RWC Imports and Exports!

Digifriendly

Saw this article about players not born in country they're representing at RWC 2011. Thought others might find it interesting.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Born-here-to-play-there-RWC-2011-squads-chocker-with-Kiwis/tabid/1534/articleID/224687/Default.aspx

tolosenc

Some of those labelled as "imports" are bollox.

ROG, Heaslip, Dusautoir, Ouedraogo, Moore, Shaw, MacKenzie, Barkley, Jackson, Morrison, and all the Welsh guys bar Faletau are hardly blow-ins to their respective countries.

WeeBushy

Very interesting.

What strikes me is that for all the talk of New Zealand poaching players from the Pacific Islands, they only have 4 players born outside of NZ, and the Pacific Island nations have imported a combined 29 players. Samoa have 15 all born in New Zealand.

Digifriendly

tolosenc wrote: »

Some of those labelled as "imports" are bollox.

ROG, Heaslip, Dusautoir, Ouedraogo, Moore, Shaw, MacKenzie, Barkley, Jackson, Morrison, and all the Welsh guys bar Faletau are hardly blow-ins to their respective countries.

Think it's just making the point about those born outside the country they're playing for. Probably easier to compile this list than one with those who have been resident in their adopted country for a certain number of years.

tolosenc

Digifriendly wrote: »

Think it's just making the point about those born outside the country they're playing for. Probably easier to compile this list than one with those who have been resident in their adopted country for a certain number of years.

I know, but in their tallies, Shontayne Hape and Jamie Heaslip count the same. That's just not right.

marco_polo

tolosenc wrote: »

Some of those labelled as "imports" are bollox.

ROG, Heaslip, Dusautoir, Ouedraogo, Moore, Shaw, MacKenzie, Barkley, Jackson, Morrison, and all the Welsh guys bar Faletau are hardly blow-ins to their respective countries.

I think what annoys the Kiwis up is that the same is true of alot of Pacific Island born All Black player when the accusation start flying towards them, so a little sly dig back at others is forgivable I think.

DM360

WeeBushy wrote: »

Very interesting.

What strikes me is that for all the talk of New Zealand poaching players from the Pacific Islands, they only have 4 players born outside of NZ, and the Pacific Island nations have imported a combined 29 players. Samoa have 15 all born in New Zealand.

That's this world-cup. In 2007 there were a few more, some important All Blacks aswell:

Joe Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu (Fiji)
Chris Masoe, Rodney So'oialo, Isaia Toeava, Mils Muliaina, Jerry Collins (Samoa)
Sione Lauaki (Tonga)

A good few of the starting line-up from Pacific Islands there so the whole 'poaching' is understandable but a bit silly really as most of these guys were schooled in NZ

GerM

DM360 wrote: »

That's this world-cup. In 2007 there were a few more, some important All Blacks aswell:

Joe Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu (Fiji)
Chris Masoe, Rodney So'oialo, Isaia Toeava, Mils Muliaina, Jerry Collins (Samoa)
Sione Lauaki (Tonga)

A good few of the starting line-up from Pacific Islands there so the whole 'poaching' is understandable but a bit silly really as most of these guys were schooled in NZ

It's not really understandable. Aside from Sivivatu (who was still in high school), all of them moved to NZ when children with their families for economic reasons. I'm not sure of all exact ages but I know Mils was about 2, Toeava was about 6 and Rokocoko was 5. The only ones who were with the PI team were Sivivatu and Lauaki as far as I'm aware. It's a myth and one that has been debunked several times over. It should actually be made a sticky on the rugby page at this stage! :pac:

bamboozle

hard to compare the likes of Hape with ROG.

I think the residency rule should be 5 years minimum.

marco_polo

GerM wrote: »

It's not really understandable. Aside from Sivivatu (who was still in high school), all of them moved to NZ when children with their families for economic reasons. I'm not sure of all exact ages but I know Mils was about 2, Toeava was about 6 and Rokocoko was 5. The only ones who were with the PI team were Sivivatu and Lauaki as far as I'm aware. It's a myth and one that has been debunked several times over. It should actually be made a sticky on the rugby page at this stage! :pac:

AFAIK Jerry Collins was very young as well.

GerM

bamboozle wrote: »

hard to compare the likes of Hape with ROG.

I think the residency rule should be 5 years minimum.

Agreed. It's bizarre to think that this time next year, Strauss could conceivably be starting in the Irish side with Best, a team leader and captain with over 50 caps who has represented Ireland at underage sitting on the bench. It doesn't sit well with me.

