Have you Forgiven

PTH2009

Have you Forgiven Axl Rose and Guns N Roses for there shambles of a Dublin Concert some 12 months ago. September 1st 2010 in the o2 Dublin. ???

The famous bottle throwing incident.

Have been to some great shows since this and can now say i would welcome the guns back with open arms. **** happens but Id say Axl will never play in Dublin again because of some bitch or asshole who caused it

Fiftysix

unless there is 1500 pink skittles, rare steak, and gin and tonic served in mens hats i cant see him coming back tbh

Malice

In before the "Axl is a tosser" etc. comments!

Personally there's nothing for me to forgive except an extra bit of moderation across a couple of threads. I wasn't at the gig nor would I have been expecting them to play on time. Had I been at the gig I'd have been far more annoyed with the venue staff telling people the gig was over when they had didn't know for sure that it was and, more importantly, the twat(s) who decided to start throwing bottles onto the stage.

MickShamrock

No I haven't forgiven Axl. I never got my bottle back! :pac:

RayCon

Nothing to forgive ... I wasn't there ... and won't be there if they ever play again.

chin_grin

RayCon wrote: »

Nothing to forgive ... I wasn't there ... and won't be there if they ever play again.

+1. Because they're overrated. Always were.

:P

FunkZ

I wasn't there and I don't care, he is a twat.

buck65

Guns N Roses stopped being relevant or decent somewhere in the middle of Use Your Illusions tour.
What did people expect?

Malice

Malice wrote: »

In before the "Axl is a tosser" etc. comments!

FunkZ wrote: »

I wasn't there and I don't care, he is a twat.

Well that didn't take long. I'm not convinced that this thread won't just degenerate into posters giving out about the band but I will leave it open for a bit longer.

Let me be blunt though:

If you can't make your point without resorting to name calling or insults then don't bother making it.

the_syco

Was it a glass bottle or plastic bottle, and if it was glass, where'd they get it, if it was plastic why the commotion, and was Axl even hit?

Mental Mickey

IIRC, it was a plastic bottle....?

IMO, Axl only has himself to blame for crap like that happening at his gigs. This was discussed on another thread about the gig in question.

Apparently(I dont know how true this is?) he was asleep in his hotel room, and had to be awoken by one of his entourage. He arrived at the gig an hour late, went on stage in front of an almost full house of(understandably)very p****d off people, and had a bottle chucked in his general direction.

He then stormed off stage, and had to be persuaded by a lot of people(including Denis Desmond), to go back onstage to complete the gig to a half empty venue, otherwise they wouldn't get paid!!!!!!

I'm not condoning the guy who threw the bottle, but you can understand him being p****d off at the way Axl treats his fans.

There is another thread located somewhere in the depths of the R&M/Gigs forum - but I would guess that it is locked.....?

Malice

Mental Mickey wrote: »

There is another thread located somewhere in the depths of the R&M/Gigs forum - but I would guess that it is locked.....?

There are at least two threads on the gig. The Rock & Metal one is here and the Gigs & Events one is here. Neither of them are locked but please don't take that as an invitation to start posting in them.

Cill94

chin_grin wrote: »

+1. Because they're overrated. Always were.

:P

+2. Sweet Child O Mine must be one of the most overplayed rock songs ever. That and Welcome To The Jungle. I've grown to detest them both.

NIBBS

Malice wrote: »

In before the "Axl is a tosser" etc. comments!

Personally there's nothing for me to forgive except an extra bit of moderation across a couple of threads. I wasn't at the gig nor would I have been expecting them to play on time. Had I been at the gig I'd have been far more annoyed with the venue staff telling people the gig was over when they had didn't know for sure that it was and, more importantly, the twat(s) who decided to start throwing bottles onto the stage.

here's why I wouldn't pay in to see him again :-

1) There's being late and there's being ignorant, you can afford to come one when you want when a gig is on at a weekend or is in a city where the transport system doesn't shut down just after you decide you'll hit the stage - but in Dublin midweek you are showing no respect to your fans by coming on as late as he did (having said that I'm sure the promoters know he'd be out late and should have at least made a not of it to fans that the show would run late - which they didn't).

2) Despite being 90+ mins late to the stage and having the support band play more than a full set they weren't prepared, despite the crew working and twiddling for that time period he still came out and had sound problems and equipment problems. As good as he is he definitely isn't the most professional musician in the world is he.

