148mpg? yes please

mossy2390

The new volvo v60 plug in hybrid, 2.4L diesel with a 69bhp electric motor that can be charged from mains giving a range of about 30 miles on the charge or when used in hybrid mode it can get up to 148mpg!! and all still getting to 60 in 6.9s
really is about time this came about, money should be pumping into this instead of the electric cars it certainly looks like the way forward
it will get around 2,200 miles to a tank, most people would only have to fill up around 4 times a year its some crazy stuff!!

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/volvo/2012-volvo-v60-plug-in-hybrid-ar104099.html

Berty

Although the CO2 will be low on the car meaning less VRT the actual cost of the car will still be high because of the dual engines.

Look at the Prius. It was hardly cheap when it was launched first even though a rather average Toyota and Volvos new range is far from cheap compared to the old S40, even the Bio-fuel S40 was not as cheap as you should expect.

Although comparable savings can be made if the 146mpg can be achieved, the actual investment in the car might be quite high.

Even so, if the investment cost is high the company car man over time will achieve major savings on a 3-4 year replacement contract.

Voodoomelon

They were saying in the Sunday Times that you should expect to pay €4000 more than the standard model as this is roughly the cost of the electric motor and battery. I verrrry much doubt it will cost that little more, more like twice that amount. Still, impressive stuff if verified.

kirving

mossy2390 wrote: »

.... money should be pumping into this instead of the electric cars it certainly looks like the way forward.....

Eh, it is an electric car, albeit with an engine. It's exactly the same technology.

Batteries are progressing an an amazing rate, give electric cars a few more years!

Anan1

I wonder is that 148mpg figure dependent on starting out with a full battery pack and ending with an empty one - in other words, nonsense?

mossy2390

well yes its 50k+ but its the kind of thing that if its developed properly in a couple of years time it will become cheaper

and yes it is electric i know but it was very difficult in the past to get a hybrid diesel to work and much more expensive to develop, its also a proper car with decent performance, and when you think about the cost of the fully electric cars there bloody expensive for what you get there crap little match boxes this is a big proper car with awesome range and practicably

Voodoomelon

Well its Volvo's own figures, no independent has tested it yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it manages little over 100MPG.

Anan1

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Well its Volvo's own figures, no independent has tested it yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it manages little over 100MPG.

Without a charge? I can't see how it could. Cars get their best mpg at a steady cruise, and a hybrid drivetrain adds nothing but weight under those conditions.

keithclancy

Anan1 wrote: »

Without a charge? I can't see how it could. Cars get their best mpg at a steady cruise, and a hybrid drivetrain adds nothing but weight under those conditions.

I posted this ages ago

Waiting for a test drive !!

mossy2390

keithclancy wrote: »

I posted this ages ago

Waiting for a test drive !!

my bad i looked but obviously not back far enough

dose look promising

squod

148 mpg at 27mph more than likely. The peugeot equivalent seems a more likely candidate for a family car replacement.

unkel

Anan1 wrote: »

I wonder is that 148mpg figure dependent on starting out with a full battery pack and ending with an empty one - in other words, nonsense?

I'd guess it is based on the car starting with a full battery and ending with an empty battery. For sure it flatters the figures and it would make the comparison with single fuel engines unfair, but I wouldn't call it nonsense.

Based on the reasonable assumption that the vehicle will be plugged in overnight evey night paying the very low night tariff electricity rates would massively subsidise the diesel (if any) the car needs on the trip(s) during the day

Anan1

unkel wrote: »

I'd guess it is based on the car starting with a full battery and ending with an empty battery. For sure it flatters the figures and it would make the comparison with single fuel engines unfair, but I wouldn't call it nonsense.

Based on the reasonable assumption that the vehicle will be plugged in overnight evey night paying the very low night tariff electricity rates would massively subsidise the diesel (if any) the car needs on the trip(s) during the day

But that's not miles per gallon!!

dlofnep

mossy2390 wrote: »

really is about time this came about, money should be pumping into this instead of the electric cars it certainly looks like the way forward

It's not the way forward - it's only a temporary measure, as fossil fuels are a finite source of fuel. As technology grows - electric cars will be the way forward. The Tesla Roadster can reach over 500km on a single charge - Expect that to double, if not quadruple in the next 10 years. Batteries will be more efficient, smaller - which means less weight.

unkel

Anan1 wrote: »

But that's not miles per gallon!!

