New Road Tax And Old Road Tax.

200motels

It has probably been brought up here before. Would people think it's unfair that the people who can afford cars from 2008 pay the new road tax and people who can't afford cars after 2008 pay the old tax system. I think the system is wrong. To me it has penalised the people who can't afford to change there car and benefits the people who can.

Dartz

200motels wrote: »

It has probably been brought up here before. Would people think it's unfair that the people who can afford cars from 2008 pay the new road tax and people who can't afford cars after 2008 pay the old tax system. I think the system is wrong. To me it has penalised the people who can't afford to change there car and benefits the people who can.

It's typical of the capitalist system. It forces the poor to get poorer, while making breaks for the wealthy. /warble ;P

Unless you want a V8 Jag.... those are much cheaper to tax under the old system.

Anan1

200motels wrote: »

It has probably been brought up here before. Would people think it's unfair that the people who can afford cars from 2008 pay the new road tax and people who can't afford cars after 2008 pay the old tax system. I think the system is wrong. To me it has penalised the people who can't afford to change there car and benefits the people who can.

My car is €935 to tax, it'd be €2100 under the new system.

Riskymove

Anan1 wrote: »

My car is €935 to tax, it'd be €2100 under the new system.

+1 swings and roundabouts

I pay €630 under the new system and it would be €610 on the old

Atlantic Dawn

Mine is €1050 new system but only €551, old system all the way for me and I'd say 80% or more of pre 2008 cars are better on the older system.

Anan1

Sheeple tend to assume that 2007 cars would be the same price to tax as the latest 2011 EDed DPFed stop-started model were it not for the terrible new rules - in most cases, this is a nonsense. My mother has a 2007 BMW 320d auto - thing puts out 179g/km, which means there'd be little to nothing in it in the tax.

Riskymove

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I'd say 80% or more of pre 2008 cars are better on the older system.

a lot of higher CC petrols certainly

a 2l is €614 on the old system and from class E on the new system would be more

diesel a very different story I'd say

Anan1

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well when I worked it out it would be a 1/3 of what I pay now if it was on the new system. Same engine,same co2 output but its 7 years older so its only fair I pay a heap more as a newer model :pac:

And was this iniquitous tax burden reflected in the purchase price?;)

200motels

Anan1 wrote: »

My car is 935 to tax, it'd be 2100 under the new system.

Well happy days for you, I didn't realise that the old system had any benefits. I should of researched it. It makes my point mute.

Berty

When you change and try improve something there will always be people who will feel disenfranchised.

When Stamp Duty was imposed and VRT was imposed it was the same thing for a while.

2008 cars, attracting lower TAX bands, will not always be the same price as the years pass. Patience is a virtue.

si_guru

Not to mention the €1000s in VRT and VAT paid by these people who buy these new "cheap to tax" cars... :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

200motels wrote: »

It has probably been brought up here before. Would people think it's unfair that the people who can afford cars from 2008 pay the new road tax and people who can't afford cars after 2008 pay the old tax system. I think the system is wrong. To me it has penalised the people who can't afford to change there car and benefits the people who can.

Wasn't the whole idea behind the change driven by a green agenda - to encourage folk use newer lower C02 cars?

So your choices are:

1/. Stay as you are. Keep paying what you were paying.

2/. Upgrade at a cost and get lower annual motor tax.

Seems fair enough.

SeaFields

Is there a reason it couldn't be based on your NCT results for cars before 2008?

The CO2 is measured in those and the results of your NCT measurement would put you into the corresponding tax band for the next two years until the next test.

Would this type of system work?

Henry Ford III

SeaFields wrote: »

Is there a reason it couldn't be based on your NCT results for cars before 2008?

The CO2 is measured in those and the results of your NCT measurement would put you into the corresponding tax band for the next two years until the next test.

Would this type of system work?

The new system and it's introduction was supposed to be revenue neutral.

So again you either carried on as was and paid higher annual road tax, or paid a lot of new vat and vrt and qualified for the lower (for C02 efficient cars) new rates.

You can't have it both ways.

Guy:Incognito

Why are people who could afford a new car in 07 considered poor but anyone who could afford one in 08 is now considered some new class of oligarch?

It's quite funny when people draw a line to suit themselves.

Motor tax is what it is, the system was changed, its never goign to suit everyone. If it was retroactivley applied to everyone there would be thousands of peopel suddenly hit mith much higher motor tax bills.

R.O.R

SeaFields wrote: »

Is there a reason it couldn't be based on your NCT results for cars before 2008?

The CO2 is measured in those and the results of your NCT measurement would put you into the corresponding tax band for the next two years until the next test.

Would this type of system work?

No, because the CO2 emissions for Road Tax, and the CO2 emissions taken at an NCT are completely different things.

savagecabbages

SeaFields wrote: »

Is there a reason it couldn't be based on your NCT results for cars before 2008?

The CO2 is measured in those and the results of your NCT measurement would put you into the corresponding tax band for the next two years until the next test.

