Irish media hostile towards Catholic Church, O'Toole admits

Monty.

Irish media hostile towards Church, O'Toole admits

"One of Ireland's most influential columnists, and a long-time critic of the Catholic Church, has admitted that there is a culture of hostility in the Irish media towards religion."

"In an interview with the Irish Catholic, Fintan O'Toole, assistant editor for the Irish Times, said that the media's coverage of religion is “snobbish and dismissive.” And he accepted that people are “quite right to be upset about that and critical of the attitude - I think it is there.”

"He said that a second problem with the Irish media's coverage of religion is a certain “dumbing down” regarding issues concerning values and morality."

"O'Toole also admitted that, “it no longer takes any courage to attack the Church.” He added that he had “a lot of sympathy” with people who feel that religion is badly represented in the Irish media."

"O’Toole also acknowledged the child abuse issue was being used to “get at Catholicism” and that suggestions that Catholicism is innately linked to child abuse are “complete rubbish.” He said the issue “has nothing to do with Catholicism.”

“A lot of people have been trying to use this to get at Catholicism [by saying that] it's fundamentally corrupt and therefore it leads to the abuse of children. This is complete rubbish and it's demonstrably rubbish. Most child abuse happens within families and there are umpteen cases of Protestant orphanages.”

“It has nothing innately to do with Catholicism, it has to do with power.”

http://www.cinews.ie/article.php?artid=9006

charlemont

The church spent long enough attacking the people so there's no point moaning when the tables have turned.

Manach

This should come as no surprise. For instance, recently instead of reporting on the well attended WYD in Madrid, the Irish Media focused on the minority protests against the Pope's visit.

gimmebroadband

charlemont wrote: »

The church spent long enough attacking the people so there's no point moaning when the tables have turned.

The church preaching the gospel is hardly attacking the people is it!

Monty.

charlemont wrote: »

The church spent long enough attacking the people so there's no point moaning when the tables have turned.

Since when were the press supposed to be biased one way or another ?

Opinicus

Manach wrote: »

This should come as no surprise. For instance, recently instead of reporting on the well attended WYD in Madrid, the Irish Media focused on the minority protests against the Pope's visit.

They mostly mentioned the protesters in the context of the nutter who was planning a chemical attack on them.

gumtree

Sunday, September 18, 2011

Norris Slams McGuinness

Presidential hopeful David Norris slams Martin McGuinness as SINN FÉIN had Agreed To Nominate Norris and pulled the Sword From Stone.

Mr Norris made no comment to reporters when asked about the matter outside his Dublin home shortly before 10pm, It is understood Mr Norris is to take legal action on the matter

Fanny Cradock

I think you meant to post that elsewhere, gumtree. Politics maybe?

charlemont

gimmebroadband wrote: »

The church preaching the gospel is hardly attacking the people is it!

I'm sure unmarried mothers, Homosexuals and sexually abused people wouldn't see it like that. Hiding abusers isn't exactly in the gospels either. Installing fear on a largely rural ignorant populace isn't exactly in the gospels either.

charlemont

Monty. wrote: »

Since when were the press supposed to be biased one way or another ?

I'll agree with that, They should be printing actual news related events, All that celebrity junk only takes from the serious issues in the world today.

strobe

Monty. wrote: »

“it no longer takes any courage to attack the Church.”

Out of interest, does anyone view this as a bad thing?

crucamim

charlemont wrote: »

The church spent long enough attacking the people so there's no point moaning when the tables have turned.

You are probably correct in saying that there is no point moaning about it.

The RC Church could do something to protect itself from the media. It could use its parish newsletters to organise a boycott of the delinquent newspapers and of all firms which advertise in them. Falling sales revenue and falling advertising revenue are languages which the owners of media businesses understand.

I suspect that the RC Church has not retaliated because the attacks from journalists (a discredited profession) helps to distract attention from the failings of the leaders of the RC Church.

crucamim

charlemont wrote: »

I'm sure unmarried mothers, Homosexuals and sexually abused people wouldn't see it like that. Hiding abusers isn't exactly in the gospels either. Installing fear on a largely rural ignorant populace isn't exactly in the gospels either.

You seem to be questioning the right of the RC Church to preach Catholicism.

