Am I screwed? Irish as a subject

Zephyr91

..bear with me. I am in second year now btw before I begin.

I did Irish for the LC - I did honours and got a D2. My irish isn't the best. I didn't go to an Irish speaking school, and never really had great Irish teachers in secondary but I stuck to honours Irish because I wanted to do teaching in Pats - however because I didn't get a C3, I didn't get this place, and instead I am doing Arts in UCD.

For one of my main subjects I picked...yep you guessed it, Irish. My teacher kind of convinced me to pick Irish because as I still want to be a primary teacher, it would save me from having to repeat LC Irish.

So I did Irish in first year...I did 4 Irish modules over the space of the year. Two in particular were quite hard. I am not fluent in Irish at all. I could barely understand any of my Irish lecturers. I somehow managed to pass all 4. (I got a D in each one). I was happy because I didn't really care about my first year grades too much because it doesn't affect my GPA. I just wanted to pass them - which I did.

But now that I'm in second year, it's different. I want to do well. I am doing a joint hononours - Irish being one of my subjects. I spread it out so that I'm doing 2 Irish modules in semester 1 (to ease myself into it), and 3 in semester 2. So i've been to some of my Irish lectures this week and it is so hard. I am taking notes (barely..mostly anything that the lecturer writes down on the board) but I find it so hard to understand what the lecturers are saying. Aural was always my weak point. I'm not bad at talking Irish, and am not the worst at writing it (although believe me I am far from the best) - but when it comes to hearing and understanding Irish when it's being spoken so fast I freeze.

Last year I never missed a lecture but could barely understand them anyway so it made no difference. But I don't want to be struggling over the next 2 years like I did in 1st year. I feel like I've made a horrible mistake by picking Irish as a main subject. Is there anything I could do to help me? I'd feel too stupid asking the lecturers at the end of each lecture to explain what their lecture was about...and plus I don't think they'd entertain me. Why should they? It's an Irish module - of course I should understand it. Everyone else seems to be fluent and I am really depressed about it. I want to do well in Irish and would love to become fluent but I don't see it happening.

Was picking Irish as a main subject (and continuing it on in second year) the worst thing I could have done?

Wolfe Tone

Join the Irish society (I presume there is one in UCD) and speak the language as much as possible would be my advice.

Zephyr91

This might sound stupid but if I joined and attempted to speak Irish to others I'd feel like they were mentally taking note of the numerous mistakes I make and that they'd be thinking "w...t...f?!". That might sound like I'm just being paranoid / insecure - but it's true.

Thanks for the advice though - I think I will make an effort to join and go to the meetings.

Wolfe Tone

Zephyr91 wrote: »

This might sound stupid but if I joined and attempted to speak Irish to others I'd feel like they were mentally taking note of the numerous mistakes I make and that they'd be thinking "w...t...f?!". That might sound like I'm just being paranoid / insecure - but it's true.

Thanks for the advice though - I think I will make an effort to join and go to the meetings.

Ah I know how you feel, but really there will be loads like you and they would encourage and help you.

The best way to learn it is to speak it imo.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Zephyr91 wrote: »

..bear with me. I am in second year now btw before I begin.

I did Irish for the LC - I did honours and got a D2. My irish isn't the best. I didn't go to an Irish speaking school, and never really had great Irish teachers in secondary but I stuck to honours Irish because I wanted to do teaching in Pats - however because I didn't get a C3, I didn't get this place, and instead I am doing Arts in UCD.

For one of my main subjects I picked...yep you guessed it, Irish. My teacher kind of convinced me to pick Irish because as I still want to be a primary teacher, it would save me from having to repeat LC Irish.

So I did Irish in first year...I did 4 Irish modules over the space of the year. Two in particular were quite hard. I am not fluent in Irish at all. I could barely understand any of my Irish lecturers. I somehow managed to pass all 4. (I got a D in each one). I was happy because I didn't really care about my first year grades too much because it doesn't affect my GPA. I just wanted to pass them - which I did.