Indeed it isn't and they should have explained their calculations.

That said, if the electricity + diesel costs of the car would be the equivalent of a diesel car doing 148MPG, then I do feel they have a legitimate claim to use that figure.

unkel

dlofnep wrote: »

The Tesla Roadster can reach over 500km on a single charge

If anyone drove it like a Lotus is supposed to be driven (say on a track), I doubt you'd get 20km out of a single charge, never mind 500km

Anan1

unkel wrote: »

Indeed it isn't and they should have explained their calculations.

That said, if the electricity + diesel costs of the car would be the equivalent of a diesel car doing 148MPG, then I do feel they have a legitimate claim to use that figure.

I have to say I disagree. They'd be perfectly entitled to say that their car can get up to the equivalent of 148mpg, for x number of miles, but saying that it can get 148mpg is just plain wrong. Mind, I can't see anywhere in the article that Volvo does claim 148mpg!:)

dlofnep

unkel wrote: »

If anyone drove it like a Lotus is supposed to be driven (say on a track), I doubt you'd get 20km out of a single charge, never mind 500km

It's a road car, not a track car. And if driven like a standard car, it will yield good results (120 mpg) with a 400km range driving normally.

We must be mindful that electric cars are still a work in progress, and everyone will inevitably have to migrate over to them within the next 20 years to reduce our carbon footprint, and for those who are not ecologically sound - because of the astronomical costs of fuel.

Tesla Roadster is a beautiful car in every possible manner. The only killer is the cost, but with time - electric cars with good looks and great performance will come down. 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. Not many high performance petrol cars can beat that.

unkel

Anan1 wrote: »

I have to say I disagree. They'd be perfectly entitled to say that their car can get up to the equivalent of 148mpg, for x number of miles, but saying that it can get 148mpg is just plain wrong. Mind, I can't see anywhere in the article that Volvo does claim 148mpg!:)

I only disagreed with you calling the figure nonsense

And imho Volvo are missing out on an opportunity here. A more focused marketing campaign showing that a 150MPG (yeah they would have to explain that too ) diesel-electric hybrid would save €1000 per year in fuel compared with an ordinary 50MPG diesel (based on 12k miles per year). And that the car would only cost €4000 more to purchase. It wouldn't take an economist, a mathematical genius or even an excel expert to figure out that would make financial sense

Merch

mossy2390 wrote: »

The new volvo v60 plug in hybrid, 2.4L diesel with a 69bhp electric motor that can be charged from mains giving a range of about 30 miles on the charge or when used in hybrid mode it can get up to 148mpg!! and all still getting to 60 in 6.9s
really is about time this came about, money should be pumping into this instead of the electric cars it certainly looks like the way forward
it will get around 2,200 miles to a tank, most people would only have to fill up around 4 times a year its some crazy stuff!!

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/volvo/2012-volvo-v60-plug-in-hybrid-ar104099.html

I wonder what the fuel economy or carbon output is in an equivalent measure when the electric motor is in use only/to consider the fact the electricity used to charge it are derived from fossil fuels, out of curiosity.

With the mileage I do now, I could run it on batteries alone nearly, I wonder what the cost would be to charge it? and how that would compare to diesel?

GTE

Anan1 wrote: »

But that's not miles per gallon!!

Someone in the US put a veg oil system into his diesel and he talks about what is in reality MPPG, or miles per purchased gallon. So, its the MPG of the diesel engine with the veg assisting it.

That system involved switching from diesel to veg oil so you only used diesel during warm up, so thats how he got his 3 figured MPG rating.

Sticking an electric motor into the mix makes no difference to me. If the car switches 100% from diesel to motor or the motor merely assists it the point is from how I read it is that its 148 miles per purchased gallon when you have the motor assist.

