Brewery Road there are three consecutive bus stops, all have displays and all serve the same routes - 46A, 75 and 145. I'd imagine if they can be so generous to the residents of Leopardstown then every bus stop in Sth. Gt. Georges St. will eventually get a display though I can't understand the logic in the way they are being rolled out, clearly the middle one of those displays on the N11 could have been pushed down the queue in favour of more displays in the city centre.

The reason for spacing out the stops is to avoid congestion when multiple buses arrive at the same time, that's why there are so many stops in Nassau St.

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

Is it really neccessary to have two bus stops far enough apart from each other. One is just past dunnes the other further down.

One has the electronic board, bus shelter and timetables. The other (83, 65, 65b) have a busstop pole with a timetable.

For example there are people around the kimmage area that can avail of the 9 or the 83, likewise the elderly only going locally.

Any thoughts? Surely with the removal of the 19 and the future withdrawal of the 16a there is room to merge the two busstops.

The withdrawal of the 16a will not see a reduction in bus numbers as they will merely all become 16s.

Victor

lxflyer wrote: »

The withdrawal of the 16a will not see a reduction in bus numbers as they will merely all become 16s.

Sure, but hopefully the spacing will be better, especially when AVLS comes online.

I can get the 16/a or 83 and having them at different stops is a nuisance.

LXFlyer

Victor wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

The withdrawal of the 16a will not see a reduction in bus numbers as they will merely all become 16s.

Sure, but hopefully the spacing will be better, especially when AVLS comes online.

I can get the 16/a or 83 and having them at different stops is a nuisance.

AVLC is fully operational. The point I was making is that the volume of buses will not be dropping very much - that's the reason for the separate stops. Buses for the SCR have one stop and Rathmines the other.

The Skulls

I think people should be more concerned about the fact that georges St turns into a semi stationary taxi rank most nights, AVL is great except when it's made useless by unacceptable traffic congestion at night. How can buses remain on time going through georges St?

Rant over.

Andrew33

The Skulls wrote: »

I think people should be more concerned about the fact that georges St turns into a semi stationary taxi rank most nights,

Rant over.

You can add Dame st, Aungier st, Wexford st, O' Connell st to that list, the whole city centre within a 2km radius of Dame st becomes one big taxi rank at night and who's fault is that?
It's great for people now, they can pick any taxi they want (and then sit for 15mins in traffic before they start heading towards home).
Great job Kathleen, pay yourself a large bonus for a job well done.

AngryLips

This has often annoyed me about city centre bus stops but there's no getting away from the fact that to rationalise the number of bus stops will only lead to congestion and longer dwell times at each stop.

There is an argument for having all busses going in the one outbound direction serve the same stop but there is the counter argument that this approach would restrict interchangability because users looking to connection onto a different service in another direction will be forced to change stops in order to do so. I don't really have an opinion on it, all I can say is that I've been caught out by both inconveniences.

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

Sure, but hopefully the spacing will be better, especially when AVLS comes online.

I can get the 16/a or 83 and having them at different stops is a nuisance.

Those stops have to cater for the 9, 16/A, 65/B, 68/A 122 and 68A as well and the space for additional space is limited. There was a stop outside Dunnes but it was removed some years ago. AFAIK it went not too long after Dunnes was opened; perhaps they needed it as a loading bay yet to date it has never marked off as such by our city fathers.

A few years ago, the 16, 19s 121, 122 and 123 all stopped at Clery's at adjacent stops. The 19's were moved to a stop at the cinema, miles away from the 122 and 123, whose routes served a lot of the same skulls (Thanks SL for that phrase ) so you couldn't even take a dash to them stops, Victor

LXFlyer

I would expect that when the Network Direct changes are fully implemented that the opportunity will be taken to reorganise stops in a more rational manner.

AlekSmart

coylemj wrote: »

The reason for spacing out the stops is to avoid congestion when multiple buses arrive at the same time, that's why there are so many stops in Nassau St.

Much of the ethos behind Bus Stop placement is historical,and with very little basis in moder Public Transport User patterns.

Nassau St is one clear case in point.

Chronically and dangerously overcrowded with Bus Stops it remains as it is only until a serious accident when,no doubt,the opportunity will be grasped for some simple tweaking.

