UK Government commits to legalising gay marriage

Dr Galen

Read this on the BBC website (here)

The consultation period starts early next year, and they are aiming to have the Law changed by the next GE. Interestingly, they have currently civil partnerships, but these are limited to gay couples only. A different solution to what we implemented here.

All in all, I'd welcome these changes, and would hope that we will follow suit here before long.

This is a pretty big win for the Lib Dems tbh, I'd have thought that even though this was part of the Conservative manifesto, Cameron would have been pretty happy to let it drift for a while. Looks like he'll have a fair bit of opposition within his own ranks.

thebman

Wow now there is a pleasant surprise, hope Labour can achieve the same here though unlikely with FG being the major partner in the coalition.

http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1241688554881714.html

Time to put the bed this oppression of gay rights as it will in years come to be looked on with shame that this took so long to come about much like rights for other minorities in the past I think.

I'm pretty ashamed that Ireland is so slow moving on important social issues like this. Our politicians are far too obsessed with avoiding anything controversial.

Manach

This bill, thankfully IMHO, will not be an easy win.
At a guess, the committed Conservative elements of the party and the Catholic Church (a historically anomalous alliance) will mount a definite rearguard action against this.

thebman

Manach wrote: »

This bill, thankfully IMHO, will not be an easy win.
At a guess, the committed Conservative elements of the party and the Catholic Church (a historically anomalous alliance) will mount a definite rearguard action against this.

Why are you thankful that it will not be an easy win?

LondonIrish90

Dr Galen wrote: »

Read this on the BBC website (here)

The consultation period starts early next year, and they are aiming to have the Law changed by the next GE. Interestingly, they have currently civil partnerships, but these are limited to gay couples only. A different solution to what we implemented here.

All in all, I'd welcome these changes, and would hope that we will follow suit here before long.

This is a pretty big win for the Lib Dems tbh, I'd have thought that even though this was part of the Conservative manifesto, Cameron would have been pretty happy to let it drift for a while. Looks like he'll have a fair bit of opposition within his own ranks.

David Cameron is very liberal on some social issues such as this. I for one will be very pleased to see this law passed.

hatrickpatrick

Everyone here knows that I find the UK's draconian restrictions on civil liberties absolutely appalling, but this is one area where they will always surpass Ireland.

I sometimes worry that Ireland will never throw off the yoke of the so-called "Christian" fundamentalism which has blinded and dominated this country's destiny for so long

PeterIanStaker

I'm glad that this is going through, hopefully we'll follow suit here in Ireland soon.

Pete_Cavan

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Everyone here knows that I find the UK's draconian restrictions on civil liberties absolutely appalling, but this is one area where they will always surpass Ireland.

I sometimes worry that Ireland will never throw off the yoke of the so-called "Christian" fundamentalism which has blinded and dominated this country's destiny for so long

From the article linked in the OP;

Civil partnerships give same-sex couples the right to the same legal treatment across a range of matters as married couples but the law does not allow such unions to be referred to as marriages.
...
New rules set to come into force early next year will allow religious premises to hold civil partnership ceremonies. The move is voluntary and religious organisations will not be obliged to do so.

So basically, the proposed legislation will allow religious premises to hold civil partnership ceremonies - if they want. We have civil partnerships in this country and I would imagine if they want to allow same sex ceremonies is a matter for the various churches. Marriage is a religious institution and it is not the responsibility of the state to dictate to them who they allow to partake in their institutions. I think people are reading way too much into this.

Dr Galen

Not really Pete.

Marriage in the UK can be either a civil or religious ceremony. Regardless of it being civil or religious, it is only available to hetereo couples.

A civil partnership in the UK has some of the same rights attached as marriage, but is not the same, and cannot be called a marriage. This is only open to gay couples.

At present civil partnership ceremonies can only take place in certain government authorised places like registry offices for example. One part of the new laws will allow these tobe performed in religious buildings. They will still only be open to gay couples though.

The other part of the law is relating to the civil marriage, and opening that up to same sex couples.

Batsy

The left-wingers who run Britain love to attack marriage: that is normal marriage between a man and a woman, the way it should be.

However, when it comes to unnatural marriage between people of the same gender it is positively encouraged, this despite the fact that it is not natural for two people of the same gender to have sex with each other (two people of the same gender cannot reproduce as nature didn't intent for two people of the same gender to have such a relationship so if everybody on the planet only had sex with people of the ame gender then the human race would eventually become extinct).

Marriage between a man and a woman: not encouraged.
Marriage between a man and a man or a woman and a woman: very much encouraged.

What strange and bizarre times we live in.

Dr Galen

I'm not sure where to start really, or if it's even worth bothering to.....

Benny_Cake

Batsy wrote: »

The left-wingers who run Britain love to attack marriage: that is normal marriage between a man and a woman, the way it should be.