3) The hassle, look I've been to a hell of a lot of gigs, but the crap that went on there is just something I don't need, he's not a kid anymore, and I certainly am not - I agree that the single most annoying thing of all for us was being outside the venue after being told by staff to leave the venue and with the house lights on and then to hear the band start up again when we are up the road a bit, but the gig had already been ruined, you can't act like a prima donna and storm off the stage when two empty plastic bottles land on the stage, I'm not condoning that in any way shape or form - but I sure as hell know that far worse has been thrown at him and it never bothered him - at the end of the day he just didn't want to be there that night, he didn't want to come back on stage either, and had I stayed I would have walked out with him standing at the back of the stage going through the motions......

having said that the last time I saw him he was on stage on time and didn't have the prima donna thing going on........I just don't think I'd be bother again........though I'd have to be put in the situation where it was a runner, don't think we'd see a promoter putting him on here in the near future either......

Mental Mickey

Malice wrote: »

There are at least two threads on the gig. The Rock & Metal one is here and the Gigs & Events one is here. Neither of them are locked but please don't take that as an invitation to start posting in them.

I won't. GN'R is a nostalgia act now - Axl is keeping it going to try to recoup the money he spent on "Chinese Democracy", and also the money he lost on all the lawsuits from former band members, people who worked in the band's circle.

Malice

Mental Mickey wrote: »

GN'R is a nostalgia act now - Axl is keeping it going to try to recoup the money he spent on "Chinese Democracy"

Heh, good point. I shudder to think how much that cost!

rednik

I would go and see them tonight. I stayed in the 02 on that infamous night and although Axl was a dick there were plenty in the crowd too.

Mental Mickey

rednik wrote: »

I would go and see them tonight. I stayed in the 02 on that infamous night and although Axl was a dick there were plenty in the crowd too.

Agreed. But Axl brings this s**t on himself with his primadonna antics.

Mental Mickey

Malice wrote: »

Heh, good point. I shudder to think how much that cost!

Tens of millions afaik.

MetalDog

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Tens of millions afaik.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/06/arts/music/06leed.html?ei=5090&en=a13c0fac87670850&ex=1267851600&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1195322585-YcO/12l8xR/GIod6+bXFQA

This article says 13 Million dollars, as of 2005!

Mental Mickey

MetalDog wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/06/arts/music/06leed.html?ei=5090&en=a13c0fac87670850&ex=1267851600&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1195322585-YcO/12l8xR/GIod6+bXFQA

This article says 13 Million dollars, as of 2005!

Waste of money, as there are(imo)only 2 or 3 half decent songs on it.

Jelle1880

PTH2009 wrote: »

Have you Forgiven Axl Rose and Guns N Roses for there shambles of a Dublin Concert some 12 months ago. September 1st 2010 in the o2 Dublin. ???

The famous bottle throwing incident.

Have been to some great shows since this and can now say i would welcome the guns back with open arms. **** happens but Id say Axl will never play in Dublin again because of some bitch or asshole who caused it

The only 'bitch or asshole' who caused it was Axl, and Axl alone.

The crowd were rightly pissed off and I believe he could count himself lucky it was plastic bottles.

Mental Mickey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The only 'bitch or asshole' who caused it was Axl, and Axl alone.

The crowd were rightly pissed off and I believe he could count himself lucky it was plastic bottles.

He was lucky that there wasn't a riot similar to the one that occured during their tour with Metallica in Canada, when he walked off the stage after 5 songs!!!!!

IIRC, they absolutely f***ing destroyed the place!?

Angron

I wasn't at the gig, so I don't really need to forgive them. I'm not a G n' R fan, so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other if they play here again or not.

Malice

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The only 'bitch or asshole' who caused it was Axl, and Axl alone.

Are you seriously suggesting that the bottle throwers in the crowd were 100% innocent?

Mental Mickey

Malice wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that the bottle throwers in the crowd were 100% innocent?

They aren't, but ye really can't blame them when that git behaves the way he does................?

Malice

Mental Mickey wrote: »

They aren't, but ye really can't blame them when that git behaves the way he does................?

Well, in my opinion you can actually . I think most people are aware of the old maxim "Two wrongs don't make a right". Axl Rose is notorious for being late to gigs so Guns N' Roses concert attendees should take it as a given that he's going to be late and not work themselves up over it. Demonstrating displeasure by throwing bottles at him is not going to result in a positive outcome for anyone.

