Economical 2WD / 4WD motor

Frisbees

Hello everyone.

I have a pain in my neck looking at used cars so I'm here seeking advice.

From early next year I will move to Wicklow but continue to work in Dublin (about a 150kms round trip per day).

It's a few miles off the N11 so I'm concerned about a few things:

I want good fuel economy and something that can get through the snow (if it comes back) under a budget of €7000.

I have been looking at full time 4WD jeeps and estates but the fuel economy doesn't seem to be the best.

What I want to know is do I really need an AWD 2.0+ diesel?

Please help.
What I want to know is

barura

2WD and winter tyres should have you covered for the snow. Just driving sensibly is more necessary than 4WD.

For everything else, there is the bangernomics thread.

I've heard good stuff from the Ford Focus for reliability. Economy? Basically any recent diesel if you're doing high enough milage (which you seem to be doing)

Do you need an AWD 2litre+ car? no. I saw a Citroen picasso skip over the snow last year with its FWD.

lomb

Get an Audi quattro diesel. I saw one advertised with a 1.9tdi on an A4 on donedeal recently. That should combine very good economy with great traction and pleasure. Jeeps arent great fun to drive and generally eat the fuel . The haldex 4wd version in the quattro doesnt kick in unless the car is accelerating or wheels slipping so that keeps the fuel use low.
Alternatives are Subaru Legacy AWD which also offer great grip levels.

Pyridine

Not everyones cup of tea but might suit your needs.

opinion guy

lomb wrote: »

Get an Audi quattro diesel. I saw one advertised with a 1.9tdi on an A4 on donedeal recently. That should combine very good economy with great traction and pleasure. Jeeps arent great fun to drive and generally eat the fuel . The haldex 4wd version in the quattro doesnt kick in unless the car is accelerating or wheels slipping so that keeps the fuel use low.
Alternatives are Subaru Legacy AWD which also offer great grip levels.

Largely agree with this Audi Quattro is the way to go if you can find a good one althought just to point out they are an AWD system so they are in use the whole time. Also larger Audi's A4 and up tend to use the Torsen system whilst A3, TT use haldex

Frisbees

Not so much on the Audi myself.

I had one before and nothing but electrical problems.

Does anyone know of other cars besides the Fiat Sedici which is 2.0 non turbo diesel with 2WD / 4WD option? (available in Ireland)

cabrwab

Nissan Xtrail?

a little over engine and budget http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2347533

lomb

opinion guy wrote: »

Largely agree with this Audi Quattro is the way to go if you can find a good one althought just to point out they are an AWD system so they are in use the whole time. Also larger Audi's A4 and up tend to use the Torsen system whilst A3, TT use haldex

HeHe its the quattro,with a small q apparantly(thanks wikipedia) the word Quattro is relegated to the original 80s machine.
Im sure your right on the Torsens versus the haldex ,I know my TT has the haldex and someone did some studies on haldexs, and its engaged whenever the accelerator is pinned past a certain point ,basically whenever the car is not cruising so its a part time 4wd system.

lomb

Frisbees wrote: »

Not so much on the Audi myself.

I had one before and nothing but electrical problems.

Does anyone know of other cars besides the Fiat Sedici which is 2.0 non turbo diesel with 2WD / 4WD option? (available in Ireland)

My mates never had a days bother on a 03 A6 2.5tdi that was bought 4 years ago with 150000 miles and sold recently with 250000 miles. I think around 2002/ 2003 was a good period for VAG. Before this and there were problems, after and again they had problems.

Frisbees

I really don't want to go above 2.0 coz of the tax.
The mileage I'll be doing means I want the car to get at least 20km /L so this kinda excludes AWD with my kind of budget and non trubo is fine for me...I have a heavy foot anyway.
I'm a monster fan of estates, think everyone should have one.
Love the Jag X type estate but the missus hates the fake wallnut.
Any idea of the fuel ecomony on a 06ish Passat / Mondeo / Octavia

Del2005

Frisbees wrote: »

I really don't want to go above 2.0 coz of the tax.
The mileage I'll be doing means I want the car to get at least 20km /L so this kinda excludes AWD with my kind of budget and non trubo is fine for me...I have a heavy foot anyway.
I'm a monster fan of estates, think everyone should have one.
Love the Jag X type estate but the missus hates the fake wallnut.
Any idea of the fuel ecomony on a 06ish Passat / Mondeo / Octavia

Why not stick with your current car, most of the time you'll manage in a FWD car with Winter tyres. Then buy a cheap Jimmy, stick proper M&S tyres onto it and tax it for 3 months over winter.

