Dublin West By-Election...

HellFireClub

Well Fianna Fail are determined to give us more of the same rubbish, putting a career county councillor forward for election.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/25yearold-councillor-to-defend-lenihans-dail-seat-2875753.html

I personally believe that this is the very last thing we need, another career politician with notions of promotion in his head. Any chance someone with job creation experience could be found to go forward, as opposed to someone who has spent their entire career waffling in a council chamber???

:mad::mad::mad:

donkey balls

Ah now no need for that sure he is a school teacher and would fit in fine in Leinster house:rolleyes: FF didn't even get a vote off me during the election and this wannabe hasnt a hope of winning the seat,One question I will ask him though if FF have the balls to knock at my door is if he was elected would he stand down from his teaching position,Or would he hold on to it like many other TD as a safety net roll on the 26th.

HellFireClub

donkey balls wrote: »

Ah now no need for that sure he is a school teacher and would fit in fine in Leinster house:rolleyes: FF didn't even get a vote off me during the election and this wannabe hasnt a hope of winning the seat,One question I will ask him though if FF have the balls to knock at my door is if he was elected would he stand down from his teaching position,Or would he hold on to it like many other TD as a safety net roll on the 26th.

A Teacher, Jesus it just get's worse.

bijapos

HellFireClub wrote: »

Well Fianna Fail are determined to give us more of the same rubbish, putting a career county councillor forward for election.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/25yearold-councillor-to-defend-lenihans-dail-seat-2875753.html

I personally believe that this is the very last thing we need, another career politician with notions of promotion in his head. Any chance someone with job creation experience could be found to go forward, as opposed to someone who has spent their entire career waffling in a council chamber???

:mad::mad::mad:

Seems the probable candidates for FG, Labour and Socialists are all sitting councillors as well, so no big difference in any of them.

HellFireClub

bijapos wrote: »

Seems the probable candidates for FG, Labour and Socialists are all sitting councillors as well, so no big difference in any of them.

More of the same so. More career wafflers who in all reality have absolutely nothing whasoever to contribute to the national recovery that hasn't even started yet because we have a legislature that is stuffed full of teachers and career failures.

ArmaniJeanss

HellFireClub wrote: »

Well Fianna Fail are determined to give us more of the same rubbish, putting a career county councillor forward for election.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/25yearold-councillor-to-defend-lenihans-dail-seat-2875753.html

I personally believe that this is the very last thing we need, another career politician with notions of promotion in his head. Any chance someone with job creation experience could be found to go forward, as opposed to someone who has spent their entire career waffling in a council chamber???

:mad::mad::mad:

In fairness to FF (!!) it was either a) put forward a local candidate who has been a previous candidate in general elections b) convince one of Brian Lenihans siblings to run or c) parachute in a candidate from outside Dublin West.

Option a) would seem the best, one can only imagine that they would get even more abuse from the people if they had gone for b) or c).

On the grounds that they don't have a snowballs chance of winning anyway it hardly betters whether he is a teacher or an astronaut.

There are so many far more interesting things to talk about in this by-election than the FF candidate.
*****
Where will Brian Lenihans 6400 votes go, on the grounds that this largely leafy Castleknock based vote won't be going to rundown Corduff based McGuiness?

Just how much hardcore campaigning will the Joan Burton wing of Labour do for the Labour candidate, especially if its her less than friendly colleague Padraig Nulty. Will she really want the two of them defending seats in 2016.

Is the Labour vote really in freefall?

Can FG's Dennison become the first government candidate to win a byelection in about 20 years?

Will SF, who've never thrown resources into an election here because of Joe Higgin's presence make a serious attempt at winning?

Could Ruth Coppinger take it to give the SP/ULA two seats in a constituency.

mikemac

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I
Just how much hardcore campaigning will the Joan Burton wing of Labour do for the Labour candidate, especially if its her less than friendly colleague Padraig Nulty. Will she really want the two of them defending seats in 2016.

Joan Burton is 62.
I was under the impression and sure I read somewhere this is her last Dáil, no plans to run again
Maybe I'm wrong, just was sure that was the case

ArmaniJeanss

mikemac wrote: »

Joan Burton is 62.
I was under the impression and sure I read somewhere this is her last Dáil, no plans to run again
Maybe I'm wrong, just was sure that was the case

Fair point re JB, I'm not sure she has announced anything definitely but there has to be a >66% chance she won't stand again.

