Palestinian envoy to US wants Jew - free State.

anymore

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-13/palestinian-israeli-jews-future-state-israel-PLO/50394882/1?AID=4992781&PID=4003003&SID=6qc7vt0rtko1

USA Today is reporting that " The Palestine Liberation Organization's ambassador to the United States said Tuesday that any future Palestinian state it seeks with help from the United Nations and the United States should be free of Jews. ..."
"
"After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated," Maen Areikat, the PLO ambassador, said during a meeting with reporters sponsored by The Christian Science Monitor. He was responding to a question about the rights of minorities in a Palestine of the future. ".....
Given the determination of the Palestinians to apply for Statehood, it seems like an extraordinary unwise statement to make.
Any views on whether he is simply being honest or has committed an enormous diplomatic gaffe ?

Jaafa

Well its certainly the wrong thing to say but its only what Israel has been practicing for years. Of course that doesn't make either side right. But Segregation has always been a key policy of Israel. The walls, fences, checkpoints separate roads.

To say that both sides haven't been driving the mentality of them against us is madness.

anymore

Jaafa wrote: »

Well its certainly the wrong thing to say but its only what Israel has been practicing for years. Of course that doesn't make either side right. But Segregation has always been a key policy of Israel. The walls, fences, checkpoints separate roads.

To say that both sides haven't been driving the mentality of them against us is madness.

What struck me was the the timing of this statement - I mean could the Israeils have wanted a better present from a Palestinina diplomat !

Foghladh

It wouldn't be without precedence in history I suppose

Jaafa

anymore wrote: »

What struck me was the the timing of this statement - I mean could the Israeils have wanted a better present from a Palestinina diplomat !

Indeed and coming from USA today as well. I'll wait for the response by the PA before making final conclusions.

anymore

Jaafa wrote: »

Indeed and coming from USA today as well. I'll wait for the response by the PA before making final conclusions.

Is USA generall regarded as neural on the matter or biased or even very biased towards ISRAEL ?
I first picked up on this from P.IE, but as they were quoting the Jerusalem Post, ignored it until I found a link to US Today.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-13/palestinian-israeli-jews-future-state-israel-PLO/50394882/1?AID=4992781&PID=4003003&SID=6qc7vt0rtko1

USA Today is reporting that " The Palestine Liberation Organization's ambassador to the United States said Tuesday that any future Palestinian state it seeks with help from the United Nations and the United States should be free of Jews. ..."
"
"After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated," Maen Areikat, the PLO ambassador, said during a meeting with reporters sponsored by The Christian Science Monitor. He was responding to a question about the rights of minorities in a Palestine of the future. ".....
Given the determination of the Palestinians to apply for Statehood, it seems like an extraordinary unwise statement to make.
Any views on whether he is simply being honest or has committed an enormous diplomatic gaffe ?

....both sides feature assholes who will occassionally come out with ****e. It's actions and policy that should be used to decide on the matter, not the odd eejit.

It has to be said that this isn't exactly calling for Judenrein

After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated,"

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

....both sides feature assholes who will occassionally come out with ****e. It's actions and policy that should be used to decide on the matter, not the odd eejit.

It has to be said that this isn't exactly calling for Judenrein

With the best will in the world, I dont think anyone could call this man simply an eejit !
He is by any standards an very able and distinguised diplomat :
Chief Representative Maen Rashid Areikat
PLO Representative to the U.S.


Maen Rashid Areikat was born October 12, 1960 in Jericho in the occupied West Bank.

Prior to his appointment to Washington, Mr. Areikat was bestowed the rank of Ambassador by Chairman of the PLO and Palestinian National Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

Maen Areikat served for 11 years at the Negotiations Affairs Department (NAD) of the PLO in Ramallah, most recently as its Deputy Head and Coordinator-General (2008-2009). Areikat first joined NAD in 1998, when it was headed by current Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen), and served as its Director-General until March 2008. In addition to overseeing NAD’s day-to-day operations, Mr. Areikat was responsible for overseeing the work of the Negotiations Support Unit (NSU), which provides legal, policy, communication and technical support to Palestinian Negotiating Teams and to the Palestinian Leadership

Prior to his service at NAD, Chief Representative Areikat spent six years at Orient House (1993-1998), the headquarters of the PLO in Jerusalem and of the Palestinian Negotiating Team to the Madrid peace talks. While at Orient House, he served as spokesperson for the late Mr. Faisal Husseini, former PLO Executive Committee member in charge of Jerusalem Affairs, and later as Desk Officer for the U.S., Canada, Australia and South Africa in Orient House’s International Relations Department. Chief Representative Areikat previously took part in Palestinian-Israeli negotiations at Beit Hanoun/Erez in Gaza and Taba in Egypt in 1996, in Jerusalem in 1997 and was an official member of the Palestinian delegation at the Wye River negotiations in 1998.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

With the best will in the world, I dont think anyone could call this man simply an eejit !
..............