Frisbees

My current car is a 1.4 petrol 02 focus estate.
It's in great condition and I have it well maintained.
For the distance I will travel the fuel economy will end up costing me extra €€€ per month.
I have no choice but to change.
The question is what to buy...what to buy??

barura

Sit down and figure out EXACTLY how much the focus costs you, then run the numbers on a new car against that. Take into account insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. Also! Newer diesels are a little more complicated than your nice 1.4 litre petrol engine.


Failing my advice, if you want to change to diesel for you own reasons, just do it. Having said that, you're not changing til early next year so you won't need to consider the problems of needing AWD, I wouldn't think the weather will still be bad at that stage.

Frisbees

I'm an engineer. I constantly zero my clock and monitor my fuel economy every time I get petrol. The 1.4 petrol is not the car for the job.

650Ginge

I can't agree more with the post that says to get you figures straight. I can't see how selling your car and buying another isn't going to mean you handing over a few k. How long will it take to get that back? Likely never. Winter tyres and snow socks will get you out of everything, if you have any idea how to drive in snow at all.

I have an E200 estate last year, everyone was saying rwd was rubbish in the snow and auto was rubbish in the snow. I got up to Tara not a bother at all.

If you want a new car fine but I doubt it will make financial or practical sense.

barura

Frisbees wrote: »

I'm an engineer. I constantly zero my clock and monitor my fuel economy every time I get petrol. The 1.4 petrol is not the car for the job.

If you think so, but if your clutch is slipping that would affect fuel economy. Fix that, see how far it gets you. A lot better to spend 300eur on a clutch than 7k on a car that you might crash (heaven forbid) in the winter.

Foxhole Norman

A6:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2516567

TT:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2519469

Frisbees

OK... thanks for the advice.
A car that does 8km / L will cost more to run than a car that does 28km / L.
the more distance you travel the more bigger the difference in cost.
Them's the facts. My 1.4 estate is not the car for this job.

barura

I hope your car isn't doing 8km a litre!

Frisbees

as many old cars only do between 8 - 12 .....yes is the answer.
Thanks for your advice..
Anyone else?

barura

That is immensely poor economy. That means you're getting 80km for ten litres.

20eur of petrol at 1.50eur would get you only 70 miles? I'm sure that would be your clutch not allowing power get to the wheels properly. even if it is a heavy car. That's barley 20mpg if you're getting 8km a litre.

Sorry for not being helpful enough.

bazz26

Old model Hyundai Santa Fe might fit the bill:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201136204380243

Fishtits

There's an awful lot of rubbish being posted here - with the best of intentions no doubt...

4WD "saloon" type cars are fine but they have minimal ground clearance vs "real" 4x4s, so will suffer in heavy snow. I know... I drove one last winter, with a shovel on board.

OP, check out the '05 ish Kia Sorrento.

If you want the ultimate in 4x4 economy, go back to the 200 TDI Discovery, the only one on the planet that actually was capable of 40 MPG.

Your other option is to find a cheap 4x4 and tax/use it only for the winter months.

Frisbees

Thanks for bringing things back on track Fishtits.

opinion guy

Fishtits wrote: »

There's an awful lot of rubbish being posted here - with the best of intentions no doubt...

4WD "saloon" type cars are fine but they have minimal ground clearance vs "real" 4x4s, so will suffer in heavy snow. I know... I drove one last winter, with a shovel on board.

OP, check out the '05 ish Kia Sorrento.

If you want the ultimate in 4x4 economy, go back to the 200 TDI Discovery, the only one on the planet that actually was capable of 40 MPG.

Your other option is to find a cheap 4x4 and tax/use it only for the winter months.