But to an extent what I've said would still apply - she has a big electoral machine and there is big antipathy between that machine and the Padraig Nulty camp (PN would be closer to the Socialist Party / ULA school of thinking on many issues).
So just how much support he'll get from the local party is open to question I think, and the national party may be more intersted in fighting the Presidential election.

I can see Dennison FG getting the most No 1s, but the left getting a bigger overall percentage. McGuiness FF might get 800/900 of Lenihans old vote but probably won't transfer enough to Dennison to get him over the line.

The left should transfer well to each other as usual, it just a case of which of them is ahead of the others after the first few counts and gains those transfers.

Very open betting heat.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/other-politics/irish-government/Dublin-West-By-Election-2759243.html

PomBear

Paul Donnelly is running for SF,would be an excellent TD

Hannibal

PomBear wrote: »

Paul Donnelly is running for SF,would be an excellent TD

He would be and he's a very good politician within the area, but I can't see SF coming from 6.1% in the last election here getting the maybe 20 to 25% needed to win the seat

vellocet

Dotsey wrote: »

He would be and he's a very good politician within the area, but I can't see SF coming from 6.1% in the last election here getting the maybe 20 to 25% needed to win the seat

But it is a bye election. The assumption is that a lot of the Higgins voters will go for SF, even if the SP run a candidate.

As for the OP, FF could run Coco the Clown, they are dead in Dublin. Literally will finish below PBP and above the Christian Solidarity Party.

I would be extremely surprised if the get a seat in the capital in the next 10 years.

The Waltzing Consumer

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Where will Brian Lenihans 6400 votes go, on the grounds that this largely leafy Castleknock based vote won't be going to rundown Corduff based McGuiness?

That is the key question, those votes will stay in Castleknock. they will decide who is the new TD, if Eithne Loftus runs, she may have a chance as she is from the area.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Just how much hardcore campaigning will the Joan Burton wing of Labour do for the Labour candidate, especially if its her less than friendly colleague Padraig Nulty. Will she really want the two of them defending seats in 2016.

God I hope not, can't stand that man, he still speaks as if his party are in opposition, what the hell will he do if he is elected? He is immature and needs a good few more years experience. I would have put Peggy Hamill up there before him.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Can FG's Dennison become the first government candidate to win a byelection in about 20 years?

This could be interesting, if he can get Castleknock behind him, he could take the seat for sure. But, big ask. This guy is so quiet and compared to the campaigning style of Leo, there is no campaigning for this guy.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Will SF, who've never thrown resources into an election here because of Joe Higgin's presence make a serious attempt at winning?

an absolute waste of a vote for these guys, councillors for SF have a history of resigning and being replaced by some unelected person. Don't deserve any seats in Dublin west.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Could Ruth Coppinger take it to give the SP/ULA two seats in a constituency.

Could not see this happening, most of Dublin West don't have any idea of who she is, only swords area does. If you said "the woman who is against everything, thinks money grows on trees, never smiles and fits the complete stereotype of a miserable feminist", they may have an idea.

InchicoreDude

Why the hatred towards his vocation as a teacher?

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

an absolute waste of a vote for these guys, councillors for SF have a history of resigning and being replaced by some unelected person. Don't deserve any seats in Dublin west.

Not really, Paul Donnelly hasn't quit and is hard working, why deny him your vote?

Pride Fighter

Dotsey wrote: »

He would be and he's a very good politician within the area, but I can't see SF coming from 6.1% in the last election here getting the maybe 20 to 25% needed to win the seat

Really?

Didnt the electorate kick him out of the council in 09?

SF dont have a hope here, its a 3 horse race between Patrick Nulty, Kieran Dennison and Ruth Coppinger.

donkey balls

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Why the hatred towards his vocation as a teacher?

I wouldn't say hatred towards his vocation as a teacher more so pissed off with the amount of teachers passed and present in the Dail,Then you have the likes of Dempsey/hannifin/Martin etc who held on to their teaching posts while in the Dail for quiet a long time and were useless as ministers.
Myself personally I've no problems with school teachers my ex from some time ago is one along with my mates sister(who has since left to find work on the other side of the world) My question is would the FF canidate or any other parties candidate give up there secure jobs( I'm presuming the FF candidate is full time) to run in the election without having the back up of taking up the teaching post again if they lost their seat.
Me thinks not one person would do it.