Note that I'm not saying he was right or that I agree with what he did. I firmly believe that he should have more respect for Guns N' Roses fans. I just highlighted that part of Jelle1880's post because, if that is their belief, it's wrong.

Mental Mickey

Malice wrote: »

Well, in my opinion you can actually . I think most people are aware of the old maxim "Two wrongs don't make a right". Axl Rose is notorious for being late to gigs so Guns N' Roses concert attendees should take it as a given that he's going to be late and not work themselves up over it. Demonstrating displeasure by throwing bottles at him is not going to result in a positive outcome for anyone.

Note that I'm not saying he was right or that I agree with what he did. I firmly believe that he should have more respect for Guns N' Roses fans. I just highlighted that part of Jelle1880's post because, if that is their belief, it's wrong.

And also for his fellow band members and crew...........

Motley Crue

OK, well, all good points raised and I agree with a lot of them

I was front row centre and saw the events unfold that evening. In the aftermath I was one of the most public speakers on the fact that people should get refunds. I am still disgusted that MCD managed to refund a token few, not release this information publicly, and yet still maintain a "**** you Ireland" attitude to concert goer's that evening

As for Rose, he is an amazing performer, and I will go and see him again if he plays in Dublin or anywhere else I can travel too. I don't think MCD should promote the event though.

Actually, I do want to add, Rose doesn't deserve to be hit with bottles regardless of the situation. Rose was wrong to delay the audience and force the support band to play longer to compensate for his absence. Or he was wrong to be absent and thus force his management or road team to make that decision. So he was wrong and so were the audience. Terrible cocktail of hate brewed that night.

Short answer, yes, I never really blamed him for what happened that night. My only beef was with the organiser and the lack of a refund.

RayCon

Motley Crue wrote: »

As for Rose, he is an amazing performer, and I will go and see him again if he plays in Dublin or anywhere else I can travel too.

In the world of addicts (so in this case we'll substitute the term addict for "prima donna behaviour") - you're an enabler ...

.... so instead of blaming the promoter .. why not bend over a little further and ask Rose if he'd like to charge you even more next time he fuk's you over.

Motley Crue

RayCon wrote: »

.... so instead of blaming the promoter .. why not bend over a little further and ask Rose if he'd like to charge you even more next time he fuk's you over.

Rose almost gets hit with a bottle, a bottle that just goes past Ron Thal's head, after coming out about an hour and a half late at a performance. Rose was absolutely and completely wrong to come out that late for the performance and he should be held accountable in the promoters fining him for this display. But he did not deserve to have something thrown at him so the crowd were also to blame.

At that point Rose leaves the stage, and it's 22 minutes into a concert that has started 60/90 minutes late (depending on the original stage time, which didn't seem too bad because the road crew forced the support band to play a longer set). It's approaching 11 and most of the crowd are extremely pissed off because they've been standing around for the better part of three or four hours since the doors opened, watching a support band they didn't like, waiting for a headline act who has just walked off stage.

At that point, knowing that the car park was scheduled to close at midnight, knowing that the LUAS would stop running by 11.40 and knowing that the buses would stop running around 11.30 they should have simply cancelled the gig, announced there would be provisions made, and let people go home. It's past 11 and Rose has only played for 22 minutes.

In fact, what has happened is that MCD have allowed Rose to get away with requesting so much that if this gig is cancelled they will loose thousands of pounds before they even have to refund everyone, so Dennis Desmond is desperate to get Rose back. By all accounts he chases Rose down the Quayside screaming at him to come back and do the gig. Rose eventually relents, after another 20 minutes have passed, by which point its about half eleven and a lot of the crowd have left because despite the time someone has raised the house lights on full and people have begun pouring out the doors.

Rose comes on and gives a performance that would make a spoilt 5 year old look timid, purposely eliminating sections of the concert that call for crowd interaction, not speaking between performances at all and generally standing beside the microphone without moving a muscle.

So the Guns N' Roses show people were expecting has been eliminated, and the public transport home has been eliminated for those based somewhat locally, and some have a long journey home (either because they have work in the morning or because they're driving from Limerick or Galway or both) so they've had to leave because if they leave too late they could be too tired to drive home safely.

