What's happened to Peter Stringer?

Sonics2k

Right, so I'll start off and admit I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to Rugby.

I've been watching and enjoying Rugby since the 90's, but really got into it during the Lions vs Australia tour a few years ago. I only really watch the matches involving Munster and Ireland.

However, over the past year or so I've noticed Peter Stringer getting picked on the first lineup less and less, especially for Ireland. But when he does get brought onto the pitch plays fantastically, and melds especially well with ROG as you'd expect after all their time playing together.

I've watched again and again as Stringer is ignored, and wasn't even taken to the World Cup, despite the fact he is a truly fantastic scrum half.
Now I've had numerous conversations with huge Rugby fans, and even watched various after match panels, and despite the question coming up quite a lot, no-one has been able to give a solid answer as to just why he is being replaced by players he frequently out-performs!

So Rugby forum, what's your opinion or reasoning for Peter Stringer, renowned as the best scrum half for Ireland, constantly being put to the side?

danthefan

He's not a truly fantastic SH at all is the long and the short of it.

allprops

Age.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Sringer has always had one dimension that was exceptional (the pass itself). It was one of the quickest passes around and i was perfectly accurate as well.

Unfortunately while his pass is still quick its accuracy isn't as good as it once was and is often high or low.

His box kick was never great and he was never an good sniper at the edge of a ruck. Despite being technically strong he isn't bulky enough to be a strong tackler.

What more he is aging at 33.

GerM

To put it succinctly, he's not as good as you seem to think he is. He was always limited and had one weapon. Now that his pass isn't as sharp as it once was he has rightly slid down the pecking order. It's not exactly an overnight thing; he hasn't been first choice for Ireland in 4 years.

nicebutdim

I think that he was never given the credit he deserved, especially outside of Ireland. It's a shame he's not 10 years younger as all of our S/Hs have their own problems ( and I'm a Leinster fan before you ask )

SomeFool

The writing was on the wall a long tome ago when TOL started being selected for the bigger Munster games.

Sonics2k

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Sringer has always had one dimension that was exceptional (the pass itself). It was one of the quickest passes around and i was perfectly accurate as well.

Unfortunately while his pass is still quick its accuracy isn't as good as it once was and is often high or low.

His box kick was never great and he was never an good sniper at the edge of a ruck. Despite being technically strong he isn't bulky enough to be a strong tackler.

What more he is aging at 33.

Fair enough, I can easily accept that he isn't as good as he once was. But still a damn good player.

I admit I never liked seeing TOL take his spot, as TOL can be so incredibly slow to get the ball out. He can play fantastically well at times, but it seems when he's under pressure he just doesn't get the ball out as quickly as he should, unlike Stringer.

BBDBB

thats true sonics but Strings and TOL are just two very different types of scrum half and TOL offers more these days, sad for a great servant of Irish and Munster rugby, but age catches up with us all eventually.

danthefan

TOL offers nothing these days. He shouldn't be in the Munster 23 for bigger games unless his form massively improves.

jayteecork

I saw him in the Liberty Grill a couple of weeks ago!

But yeah he should have gone to the WC. Boss getting picked ahead of him (and Murray for that matter) was a total joke as we didn't have an experienced SH.

Blooding players in the WC is not the right place.

PhatPiggins

jayteecork wrote: »

I saw him in the Liberty Grill a couple of weeks ago!

But yeah he should have gone to the WC. Boss getting picked ahead of him (and Murray for that matter) was a total joke as we didn't have an experienced SH.

Blooding players in the WC is not the right place.

Why not Stringer would have gone as 3rd choice so whats the point in bringing him. He's well below his best at this stage anyway.

tolosenc

Should have been in the World Cup squad IMO. Superior to Murray and vastly superior to O'Leary.

HungryEmperor

I've grown up watching stringer so I'll always think he's Ireland best number 9.

jayteecork

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Why not Stringer would have gone as 3rd choice so whats the point in bringing him. He's well below his best at this stage anyway.

TBH I don't know if Reddan picked up a knock but bringing on Murray against Austrlia was madness imo.

Reddan was having a great game. Lord knows what Kidney was thinking.

Stringer would have been a better choice as he has the experience of closing out games. What the hell does Murray know in fairness to the kid?

He's played a handful of Magner's League and one pre WC friendly.