But now that I'm in second year, it's different. I want to do well. I am doing a joint hononours - Irish being one of my subjects. I spread it out so that I'm doing 2 Irish modules in semester 1 (to ease myself into it), and 3 in semester 2. So i've been to some of my Irish lectures this week and it is so hard. I am taking notes (barely..mostly anything that the lecturer writes down on the board) but I find it so hard to understand what the lecturers are saying. Aural was always my weak point. I'm not bad at talking Irish, and am not the worst at writing it (although believe me I am far from the best) - but when it comes to hearing and understanding Irish when it's being spoken so fast I freeze.

Last year I never missed a lecture but could barely understand them anyway so it made no difference. But I don't want to be struggling over the next 2 years like I did in 1st year. I feel like I've made a horrible mistake by picking Irish as a main subject. Is there anything I could do to help me? I'd feel too stupid asking the lecturers at the end of each lecture to explain what their lecture was about...and plus I don't think they'd entertain me. Why should they? It's an Irish module - of course I should understand it. Everyone else seems to be fluent and I am really depressed about it. I want to do well in Irish and would love to become fluent but I don't see it happening.

Was picking Irish as a main subject (and continuing it on in second year) the worst thing I could have done?

My advice would *generally* be that you should do that which you have an interest in.

If you want academic advice you should speak to your programme office - it might seem a bit daunting at this time of year because ofthe long queues and the fact that it only opens in the morning (monday, tuesday, thursday and friday) and only in the afternoon (wednesday) - but discussing your arts progression now, rather than later in the semester, would give you far more options.

Remember that your capacity to teach (if that is what you choose to do) will also be predicated on your degree (i.e. GPA). Although you mightn't relish the prospects, repeating LC Irish (a single written exam + oral) might ultimately be less stressful than joint honours Irish (at least 10 exams, not to mention the coursework). Either way you will have to do the H-DIP after the BA if you want to teach.

There may be the possibility for you to pursue one of your other first year subjects in lieu of the Irish, but as I said, this would be something to discuss with your programme office

sealgaire

That's a common issue people have. Truth is that most people will help you. Some won't, true of any language .. .

best of luck though

Zephyr91 wrote: »

This might sound stupid but if I joined and attempted to speak Irish to others I'd feel like they were mentally taking note of the numerous mistakes I make and that they'd be thinking "w...t...f?!". That might sound like I'm just being paranoid / insecure - but it's true.

Thanks for the advice though - I think I will make an effort to join and go to the meetings.

Rosita

Zephyr91 wrote: »

Was picking Irish as a main subject (and continuing it on in second year) the worst thing I could have done?

Quite likely it was a bad idea.

It you still intend to pursue Primary teaching through a post-grad or something then, as you were advised, you have achieved the basic requirement in Irish at least.

But if your level of Irish is not good then you will find the rest of your degree a struggle and inevitably end up with a mediocre mark which will have implications for you in other respects. It is grand for people to talk about joining societies and all the rest to practise Irish but not everyone has the time/inclination to maintain this. And there is the risk of finding again that everyone is more capable than yourself and that they are not terribly effective unless you are at a certain level. Progess - and I say this as an Irish graduate of UCD - is slow and laborious and improvement does not come easily or quickly.

Odd as it might seem, not understanding the lecturers' every word is not the end of the world (it is still good to be exposed to really good speakers) as you can catch up hugely through study/reading but if you are struggling with grammar you will be hammered in assignments and exams because of it (and this is not, despite what some people think, exclusive to Irish by any means - try littering an English essay or conversation with unconventional grammar and watch the reaction).

You haven't made it clear why you picked Irish as your main subject despite finding it a struggle and passing it only by getting D grades. But going on what you have written here I would say you really need to consider an alternative subject which hopefully you might be able to change to at this early stage. You will get an Irish degree by working hard but getting the necessary improvement to get a good degree in the subject or being able to enjoy it rather than finding it tortuous is another matter and needs to be considered.