Would this type of system work?

Yes. AFAIK thats what they do in Germany.

Max Power1

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why are people who could afford a new car in 07 considered poor but anyone who could afford one in 08 is now considered some new class of oligarch?

It's quite funny when people draw a line to suit themselves.

Motor tax is what it is, the system was changed, its never goign to suit everyone. If it was retroactivley applied to everyone there would be thousands of peopel suddenly hit mith much higher motor tax bills.

The line was drawn by the government of the day

Eric Cartman

if you drive a car with a medium to large sized engine (2.5 or above) then the old system is most likely better for you

if you drive a car with a small engine (under 2.5) then the new system is probably more helpful to you ,

the only thing the tax system has really done is drive down the price of 2nd hand cars (particularly lovely luxury v6/8/12 engined luxobarges) so even if you cant afford a new car, pre 2008 motoring is cheaper due to the price of the cars going down.

id much rather a late 90s v12 luxobarge taxed for 1566 rather than 156 a year to tax some eco concerned white-goods car with no performance

Del2005

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Wasn't the whole idea behind the change driven by a green agenda - to encourage folk use newer lower C02 cars?

So your choices are:

1/. Stay as you are. Keep paying what you were paying.

2/. Upgrade at a cost and get lower annual motor tax.

Seems fair enough.

Something that was brought in by the "green" agenda should never encourage people to replace functioning cars with new cars. Even if the car was putting out high CO2 it would still be greener then building a new one and destroying it

R.O.R wrote: »

No, because the CO2 emissions for Road Tax, and the CO2 emissions taken at an NCT are completely different things.

The CO2 emissions for VRT/Motor Tax are made up by the manufactures, they run the cars on near zero resistance rolling roads with no wind, while the NCT is what the car actually puts out.

Also there's nothing wrong with someone buying a low CO2 car, the only way to do this is starve it of fuel, and chipping it to produce more power, which equals more CO2, but they still pay the low CO2 rate.

Guy:Incognito

Max Power1 wrote: »

The line was drawn by the government of the day

No, the "everyone that bought cars before 01/01/08 are poor, everyone who bought after that are rich "line

pred racer

R.O.R wrote: »

No, because the CO2 emissions for Road Tax, and the CO2 emissions taken at an NCT are completely different things.

Can you expand on this? Just curious.

Anan1

pred racer wrote: »

Can you expand on this? Just curious.

Measurements taken at an NCT centre are actual readings for that particular car, whereas the figures used for tax are based on a brand new control car completing a set course. Just to further complicate matters, NCTS measure CO, not CO2.:)

pred racer

Cheers.

slimjimmc

200motels wrote: »

It has probably been brought up here before. Would people think it's unfair that the people who can afford cars from 2008 pay the new road tax and people who can't afford cars after 2008 pay the old tax system. I think the system is wrong. To me it has penalised the people who can't afford to change there car and benefits the people who can.

It doesn't penalise anyone with a pre-2008 car, the CC motor tax rate didn't suddenly jump massively, or anything. People with older cars just kept on paying the same as they would (with the normal annual increase of course) if the new bands never existed so nothing has really changed for them. In fact the only people who can rightfully claim to be penalised are those who bought high emission cars after the change.

I prefer not to look at things through victim's goggles and see the positives, like breathing in less emissions and the drop in price of 2006/2007 cars because people hate paying higher motor tax.

galwaytt

Eric Cartman wrote: »

id much rather a late 90s v12 luxobarge taxed for 1566 rather than 156 a year to tax some eco concerned white-goods car with no performance

that's ok until you meet a luxobarge on €156 a year tax (or similar). Then it really pisses me off.

woodoo

Its very unfair. Another attack on poorer drivers is making 10 year old cars do the NCT every year.

I have contacted a few politicians to let them know how i feel about both of these issues. I wish more people would do the same. They are the only people with the power to change it.

Eoin

slimjimmc wrote:

In fact the only people who can rightfully claim to be penalised are those who bought high emission cars after the change.

There might not be much in the difference, but i think someone driving something like a 2007 1.9 Golf might feel aggrieved to be paying twice the tax than someone with the exact model on a 2008 plate*. Might only be 300 a year difference, but I'd understand why they feel pissed off!

*Yes, I know that there is a difference in some cars' emissions with all the technology, but not all of them.

Bearcat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if you drive a car with a medium to large sized engine (2.5 or above) then the old system is most likely better for you

if you drive a car with a small engine (under 2.5) then the new system is probably more helpful to you ,

the only thing the tax system has really done is drive down the price of 2nd hand cars (particularly lovely luxury v6/8/12 engined luxobarges) so even if you cant afford a new car, pre 2008 motoring is cheaper due to the price of the cars going down.

id much rather a late 90s v12 luxobarge taxed for 1566 rather than 156 a year to tax some eco concerned white-goods car with no performance

Couldn't agree more...further in 10 yrs time the 2nd hand car market will be awash with 520ds and the like......bagging yourself a luxobarge will be something of a bygone era.

galwaytt

Eoin wrote: »

There might not be much in the difference, but i think someone driving something like a 2007 1.9 Golf might feel aggrieved to be paying twice the tax than someone with the exact model on a 2008 plate*. Might only be 300 a year difference, but I'd understand why they feel pissed off!