The grey area is whether the engine can recharge the batteries on the fly. I would have assumed that you would never normally need to put the car near a socket. None the less, with the motor getting power I think the MPG figure is valid if you factor in the miles per purchased gallon. The recharging and amount of charging one needs to do its something to ponder on though.

Take the motor out and Im sure you have an uninspiring diesel.

opinion guy

What I don't get about this car is why for a first hybrid diesel did they put a 2.4 220bhp diesel into it ?

Surely a lower spec - maybe a 2l 170bhp or so would give greater fuel efficiency ? (I guess depending on how heavy the thing is - if a 170bhp needs flooring all the time that might not be efficient).

But does it really need a combined 285bhp and 0-60 of 6.9 ??

keithclancy

opinion guy wrote: »

What I don't get about this car is why for a first hybrid diesel did they put a 2.4 220bhp diesel into it ?

Surely a lower spec - maybe a 2l 170bhp or so would give greater fuel efficiency ? (I guess depending on how heavy the thing is - if a 170bhp needs flooring all the time that might not be efficient).

But does it really need a combined 285bhp and 0-60 of 6.9 ??

Bigger the engine the better, just because the engine is capable of providing 285 bhp doesn't mean you're going to be constantly raping it.

I'm fairly confident that the MPG would be much lower as Diesels ues a rake of fuel accelerating (in traffic etc) if you eliminate that and all the idling you'd save a massive amount.

The only thing that would worry me is turning a diesel on and off constantly and operating at low temperatures without warming up.

R.O.R

opinion guy wrote: »

What I don't get about this car is why for a first hybrid diesel did they put a 2.4 220bhp diesel into it ?

Surely a lower spec - maybe a 2l 170bhp or so would give greater fuel efficiency ? (I guess depending on how heavy the thing is - if a 170bhp needs flooring all the time that might not be efficient).

But does it really need a combined 285bhp and 0-60 of 6.9 ??

The CO2 emissions on the manual V60 D5 (2.4d) are 2g less than the manual D3 (2.0d) engine, so I presume the fuel economy is slightly better (don't have the figures to hand). For the Auto version (and I presume the hybrid is auto) it is the other way around with a 5g difference, but that's not going to make a huge difference for fuel economy.

I'd say it's more to do with advertising and putting great fuel economy along with impressive power figures.

Do-more

There is a lot of development going on with battery technology that could possibly revolutionise how electric cars are powered.

MIT for example have announced a break through with semi solid flow batteries which have the charged particles suspended in a fluid so you will be able to pull into a filling station and suck out the discharged fluid and fill up with charged fluid so recharging will be almost as quick as filling up with petrol or diesel.

The batteries are also said to need only half of the physical space of comparable lithium-ion batteries and at half the cost.

There is other research on silicon anodes which could mean that lithium-ion batteries could hold 10 times the charge of present day one.

Give it 5 years and I would guess that the whole landscape of battery technology will have changed immensely and proper usable electric cars with be economically and practically viable.

opinion guy

Do-more wrote: »

MIT for example have announced a break through with semi solid flow batteries which have the charged particles suspended in a fluid so you will be able to pull into a filling station and suck out the discharged fluid and fill up with charged fluid so recharging will be almost as quick as filling up with petrol or diesel.

What the liquid ? If its super-acid I could see some problems

Hiace.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Well its Volvo's own figures, no independent has tested it yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it manages little over 100MPG.

I don't think you've taken into account air flow and the coefficient of variation (CV) in your calculations.

Sesshoumaru

Fully charged have a good review on this car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhZa3mlOI3w

opinion guy

Yeah so they confirm its 148mpg if you charge over night. Thats bull**** man.

Sesshoumaru

opinion guy wrote: »

Yeah so they confirm its 148mpg if you charge over night. Thats bull**** man.

It is a plug-in hybrid as opposed to a hybrid.

afatbollix

I think Ill be the first to put my name down for one of these..

About 98% of my journeys are less than 30 miles and it would be great for the engine to just flip over when I go for a longer journey.