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

Not really, Paul Donnelly hasn't quit and is hard working, why deny him your vote?

Well he is not, sorry, he may be a nice guy, but he did not get voted in the locals, he did not get voted in the generals, he has never gotten voted for a position.

Martin Christie was the last SF to actually get voted for by the people. Then he pretty much disappeared in a SF controversy when they suspended him, he was replaced by an unelected Felix Gallagher who also resigned to give way for the second unelected councillor, Paul Donnelly. Donnelly has shown that he cannot muster the votes. This is just SF keeping the brand alive by throwing any name. It would do more damage to run no one then to run an empty vessel.

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Well he is not, sorry, he may be a nice guy, but he did not get voted in the locals, he did not get voted in the generals, he has never gotten voted for a position.

Martin Christie was the last SF to actually get voted for by the people. Then he pretty much disappeared in a SF controversy when they suspended him, he was replaced by an unelected Felix Gallagher who also resigned to give way for the second unelected councillor, Paul Donnelly. Donnelly has shown that he cannot muster the votes. This is just SF keeping the brand alive by throwing any name. It would do more damage to run no one then to run an empty vessel.

You wouldn't vote for someone because other people didn't vote for him in local elections?

COYW

Does Enda still hold his teaching post?

thebman

COYW wrote: »

Does Enda still hold his teaching post?

This is a good and valid question though maybe not on this thread :P

I thought the whole sure hold on to your job just in case thing was supposed to be going away anyway.

It is ridiculously undemocratic to have one profession have such a perk for anyone leaving it to run for election.

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

You wouldn't vote for someone because other people didn't vote for him in local elections?

I would not vote for him because, in my opinion, he is not someone I would want representing Dublin West. I have lived all over Dublin West and I have NEVER seen SF do anything whatsoever for the community. I may dislike many parties but I know what they do in the area, SF have done squat.

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I would not vote for him because, in my opinion, he is not someone I would want representing Dublin West. I have lived all over Dublin West and I have NEVER seen SF do anything whatsoever for the community. I may dislike many parties but I know what they do in the area, SF have done squat.

So you'd vote for parties creating mass unemployment and emigration, they do alot for Dublin West alright....

ArmaniJeanss

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Could not see this happening, most of Dublin West don't have any idea of who she is, only swords area does. If you said "the woman who is against everything, thinks money grows on trees, never smiles and fits the complete stereotype of a miserable feminist", they may have an idea.

She's actually the Mulhuddart end of the constituency (she's my neighbour).
Whilst I'd disagree with her politics, the SP is very hardworking round here - you get a fortnightly leaflet from them all year round, regardless of impending elections. Joe Higgins will be on the campaign trail with her (he is not standing again so will give it 100%) and he has a massive personal vote which she may be able to tap into.
This is a marginally left leaning constituency imo and bear in mind thats it not a first past the post vote, its still STV. Whichever of Nulty/Donnelly/Coppinger is ahead on the first count should pick up transfers and challenge Dennison who is likely to get most first preferences but has no obvious transfers.

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

an absolute waste of a vote for these guys, councillors for SF have a history of resigning and being replaced by some unelected person. Don't deserve any seats in Dublin west.

I'm no fan of SF either but I think their campaign will be a big pointer to future elections. With Comrade Joe (and possibly Joan Burton) not standing again and 2 leftwing seats always available in this largely working class constituency, it really is a place that they should be targetting. I'd expect to see some heavyweight SFers coming to town to support Donnelly. If they don't run a presidential candidate then they can throw all their plentiful resources here.
Donnelly will be under pressure to show he can get the 15-20% first preferences needed to get a seat next time out.

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

So you'd vote for parties creating mass unemployment and emigration, they do alot for Dublin West alright....

Yeah cause SF have created lots of jobs? West Dublin is very thankful for the Blanchardstown centre and the many business parks that attract many multinationals here, and it is all thanks to the policies of sf and not any other party...

The Waltzing Consumer

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

She's actually the Mulhuddart end of the constituency (she's my neighbour).
Whilst I'd disagree with her politics, the SP is very high hardworking round here - you get a fortnightly leaflet from them all year round, regardless of impending elections. Joe Higgins will be on the campaign trail with her (he is not standing again so will give it 100%) and he has a massive personal vote which she may be able to tap into.
This is a marginally left leaning constituency imo and bear in mind thats it not a first past the post vote, its still STV. Whichever of Nulty/Donnelly/Coppinger is ahead on the first count should pick up transfers and challenge Dennison who is likely to get most first preferences but has no obvious transfers.