*Yes, I know that there is a difference in some cars' emissions with all the technology, but not all of them.

"only" €300? Are you kidding me or something ? My 06 car's tax is one such caught in that trap - 08's are far cheaper to tax and, my car is worthless used, because of it.

€300 is big amount of tax.

€300 is the headline figure - the actual cost of the tax is the extra 12k in depreciation that was put on my car overnight.

Eric Cartman

galwaytt wrote: »

that's ok until you meet a luxobarge on €156 a year tax (or similar). Then it really pisses me off.

if there ever exists a >5 litre v12 luxobarge that nets 156 in tax then ill eat a hat

Eoin

galwaytt wrote: »

"only" €300? Are you kidding me or something ? My 06 car's tax is one such caught in that trap - 08's are far cheaper to tax and, my car is worthless used, because of it.

€300 is big amount of tax.

€300 is the headline figure - the actual cost of the tax is the extra 12k in depreciation that was put on my car overnight.

I didn't mean to be flippant about the amount; I just meant that it's not that much in comparison to the annual cost of running a car. Especially if people will pay that many thousands extra a year to get a newer one that will save them the 300 a year.

Voodoomelon

slimjimmc wrote: »

It doesn't penalise anyone with a pre-2008 car, the CC motor tax rate didn't suddenly jump massively, or anything. People with older cars just kept on paying the same as they would (with the normal annual increase of course) if the new bands never existed so nothing has really changed for them. In fact the only people who can rightfully claim to be penalised are those who bought high emission cars after the change.

I prefer not to look at things through victim's goggles and see the positives, like breathing in less emissions and the drop in price of 2006/2007 cars because people hate paying higher motor tax.

Yes, i'm sure producing 100g less of C02 per kilometer is highly noticeable to the human lung. No doubt you've ignored the much more harmful toxins that are being produced by the 9 out of 10 new diesel cars on the road that the government have pushed people into buying.

You are correct that people with pre 2008 are not being directly penalised by the tax rates as they were present before the new system, however they are subsidising this ridiculous notion that post 2008 cars are super green and environmentally friendly, when in fact if you look at the emissions figures there is little between 2000-2008 cars and new ones. IE, older cars that produce maybe 25% more C02 than newer one are for some reason paying 100s of percent more for motor tax.

This irregularity is even more pronounced the larger the older engine. Yes the big difference is the incentive to switch as such, but only to force the public to spend more money on cars, and hence VRT, duty and VAT, and not because anyone cares about the environment.

The reason this annoys me so much is because the whole system is based around C02, which has frig all to do with why the system was introduced in the first place.

Gleisweiler

I pay €446, but I had my car in the garage last week and noticed a similar model with a tax of €158. When I enquired why I pay so much, I was told that it is because mine is an automatic. I don't know of any country where such charges apply for automatics. The cost of tax for my car in the UK is £126, exactly the same as a manual version. Why?

Eoin

The only thing I can think of is that the automatic version is considerably less fuel efficient, and you are indirectly paying more tax because it's an auto. Or maybe the person on the garage was mistaken, or the car in the garage had a different engine.

si_guru

Gleisweiler wrote: »

I pay €446, but I had my car in the garage last week and noticed a similar model with a tax of €158. When I enquired why I pay so much, I was told that it is because mine is an automatic. I don't know of any country where such charges apply for automatics. The cost of tax for my car in the UK is £126, exactly the same as a manual version. Why?

What is the CO2 of your car? It's printed on the tax disc.

Gleisweiler

The CO2 is 159. The car I saw was new and in a showroom, in my previous email I said it was similar but it was exactly the same as mine except it had a manual gearbox. The speci on the window stated that the tax was €156.

si_guru

Gleisweiler wrote: »

The CO2 is 159. The car I saw was new and in a showroom, in my previous email I said it was similar but it was exactly the same as mine except it had a manual gearbox. The speci on the window stated that the tax was €156.

So your auto is band D and the manual is band B - seems reasonable. The only "autos" I know with the same or lower tax are VW DSG or Citroen EGS.

In the UK the car tax would be €165 in band G - the manual €95 or €115.. but that is another country right?

Fuel is cheaper here.

bbability

The government should be doing more to allow people to change to the new system if your vehicle is pre 2008. It's not rocket science, allow people to have the option to change to the new CO2 system after the vehicle passes NCT. Maybe if they made that change more people would tax their cars!

The amount of cars on the road with no Tax or NCT certs and the lack of ANPR around the country.

Eoin

Yeah, it should be an opt-in system, but no doubt we'd be stung in another way to make up any difference.