Ill charge it at home every night Just like my iphone and if I charge during the night using the night rate it could be about 50c a night for my 30 miles.

As I live in the uk Ill pay near no tax and get a grant of 5k and free parking in the city.

GTE

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It is a plug-in hybrid as opposed to a hybrid.

So without having a place to look at that review, there is not enough, if any, onboard regeneration to keep the battery topped up under "normal" driving or to generate electricity for the motors?

Gettin there I suppose. Electric assisted diesel is something I have been wondering about, seemed to take a long time to pop up but if the above is correct its a bit off the mark still.

Sesshoumaru

bbk wrote: »

So without having a place to look at that review, there is not enough, if any, onboard regeneration to keep the battery topped up under "normal" driving or to generate electricity for the motors?

Gettin there I suppose. Electric assisted diesel is something I have been wondering about, seemed to take a long time to pop up but if the above is correct its a bit off the mark still.

According to the review the car won't allow the battery to go below 25%, so the electric motor is always ready to provide power if needed or you can switch to "pure" mode if entering a restricted EV only zone. There may have been more, I'll watch it again later.

opinion guy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It is a plug-in hybrid as opposed to a hybrid.

So ?
Quoting a figure of 148mpg is misleading when that is based upon nightly chargeups. Unless electricity is free where you come from ? you don't work for ESB do you ? What about the CO2 gone into generating the electricity ? Its not 148mpg of diesel. Its 148mpg of (diesel + the equivalent diesel costs of the nightly chargeup.)

Bull**** - they should not be allowed to quote that figure. Somebody needs to do some math and work out an adjusted mpg figure to take account for this.

Sesshoumaru

opinion guy wrote: »

So ?
Quoting a figure of 148mpg is misleading when that is based upon nightly chargeups. Unless electricity is free where you come from ? you don't work for ESB do you ? What about the CO2 gone into generating the electricity ? Its not 148mpg of diesel. Its 148mpg of (diesel + the equivalent diesel costs of the nightly chargeup.)

Bull**** - they should not be allowed to quote that figure. Somebody needs to do some math and work out an adjusted mpg figure to take account for this.

Well if they called it a hybrid it would be misleading. But its called a plug-in hybrid, clue is in the name I guess. I didn't raise or discuss anything related to your other questions.

http://www.bonkers.ie/compare-gas-electricity-prices/tariff/28-esb-electric-ireland-domestic-tariff

It has a 12kwh battery pack, so a basic calculation works out at 1 euro to charge it at night. That would be 0% to 100% not accounting for perhaps some loss due to heat etc. If you're driving it in hybrid mode all the time, you'll probably rarely spend more than 50 cent charging it at night.

R.O.R

Got some further information through from Volvo on this yesterday, but unfortunatley still no pricing.

It's being launched as a limited edition model this year, and Ireland will have limited supply. Should be widely available in 2013 though. First cars are being built in Autumn 2012 and will only be available in Electric Silver.

It's based on the SE LUX specification with additions including a special display for the eco driving statistics.

Full charge of the battery will take 6-8 hours at 6 amp, 4-5 hours at 10 amp and 3-4 hours at 16 amp. Battery power alone will be good for up to 50km.

Slowing and braking will add charge back in to the battery and there is an option to "save for later" where the car will ensure there is enough power for up to 20km of pure electric driving. If needs be, this will use the engine to power the generator to charge the battery.

Even though it only has a 45 litre fuel tank, it should be good for 1,200km between fill ups, based on driving like a granny with a full battery from the get go. It's unlikely to ever get near the 1.9L/100km claimed figures in day to day use, but should be 15% more effecient than a FWD D5 V60.

Power output figures should not be claimed as 285ps and 640nm of torque as peak output of the Diesel and Electric motors are at different points, so you'll never have all the max power/torque available.

The comparative figures to the competition seem to stack up very well, but it all depends on the price. Even with 14% VRT, I can't see it coming in at any less than a D5 SE LUX (currently lists at €47,065) as that is only 16% VRT.