I'm no fan of SF either but I think their campaign will be a big pointer to future elections. With Comrade Joe (and possibly Joan Burton) not standing again and 2 leftwing seats always available in this largely working class constituency, it really is a place that they should be targetting. I'd expect to see some heavyweight SFers coming to town to support Donnelly. If they don't run a presidential candidate then they can throw all their plentiful resources here.
Donnelly will be under pressure to show he can the 15-20% first preferences needed to get a seat next time out.

some good points.

Godge

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

She's actually the Mulhuddart end of the constituency (she's my neighbour).
Whilst I'd disagree with her politics, the SP is very hardworking round here - you get a fortnightly leaflet from them all year round, regardless of impending elections. Joe Higgins will be on the campaign trail with her (he is not standing again so will give it 100%) and he has a massive personal vote which she may be able to tap into.
This is a marginally left leaning constituency imo and bear in mind thats it not a first past the post vote, its still STV. Whichever of Nulty/Donnelly/Coppinger is ahead on the first count should pick up transfers and challenge Dennison who is likely to get most first preferences but has no obvious transfers.



I'm no fan of SF either but I think their campaign will be a big pointer to future elections. With Comrade Joe (and possibly Joan Burton) not standing again and 2 leftwing seats always available in this largely working class constituency, it really is a place that they should be targetting. I'd expect to see some heavyweight SFers coming to town to support Donnelly. If they don't run a presidential candidate then they can throw all their plentiful resources here.
Donnelly will be under pressure to show he can get the 15-20% first preferences needed to get a seat next time out.

A pretty good analysis. It is especially interesting that there does not appear to be a candidate yet from the Castleknock ward.

I would expect the first preference order to be something like:

1. Dennison
2. Coppinger
3. Nulty
4. Donnelly
5. McGuinness
6. O'Gorman (green)

The questions then are:

- Does Leo get out the Castleknock voters to vote for Dennison?
- Will FF be further down because nobody coming out to vote for their Presidential candidate?
- Will the FF shift to FG last time out in Dublin continue to be a factor?
- Will Mitchell being in Dublin get out a FG vote?
- How big will all of the above factor be in putting Dennison far enough ahead on the first count?
- Is Nulty more transfer-friendly than Coppinger? I think he is but will it be enough to move into second place before the last count?
- Will Nulty transfer to Coppinger and vice versa to the same extent?
- If say Nulty's 2s are going en bloc to Coppinger but not vice versa will that mean Dennison would hold on by virtue of non-transferables if Nulty ends up in the last count and lose if Coppinger is against him in the last count?
- Will either of the Government parties suffer an end to the honeymoon?

an interesting bye-election.

HellFireClub

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Why the hatred towards his vocation as a teacher?

I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "those that can do, those that can't, teach"... Teachers in this country are a cabal of union orientated individuals, the terms that they enjoy are just outrageous, from their holiday entitlements to the automatic pay increments that they get EVERY YEAR, for having an extra years experience in their job.

This kind of stuff doesn't happen in the private sector. Show me a private sector position where you AUTOMATICALLY move up the pay scale every year on the basis of having an additional years experience???

These kind of automatic and entirely notional entitlements that are associated with all public sector positions, make me believe that our whole theatre of political representation is completely infected with this notion that benefits are bestowed automatically.

What we need in this country is a restoration of some much needed balance. Get some business people in there who know what is going on in the real economy, who have to actually earn their own wage every week as opposed to seeing it automatically land in their bank account every month.

I firmly believe that the reason this country is in the state it's in is because of the sheer lack of balance in the governance of this state. We typically have PS workers, winding themselves into political roles, who never had to argue or fight for a pay increase in their entire political lives, making decisions on the national stage, that have been hugely damaging to this state.

Any business person would never sign up to a pay increase unless improvements have been demonstrated previously. It is typical in a private sector role, to be promoted and then to get the pay increase that is associated with the promotion, 1-2 years later when you have demonstrated competence and ability in the role. This was the case for some of the largest multinationals in this state that I have worked for, yet I see Gardai and teachers getting salary increments up along a salary scale because they are 12 months more into the job.