However, when it comes to unnatural marriage between people of the same gender it is positively encouraged, this despite the fact that it is not natural for two people of the same gender to have sex with each other (two people of the samje gender cannot reproduce as nature didn't intent for two people of the same gender to have such a relationship so if everybody on the planet only had sex with people of the ame gender then the human race would eventually become extinct).

Marriage between a man and a woman: not encouraged.
Marriage between a man and a man or a woman and a woman: very much encouraged.

What strange and bizarre times we live in.

The only thing strange and bizarre is your post.Just in case you're concerned,making same-sex marriage legal doesn't mean you have to marry someone of the same gender!Also,who exactly is discouraging straight couples from getting married?

Pete_Cavan

Dr Galen wrote: »

Not really Pete.

Marriage in the UK can be either a civil or religious ceremony. Regardless of it being civil or religious, it is only available to hetereo couples.

A civil partnership in the UK has some of the same rights attached as marriage, but is not the same, and cannot be called a marriage. This is only open to gay couples.

At present civil partnership ceremonies can only take place in certain government authorised places like registry offices for example. One part of the new laws will allow these tobe performed in religious buildings. They will still only be open to gay couples though.

The other part of the law is relating to the civil marriage, and opening that up to same sex couples.

I know, I actually read the article, unlike some posters who read the thread title and decided this was some radical, groundbreaking legislation which makes it look like we are still in the middle ages. Allowing civil partnership ceremonies to be performed in religious buildings (should the religious order so want) is hardly revolutionary.

sparkling sea

Marriage in Ireland is fundemental a legal contract, the religous part of the ceremony is purely a matter of choice - its not needed to be legally married here.

I wouldn't be a lover of labels and so I really think it an infrigement of basic fundmental human rights to only allow some people who want to commit to each other the right to marry.

If the legal contract of a civil partnership is the same as marriage, why not just call it marriage. There is not one ethical or equitable reason for stopping people who are in love from getting married - bias, power and spitefullness are the the only reasons I can come up with - not very humane IMO.

Pete_Cavan

sparkling sea wrote: »

Marriage in Ireland is fundemental a legal contract, the religous part of the ceremony is purely a matter of choice - its not needed to be legally married here.

I wouldn't be a lover of labels and so I really think it an infrigement of basic fundmental human rights to only allow some people who want to commit to each other the right to marry.

If the legal contract of a civil partnership is the same as marriage, why not just call it marriage. There is not one ethical or equitable reason for stopping people who are in love from getting married - bias, power and spitefullness are the the only reasons I can come up with - not very humane IMO.

Marriage is a religious institution and is a union in the eyes of God. Different religions have different opinions of who they believe should be married in the eyes of God based on their interpretation on the word of God. Obviously may of the major religions in this country dont except same sex marriage. If thats what they want to believe then let them at it, it isnt up to the state to tell them what they can and cant believe.

I dont understand why a same sex couple would want their union recognised by an institution which discriminates against them because of their sexual orientation anyway. Why would you want to be in a club which rejects you based on one of the most fundamental aspects of who you are?

Surely the most important thing for same sex couples is to have the same civil rights as hetereo couples which is a matter for the state. This is partly addressed by civil partnerships but many gay rights campaigners believe same sex couples should have the same rights as hetereo couples on issues relating to children, guardianship, adoption, etc. The legislation being proposed in the UK does not change the law there in this regard so they are really no more progressive then we are.

TylerIE

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Marriage is a religious institution and is a union in the eyes of God. Different religions have different opinions of who they believe should be married in the eyes of God based on their interpretation on the word of God. Obviously may of the major religions in this country dont except same sex marriage. If thats what they want to believe then let them at it, it isnt up to the state to tell them what they can and cant believe.

I dont understand why a same sex couple would want their union recognised by an institution which discriminates against them because of their sexual orientation anyway. Why would you want to be in a club which rejects you based on one of the most fundamental aspects of who you are?

Its a while since I read into it and I Am open to correction however Marriage was around pre - Christianity. I dont remember the exact history but it was discussed at length in the US Proposition 8 Trial.

Same sex couples want equality - marriage is equality. Civil Partnership with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage is not equality. It leaves LGBT individuals on an unequal footing.

Very few same-sex couples are seeking for Churches to be forced to marry them, although a small number of Irish Churches would welcome LGBT couples.

Irish gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans individuals do however expect the state to afford them the same recognition of their siblings and fellow citizens in hetro-sexual relationships.

Dr Galen

You still seem to missing the part in the article whereby the UK government intends to legislate to allow full civil marriage for gay couples by 2015 Pete. That why I pointed out that the proposed changes have two parts......

Currently in the UK gay couples cannot get married, the government have committed to changing this situation. That's pretty big news, although expected in large part.

Also, marriage is not solely a religious act. Lots and lots of people get married outside of any church both here and in the UK. You seem to mixing up the religious sacrament of marriage with the civil type of marriage. While in many cases both these things get mixed in together, in lots of cases there is no religious aspect to marriage at all.