He was very lucky he came on behind the most amazing pack performance we've seen from an irish team.

padraig.od

jayteecork wrote: »

TBH I don't know if Reddan picked up a knock but bringing on Murray against Austrlia was madness imo.

Reddan was having a great game. Lord knows what Kidney was thinking.

Stringer would have been a better choice as he has the experience of closing out games. What the hell does Murray know in fairness to the kid?

He's played a handful of Magner's League and one pre WC friendly.

He was very lucky he came on behind the most amazing pack performance we've seen from an irish team.

Was Reddan lucky he played behind the "most amazing pack performance we've seen from an irish team." Or is he just good?

Kidney was thinking he needed to win the match. Murray did well yesterday, one missed tackle and maybe should have tapped the penalty that made it 15 to Ireland (but if he had and we hadn't scored he'd be crucified). Fine substitution.

CatFromHue

It's an IRFU directive to limit the amount of baldy's playing for Ireland. It affects the sports image. That's why Hayes wasn't picked and why Best is made wear a scrum cap. POC is on very dangerous ground!:pac:

Boss and Reddan had good seasons for Leinster last season and then Murray started getting picked ahead of Stringer for Munster. So just on club form alone he wouldn't have been picked. He can't play forever after all.

wixfjord

tolosenc wrote: »

Should have been in the World Cup squad IMO. Superior to Murray and vastly superior to O'Leary.

Certainly not, and I can't understand how Stringer is still mentioned in the same breath as these guys.

The game has moved on, and a good pass (which has progressively got weaker) along with a terrier attitude, is no longer good enough.


By the way, though both our scrummies had great games yesterday.
Wasn't impressed with Murray in previous games, but he did very well in the white heat of the last 20. Good pass and good break.

TheHighRoad

padraig.od wrote: »

Was Reddan lucky he played behind the "most amazing pack performance we've seen from an irish team." Or is he just good?

I think your missing what hes saying. Hes saying that an inexperienced scrumhalf like Murray could have struggled a lot in such a big game if the pack hadn't been doing so well. We all know Reddan can perform in pressure situations with a struggling pack but it was a massive gamble seeing if Murray could considering his experience and the importance of the game.

I thought Murray did well for his experience and age but if we are judging him to the same standard as Reddan then he did ok and actually made a very costly error by throwing the ball right when we had a 3 man overlap outside. Luckily it didn't matter but just something Kidney should think about next time he brings on someone so inexperienced in a big game. That said, given the fact that Boss has had no gametime at all, Murray is my second choice by default but I would be very worried if we (fingers crossed) make it to the semis against France/Engand and Reddan is out.

phog

Wow, where's all the negativity coming from here :eek: In his time he's been superb for club, province and country. He lost form as did a lot of players in the 2007 WC, was devoured by BOD for an intercept pass (have we seen that happen since ???), lost his confidence and tbh has taken him a long time to regain it.

Looking at him so far this season anyone will see a markly improved Scrumhalf.

From a Irish point of view I think he's day has passed but he still has a lot to offer rugby and I heard him on Limerick 95FM recently and he doesn't seem to have any intention of hanging up his boots.

SomeFool

jayteecork wrote: »

I saw him in the Liberty Grill a couple of weeks ago!

But yeah he should have gone to the WC. Boss getting picked ahead of him (and Murray for that matter) was a total joke as we didn't have an experienced SH.

Blooding players in the WC is not the right place.

jayteecork wrote: »

TBH I don't know if Reddan picked up a knock but bringing on Murray against Austrlia was madness imo.

Reddan was having a great game. Lord knows what Kidney was thinking.

Stringer would have been a better choice as he has the experience of closing out games. What the hell does Murray know in fairness to the kid?

He's played a handful of Magner's League and one pre WC friendly.

He was very lucky he came on behind the most amazing pack performance we've seen from an irish team.

Did Murray drive over your cat or something? I think the lad is doing great, if you're good enough you're old enough imo.

gooch2k9

In Murrays case it isn't his age, its his inexperience. Look at the O'Connor lad for Oz, 21 with 32 caps. Although I think he's doing well at international level considering his inexperience.

As for stringer, time caught up with him I suppose. Him and O'Gara's partnership was lethal back in the day though.

Podge_irl

SomeFool wrote: »

if you're good enough you're old enough imo.

Many would contend he's not though. It's not his fault, but his lack of experience shows up the odd time in these games. He made a couple mistakes again when he came on - which is understandable for a player so inexperienced but a world cup is not really where he should be getting the experience.