I just did, taking the headline at face value.

However, I call into question the interpretation of what he stated.

After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated,"

Given the fact that side (a) and (b) have been at loggerheads for so long, and that neither are prepared to be governed by the other, a single state solution would seem to be a recipe for disaster. To characterise that in a simplistic fashion as wanting a "jew free state" is dishonest and stinks of mud slinging.

Foghladh

Nodin wrote: »

However, I call into question the interpretation of what he stated.

Given the fact that side (a) and (b) have been at loggerheads for so long, and that neither are prepared to be governed by the other, a single state solution would seem to be a recipe for disaster. To characterise that in a simplistic fashion as wanting a "jew free state" is dishonest and stinks of mud slinging.

I did a little google search on the guy and it wouldn't appear to be a single misinterpretated statement. There was an interview with tabletmag.com last year where he was asked about this issue

When you imagine a future Palestinian state, do you imagine it being a place where Jews, if they wish to become Palestinian citizens, could own property, vote in elections, and practice their religion freely?
I remember in the mid-’90s, the late [PLO official] Faisal Husseini said repeatedly “OK, if Israelis choose to stay in a future Palestinian state, they are more than welcome to do that. But under one condition: They have to respect and obey Palestinian laws, they cannot be living as Israelis. They have to respect Palestinian laws and abide by them.” When Faisal Husseini died, basically no Palestinian leader has publicly supported the notion that they can stay.
What we are saying is the following: We need to separate. We have to separate. We are in a forced marriage. We need to divorce. After we divorce, and everybody takes a period of time to recoup, rebound, whatever you want to call it, we may consider dating again.
So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—
Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.
Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?
Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after.

It would appear to me that he has a pretty clear idea of what should happen, although he doesn't seem to view it as a permanent deal.

http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/48834/qa-maen-areikat/

Jaafa

Well in fairness probably 95% of all Jews in Palestine right now are settlers. Do you think they even want to stay in a new Palestinian state? What do you think would happen if they stayed?

anymore

Foghladh wrote: »

I did a little google search on the guy and it wouldn't appear to be a single misinterpretated statement. There was an interview with tabletmag.com last year where he was asked about this issue

When you imagine a future Palestinian state, do you imagine it being a place where Jews, if they wish to become Palestinian citizens, could own property, vote in elections, and practice their religion freely?
I remember in the mid-’90s, the late [PLO official] Faisal Husseini said repeatedly “OK, if Israelis choose to stay in a future Palestinian state, they are more than welcome to do that. But under one condition: They have to respect and obey Palestinian laws, they cannot be living as Israelis. They have to respect Palestinian laws and abide by them.” When Faisal Husseini died, basically no Palestinian leader has publicly supported the notion that they can stay.
What we are saying is the following: We need to separate. We have to separate. We are in a forced marriage. We need to divorce. After we divorce, and everybody takes a period of time to recoup, rebound, whatever you want to call it, we may consider dating again.
So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—
Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.
Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?
Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after.

It would appear to me that he has a pretty clear idea of what should happen, although he doesn't seem to view it as a permanent deal.

http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/48834/qa-maen-areikat/

So the difference between that State and the Apartheid State of South Africa would be that there wouldn't be any Jews left at all - it would in fact have more in common with the Third Reich - with the exception that the Jews would not be killed but obliged to leave the State?

anymore

Jaafa wrote: »

Well in fairness probably 95% of all Jews in Palestine right now are settlers. Do you think they even want to stay in a new Palestinian state? What do you think would happen if they stayed?

From what I understand some orthodox jews dont approve the existence of the State of Israel at all !

Jaafa

anymore wrote: »

From what I understand some orthodox jews dont approve the existence of the State of Israel at all !

Yes that is true. But how many of them would be in the west bank/Gaza?

Foghladh

Jaafa wrote: »

Well in fairness probably 95% of all Jews in Palestine right now are settlers. Do you think they even want to stay in a new Palestinian state? What do you think would happen if they stayed?

