Oil Leak - Help

Help2

Calling anybody who can help!!

My mate helped me to service my car, since he had done his own once before.. and he has the trolley jack and axle stands. (car is 1.1 litre 2005 mitsubishi colt 3 door)

Anyway i have noticed a small oil leak...oil on the driveway etc...After about 1000 - 1200km (600/750 miles) over a month, the oil has moved from near the "dont add oil" level on the dipstick to near the "add oil" on the dipstick.

I have added about 400ml - half a litre of oil and it is full again. If i do this for another 9000miles before another service then i will use an extra 5/6litres of oil.. and the oil i used is expensive..

I reckon the oil may be leaking from the drain plug.. but this is only a guess. I can think of two possible causes.

1. We never installed a new seal to the drain plug (some sort of ring came with the filter.. never bothered using it as we didnt know what it was for! we are novices after all!! Link to the Photo of this thing at the bottom of this post)

2. We never added oil to the new oil filter.. my mate just rubbed the new oil filter and the oil filter together.. thinking that would do..

So my question to anybody who can help is how do i stop this oil leak????

Will i have to empty out the oil and do it properly this time, or is there a way of stopping the leak???

Thanks


2011-09-11 19.21.32 by doylerandrew, on Flickr

Avns1s

You need to find the source.

If it's coming from the oil bung, then the likelhood is that it has worked loose, givent that there was no leak for some time after the service. It could drop off completely and loose all the remaining oil in the sump in the space of several seconds.

You should also check the oil filter seal. I have seen these to fail on spurious filters even when fitted properly. The oil is under pressure at the filter when the enging is running and a leak here could also get worse very quickly.

alanmc

doylerandrew wrote: »

Calling anybody who can help!!

My mate helped me to service my car, since he had done his own once before.. and he has the trolley jack and axle stands. (car is 1.1 litre 2005 mitsubishi colt 3 door)

Anyway i have noticed a small oil leak...oil on the driveway etc...After about 1000 - 1200km (600/750 miles) over a month, the oil has moved from near the "dont add oil" level on the dipstick to near the "add oil" on the dipstick.

I have added about 400ml - half a litre of oil and it is full again. If i do this for another 9000miles before another service then i will use an extra 5/6litres of oil.. and the oil i used is expensive..

I reckon the oil may be leaking from the drain plug.. but this is only a guess. I can think of two possible causes.

1. We never installed a new seal to the drain plug (some sort of ring came with the filter.. never bothered using it as we didnt know what it was for! we are novices after all!! Link to the Photo of this thing at the bottom of this post)

2. We never added oil to the new oil filter.. my mate just rubbed the new oil filter and the oil filter together.. thinking that would do..

So my question to anybody who can help is how do i stop this oil leak????

Will i have to empty out the oil and do it properly this time, or is there a way of stopping the leak???

Thanks
[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/67492188@N08/6136930515/&quot; title="2011-09-11 19.21.32 by doylerandrew, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6175/6136930515_957fa3249d.jpg&quot; width="500" height="375" alt="2011-09-11 19.21.32"></a>[/IMG]

That ring in your photo is the sump washer. It's sometimes a soft copper crush washer that crushes when you tighten the sump plug making a good seal. Looks like that in your photo. If you re-used the old sump washer, then this could be where the leak is coming from.

The leak could be coming from the oil filter either (unlikely though). It seals with a rubber seal and you usually just have to do these up hand tight.

If it was me, I'd get under the car and seee exacty where the leak is coming from. If it is the sump plug, then I'd do the oil change again and do it properly with the new sump washer.

Help2

alanmc wrote: »

That ring in your photo is the sump washer. It's sometimes a soft copper crush washer that crushes when you tighten the sump plug making a good seal. Looks like that in your photo. If you re-used the old sump washer, then this could be where the leak is coming from.

The leak could be coming from the oil filter either (unlikely though). It seals with a rubber seal and you usually just have to do these up hand tight.

If it was me, I'd get under the car and seee exacty where the leak is coming from. If it is the sump plug, then I'd do the oil change again and do it properly with the new sump washer.