Opinicus

crucamim wrote: »

You seem to be questioning the right of the RC Church to preach Catholicism.

When the RCC are preaching that these things are immoral or wrong then it should not be surprised when its own failings are mentioned.

alex73

Manach wrote: »

This should come as no surprise. For instance, recently instead of reporting on the well attended WYD in Madrid, the Irish Media focused on the minority protests against the Pope's visit.

100% correct.. I was there. Saw no protestors... Family phoning me from Ireland saying was I ok,.,, were the kids ok?--- What a distortion of the reality by the Irish media. Ireland only saw one side// The Media side of the event. They saw nothing of that I saw there on the ground.

AhSureTisGrand

Manach wrote: »

This should come as no surprise. For instance, recently instead of reporting on the well attended WYD in Madrid, the Irish Media focused on the minority protests against the Pope's visit.

Millions of people go to Mass every week, but where are the reports on them? The meja is biased I say!

Manach

Thanks for pointing out the massive public support the Church enjoys and the numbers of my fellow Catholics.

Monty.

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

The meja is biased I say!

Thats what one of Irelands leading journalists has admitted, yes.

I would welcome it if the Irish and international media done some proper investigative journalism, and reported both sides of the story, and distinguished between the guilty, the corrupt, and the innocent doing good work in the Church, but they refuse to do this, and prefer misquotes, misrepresentation. prejudices and generalisations. This is not a healthy development for any media.

alex73

Monty. wrote: »

Thats what one of Irelands leading journalists has admitted, yes.

I would welcome it if the Irish and international media done some proper investigative journalism, and reported both sides of the story, and distinguished between the guilty, the corrupt, and the innocent doing good work in the Church, but they refuse to do this, and prefer misquotes, misrepresentation. prejudices and generalisations. This is not a healthy development for any media.

You must be joking... That won't sell newspapers or attract advertising ;-)Its only the perverted scandal that really hits the headlines.. You can see its fixation on a certain presidential hopeful...Their agenda is quiet clear and its astonishing how many people believe it!!.

El_Duderino 09

Considering this issue in light of the censorship in the past. The Catholics had too much power over all media in the state. That power has been eroded over time and the facade of their influence has crumbled over the last decade. There might be a whole lot of this kind of backlash to come before a reasonable middle ground can be found.

Part of me thinks the Catholics would like to show the new policies they have put in place to protect children and I do think they probably won't allow that kind of abuse carry on in the future. On the other hand they have spent so long pretending the problem either never happened or wasn't too serious that they can't really be honest about the good work they have done recently because the contrast would only show if they admitted how serious the problems were in the past and that would require culpability and compensation.

Media bias is unhealthy in any direction. I hope a reasonable middle ground is reached soon but I think the backlash is a human response.

If a middle ground were to be reached how much coverage would Catholics need in the media to be fairly represented? Is there any element of the coverage they get now being better than little or no coverage at all?

Monty.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If a middle ground were to be reached how much coverage would Catholics need in the media to be fairly represented? Is there any element of the coverage they get now being better than little or no coverage at all?

In a word, No.

There a constant and deliberate brainwash propaganda going on that Catholics = Bad.

The only thing that is holding them back, and they are holding back, is the fact that many of their elderly relatives are Catholic.

When that generation dies off it will be gloves off.

Personally I'm happy to isolate myself from this so called Irish "society", I want no part of them anymore, and they can be left to fester in their own talentless "celebrity" culture Sodom and Gomorrah.

alex73

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If a middle ground were to be reached how much coverage would Catholics need in the media to be fairly represented? Is there any element of the coverage they get now being better than little or no coverage at all?

1. RTE primetime accused a priest of Raping a Woman in Africa resulting in a Child... Priest said he was innocent and took a paternity test.. Results negative. Would it not have been better to bring the accusation tot the priest, If he refused paternity test, then make the report. But what RTE did was report an unfounded allegation and drag an innocent mans name into the public domain with NO PROOF!!

2. World youth day.. Totally focused on an extremely small group of protesters that I didn't even see. little reporting on the 2 million young people who went.