Well the question was in relation to jews that wished to become Palestinian citizens. I don't know what might happen. Forced expulsion on an indefinite temporary basis it would appear

Jaafa

Foghladh wrote: »

Well the question was in relation to jews that wished to become Palestinian citizens. I don't know what might happen. Forced expulsion on an indefinite temporary basis it would appear

My mistake. TBH I don't think he'd receive much support in that case. Any Jew that's been living in the west bank and Gaza in among Arabs and hasn't been scared away yet is likely pretty ok in the locals eyes. So I don't think they'd take too kindly to them being forced out anymore than if they were forced out.

Again though it has to be stressed that the numbers that would wish to stay are probably very very low.

Nodin

Foghladh wrote: »

I did a little google search on the guy and it wouldn't appear to be a single misinterpretated statement. There was an interview with tabletmag.com last year where he was asked about this issue

..................

...which is much as I laid it out in post 9. However labelling it as a "Jew free state" gives it connotations that it doesn't have. And of course thats what its being spun as below.......

anymore wrote:

So the difference between that State and the Apartheid State of South Africa would be that there wouldn't be any Jews left at all - it would in fact have more in common with the Third Reich - with the exception that the Jews would not be killed but obliged to leave the State?

Hysterical crap. I'm suprised its taken you that many posts to just throw out the "third reich" comparison.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

From what I understand some orthodox jews dont approve the existence of the State of Israel at all !

That doesn't answer his question.

To be more specific, lets imagine that some settlers do stay and accept Palestinian rule (a highly unlikely scenario). What do you think the response would be from Israel should some Al Qaeda style group commit an atrocity against same?

Foghladh

@Nodin

If you're quoting me in one part of a reply and then you insert another quote, I do wish you'd include the name of the other contributor.

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

That doesn't answer his question.

To be more specific, lets imagine that some settlers do stay and accept Palestinian rule (a highly unlikely scenario). What do you think the response would be from Israel should some Al Qaeda style group commit an atrocity against same?

Well you have never shown much respect for any positions I adopt on this qustion before - including on occassion telling me you reply to anymore of my posts, -so why dont you contact the israeli embassy and ask them ?

Memnoch

If there are settlers that are occupying palestinian land illegally then I don't see why it is wrong to ask them to leave.

Didn't the Israeli government recently pass a resolution to declare itself a 'Jewish,' state. They've been instituting measures to try and insure that the arabs don't conquer them by simply having more babies over a few decades.

Kind of like what has happened in Northern Ireland where over time the population balance has shifted.

I think the palestinians are being a little reactionary and ott on this issue, it's not like the Jewish settlers are going to beat the palestinians on demographics in their own country. But if you are talking about a genuine two state solution then I imagine most Jews would feel more welcome in Israel and vice versa.

FYI, the reason a one-state solution isn't viable is because Israel holds an intractable position against the repatriation of palestinian refuges, kind of ironic for a country built entirely on the idea of repatriation of a deposed peoples.

But most of the noise on this is blatant scare mongering to try and delegitimise the bid for Palestinian statehood. It's not half as clever an attempt as it tries to be and there's very little substance here. We aren't going to see another holocaust, once the international community ensures that all ILLEGAL settlers are repatriated (forcibly if necessary) to 1967 UN defined borders after the two states are formed.

After all, no one is calling for Israel to cease to exist on the basis of the systematic ethnic cleansing they've carried out over the past five decades or so... oh wait.

anymore

Memnoch wrote: »

If there are settlers that are occupying palestinian land illegally then I don't see why it is wrong to ask them to leave.

Didn't the Israeli government recently pass a resolution to declare itself a 'Jewish,' state. They've been instituting measures to try and insure that the arabs don't conquer them by simply having more babies over a few decades.

Kind of like what has happened in Northern Ireland where over time the population balance has shifted.

I think the palestinians are being a little reactionary and ott on this issue, it's not like the Jewish settlers are going to beat the palestinians on demographics in their own country. But if you are talking about a genuine two state solution then I imagine most Jews would feel more welcome in Israel and vice versa.

FYI, the reason a one-state solution isn't viable is because Israel holds an intractable position against the repatriation of palestinian refuges, kind of ironic for a country built entirely on the idea of repatriation of a deposed peoples.

But most of the noise on this is blatant scare mongering to try and delegitimise the bid for Palestinian statehood. It's not half as clever an attempt as it tries to be and there's very little substance here. We aren't going to see another holocaust, once the international community ensures that all ILLEGAL settlers are repatriated (forcibly if necessary) to 1967 UN defined borders after the two states are formed.