This is what has us with teachers who are on 60k a year, who just have to show up to get these salary increments.

Anyway, back on topic, is there any sign of someone with some actual real world experience putting themselves forward for this seat?

Kiwi_knock

I am nearly certain David McGuinness is not a full time teacher, he certainly was not at the last election so unless he got made full time over the Summer which I very much doubt it he is still only part time. So the fact he is a teacher should not come into it.

Godge

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "those that can do, those that can't, teach"...

You forgot the finish the quotation:

Those that can, do; those that can't do, teach; those that can't teach, write or post on message boards:D:D:D

Arciphel

Don't bother posting anything on David McGuinness blog, he deletes everything that isn't people cheerleading him :rolleyes

Kiwi_knock

It does seem like McGuinness will not be getting the support of the Castleknock branch. There was definitely a concerted effort to get one of Lenihan's old friends chosen as the candidate. McGuinness would have won it much more convincingly if all 4 of the other hopefuls had put their name into the race instead of pulling out. It does not bode well for McGuinness' campaign, it would already have been a struggle to gain any of Lenihan's vote but right now it looks downright impossible without the support of the Castleknock branch. Right now he is on course to receive the same number of votes as in the General Election which would be disastrous not just for his political future but also for FF supposed political recovery.

Mr.Micro

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

It does seem like McGuinness will not be getting the support of the Castleknock branch. There was definitely a concerted effort to get one of Lenihan's old friends chosen as the candidate. McGuinness would have won it much more convincingly if all 4 of the other hopefuls had put their name into the race instead of pulling out. It does not bode well for McGuinness' campaign, it would already have been a struggle to gain any of Lenihan's vote but right now it looks downright impossible without the support of the Castleknock branch. Right now he is on course to receive the same number of votes as in the General Election which would be disastrous not just for his political future but also for FF supposed political recovery.

Let us all hope that you are right. The last thing the country needs is another
FF leech in the guise of a TD being paid from the public purse.

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah cause SF have created lots of jobs? West Dublin is very thankful for the Blanchardstown centre and the many business parks that attract many multinationals here, and it is all thanks to the policies of sf and not any other party...

Oh dear. Dare I say, an FF voter?

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

Oh dear. Dare I say, an FF voter?

Ha, nope, I and none of my family have ever voted FF. Saying that, we cannot twist events and truth, simply because we dislike FF, it would be counterproductive.

are you going to start telling me of the jobs SF have created in Dublin west now? Lets forget about any other party who has been in government, tell me exactly what SF have done to get jobs in Dublin West instead of attacking me for having the audacity to say that they have done pretty much nothing and as bad as FF are, whilst in government, they did implement policies that brought thousands and thousands of jobs to Dublin west. That is not a lie, that is not spin, that is not opinion, it is just a fact, and I hate FF.

Fitzerb

HellFireClub wrote: »

A Teacher, Jesus it just get's worse.

Yep,,, same as enda

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Ha, nope, I and none of my family have ever voted FF. Saying that, we cannot twist events and truth, simply because we dislike FF, it would be counterproductive.

are you going to start telling me of the jobs SF have created in Dublin west now? Lets forget about any other party who has been in government, tell me exactly what SF have done to get jobs in Dublin West instead of attacking me for having the audacity to say that they have done pretty much nothing and as bad as FF are, whilst in government, they did implement policies that brought thousands and thousands of jobs to Dublin west. That is not a lie, that is not spin, that is not opinion, it is just a fact, and I hate FF.

SF haven't been in government in Dublin in 90 years (there could have been plenty of jobs in Dublin West from SF for all we know )

As for FF, they created a bubbled unstable economy where places like Dublin West had an economy which relied on multinational companies and had little native business in place to hold up should the MNCs ever decide to pull out which has happened in many towns and cities in the country as we both know. This was a big factor to the mass unemployment.

FG and Lab are now in government and are doing little to create jobs as we know unemployment is rising, Lisbon didn't bring jobs, neither did Fine Gaels job plan and so on. There's little point to vote to prop up a poor government that continuing FF policies.

Also, I might as well, while it's fair to vote for a TD who will be concerned especially about their constituency, we do not need TDs who prioritise their constituencies over the nation. Be wary of this, please think nationally when you vote, we don't need anymore Lowrys or Healy Raes...

