minimum deer calibre

goshawker

hi lads just wondering whats the minimum deer legal calibre in the republic
cheers in advance

tomcat220t

goshawker wrote: »

hi lads just wondering whats the minimum deer legal calibre in the republic
cheers in advance

22-250

FOXHUNTER1

Most people will say 22/250 but there are .220swifts licenced for deer aswell.

rowa

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

Most people will say 22/250 but there are .220swifts licenced for deer aswell.

I am surprised , i was told the npws was using the .243 winchester round as a minimum.

FOXHUNTER1

rowa wrote: »

I am surprised , i was told the npws was using the .243 winchester round as a minimum.

I've seen two stalking permits for swift one of the lads has been stalking with it for years.

tfox

minimum .22 calibre with 55 grain weight, reccommended by npws is .243 min

FOXHUNTER1

tfox wrote: »

minimum .22 calibre with 55 grain weight, reccommended by npws is .243 min

They can recommend what they like but the fact is they've issued licences for swift no problem.

Longranger

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

Most people will say 22/250 but there are .220swifts licenced for deer aswell.

Currently,the LAW SAYS MINIMUM 22-250 55gr. Where did you see someone with a licence for a swift???

Cass

A .22 caliber centrefire rifle, using a minimum 55gr bullet with a minimum 1,700ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.

A Swift would meet these requirements, but when you can get .243, 6.5, .270, and .308 licensed for the job why bother.

FOXHUNTER1

Longranger wrote: »

Currently,the LAW SAYS MINIMUM 22-250 55gr. Where did you see someone with a licence for a swift???

I've seen two one of which has been licenced for several years now and using 60gr hornady.

FOXHUNTER1

Ezridax wrote: »

A .22 caliber centrefire rifle, using a minimum 55gr bullet with a minimum 1,700ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.

A Swift would meet these requirements, but when you can get .243, 6.5, .270, and .308 licensed for the job why bother.

I think the only reason for using the swift is that these guys already had the rifles and didn't see the reason for changing them and spending a load of money to move up to a .243 or .270 etc
If you were starting out at deer and didn't have a centrefire rifle then it would be silly to buy the swift as .243 is cheaper to run.

Longranger

Fair enough,I was just wondering as npws site specifies 22-250,that's all.

tfox

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

They can recommend what they like but the fact is they've issued licences for swift no problem.

you posted while I was writing mine, wasnt trying to disagree just telling the op what the exact requirements are.

teckel

22.250 minimum
Dont go for anything smaller than 243 though

kildare.17hmr

teckel wrote: »

22.250 minimum
Dont go for anything smaller than 243 though

plenty of lads have great success with the 22.250

Tackleberrywho

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

plenty of lads have great success with the 22.250

True, but most who went up a calibre never went back.
Sourcing the approved ammo can be also difficult where as even the lightest 58 grain Hornady .243 is deer legal.

And the 100 grain stuff has 200ftlbs more than the heaviest .22-250 at the muzzle.

And the .308 @200 yards has what the .243 has @ muzzle

so aim small, hit big

Half-cocked

NPWS now require a 60gr minimum bullet weight. This is the 2nd season with this requirement. Lot of .22-250's out there won't shoot 60gr as accurately as 55gr, so if you're getting a new rifle, go minimum .243.

Cass

Half-cocked wrote: »

NPWS now require a 60gr minimum bullet weight. This is the 2nd season with this requirement.

Where did you find out this? Even their online downloadable application styill says 55gr minimum.

Lot of .22-250's out there won't shoot 60gr as accurately as 55gr

I think thats a mistake. From a quick check the 60gr actually carries less energy than the 55 gr in .22/250. Its still legal, but only.

, so if you're getting a new rifle, go minimum .243.

Absolutely.

Half-cocked

Ezridax wrote: »

Where did you find out this? Even their online downloadable application styill says 55gr minimum.

If you put 55gr on your application it will be rejected. Happened to me last year. I rang Ballybay who said 60gr was the new minimum. Their software for processing applications no longer lists 55gr on the pull down menu so they can't enter it. I rang the IDS who confirmed 60gr as the minimum. I reapplied listing 60gr and got my license.

(although I suspect a 55gr bullet fired from a 26" barrel will have more muzzle energy than a 60gr from a 22" - another example of arbitary decisions being made by the uninformed)

I've been told by a couple of gunsmiths that most .22-250's have the wrong twist rate for bullets heavier than 55gr. My own experience with 60gr backs this up.

rowa

Anyone using the 6.5 creedmoor for deer ?

tomcat220t

rowa wrote: »

Anyone using the 6.5 creedmoor for deer ?

Cant see many hunters having much interest in the 6.5 creedmoor with the 6.5x55 around .Id say it would be a nice round ,all the same

323

Know of one person who actually got a deer licence with a .223

Cass

How?

I know of no factory ammo from a .223 that can achieve the minimum standards set out by the NPWS/Gov.

rowa

323 wrote: »

Know of one person who actually got a deer licence with a .223

Even if you could why would you want to ? To the best of my knowledge the muzzle energy of a .223 is around 1200 ft/lbs which is way below the 1700 required by the law.

tac foley

Here's a handy little m/e calculator - just fill in the boxes -

http://www.reloadammo.com/footpound2.htm

Shows that in .223 calibre a 70gr bullet making 3350fps = 1744.2 ft lbs

tac

323

Ezridax wrote: »

How?

I know of no factory ammo from a .223 that can achieve the minimum standards set out by the NPWS/Gov.

How?

I have no idea, did not believe it when I was first told.
Great little cartridge but not for deer.