After all, no one is calling for Israel to cease to exist on the basis of the systematic ethnic cleansing they've carried out over the past five decades or so... oh wait.

How on earth could the UN or international community approve the forcible repatriation of naybody ?

Nodin

Foghladh wrote: »

@Nodin

If you're quoting me in one part of a reply and then you insert another quote, I do wish you'd include the name of the other contributor.

Soz, post amended.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

Well you have never shown much respect for any positions I adopt on this qustion before - including on occassion telling me you reply to anymore of my posts, -so why dont you contact the israeli embassy and ask them ?

Evasions and excuses. You're misrepresenting the position of one individual while refusing to deal with the nuances of the situation.

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

...which is much as I laid it out in post 9. However labelling it as a "Jew free state" gives it connotations that it doesn't have. And of course thats what its being spun as below.......



Hysterical crap. I'm suprised its taken you that many posts to just throw out the "third reich" comparison.

So how many different meanings could the expression ' Jew free State' have ?
For example could it mean ' Buy one and get another one Free ' as in marketing ads ?
Or possibly Jewish people will work for ' Free' ?
Or could it mean simply ' No Jewish people left in the State ' ?

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

So how many different meanings could the expression ' Jew free State' have ?
For example could it mean ' Buy one and get another one Free ' as in marketing ads ?
Or possibly Jewish people will work for ' Free' ?
Or could it mean simply ' No Jewish people left in the State ' ?

Where does he say "Jew free state"?

Nodin

And now -

Palestinian leaders say a future Palestinian state would be secular and open to all religions — even Jews — if they are willing to follow their laws as Palestinian citizens.

The Palestinians say they'll seek a vote on Palestinian statehood in the United Nations this month.
"The future Palestinian state will be open to all its citizens, regardless of their religion," Mahmoud Habbash, the Palestinian Authority's minister of religious affairs, said in Ramallah. "We want a civil state, which in it live all the faiths, Muslim, Christian and Jews also if they agree, (and) accept to be Palestinian citizens."

Habbash's comments come after the ambassador for the Palestine Liberation Organization to the United States, Maen Areikat, said when asked Tuesday whether he could foresee a Jew being elected mayor of Ramallah, the capital of the West Bank: "I personally still believe that as a first step we need to be totally separated, and we can contemplate these issues in the future

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-15/palestinians-foresee-secular-state/50419552/1

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

So how many different meanings could the expression ' Jew free State' have ?
For example could it mean ' Buy one and get another one Free ' as in marketing ads ?
Or possibly Jewish people will work for ' Free' ?
Or could it mean simply ' No Jewish people left in the State ' ?

You still haven't answered the questions put to you here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451573&postcount=11
or here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451969&postcount=18

Foghladh

Nodin wrote: »

Soz, post amended.

Many thanks!

Nodin

Foghladh wrote: »

Many thanks!

Np.

opinionated3

I am confused.....are us infidels from the West welcome in the new Palestine/hamas state or not?!

Foghladh

opinionated3 wrote: »

I am confused.....

Join the fecking club!

Nodin

opinionated3 wrote: »

I am confused.....are us infidels from the West welcome in the new Palestine/hamas state or not?!

Yes.


And this isn't Hamas we're discussing here.

Memnoch

anymore wrote: »

How on earth could the UN or international community approve the forcible repatriation of naybody ?

Actually, I think the IDF should be the ones to remove them, before they leave. Otherwise it should be UN peacekeepers. I'd rather not leave the job to the palestinian authorities because it's likely to lead to unnecessary bloodshed due to the animosity between the two groups.

Courts of law ask people who are illegally staying on someone else's property to be removed all the time. It's hardly earth shattering.

Matt Holck

opinionated3 wrote: »

I am confused.....are us infidels from the West welcome in the new Palestine/hamas state or not?!

this whole concept of theological government frightens me a little

KeithAFC

Would not surprise me if this happened. It seems some sacrifices are going to have to be made.

Matt Holck

I hope they don't obsessive over sacrifice

anymore

Memnoch wrote: »

Actually, I think the IDF should be the ones to remove them, before they leave. Otherwise it should be UN peacekeepers. I'd rather not leave the job to the palestinian authorities because it's likely to lead to unnecessary bloodshed due to the animosity between the two groups.

Courts of law ask people who are illegally staying on someone else's property to be removed all the time. It's hardly earth shattering.

So are you suggesting anyone who cannot prove good title to the property they are living in should be expelled from the country ?
Or is it just Jews ?
Andi what of Jewish people who have legitimate title to the properties they won and live in - Expel them too ?
Or maybe being Jewish is itself proof of lack of good title ?