Oranage2

Age and the fact the he has only the one dimesion of being able to pass the ball really well -

Teferi

phog wrote: »

From a Irish point of view I think he's day has passed but he still has a lot to offer rugby and I heard him on Limerick 95FM recently and he doesn't seem to have any intention of hanging up his boots.

And long may he last. I love watching Strings play. He never stays down. It's not the size of the dog and all that.

Monty Burnz

jayteecork wrote: »

TBH I don't know if Reddan picked up a knock but bringing on Murray against Austrlia was madness imo.

Having said that, he didn't look out of place, did he? One missed tackle apart, everything else was spot on. He even sat an Aussie defender on his arse with a lovely step for his 'try'.

PhatPiggins

padraig.od wrote: »

Was Reddan lucky he played behind the "most amazing pack performance we've seen from an irish team." Or is he just good?

Kidney was thinking he needed to win the match. Murray did well yesterday, one missed tackle and maybe should have tapped the penalty that made it 15 to Ireland (but if he had and we hadn't scored he'd be crucified). Fine substitution.

The point was that Murray was lucky to be playing behind that pack i.e loads of protection,time and support. That Reddan played extremely well is not an issue.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Having said that, he didn't look out of place, did he? One missed tackle apart, everything else was spot on. He even sat an Aussie defender on his arse with a lovely step for his 'try'.

He threw a fair few passes at knee level

Podge_irl

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

He threw a fair few passes at knee level

Went the wrong way following Kearney getting the ball in the Aussie 22 towards the end as well.

Monty Burnz

PhatPiggins wrote: »

The point was that Murray was lucky to be playing behind that pack i.e loads of protection,time and support. That Reddan played extremely well is not an issue.

And do we have reason to assume the the big and powerful Murray would struggle behind a losing pack any more than the much smaller Reddan?

Podge_irl

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And do we have reason to assume the the big and powerful Murray would struggle behind a losing pack any more than the much smaller Reddan?

It's not his size so much as his decision making that is being called into question. He's playing well, but it's clear he is inexperienced.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And do we have reason to assume the the big and powerful Murray would struggle behind a losing pack any more than the much smaller Reddan?

Experienced players can handle the pressure of playing behind a losing pack better than inexperienced players supposedly

PhatPiggins

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And do we have reason to assume the the big and powerful Murray would struggle behind a losing pack any more than the much smaller Reddan?

Come back to me when when that happens and I'll have an answer for you.

A.Partridge

Peter Stringer has been a great servant to Ireland and Irish rugby.

We owe him a lot.

Sadly time waits for no man and he occupied one of the most keenly contested positions on the team. It was becoming more and more difficult for him to keep his place in the face of scrumhalves with height, weight and age advantages.

Bannasidhe

What I cannot understand is how TOL is constantly favoured over Stringer. TOL is appallingly slow at the break-down, takes an age to pass the ball allowing the opposition to organise, telegraphs his intentions and his box kicks consistently go too far allowing the opposition time and space to attack. I agree that TOL is handy around the field but he does not appear to be able to fulfil the basics of the scrum half role.
Redden is good - no doubt about that. Murray has huge potential but I worry that his lack of big game experience will cost us if we advance beyond the pool stage. France, SA, All Blacks etc will not allow time for him to learn his craft.

As for his age - he's younger than ROG and is only a year and a half or so older than BOD, POC and DOC.

pappyodaniel

Serious nit-picking over the 'mistakes' Murray has made in the few international games he has played. Show me a game where Reddan hasn't made a glaring error. It's the nature of the position, the scrum half is the guy with the ball, he is the link between backs and forwards and with this responsibility he has to make split second decisions.

We haven't been blessed with a world class scrum half for as long as I've been watching the game and out of all the prospects I've seen in the 25 years I have been watching and playing rugby (as a scrum half) I have to admit Murray looks like the most promising in a long long time. Out of all our current scrum halves, even the guys not brought to the World Cup, you could say their weaknesses are all too glaringly obvious. Murray seems to have all the bits and pieces to his game. Now he just needs games to see if he can live up to the high expectations.

As for Stringer, what can you say? A hero of the game for Munster and Ireland. He can definately still offer something for Munster but tbf I think his International days are over.

robd

There's only 1 other 5"7' guy playing international rugby that I know of and that's Shane Williams. He's about the be retired too.