Audi A4 or A6 Allroad has a raisable suspension which AFAIK matches the ground clearance of an SUV

650Ginge

This whole thread is rubbish to be honest. An engineer who drives a car with a slipping clutch who obviously can't work out mpg or the 1.4 focus is a heap, not well maintained as described.

Why ask for advice then say it's wrong?

krissovo

barura wrote: »

2WD and winter tyres should have you covered for the snow. Just driving sensibly is more necessary than 4WD.

For everything else, there is the bangernomics thread.

I've heard good stuff from the Ford Focus for reliability. Economy? Basically any recent diesel if you're doing high enough milage (which you seem to be doing)

Do you need an AWD 2litre+ car? no. I saw a Citroen picasso skip over the snow last year with its FWD.

This really is the answer! Anything else is a bit of a overkill for a few days snow and even if you need to move around in snow then chains would get you out of trouble. Take Austria, Germany, Switzerland etc etc, they have snow for 3 months a year and you will rarely see a 4x4. They have winter tyres and chains for when they are stuck.

Buying a 4x4 for purely the weather is a bit a waste IMO, if you fancy a 4x4 thats a different story.

coolbeans

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You don't need a 4x4 or AWD, you need winter tyres.

Frisbees

I'm more into the fuel economy over anything else.
It's the distance covered and highway driving that makes me think I need 2.0 diesel FWD.
The question then is which FWD to choose? I don't need a family car so I could go for a focus over a mondeo for example. I'm basically looking for advice from people that do these distances, how much fuel they use and how their FWD's drove in the ice n' snow.

Traditional

your car wont stand up to much up an down the hills or on ice, ok in the city great economy etc, in my job i could not drive my van last year with the snow , lucky enough i had bought a Subaru Forester 30 to 36 mpg , it took me every where in the snow , look around at what everybody else drives in Wicklow .
all the Subaru range come in four wheel drive .
you will also need higher clearance or you exhaust pipe on a Audi will be pulled off in Wicklow.

Frisbees

this thread is indeed rubbish 650Ginge, thanks.

My 1.4 does have crap mileage alright but so do most old cars.

coolbeans

Frisbees wrote: »

this thread is indeed rubbish 650Ginge, thanks.

My 1.4 does have crap mileage alright but so do most old cars.

OP, do you actually know what mileage you're getting from your Focus or are you just saying it's crap? I get a regular 40mpg in my 1999 model with 150,000 on the clock. I know yours is the estate but I can't see how it would differ significantly.

Lex Luthor

has this been mentioned yet?

Honda HR-V

lomb

Frisbees wrote: »

this thread is indeed rubbish 650Ginge, thanks.

My 1.4 does have crap mileage alright but so do most old cars.

Thats untrue, I get more than 40mpg from an 03 golf, a new one might get 45 despite what the manufacturers say. To save 200 euros a year Im not going to waste the best part of 22 grand tbh. More maintainance issues on newer cars once the warranty is out too.

C4Kid

lomb wrote: »

Thats untrue, I get more than 40mpg from an 03 golf, a new one might get 45 despite what the manufacturers say.

Same here but that said, I've a very light foot. On the N roads at max I'll get up to about 55MPH after that economy suffers big time to the point for a few less MPH I'd prefer to get to the destination later with less fuel burned.

Slig

OP I drive from Roscommon to Dublin and back every week (about twice your commute) A couple of months ago I did it in a nissan terrano 2.7l diesel. It was default rwd and I was getting 32mpg. I now drive a 2l petrol peugeot 406 coupe fwd and get 37mpg, marginally better economy but a much nicer drive.

From my own experience I wouldnt reccomend a 4x4 for your commute. In the good weather they are slower and more uncomfortable than a car especially over a long journey. In the snow they are grand but so is a car, in the ice they give you a false sense of security.

TBH if its too slippy to bring a car out the drive then your better staying at home especially if your travelling on a stretch of road like the N11.

My advice would be to go for a diesel saloon/estate thats comfortable to drive as the long drive in an uncomfortable car will do your head in alot sooner than a couple of days of snow. Take a test drive in a diesel mondeo, peugeot 406 or opel vectra (There is a reason reps use them:D) Avoid anything with VAG badge as they are massively expensive, personally, I think it has more to do with high demand than their quality.

shamwari

Was mentioned earlier about the Fiat Sedici. They have an excellent 2WD / 4WD system and most of the mechanicals are Japanese and quite good. The engine is a Fiat and their diesel motor in this car is quite good, if a little rowdy at tickover.