Godge

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

It does seem like McGuinness will not be getting the support of the Castleknock branch. There was definitely a concerted effort to get one of Lenihan's old friends chosen as the candidate. McGuinness would have won it much more convincingly if all 4 of the other hopefuls had put their name into the race instead of pulling out. It does not bode well for McGuinness' campaign, it would already have been a struggle to gain any of Lenihan's vote but right now it looks downright impossible without the support of the Castleknock branch. Right now he is on course to receive the same number of votes as in the General Election which would be disastrous not just for his political future but also for FF supposed political recovery.

I think you are right. With no FF presidential candidate in the race, there is no reason for many Castleknock FFers (if there are many left) to come out to vote. Some might come out to vote Mitchell as a Dub but they might continue and vote for Dennison as well.

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

SF haven't been in government in Dublin in 90 years (there could have been plenty of jobs in Dublin West from SF for all we know )

so just to be clear, that is zero, SF have created zero jobs in Dublin West. Not one.

PomBear wrote: »

As for FF, they created a bubbled unstable economy where places like Dublin West had an economy which relied on multinational companies and had little native business in place to hold up should the MNCs ever decide to pull out which has happened in many towns and cities in the country as we both know. This was a big factor to the mass unemployment.

Well multinationals came here because of corp tax mainly, that has nothing to do with a bubble or unstabled economy. Labour were also the party to introduce that 12.5% corp tax, not FF. I am not sure what your point here, we have many areas that do not have indigenous business, that is why we need decent politicians who understand tax, IDA, multinational business needs, not SF people who are scared of it all and have zero clue about it really.

PomBear wrote: »

FG and Lab are now in government and are doing little to create jobs as we know unemployment is rising, Lisbon didn't bring jobs, neither did Fine Gaels job plan and so on. There's little point to vote to prop up a poor government that continuing FF policies.

Governments don't make jobs, the make the conditions that allow jobs to be created. This is certainly a slow process and cannot be magically altered. Whilst many policies have wrecked Ireland, FF, FG and Lab have experience in policies that brought full employment to Ireland, SF have zero experience in bringing any jobs, they have never created one. FF, FG and Lab have made policies that created full employment, now the recession took hell of a swing at that, but at least those groups have success behind them, SF have nothing and no ideas at all.

PomBear wrote: »

Also, I might as well, while it's fair to vote for a TD who will be concerned especially about their constituency, we do not need TDs who prioritise their constituencies over the nation. Be wary of this, please think nationally when you vote, we don't need anymore Lowrys or Healy Raes...

Yeah cause all we need is a shinner who blabs on about a 32 county republic as shown by the last party conference last week and the amazing economic speech where the laughable solution was all based around a 32 county republic. Just have 32 counties, jobs will magically appear, no problems what so ever. You can vote for this SF, I won't and neither will pretty much everyone. He won't get you a job, he can't even get himself on the council and he is a full time politician.

Pride Fighter

PomBear wrote: »

SF haven't been in government in Dublin in 90 years

They're also only 40 years old, so of course they wouldn't have been in government that long.

I dont know why people are talking about them? They wont be at the races in Dublin West, it'll be between them and FF for 4th place.

PomBear

Pride Fighter wrote: »

They're also only 40 years old, so of course they wouldn't have been in government that long.

I dont know why people are talking about them? They wont be at the races in Dublin West, it'll be between them and FF for 4th place.

Because if their chances are good or bad, it should be no reason to vote or not to vote for them. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a distorted and pretty much wrong view of PRSTV and democracy.

Also, you might want to look up again that Sinn Féin were founded in 1905

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

so just to be clear, that is zero, SF have created zero jobs in Dublin West. Not one.

You have to be in Government to create jobs, do you not? Voting for them puts them closer to being in Government where they have the chance to create jobs. It also puts them in a position to be a stronger opposition to the current government which are losing Dublin West jobs.

Well multinationals came here because of corp tax mainly, that has nothing to do with a bubble or unstabled economy. Labour were also the party to introduce that 12.5% corp tax, not FF. I am not sure what your point here, we have many areas that do not have indigenous business, that is why we need decent politicians who understand tax, IDA, multinational business needs, not SF people who are scared of it all and have zero clue about it really.