DM360

GerM wrote: »

It's not really understandable. Aside from Sivivatu (who was still in high school), all of them moved to NZ when children with their families for economic reasons. I'm not sure of all exact ages but I know Mils was about 2, Toeava was about 6 and Rokocoko was 5. The only ones who were with the PI team were Sivivatu and Lauaki as far as I'm aware. It's a myth and one that has been debunked several times over. It should actually be made a sticky on the rugby page at this stage! :pac:

To be honest I've no idea how you don't understand at all. If a team gets crushed by NZ I'm sure several of their supporters will feel upset and will refuse to see the point that perhaps their team wasn't good enough and will point out NZ's "bending the rules". Thus a huge amount of All Black's are either direct descendants of immigrants or are born on the Islands themselves. It's an easy and cheap (but stupid and childish) excuse to come up.

While I don't agree with it, I'm able to understand where the feeling might arise from.

GerM

DM360 wrote: »

To be honest I've no idea how you don't understand at all. If a team gets crushed by NZ I'm sure several of their supporters will feel upset and will refuse to see the point that perhaps their team wasn't good enough and will point out NZ's "bending the rules". Thus a huge amount of All Black's are either direct descendants of immigrants or are born on the Islands themselves. It's an easy and cheap (but stupid and childish) excuse to come up.

While I don't agree with it, I'm able to understand where the feeling might arise from.

Obviously I understand it. What's ridiculous is that people actually try and make the argument with the complete lack of evidence to back it up. There is never more than a few players born outside of NZ in their squad. The players you named were never in the squad together. The current squad has 3 and only one of them is a guaranteed starter in Kaino. A huge number? Not true. Their current squad has 20 Caucasian players along with several Maoris. The islander input is minimal. Perhaps the British teams should feel aggrieved as those Caucasians are descendants from England and Scotland? McCaw's lineage is from Scotland originally. Should they be bitter?

Other countries have no right to feel that way given they abuse it far more. There are many more New Zealanders who have an islander parent or grandparent representing island nations. Far more than the other way around.

irishbucsfan

DM360 wrote: »

That's this world-cup. In 2007 there were a few more, some important All Blacks aswell:

Joe Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu (Fiji)
Chris Masoe, Rodney So'oialo, Isaia Toeava, Mils Muliaina, Jerry Collins (Samoa)
Sione Lauaki (Tonga)

A good few of the starting line-up from Pacific Islands there so the whole 'poaching' is understandable but a bit silly really as most of these guys were schooled in NZ

Whatever about 2007, in 2011 the All-Blacks are not poaching.

All of the current All Blacks went to school in New Zealand. So it's not really understandable to say they are poaching is it?

And who exactly can claim they are poaching? Certainly not us Irish with Isaac Boss and Tom Court in our squad. Not the English with Tuilagi and a host of others. Not the Scots with Parks and Hynes from down under. Not the Aussies with all their pilfered players (including Cooper and Pocock). Not the South Africans with the Beast who played for them before he was even technically allowed to.

If anything New Zealand have one of the most domestic-based squads at the world cup, and I don't think anyone from a rivaling rugby nation has any place claiming otherwise.

handsomecake

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Whatever about 2007, in 2011 the All-Blacks are not poaching.

All of the current All Blacks went to school in New Zealand. So it's not really understandable to say they are poaching is it?

And who exactly can claim they are poaching? Certainly not us Irish with Isaac Boss and Tom Court in our squad. Not the English with Tuilagi and a host of others. Not the Scots with Parks and Hynes from down under. Not the Aussies with all their pilfered players (including Cooper and Pocock). Not the South Africans with the Beast who played for them before he was even technically allowed to.

If anything New Zealand have one of the most domestic-based squads at the world cup, and I don't think anyone from a rivaling rugby nation has any place claiming otherwise.

keith wood said on news talk he had no sympathy for new zealand as they had been poaching for years.i was disappointed in him.

DM360

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Whatever about 2007, in 2011 the All-Blacks are not poaching.

I don't think anyone's accused them of poaching recently but in the past the topic has been raised because of several outstanding players who happen to be of Pacific Island descent.

I obviously disagree with this opinion anyway so not sure why I'm considered on it's side...

To be honest Italy are one of the worst offenders of recent years in my opinion, a lot of their big names are born elsewhere:
Kaine Robertson, Luke McLean, Craig Gower, Paul Griffen, Diego Dominguez and Martin Castrogiovanni.

Surprisingly, Paul Derbyshire was born in Italy.