I do know someone from my own time who was in a similar boat to yourself grade-wise in year one and year two and ended up with a high 2.2 in the subject in third year, which isn't bad, but he got a very high first in his other subject and arguably conceded the possibility of a double-first by sticking with Irish. Then again there's not much point in having a brilliant grade in a subject you don't particularly want to do either!

The question you really need to ask yourself and answer honestly is 'Can you improve enough in 20 months to come out with a really good mark - the kind of mark that you might achieve far more easily in an alternative subject?'

And more importantly what would be your process for effecting the improvement?

Zephyr91

A kind member PMed me and recommended that I speak to Kathleen Clune tomorrow about my situation so I'm going to do that. I am hoping that she can advise me on what I can do. Also, I just signed up for Irish classes with Board na Gaeilge - they're on Tuesday evenings in UCD so I'm hoping that by going to them, my Irish will improve. They're free as well.

The reason I picked Irish (besides not getting the C3 in honours for the LC) is because I WANT to become better at it. I want to become fluent. I like the language. And when I'm a primary teacher, I want to be good at teaching Irish to my students so that they don't ever end up in the situation that I'm in now.

My secondary school (and primary school) were not very good RE teaching Irish. In the whole year (80 students) - only three of us did honours Irish. I was one of them. The highest mark one of us got in honours Irish was a C3.

I can't pick an alternate subject. In first year I did 4 English modules, 4 Irish modules, 1 history module and 3 psychology modules. And I can't take psychology as a subject in second year so English and Irish are my only choices.

As for essays...I'm actually not too bad with them. For a 500 word Forbairt na Gaeilge essay I got a B. And for one of my scribhneoireacht essays I got a B-. I research writing the essay, get books from the library, write my essay in English first and then translate it line by line which isn't too bad. I have a lot of time to work on the essays which is grand. However, one of my friends (who has excellent Irish) fixed up my grammar a bit for me in my Scribhneoireacht essay so without her I probably would have gotten a C or something. It's the exams that bring me down to barely passing the module. Obviously I'm on my own in an exam, I'm panicking, and as I can't understand the lectures they're no use in helping me pass the exam, and I end up doing really badly in them. And unfortunately, all my Irish modules seem to have exams worth half the grade, etc.

Rosita

Sorry, I assumed when you asked "was picking Irish as a main subject (and continuing it on in second year) the worst thing I could have done?" that there was an alternative.

All you can do is get the head down. Presumably all Kathleen Clune will advise you to do is attend extra classes etc., I'm not sure what contacting her will achieve if you are locked into the course anyway. I did a bit of the extra classes in my time and found that they were worthless - teachers just giving handouts of vocabulary and the rest.

If you had the money for one to one grinds with a teacher who could address your specific problems it would help far more. And maybe look to work as a Ceannaire in the Gaeltacht next Summer to give you real exposure to the language all the time would surely help.

Zephyr91

Well I was having a panic attack at 1 in the morning when I wrote / posted the thread (worrying about how I was gonna survive the next 2 years in Irish) - I know there's no quick-fix solution but sometimes I find writing about a problem calms me down.

I bought a verb book today and started going through it, and also a grammar book. I'm just gonna try my best. I wish Teanga was in this semester though. I don't understand why they put the module that's meant to help improve your Irish / grammar in semester 2 and not semester 1. (although I figure it's to do with the gaeltacht).

How much do you reckon grinds would cost? I'm not loaded but I have a part time job and I wouldn't mind cutting back on my social life / spending money if it meant getting a good Irish degree! I'll look around a bit.

conor.hogan.2

Talk to the people in the department, they are very nice people.

Also BNAG offered free classes when I was doing irish there in 2008/9, so that might be a good place to look into.