The last proposal from Dublin Bus was to move the busy Stephens Green Bound routes,such as 11,14,15,25,37/38/39A/46A to the bottom of Kildare Street which would leave the Merrion Square-Rock Road 4,7,13,47,66 to serve NassaU St.

It was shot-down I think,because it deprived passengers of interconection opportunities,even though,for most route combinations, such opportunities already existed earlier in the City Centre.

Nassau St is doubly problematic as the City Council steadfastly refuses clings to its 20 Pay and Display Car Park spaces,the removal of which would transform the currently fraught Bus journey through and across the street.

coylemj

AlekSmart wrote: »

The last proposal from Dublin Bus was to move the busy Stephens Green Bound routes,such as 11,14,15,25,37/38/39A/46A to the bottom of Kildare Street which would leave the Merrion Square-Rock Road 4,7,13,47,66 to serve NassaU St.

It was shot-down I think,because it deprived passengers of interconection opportunities,even though,for most route combinations, such opportunities already existed earlier in the City Centre.

I suspect it was shot down because putting a load of bus stops at the bottom of Kildare St. would be a recipe for chaos. Every time a bus went to pull out it would completely block the street, unlike at the top of the street where the road is wide enough for the bus stop and two lanes of traffic meaning a bus can pull out without blocking the entire street.

For a lot of routes there is already a long distance between the first and second stops south of the river, in the main this is caused by the lack of suitable points for bus stops between D'Olier St. and Kildare St. The 46A for example has a stop outside the Spar in D'Olier St. which is very near O'Connell Bridge, the next stop is the far side of Trinity in Nassau St. which is quite a distance. Moving it to Kildare St. would make matters worse and wouldn't make any sense because there's already a 46A stop outside the Dept of Ag. at the top of the street.

LXFlyer

I'd have to agree on Nassau Street.

It's the only place that all the bus routes going along that street stop together, as previously some stop on Grafton Street, some on College Street, and others on D'Olier Street. It makes changing buses much easier.

As for crazily retained parking spaces - what about the 9 nose to kerb spaces on St Stephen's Green North on the Green Side - utterly crazy.

Losty Dublin

lxflyer wrote: »

I'd have to agree on Nassau Street.

It's the only place that all the bus routes going along that street stop together, as previously some stop on Grafton Street, some on College Street, and others on D'Olier Street. It makes changing buses much easier.

As for crazily retained parking spaces - what about the 9 nose to kerb spaces on St Stephen's Green North on the Green Side - utterly crazy.

Agreed; the car spaces on the Green are madness in an area that needs additional road space for bus stops, extension to either the horse and carriage or taxi ranks or all three.

In relation to Nassau Street, one of the issues is that there are too many routes for the space available and until such time as all city bus stops are reviewed and planned out in a structured manner there is little that can be done to help it all. A Lower Kildare St stop is the only short term step to possibly relieve some of it provided it's used for city terminating routes to try and minimise hop off passengers looking to change buses.

All in all a big ask.

AlekSmart

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Agreed; the car spaces on the Green are madness in an area that needs additional road space for bus stops, extension to either the horse and carriage or taxi ranks or all three.

A Lower Kildare St stop is the only short term step to possibly relieve some of it provided it's used for city terminating routes to try and minimise hop off passengers looking to change buses.

All in all a big ask.

The Nose to Kerb spaces on the Green are about to go.

The next few weeks will see a revamp of the situation after some hardening of attitudes by Bus Drivers reps and associated complaints from intending passengers.

Essentially,the car spaces are being swapped with the existing Bus Bays and a few extra Taxi spaces included for good measure.

The Kildare St stops did indeed have a trial run during a Road Works phase some time back,and guess what....it went quite smoothly..mind you it was only the 10,11 and 46A that moved to the front of the General Practioners College...;)

LXFlyer

That's great news Alek - they should have gone years ago. They are utterly ludicrous and in my opinion a significant safety hazard.

Losty Dublin

Speaking of buses and the Green, I have noticed signs referring to a forthcoming bus lane. Perhaps these spaces are being taken up in readiness for it.

Victor

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Speaking of buses and the Green, I have noticed signs referring to a forthcoming bus lane. Perhaps these spaces are being taken up in readiness for it.

Proposal to allow bus southbound on SSG East to overtake other buses. At the moment Ranelagh/Rathmines buses can delay Donnybrook-bound buses while waiting for the traffic lights.