AhSureTisGrand

alex73 wrote: »

Their agenda is quiet clear

Yes. It's called profit. I hear it's quite important in the business world

alex73

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Yes. It's called profit. I hear it's quite important in the business world

Yeap... Profit at the expense of Truth and objective reporting

El_Duderino 09

Monty. wrote: »

In a word, No.

There a constant and deliberate brainwash propaganda going on that Catholics = Bad.

The only thing that is holding them back, and they are holding back, is the fact that many of their elderly relatives are Catholic.

When that generation dies off it will be gloves off.

Personally I'm happy to isolate myself from this so called Irish "society", I want no part of them anymore, and they can be left to fester in their own talentless "celebrity" culture Sodom and Gomorrah.

Would it be any better if there was constant and deliberate brainwashing that Catholics = Good?

When things settle down and Catholic bashing doesn't interest people anymore, I for one hope, it will arrive at a neutral position. Bashing anything can't sell forever certainly not at the current level. So when those old relatives die off it might have mostly blown over. In the same sense that you can always have the right to pro catholic journalism pointing out the good you have to respect the right to point out the bad.

Not a big fan of celebrity culture myself. When I run the show that Exposé show will be first agin the wall.

crucamim

Opinicus wrote: »

When the RCC are preaching that these things are immoral or wrong then it should not be surprised when its own failings are mentioned.

Very true. Unfortunately, the attacks have gone much further. There have been attacks on the right of the RC Church to preach Catholicism. There has been interference in its internal affairs - even on the appointment of bishops. There have been challenges to its right to control the schools which it owns. There have even been challenges to the right of RC schools to accept the children of Catholics in preference to the children of non-Catholics. There have been no such challenges to the right of Protestant schools to give preference to the children of Protestants. BUT the really big problem has not been bias, the problem has been dishonesty - with Fintan O'Toole one of the worst offenders.

El_Duderino 09

alex73 wrote: »

1. RTE primetime accused a priest of Raping a Woman in Africa resulting in a Child... Priest said he was innocent and took a paternity test.. Results negative. Would it not have been better to bring the accusation tot the priest, If he refused paternity test, then make the report. But what RTE did was report an unfounded allegation and drag an innocent mans name into the public domain with NO PROOF!!

2. World youth day.. Totally focused on an extremely small group of protesters that I didn't even see. little reporting on the 2 million young people who went.

I am not familiar with that case but if it happened they way you put it, then that was awful journalism. Reporting on an accusation on the other hand might be a different thing.

It is worth keeping in mind that it is the media that the Cathilics had so much power over in the past and it happens that the media are in a position to manipulate the telling of the truth in the same way they were when the Catholics pulled the strings. The old saying to the effect of 'don't start a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel' springs to mind. That is not an excuse for current form, maybe it explains some of it though.

crucamim

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I am not familiar with that case but if it happened they way you put it, then that was awful journalism. Reporting on an accusation on the other hand might be a different thing.

Over the years the Eire media has clamoured for integrated education in Northern Ireland. Those of us who have opposed it have been dismissed as "cavemen." In March 1983 there was a criminal trial in Belfast - the result of a sectarian brawl among students attending Lurgan College of Further Education. A Catholic youth had been stabbed to the heart. Introducing the prosecution case, the solicitor for the Director of Public Prosecutions said "Sectarian brawls are an every day occurrence at this college." That trial was a kick in the teeth for the integrated education brigade.

How was the trial reported by the Eire media? It was not reported by RTE, by the Irish Times, the Irish Press, or the Irish Independent - a classic example of how news from Northern Ireland has been bent in order to mould opinion in Eire.

Manach

Whilst I think El_Duderino 09's hope for a media balance is a reasonable one, I don't see this happening. The print media is serving a diminishing market, so it would need to continue to serve its core demographic - be it X-factor afficindo's or people who have concluded that the RCC is beyond redemption and needs to be removed from Irish Society - by a continuous spotlight on any negative aspects. There is a historical analogy with the French 3rd(?) republic regime, where anti-clerical media kept up the assault for generations.
So, it seems that the RCC readership of traditional media will move to other sources that would have either no ideological axe to grind or else to Catholic media sources such as 'Irish Catholic' or EWTN.