Tackleberrywho

323 wrote: »

How?

I have no idea, did not believe it when I was first told.
Great little cartridge but not for deer.

75 grain doing 3200 fps is deer legal, but you need homemade rounds to get that so not an Irish option.

a friend of mine has a .223 for his son in US and they shoot deer, son is 14!

rowa

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

75 grain doing 3200 fps is deer legal, but you need homemade rounds to get that so not an Irish option.

a friend of mine has a .223 for his son in US and they shoot deer, son is 14!

Can you physically get enough powder into a small case like the .223 to propel a 75 grain bullet to those speeds though ?

Tackleberrywho

rowa wrote: »

Can you physically get enough powder into a small case like the .223 to propel a 75 grain bullet to those speeds though ?

I would not know, as I don't reload.
I would assume that different powders would be used to generate the pressure

rowa

62 grain TSX
27.5 grains Varget
Win. cases
Win. primer
3400 FPS aprox.
aprox 1500 foot pounds energy
Gun ar15 Bushmaster SS varmit
1-9" twist stainless bull barrel

This is about the hottest load i can find on the web and is copied from someone in america who uses this combo to shoot deer legally in his state, at 1500 ft/lbs its still a long way shy of the 1700 ft/lbs required by law.

Tackleberrywho

rowa wrote: »

62 grain TSX
27.5 grains Varget
Win. cases
Win. primer
3400 FPS aprox.
aprox 1500 foot pounds energy
Gun ar15 Bushmaster SS varmit
1-9" twist stainless bull barrel

This is about the hottest load i can find on the web and is copied from someone in america who uses this combo to shoot deer legally in his state, at 1500 ft/lbs its still a long way shy of the 1700 ft/lbs required by law.

75 grain will do 3200 with same powder and thus get 1745

tomcat220t

If the .22-250 bearly scraps the min 1700lbs ,cant see the .223 reaching that figure .And thats basing the .22-250 on factory stated velocity ,not real world figures .

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

If the .22-250 bearly scraps the min 1700lbs ,cant see the .223 reaching that figure .And thats basing the .22-250 on factory stated velocity ,not real world figures .

75 grain @ 3200 is the goal TC. Got an app on the phone that does all the number crunching
it's not real world, it's fantasy reload world;);)

tomcat220t

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

75 grain @ 3200 is the goal TC. Got an app on the phone that does all the number crunching
it's not real world, it's fantasy reload world;);)

I would say that the 75gr match would be a very high weight retention round .Hardly ideal ,even on close shots with medium game .Just aswell we are talking (fantasy shooting )

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

I would say that the 75gr match would be a very high weight retention round .Hardly ideal ,even on close shots with medium game .Just aswell we are talking (fantasy shooting )

Tell the foxes that :eek:;)

landkeeper

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

75 grain will do 3200 with same powder and thus get 1745

you can't just up the bullet weight with the same powder charge as the pressure will be too high ie burst barrel

tomcat220t

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Tell the foxes that :eek:;)

If they work ,they work bud:D:D.So they expand well on foxes ?Sounds good

323

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

75 grain doing 3200 fps is deer legal, but you need homemade rounds to get that so not an Irish option.

a friend of mine has a .223 for his son in US and they shoot deer, son is 14!

Agree with you.

Had many debates with friend in the US who used to use the 223 for whitetail, South Texas whitetail are small though. Big antlers, small body.

Problem is, almost all of the bullets made for this bore are designed as vermin bullets, break up quickly, so by handloading it really hot you would probably end up with a round breaking up before getting much past the skin of a deer, very little penetration.
Could be wrong but think the only exception is the much harder bullets made for the 5.6 RWS, that used to be popular in Ireland. It was designed to hunt deer and to satisfy the minimum legal requirements (in Germany) for retained energy at 200 meters.

Personally believe none of the centrefire .22's should be considered for deer, go with .243/6mm bore or bigger, myself I prefer bigger.

tomcat220t

landkeeper wrote: »

you can't just up the bullet weight with the same powder charge as the pressure will be too high ie burst barrel

As he said ,its only theory (fantasy reloading ).

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

If they work ,they work bud:D:D.So they expand well on foxes ?Sounds good

I used 2 boxes of Hornady TAP 75 grain and one box 75 grain Superformance Match.
Both minced foxes but only punctured rabbits.

@ landkeeper, this is only fantasy talk as we can't reload

323

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

@ landkeeper, this is only fantasy talk as we can't reload

True, but I can remember a time when the same was said of us ever hunting with anything bigger than a 22-250 or 5.6. Optimistic dreaming maybe but here's hoping.

landkeeper

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I used 2 boxes of Hornady TAP 75 grain and one box 75 grain Superformance Match.
Both minced foxes but only punctured rabbits.

@ landkeeper, this is only fantasy talk as we can't reload

i know that , at least your on your home turf then tack :cool:

Tackleberrywho

landkeeper wrote: »

i know that , at least your on your home turf then tack :cool:

?

tomcat220t

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

?

I think it was a poor attemt a humor ,tack:o:o.

Dusty87

tomcat220t wrote: »

I think it was a poor attemt a humor ,tack:o:o.

MeeeOOWWW!!!!

Glensman

landkeeper wrote: »

you can't just up the bullet weight with the same powder charge as the pressure will be too high ie burst barrel

I'll check the reloading manual when I get home and let you know what it says...

Of course twist rate, length of barrel etc. will be a factor.

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

I think it was a poor attemt a humor ,tack:o:o.

Oh... Ok. I did not see the joke........