LXFlyer

Obviously this is finally taking place.

LXFlyer

Further to Alek's posts above, the nose to kerb parking spaces have indeed been removed but only to reappear about 50 yards further along St Stephen's Green North in the middle of the bus stops.

This is utter madness of the highest order and just smacks of DCC not being prepared to give up the parking revenue from 9 spaces.

It is still dangerous and I hope that DB drivers (and indeed their private tour bus cousins) will not be letting this lie.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

This is utter madness of the highest order and just smacks of DCC not being prepared to give up the parking revenue from 9 spaces.

If DB was owned and run by DCC or the DRA, you wouldn't see this happening. While DCC might want a better bus system in principle, they don't have any financial interest in making it work which is why 9 parking spaces win out

bk

This is why Dublin needs an elected Mayor with real powers like London.

coylemj

Victor wrote: »

Proposal to allow bus southbound on SSG East to overtake other buses. At the moment Ranelagh/Rathmines buses can delay Donnybrook-bound buses while waiting for the traffic lights.

Bikes also cause delays for the 46A and other buses trying to turn left into Leeson St. from the SE corner of SSG. Mixing straight ahead and left-turning traffic in a single lane where there is a filter light always cause hassle.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Further to Alek's posts above, the nose to kerb parking spaces have indeed been removed but only to reappear about 50 yards further along St Stephen's Green North in the middle of the bus stops.

This is utter madness of the highest order and just smacks of DCC not being prepared to give up the parking revenue from 9 spaces.

It is still dangerous and I hope that DB drivers (and indeed their private tour bus cousins) will not be letting this lie.

I almost fainted when I came upon this tomfoolery....As far as I'm concerned it merits the dismissal of the City Manager for downright disinterest and promoting dubious safety practice.

Is this Knowledge Based Administrative cabal incapable of looking at an obviously dangerous situation and addressing it without actually making the fruppin thing worse ?

Or is there some incredibly secret lucrative need to retain thse particular dangerous spaces over and above those elsewhere in Dublin City..?

No point in getting elevated I suppose,all this stuint does is confirm every long held conviction I've ever had in relation to Dublin City Council's senior engineering and planning staff.

I'm sure there's an emerging economy someplace that needs these chancers cos we've gotten full value from them !

:mad: :mad: :mad:

AlekSmart

coylemj wrote: »

Bikes also cause delays for the 46A and other buses trying to turn left into Leeson St. from the SE corner of SSG. Mixing straight ahead and left-turning traffic in a single lane where there is a filter light always cause hassle.

It's worth noting here that this particular stretch of Contra-Flow Bus Lane specifically excludes Cycles...check out the statutory signage.

I have on a few rare occasions been present when the odd interested Garda advised Cyclists of the need to look at the relevant signage before attempting to rip the gizzard out of a Busdriver for being in a Bus-Only lane.....:)

LXFlyer

Actually it's not as bad as I feared as the two normal service stops are now completely separated from the tour bus stops by these parking spaces, which should make serving those normal stops much easier as the tour buses will be elsewhere.

However, the retention of the parking spaces (it's now 11) is still bordering on ridiculous. Another stop could have been included there, either removing the stop from the southern end of Dawson Street or providing a stop for the 25/a/b, 37, 38/a/b and 39/a.

Dub13

Some of the stops in the city are way to close,take the 16 northbound stop on collage st outside starbucks and then another one just around the corner on westmorland st.

LXFlyer

Dub13 wrote: »

Some of the stops in the city are way to close,take the 16 northbound stop on collage st outside starbucks and then another one just around the corner on westmorland st.

I imagine when the Network Direct changes are fully implemented a full review of city centre bus stops will be carried out.

thomasj

Dub13 wrote: »

Some of the stops in the city are way to close,take the 16 northbound stop on collage st outside starbucks and then another one just around the corner on westmorland st.

I have to agree when you see some stops such as the 83/9/16 stops at college green and then westmoreland street and you see buses such as the 14, 128 and 37/39/a/70 at Suffolk street then at the bottom of Aston quay.

Speaking of the 14 and 128, the two stops should be together. Its mad that both are so far apart on Eden quay but I presume that once the changes to the 128(15), 42 and 43 happen and they move to Eden quay they will stop in the same area.