A reliance on MNCs with little foundation of native industry partially create the unstable economy we have today. It's funny you don't know that but feel you are in a position to say SF have no clue yet economists like David McWilliams and Constantin Gurdiev agreed with SFs economic strategy.

Governments don't make jobs, the make the conditions that allow jobs to be created. This is certainly a slow process and cannot be magically altered. Whilst many policies have wrecked Ireland, FF, FG and Lab have experience in policies that brought full employment to Ireland, SF have zero experience in bringing any jobs, they have never created one. FF, FG and Lab have made policies that created full employment, now the recession took hell of a swing at that, but at least those groups have success behind them, SF have nothing and no ideas at all.

Look at the last budget in the North, look at ours.
Look at their means of creating jobs, look at ours.

FF, FG and Lab are and have been ballsing up while the Stormont government which SF are a major part of are dealing with London's recession exceptionally well.

Yeah cause all we need is a shinner who blabs on about a 32 county republic as shown by the last party conference last week and the amazing economic speech where the laughable solution was all based around a 32 county republic. Just have 32 counties, jobs will magically appear, no problems what so ever. You can vote for this SF, I won't and neither will pretty much everyone. He won't get you a job, he can't even get himself on the council and he is a full time politician.

Another statement you've just thrown out there, would a standardised taxation system not work?
Island wide electricity, phone, transport companies?
You''ve given no thought at all to your last post, have you?

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

You have to be in Government to create jobs, do you not? Voting for them puts them closer to being in Government where they have the chance to create jobs. It also puts them in a position to be a stronger opposition to the current government which are losing Dublin West jobs.

No you do not have to be in government to create jobs, governments create the conditions to create jobs. National government is only one aspect. The idea that SF would have a better chance in creating jobs is fictional, not based on anything, at least other parties have created jobs and despite the recession, thousands of jobs are present in Dublin West because of their policies, not SF policies.

PomBear wrote: »

A reliance on MNCs with little foundation of native industry partially create the unstable economy we have today. It's funny you don't know that but feel you are in a position to say SF have no clue yet economists like David McWilliams and Constantin Gurdiev agreed with SFs economic strategy.

Ireland has extremely limited resources and MNCs is a great way to create employment. Any industry is unstable and the idea you create stability from native industry is crazy, where is the basis of that? Waterford Crystal? Wow two economists who have been right and wrong about many things, well done guys.

PomBear wrote: »

Look at the last budget in the North, look at ours.
Look at their means of creating jobs, look at ours.

FF, FG and Lab are and have been ballsing up while the Stormont government which SF are a major part of are dealing with London's recession exceptionally well.

Wow :rolleyes: so they have been managing their pocket money well, big difference if they were on their own. Please tell me their means of creating jobs?

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

No you do not have to be in government to create jobs, governments create the conditions to create jobs. National government is only one aspect. The idea that SF would have a better chance in creating jobs is fictional, not based on anything, at least other parties have created jobs and despite the recession, thousands of jobs are present in Dublin West because of their policies, not SF policies.

Wrong, while you are right saying government only create means for jobs. An opposition party cannot create jobs. Do FF? Do the ULA? Did FG or Lab in their last term?

Ireland has extremely limited resources and MNCs is a great way to create employment. Any industry is unstable and the idea you create stability from native industry is crazy, where is the basis of that? Waterford Crystal? Wow two economists who have been right and wrong about many things, well done guys.

Actually native industry is far more reliable. Anyone with any economic knowledge knows this.... Also, those two economists are two of Ireland's most astute economists. Any economists of their stature agree with what the current government are doing?

Wow :rolleyes: so they have been managing their pocket money well, big difference if they were on their own. Please tell me their means of creating jobs?

The way most governments create jobs, invest in the right fields and give incentives for businesses to create, for the small print, you'd have to look it up yourself. Their track record in government satisfies me.

Pride Fighter

PomBear wrote: »

Because if their chances are good or bad, it should be no reason to vote or not to vote for them. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a distorted and pretty much wrong view of PRSTV and democracy.

Also, you might want to look up again that Sinn Féin were founded in 1905

They were founded in 1970. They left Official SF in 1970 and have no links to SF before 1970.

You're right though. Everyone is entitled to vote who they want to into office.

PomBear

Pride Fighter wrote: »

They were founded in 1970. They left Official SF in 1970 and have no links to SF before 1970.

You're right though. Everyone is entitled to vote who they want to into office.