The game has hugely moved on around and especially since they introduced the rollaway in the tackle. There isn't much room for a guy on the pitch that's under 6" these days. Those that are have been around since the days of the old game.

Also, Stringer and O'Gara offered one of the quickest passes in rugby in their day and arguable still do. O'Gara could do lots to place a kick deep into opposition territory for a lineout from his own 22. This was neutralized with the carry back rule into your own 22. Its no coincidence that Ireland have looked elsewhere for both positions around this time.

New IRB rules are leading to much more running, breaking lines. Much more like rugby league where it's hard to tell difference between player types. The only kicking is box kicking and up-and-unders where centers or wingers can get forward and challenge for the 50/50 ball.

Stringer has aged, he's very small, and he offers a one-dimensional game play thats be heavily neutralized by IRB rule changes.

Bannasidhe

robd wrote: »

There's only 1 other 5"7' guy playing international rugby that I know of and that's Shane Williams. He's about the be retired too.

The game has hugely moved on around and especially since they introduced the rollaway in the tackle. There isn't much room for a guy on the pitch that's under 6" these days. Those that are have been around since the days of the old game.

Also, Stringer and O'Gara offered one of the quickest passes in rugby in their day and arguable still do. O'Gara could do lots to place a kick deep into opposition territory for a lineout from his own 22. This was neutralized with the carry back rule into your own 22. Its no coincidence that Ireland have looked elsewhere for both positions around this time.

New IRB rules are leading to much more running, breaking lines. Much more like rugby league where it's hard to tell difference between player types. The only kicking is box kicking and up-and-unders where centers or wingers can get forward and challenge for the 50/50 ball.

Stringer has aged, he's very small, and he offers a one-dimensional game play thats be heavily neutralized by IRB rule changes.

Wil Genia is 5' 9" - taller than Stringer but still a great deal less then 6 foot! While at 5' 7" Redden is the same height as Stringer.

I agree that the rule changes have resulted in Union beginning to resemble League more and more...which is a huge pity. If I wanted to watch League - I'd watch League!

Fight_Night

robd wrote: »

There's only 1 other 5"7' guy playing international rugby that I know of and that's Shane Williams. He's about the be retired too.

The game has hugely moved on around and especially since they introduced the rollaway in the tackle. There isn't much room for a guy on the pitch that's under 6" these days. Those that are have been around since the days of the old game.

I'd definitely disagree with this. Even in the NFL you can have the odd player who is 5'6''. A good athlete is a good athlete. Although being somewhere between 5'11''-6'2'' is preferable.

robd

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Wil Genia is 5' 9" - taller than Stringer but still a great deal less then 6 foot! While at 5' 7" Redden is the same height as Stringer.

There are of course exceptions. It just seems to be heading more and more this way. Conor Murray (love him or loath him) is 6'.

Not to nitpick but Redden is down on Leinster Rugby and Irish Rugby site as 5'9". How true that is I don't know.

irishbucsfan

Fight_Night wrote: »

I'd definitely disagree with this. Even in the NFL you can have the odd player who is 5'6''. A good athlete is a good athlete. Although being somewhere between 5'11''-6'2'' is preferable.

The NFL is far more specialised, and even then the short guys like Darren Sproles are nearly 90kg. Stringer is something like 70.

Fight_Night

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The NFL is far more specialised, and even then the short guys like Darren Sproles are nearly 90kg. Stringer is something like 70.

Yeah I know the NFL has probably the best athletes in the world so bit of an extreme example but I really don't think that a player who is say 5'8'' is doomed to never make the cut. Although I agree that players, particularly backs are getting bigger. Personally I think the Irish backs are too small, weight wise.

Bannasidhe

robd wrote: »

There are of course exceptions. It just seems to be heading more and more this way. Conor Murray (love him or loath him) is 6'.

Not to nitpick but Redden is down on Leinster Rugby and Irish Rugby site as 5'9". How true that is I don't know.

He's down on Wikipedia as 5' 7" - but either way, still less then 6 foot.;)

I just remember this thing about height being used against Mick Galwey back in the day and it was something Neil Back spoke publicly about when he was judged to be too short too. Love or loath Back - he was a damn fine flanker.

I agree it is heading that way - which is I think a shame. One of the things I love about Union was how it utilises (d?) different body types unlike League which seems to be a game only for 6 foot odd flankers.

nice_guy80

I would have thought Boss would be the much steadier player to come on rather than Murray