You could buy the Suzuki SX4 which is the exact same car (even assembled on the same line side by side in Hungary), but the Jap badge commands an unjustifiable premium over the Italian one.

I saw a clean looking 2007 commercial Sedici on Done Deal for small enough money.

krissovo

lomb wrote: »

Thats untrue, I get more than 40mpg from an 03 golf, a new one might get 45 despite what the manufacturers say. To save 200 euros a year Im not going to waste the best part of 22 grand tbh. More maintainance issues on newer cars once the warranty is out too.

You must drive like a saint to get that, my 06 golf is lucky to get 38mpg. That was from new as well, if I drive VERY carefully on the motorway I can just break 40.

lomb

krissovo wrote: »

You must drive like a saint to get that, my 06 golf is lucky to get 38mpg. That was from new as well, if I drive VERY carefully on the motorway I can just break 40.

I think the MKV is heavier though than the 4. Maybe my computer is wrong but I dont think so. Tbh in town and accelerating I drive it like I stole it which I have to as its a 1.4 with 75bhp. Il do the brim to empty test and see what I get on the next tank.

Frisbees

I like the look,fuel ecomony and price of the 407 1.6 - 2.0 diesel estate but I've heard they can be a little constant and costly on the maintenance.

I have looked at the Sedici a few times but 10k is too high Commerical isn't an option. I need nore two seats on weekends.

Slig

Frisbees wrote: »

I like the look,fuel ecomony and price of the 407 1.6 - 2.0 diesel estate but I've heard they can be a little constant and costly on the maintenance.

I have looked at the Sedici a few times but 10k is too high Commerical isn't an option. I need nore two seats on weekends.

Anything thats gone wrong with my peugeot has been sorted by a few calls to the scrappers, the ABS ring that went on the drivers side demands a full driveshaft which is €375+vat from peugeot but I paid €75 for a good condition second hand from a breakers in Tullamore and the 406 coupe is a very rare car.

Any car can break down, even vehicles from the VAG group:eek: so why pay the massive premium. Personally I find french cars extremely comfortable but until now have stayed away from them because of the reiability factor. I paid small money for the car so that even if the engine falls out it wont be a complete disaster

Frisbees

Thanks for all the info everyone.
Has anyone driven a 407 estate in the snow?

Del2005

Frisbees wrote: »

Thanks for all the info everyone.
Has anyone driven a 407 estate in the snow?

If you put winter tyres on and carry chains you'll be fine in most FWD cars.

And with a big estate you can carry an air bed and sleeping bag if you get stuck;)

opinion guy

Del2005 wrote: »

If you put winter tyres on and carry chains you'll be fine in most FWD cars.

And with a big estate you can carry an air bed and sleeping bag if you get stuck;)

Lol....and a shovel, 3 weeks supply of food and water, a generator, skis, rope, flare gun, propane stove, hunting gear, fishing gear...........we're prepping him for Alaskan survival trip right ?!?

pburns

OK - I drove a Subaru Legacy (AWD), Pathfinder (4wd) and Mazda 3 and Auris during the big freeze.

It's ALL about the tyres!

The Legacy was on the worst tyres possible - asymmetrical Goodyear F1s. I could get up inclines the FWD cars struggled on but other than that, above 5mph, there wasn't much difference. In fact the skinny conventional, poverty spec tyres of the FWD cars were probably grippier.

The off-road tyres of the Pathfinder were good but obviously not meant for snow. High center of gravity however means that I'd feel safer in a car if it did lose grip!

FWD with winter tyres should be fine unless you live up the mountains. Money no-object, Subaru Outback or Audi Allroad would be the cars to have.

BTW I have 3 good friends who bought 407s and got badly stung. One got badly stung and sold the car after 5 months. Another has the car a couple of years but can't wait to get rid. Both say never again. The other guy always bought new Peugeots and thinks all cars give constant niggly problems! All constant DMF and electrical problems, clutch also.