Official SF were a product of those that left SF in 1970. The lineage has not been broken from 1905, just those that left.

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

Wrong, while you are right saying government only create means for jobs. An opposition party cannot create jobs. Do FF? Do the ULA? Did FG or Lab in their last term?

Local government can create the means too. That is my main point.

PomBear wrote: »

Actually native industry is far more reliable. Anyone with any economic knowledge knows this.... Also, those two economists are two of Ireland's most astute economists. Any economists of their stature agree with what the current government are doing?

Such as our native construction industry? Not very reliable now, or manufacturing? Industry is global, Ireland's best chance is an educated, multilingual workforce working hi tech jobs, not fishing. I don't think having one or two economists on your side is a sign of anything, I would not brag that FG and Lab have ICB and IMF on their side and that is comprised of what, hundreds of economists?
McWilliams is outside looking in, Constantin Gurdiev is an academic in a comfortable extremely well paid college job.

PomBear wrote: »

The way most governments create jobs, invest in the right fields and give incentives for businesses to create, for the small print, you'd have to look it up yourself. Their track record in government satisfies me.

Irish government invests in many fields through its various bodies. Government only play a part in this though. If it was so simple, everyone would do it. Anyway, getting way off topic. Are you living in Dublin West, I presume you are from the area?

PomBear

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Local government can create the means too. That is my main point.

Again you need a majority in local council alot of the time, such is the nature of Irish politics.

Such as our native construction industry? Not very reliable now, or manufacturing? Industry is global, Ireland's best chance is an educated, multilingual workforce working hi tech jobs, not fishing. I don't think having one or two economists on your side is a sign of anything, I would not brag that FG and Lab have ICB and IMF on their side and that is comprised of what, hundreds of economists?
McWilliams is outside looking in, Constantin Gurdiev is an academic in a comfortable extremely well paid college job.

Well construction and fishing are actually quite profitable industries if handled well. Construction is failing due to the banking crisis. Fishing is failing because of overfishing and throwaway EU standards of fishing territories and regulation.

Also the 'hundreds of ECB and IMF economists' are making a fat profit from the bailout, ofcourse they support it.:rolleyes:

Irish government invests in many fields through its various bodies. Government only play a part in this though. If it was so simple, everyone would do it. Anyway, getting way off topic. Are you living in Dublin West, I presume you are from the area?

No i'm not, I have family living there.

If the governments investments were correct, they'd create jobs which they aren't

The Waltzing Consumer

PomBear wrote: »

Again you need a majority in local council alot of the time, such is the nature of Irish politics.

Well, since I now know you ain't from the area, SF don't and have not done hardly anything in the area so they can have all the ideas they want, they have done squat in the Dublin West. For them to suddenly "oh we know how to create jobs" is bull.

PomBear wrote: »

Well construction and fishing are actually quite profitable industries if handled well. Construction is failing due to the banking crisis. Fishing is failing because of overfishing and throwaway EU standards of fishing territories and regulation.

Also the 'hundreds of ECB and IMF economists' are making a fat profit from the bailout, ofcourse they support it.:rolleyes:

So you pretty much agree that these native industries are not reliable as you have made out to be? There are a lot more constant jobs in MNCs in Dublin West then native industries. What percentage of shops in the area are native? Not a lot, again, you are not from the area so your theory that native business is the solution is unwise and up in the air.

I would agree with your view of the economists but hey, you were the one dragging your two examples into the debate, and sure we know, they work for nothing, they do for the good of mankind and SF.

PomBear wrote: »

No i'm not, I have family living there.

If the governments investments were correct, they'd create jobs which they aren't

:eek: I was shocked when I read that, I will tell you what I presume you would tell me if I was butting in in your area telling you to vote for a particular party, take a hike.

Ah yes if the government investments were correct, it is all so simple as that, SF are miracle workers, they should go into the private industry if they have such great ideas, people would pay billions for these economic plans.

chucknorris

Without quoting anyone above; the property crash is not simply down to the banking crisis. The property sector unemployment levels and the general crash in the industry is down to the property bubble fueled by cheap credit and the housing market in particular has not corrected it's self yet.

It's a perfect storm for that industry and David McWilliams stated the crash occurred around 2002/03 but was propped up buy cheap credit. if the banks didn't have the crisis they are having, this would only have delayed the inevitable.

That is all.