Cheers.. When you say sump plug i presume your chatting about the drain plug?

If i was to drain the oil again, i can just put the same oil back in since its only a month old?

Help2

Avns1s wrote: »

You need to find the source.

If it's coming from the oil bung, then the likelhood is that it has worked loose, givent that there was no leak for some time after the service. It could drop off completely and loose all the remaining oil in the sump in the space of several seconds.

You should also check the oil filter seal. I have seen these to fail on spurious filters even when fitted properly. The oil is under pressure at the filter when the enging is running and a leak here could also get worse very quickly.

Sounds alarming,, ive been putting checking this on the long finger.. but will try get under the car soon!!

I will have to invest in the jack stands and trolley jack so i dont have to rely on my mates tools!

keithclancy

More than Likely the sump plug.

alanmc

doylerandrew wrote: »

Cheers.. When you say sump plug i presume your chatting about the drain plug?

If i was to drain the oil again, i can just put the same oil back in since its only a month old?

Using the same oil should be ok. Just make sure the container you drain it into is spotlessly clean. You don't want *any* foreign bodies in there at all.

Having said that if it was me, I'd invest in new oil just for peace of mind.

And definitely get yourself a set of axle stands. Don't climb under the car if its only supported by a jack.

But check the sump plug first, it may just need to be nipped up a little tighter.

Nissan doctor

If you reused the old sump plug washer then this is definatly a possibility.

Hoever it is also possible that the old oil filter rubber seal stayed on the block, when you fit a new filter on with the old seal still in place then it will usually leak.

Help2

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If you reused the old sump plug washer then this is definatly a possibility.

Hoever it is also possible that the old oil filter rubber seal stayed on the block, when you fit a new filter on with the old seal still in place then it will usually leak.

Interesting, so would you recommend I do this???:

1) drain the oil, and refit sump plug with new washer..
2)then take out oil filter and check if there are two rubber seals? The new one and the old one??

Does a rubber seal come with an oil filter or are you supposed to get this seperately?

3) Put back in the engine oil; check level, top up if required.

Thanks for the help! Oh and any recommendations on where to get a decent trolley jack and axle stands??:)

lomb

Ive never replaced drain plug crush washers and done around say 25 oil changes over the years on various family cars. To be honest the only leak I ever had was from an oil filter that wasn't done up properly. Id just give the drain plug another tighten and give the oil filter a good half turn to tighten it using a good oil filter wrench. Dont tighten the drain plug too much as you could strip the threads on the sump.

lomb

doylerandrew wrote: »

Oh and any recommendations on where to get a decent trolley jack and axle stands??:)

If you intend on doing this for a few years or on family cars then make your own. Youll need a chainsaw, some wood glue , a few lengths of timber and some screws. Ive made 4 and they are the safest way of lifting a car. I wouldnt trust tubular metal ramps, the welds could let go. Make sure the handbrake is up and its in gear and consider putting axle stands under too for a belt and braces approach.
http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=678572

In the mean time Id just drive one side onto a high curb and you should be good to go.

bryaner

lomb wrote: »

Ive never replaced drain plug crush washers and done around say 25 oil changes over the years on various family cars. To be honest the only leak I ever had was from an oil filter that wasn't done up properly. Id just give the drain plug another tighten and give the oil filter a good half turn to tighten it using a good oil filter wrench. Dont tighten the drain plug too much as you could strip the threads on the sump.

Never use an oil filter wrench when tightening a filter, hand tight is more than enough.

lomb

bryaner wrote: »

Never use an oil filter wrench when tightening a filter, hand tight is more than enough.

