Dublin Airport Today

pm.

Hi All

I made my way to Dublin Airport today ( because of the high winds tbh ) and it seemed that the Ryanair planes had more control when approaching the runway than the Aerlingus.....

Would that have anything to do with the shape of the wings on the Boeing ?? I even saw an Airlingus plane abort a landing and it was a good bit away from the runway.

chewits

Could be many factors. And its hard to know if you didnt have a listen through a scanner.

Could have been a gust when the EI was coming down.

Were they landing on the same runway?

The NG could have simply been heavier than the 320 causing a approach.

Im not sure where i heard but i believe the NG have a high landing speed and that FR pilots are trained to land it on the nosewheel.

Could be a million and one things to be honest.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3810040/Jet-is-battered-by-Hurricane-Katia-winds.html

Have a look at that. With approaches like that i'm sure engineers had their work cut out checking nacelles for scrapes etc. God knows some of the new effiecient turbo fan engines dont have much room for manevour.

highlydebased

Oh dear. Alot of what you claim to have observed would be the placebo effect (or its equivalent)

chewits

highlydebased wrote: »

Oh dear. Alot of what you claim to have observed would be the placebo effect (or its equivalent)

Perhaps.

Or perhaps different aircraft perform differently in different conditions.

pm.

highlydebased wrote: »

Oh dear. Alot of what you claim to have observed would be the placebo effect (or its equivalent)

Just stating my opinion.... BTW I have nothing against AL and they are always my preferred operator but they didnt look as comfortable landing today as FR

globemaster1986

pm. wrote: »

Just stating my opinion.... BTW I have nothing against AL and they are always my preferred operator but they didnt look as comfortable landing today as FR

The demonstrated crosswind, including gusts, is 38 KTs for A320 and 34KTs for 737-800 to the best of my knowledge

View Profile

it seemed that the Ryanair planes had more control when approaching the runway than the Aerlingus.....

That's because the pilots are better.

...and that FR pilots are trained to land it on the nosewheel.

No they are not.

There's a long running debate whether Airbus aircraft are more difficult to control in crosswind and gusty conditions during the flare.

I personally don't know if there is any truth behind it but the "automation" involved in the Airbus may be a contributing factor. Possibly!?

Su Campu

Sorry - they're trained to land it on the nosewheel??! :eek: I think you're wrong there. The first thing student pilots are taught is the flare and how to NOT land on the nosewheel!

drdeadlift

Been a plane spotter since i was a nipper.Dont want to add fire to an airbus v boeing debate but from what i have seen in the past 17 years the 737 has had less go arounds in hairy conditions than the 319/20/21.Even yesterday every fr was alot more stable on finals than any of the rest.
Im not a pilot so i dont know what the facts are but from what i have seen boeings seem better at it.

pm.

drdeadlift wrote: »

Been a plane spotter since i was a nipper.Dont want to add fire to an airbus v boeing debate but from what i have seen in the past 17 years the 737 has had less go arounds in hairy conditions than the 319/20/21.Even yesterday every fr was alot more stable on finals than any of the rest.
Im not a pilot so i dont know what the facts are but from what i have seen boeings seem better at it.

My point exactly.....

APM

The only people recently that appear to be landing on nosewheels are Aer Arann. Ryanair certainly don't train it as said above.

I watched about 1hr of landings yesterday and it looked like the 737's in general were doing a far better job than the Airbuses.

The only airbus that didn't go hugely wing low in the flare was the Air Mediterranee A321. Lufthansa and Aer Lingus all landed well short of the glideslope antenna and made E5 exit from RWY28. Airbusses looked to be landing much harder too.

Scandanvian and Ryanair 737's didn't go anywhere near as wing low and looked far more in control in the flare/touchdown.

Wind-reports were roughly the same for everyone involved and nobody reported any windshear afterwards. (when I was there)

APM

globemaster1986 wrote: »

The demonstrated crosswind, including gusts, is 38 KTs for A320 and 34KTs for 737-800 to the best of my knowledge

737-800 without winglets is 34kts, with winglets is 33kts. Reason being was when the aircraft was getting certified, Boeing were unable to find somewhere to crosswind strong enough to increase the limit. For certification, the wind-speed must be demonstrated to the authority.


From b737.org.uk
"
Finally, the dry “maximum demonstrated” crosswind limit is slightly reduced with winglets to 34kts. According to APB this is because “the FAA will only let us document the max winds experienced during flight test... so if we had been able to find more crosswind, then the 33kts might have been more. There appears to be no weather cocking effect due to winglets.”

globemaster1986

APM wrote: »

737-800 without winglets is 34kts, with winglets is 33kts. Reason being was when the aircraft was getting certified, Boeing were unable to find somewhere to crosswind strong enough to increase the limit. For certification, the wind-speed must be demonstrated to the authority.


From b737.org.uk
"
Finally, the dry “maximum demonstrated” crosswind limit is slightly reduced with winglets to 34kts. According to APB this is because “the FAA will only let us document the max winds experienced during flight test... so if we had been able to find more crosswind, then the 33kts might have been more. There appears to be no weather cocking effect due to winglets.”

I was accounting for the 1kt deviation for the winglets, the crosswind limit for the aircraft without winglets is 35kts afaik. The quote above seems to contradict itself initially saying 34kts with winglets!

Cannot find anything official on boeing's website but the 737.org article suggests 34kts and guys on pprune say their Ops manual says 34kts also:
http://www.b737.org.uk/winglets.htm

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/364605-max-cross-wind-componant-b-737-800-a.html