And MCD wash their hands because technically GNR gave a show. And like good Irish people we are silenced from kicking up a fuss when an RTE runner on the Joe Duffy show tells me personally that they were forced not to talk about anything of what happened the night before when MCD called them personally. And then TV3 run a news story and get told to stop talking about it as well (according to one of their producers). MCD issue a press release in which they apologised “for any inconvenience caused due to late running of the show”, and we all have no choice but to accept this.

Then, out of nowhere, MCD refund a few patrons the cost of their tickets. Just send random cheques in the mail one day with compliment slips. And yet while it's great they've done this, they do it so quietly that it's not reported in the media, and there's no information given out publicly other then MCD's stern response that no refunds will be given in the official press release.

I don't need to forgive Rose, he needs to forgive himself his behaviour, but MCD should be held accountable for the way in which they treated their customers. If the same thing happened in the UK, I'm sorry to say this, it wouldn't be tolerated and people would get their money back.

MCD, RTE, TV3, Irish Times....they all need to get out of each other's pocket.

Mental Mickey

Motley Crue wrote: »

Rose almost gets hit with a bottle, a bottle that just goes past Ron Thal's head, after coming out about an hour and a half late at a performance. Rose was absolutely and completely wrong to come out that late for the performance and he should be held accountable in the promoters fining him for this display. But he did not deserve to have something thrown at him so the crowd were also to blame.

At that point Rose leaves the stage, and it's 22 minutes into a concert that has started 60/90 minutes late (depending on the original stage time, which didn't seem too bad because the road crew forced the support band to play a longer set). It's approaching 11 and most of the crowd are extremely pissed off because they've been standing around for the better part of three or four hours since the doors opened, watching a support band they didn't like, waiting for a headline act who has just walked off stage.

At that point, knowing that the car park was scheduled to close at midnight, knowing that the LUAS would stop running by 11.40 and knowing that the buses would stop running around 11.30 they should have simply cancelled the gig, announced there would be provisions made, and let people go home. It's past 11 and Rose has only played for 22 minutes.

In fact, what has happened is that MCD have allowed Rose to get away with requesting so much that if this gig is cancelled they will loose thousands of pounds before they even have to refund everyone, so Dennis Desmond is desperate to get Rose back. By all accounts he chases Rose down the Quayside screaming at him to come back and do the gig. Rose eventually relents, after another 20 minutes have passed, by which point its about half eleven and a lot of the crowd have left because despite the time someone has raised the house lights on full and people have begun pouring out the doors.

Rose comes on and gives a performance that would make a spoilt 5 year old look timid, purposely eliminating sections of the concert that call for crowd interaction, not speaking between performances at all and generally standing beside the microphone without moving a muscle.

So the Guns N' Roses show people were expecting has been eliminated, and the public transport home has been eliminated for those based somewhat locally, and some have a long journey home (either because they have work in the morning or because they're driving from Limerick or Galway or both) so they've had to leave because if they leave too late they could be too tired to drive home safely.

And MCD wash their hands because technically GNR gave a show. And like good Irish people we are silenced from kicking up a fuss when an RTE runner on the Joe Duffy show tells me personally that they were forced not to talk about anything of what happened the night before when MCD called them personally. And then TV3 run a news story and get told to stop talking about it as well (according to one of their producers). MCD issue a press release in which they apologised “for any inconvenience caused due to late running of the show”, and we all have no choice but to accept this.

Then, out of nowhere, MCD refund a few patrons the cost of their tickets. Just send random cheques in the mail one day with compliment slips. And yet while it's great they've done this, they do it so quietly that it's not reported in the media, and there's no information given out publicly other then MCD's stern response that no refunds will be given in the official press release.

I don't need to forgive Rose, he needs to forgive himself his behaviour, but MCD should be held accountable for the way in which they treated their customers. If the same thing happened in the UK, I'm sorry to say this, it wouldn't be tolerated and people would get their money back.

MCD, RTE, TV3, Irish Times....they all need to get out of each other's pocket.

I agree with your last sentence, BUT I still think A$$h0le Rose is an arrogant, spoilt little git.....and (s)he should take a lot of the blame for - maybe indirectly - causing all of that s**t, purely by coming on stage an hour late, and not apologising to his fans. He did the same thing in Slane in 1992, lucky there was no riot there.

Malice

Right I'm closing this as there's not much point leaving it open. It's going to re-tread old ground and go around in circles. Yes Axl Rose shouldn't have done what he did but neither should the bottle throwers, the promoter or the media.