El_Duderino 09

crucamim wrote: »

Over the years the Eire media has clamoured for integrated education in Northern Ireland. Those of us who have opposed it have been dismissed as "cavemen." In March 1983 there was a criminal trial in Belfast - the result of a sectarian brawl among students attending Lurgan College of Further Education. A Catholic youth had been stabbed to the heart. Introducing the prosecution case, the solicitor for the Director of Public Prosecutions said "Sectarian brawls are an every day occurrence at this college." That trial was a kick in the teeth for the integrated education brigade.

How was the trial reported by the Eire media? It was not reported by RTE, by the Irish Times, the Irish Press, or the Irish Independent - a classic example of how news from Northern Ireland has been bent in order to mould opinion in Eire.

Thanks for that special report crucamim, and now back to the news.

gimmebroadband

If the media can't find anything newsworthy, they'll 'invent/twist' one that is, never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

crucamim

Manach wrote: »

Whilst I think El_Duderino 09's hope for a media balance is a reasonable one, I don't see this happening. The print media is serving a diminishing market, so it would need to continue to serve its core demographic - be it X-factor afficindo's or people who have concluded that the RCC is beyond redemption and needs to be removed from Irish Society - by a continuous spotlight on any negative aspects. There is a historical analogy with the French 3rd(?) republic regime, where anti-clerical media kept up the assault for generations.
So, it seems that the RCC readership of traditional media will move to other sources that would have either no ideological axe to grind or else to Catholic media sources such as 'Irish Catholic' or EWTN.

The "Irish Catholic" is far too church focussed for it to provide significant competition for the anti-Catholic newspapers of Ireland.

We need a secular newspaper which is not anti-Catholic. We need a secular newspaper to report on secular events - just as the Irish Independent and Irish Times do - a Catholic newspaper which will tell its readers about the most recent football star to join Arsenal and not clutter up space telling is about the family background of the new curate of Ballygobackwards - as if any normal person cared.

We do not need a secular newspaper to peddle pro-Vatican propaganda. We do need a secular newspaper which tells the truth and the whole truth, which does not exaggerate - which does not insinuate that a lie is the truth or that a truth is a lie, which does not report for established fact what are merely rumours, fears or suspicions.

The Catholic Church in Ireland has the resources to estabish such a newspaper which could compete with the anti-Catholic hate publications such as the Irish Examiner, the Irish Times and the Irish Independent.

P.S. The GAA should also consider that option and ban journalists, who write for anti-GAA publications, from its premises.

Manach

As per crucamim's suggestion, I did a little google research. This is a French daily with a RCC framework but covers daily issues.
La Croix
A possible model?

crucamim

Another possible solution would be legislation banning domination of the media by an individual. Possibly banning any individual from owning more than 1% of the shares in any media business and banning a person having shares in several media businesses. And the law should insist that a shareholder in a media business be a natural person and not a Company.

I remember a prominent Eire journalist stating on RTE "I was merely articulating the policy of my newspaper". How many other Eire journalists are merely puppets on a string controlled by the owner of the newspaper for which they work? The owner of an Eire newspaper has said "If you do not oppose violence, you will not work for us". If he controls his journalists in respect of one issue, we must assume that he controls them on many issues.

El_Duderino 09

crucamim wrote: »

The Catholic Church in Ireland has the resources to estabish such a newspaper which could compete with the anti-Catholic hate publications such as the Irish Examiner, the Irish Times and the Irish Independent.

How would you square that Catholic resourced newspaper with the 1% shares rules you suggest next? Would the Catholics be subject to the natural persons part too?

Another possible solution would be legislation banning domination of the media by an individual. Possibly banning any individual from owning more than 1% of the shares in any media business and banning a person having shares in several media businesses. And the law should insist that a shareholder in a media business be a natural person and not a Company.

crucamim

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How would you square that Catholic resourced newspaper with the 1% shares rules you suggest next?

It would not square with my alternative suggestion. And it was not meant to square with my alternative suggestion. If we had the law stopping a natural or legal person having a dominant position in the media, the Catholic Church would not need to own and control its own newspaper.

El_Duderino 09

crucamim wrote: »

It would not square with my alternative suggestion. And it was not meant to square with my alternative suggestion. If we had the law stopping a natural or legal person having a dominant position in the media, the Catholic Church would not need to own and control its own newspaper.

I see what you mean. Fair enough.