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

So are you suggesting anyone who cannot prove good title to the property they are living in should be expelled from the country ?
Or is it just Jews ?
Andi what of Jewish people who have legitimate title to the properties they won and live in - Expel them too ?
Or maybe being Jewish is itself proof of lack of good title ?

More serial dishonesty. The settlers are illegal colonists, many of whom live in areas confiscated by the Israeli state, the others in areas aqquired under duress and dubious circumstances. Thats the reason they have to go, and nothing to do with their religion.

For somebody fond of asking questions, you don't seem to happy to answer them.....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451573&postcount=11
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451969&postcount=18

anymore

Nodin wrote: »

More serial dishonesty. The settlers are illegal colonists, many of whom live in areas confiscated by the Israeli state, the others in areas aqquired under duress and dubious circumstances. Thats the reason they have to go, and nothing to do with their religion.

For somebody fond of asking questions, you don't seem to happy to answer them.....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451573&postcount=11
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451969&postcount=18

I recall on some anti Israeli thread last year raising the question of any settlers who had actually legally purchased land from Palestinians and i believe the general reaction was that those Palestinians must be traitors.

I note again you resort to personal attacks .

Mahatma coat

if the Jewish Families Bought property Legally & Legitimitly from Palestinians They now Live in Palestine and would therefore be expected to observe Palestinian Laws, carry Palestinian Passports and Pay their Taxes to a Palestinian government, Palestine may decide to have a Rule like America where you can only have one citizenship meaning that the Settlers can keep their legally held Lands if they renounce their Israeli Citizenship and Embrace Palestine Fully.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

I recall on some anti Israeli thread last year raising the question of any settlers who had actually legally purchased land from Palestinians and i believe the general reaction was that those Palestinians must be traitors.

.

"legally"? The entire occupation is illegal.

You still haven't answered
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451573&postcount=11
or
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74451969&postcount=18

anymore

Mahatma coat wrote: »

if the Jewish Families Bought property Legally & Legitimitly from Palestinians They now Live in Palestine and would therefore be expected to observe Palestinian Laws, carry Palestinian Passports and Pay their Taxes to a Palestinian government, Palestine may decide to have a Rule like America where you can only have one citizenship meaning that the Settlers can keep their legally held Lands if they renounce their Israeli Citizenship and Embrace Palestine Fully.

It all beginning to sound so familiar. Conevert or.........

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

It all beginning to sound so familiar. Conevert or.........

More muck slinging.

cookies221

I hope Palestine is granted statehood and is a Jew-free state. At the moment Israel occupies the West Bank and Gaza so Jewish settlers have every right to live there. However should Palestine be gratned statehood, these settlers should be relocated to Israel proper. Likewise, all Arabs should be deported from Israel to the new Palestine.

Let's see how the Arabs like living in a third world country with no infrastructure and where women are treated like dogs. The will be crying out for Israel to re-occupy their sandpit.

Nodin

cookies221 wrote: »

I hope Palestine is granted statehood and is a Jew-free state. At the moment Israel occupies the West Bank and Gaza so Jewish settlers have every right to live there. .

Incorrect. The occupation is illegal, as are the settlements.

cookies221

So you're saying Jewish people are not welcome to live in Palestine/the occupied territories? Are they entitled to live in Ireland? Why not Palestine?

Nodin

cookies221 wrote: »

So you're saying Jewish people are not welcome to live in Palestine/the occupied territories?

No, I'm saying illegal colonists are (rather obvioosly) not welcome to live in the occupied territories.

cookies221

I'm not arguing about the occupation - call it illegal if you want. But Jewish people can't live in the West Bank? Sounds a bit apartheid-esque. A lot of Irish people don't want gypsies or Nigerians settling in Ireland, but they have the right to. Should all the Unionist settlers in Northern Ireland be sent "home" (wherever that is) ?

The Saint

cookies221 wrote: »

Let's see how the Arabs like living in a third world country with no infrastructure and where women are treated like dogs. The will be crying out for Israel to re-occupy their sandpit.

Wow, you really haven't a fcuking clue what you're talking about, do you?

cookies221

The Saint wrote: »

Wow, you really haven't a fcuking clue what you're talking about, do you?

Would you like to formulate some kind of argument rather than throwing around insults like a baboon? Do you disagree that Gaza is anything other than a shíthole. World's biggest refugee camp. I think I'd rather live in a developed country like Israel. The Jewish state really is a miracle. They've made the desert bloom.