Obviously not if the one I did came loose after 10 miles. I think but am not sure its hand tighten and another quarter turn. I think I give it a bit more than that just in case,probably another quarter on top of that. Ive never had any bother getting off the ones Ive tightened up but had terrible trouble getting off garage tightened ones and ended up buying 3 different kinds of wrench to get it off. Just gos to show the pros dont mess around with just hand tightening.

bryaner

lomb wrote: »

Obviously not if the one I did came loose after 10 miles. I think but am not sure its hand tighten and another quarter turn. I think I give it a bit more than that just in case,probably another quarter on top of that. Ive never had any bother getting off the ones Ive tightened up but had terrible trouble getting off garage tightened ones and ended up buying 3 different kinds of wrench to get it off. Just gos to show the pros dont mess around with just hand tightening.

I've always hand tightened 100's of filters and never a leak.

Help2

2011-09-13 15.30.20 by doylerandrew, on Flickr

Took this dodgy photo..i wont be able to have a proper look untill tomorrow.. looks like its leaking from the drain plug area..

snowman707

doylerandrew wrote: »

2011-09-13 15.30.20 by doylerandrew, on Flickr

Took this dodgy photo..i wont be able to have a proper look untill tomorrow.. looks like its leaking from the drain plug area..

hard too see but that washer looks knackered, did some body use a vice grips on the plug?

Nissan doctor

Agreed, It looks like the washer has split and is pushed out from the side of the plug.

Just drain the new oil into a clean container, fit the new washer that you got before and then refill the oil again and you'll be right.

Help2

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Agreed, It looks like the washer has split and is pushed out from the side of the plug.

Just drain the new oil into a clean container, fit the new washer that you got before and then refill the oil again and you'll be right.

Cheers mate. thats whatll have to be done.. im not sure about jacking the car up... never done this before so not comfortable getting under the car...im copying this message i made from another thread i made.. any thoughts?? thanks...

COPIED FROM MY OTHER THREAD

Ok... im clueless about cars so i need help from somebody who is a mechanic or a experienced DIY mechanic....

- Today i bought a hydraulic car jack and axles stands from halfords... i wanted to try and sort out an oil leak and change my coolant too.

- Anyway i used the hydraulic jack on the same place as where you would use the scissor jack that came with the car... notch type place.

- Im guessing i shouldnt of done that... because when i was lowering the jack after removing the axle stands, i heard a very audible noise...cracking..crunching..not to sure...

Anyway there was little flakes of metal on the jack (not much)...

I have since discovered that this is where i should be using the axle stands...(see image below from workshop manual.. the regular owners manual doesnt give details about where to put axle stands and where to use the hydraulic jack etc)

Now im worried i may have made the notch unsafe to use, and that it will be unsafe to get under car. Have pictures beforehand but didnt think to take a photo afterwards, but will do in the morning and upload.

I might just get mechanic to sort out the oil leak and do the coolant change (I have the coolant/anti freeze mixture.. just wanted to save money as im broke)...

Anyway, any thoughts in the meantime would be good... thanks.


2011-09-13 15.36.33 by help212, on Flickr


axle stands by help212, on Flickr


car jack by help212, on Flickr

Nissan doctor

You won't have made anything unsafe IMO. The sill points(where the notches are) are painted and have rust proofing sprayed on them so some paint flakes etc is normal when you jack it up.

If you want you can jack the car a little to the left of the notches and then put the axle stand a little to the right, as close as you can get to the notches. You'll be fine then.

Help2

I think this should be sorted now... the washer was very bent... photos:

Drain plug beforehand


2011-09-14 11.15.25 by help212, on Flickr

Old washer and New washer


2011-09-14 11.28.23 by help212, on Flickr

Afterwards


2011-09-14 11.35.40 by help212, on Flickr

Henry Ford III

Looks much better.

bryaner

I'd keep your mate well away from your motor, I'm sure he meant well but thats a butcher of a job..

bryaner

bryaner wrote: »

I'd keep your mate well away from your motor, I'm sure he meant well but thats a butcher of a job..

Yep, awful job, local gravedigger would have done less damage with a mini digger on it.

Hiace.

lomb wrote: »

Ive never replaced drain plug crush washers and done around say 25 oil changes over the years on various family cars. .

Did you think they are just supplied and recommended for the craic ?

Hiace.

Hiace. wrote: »

Did you think they are just supplied and recommended for the craic ?

In fairness I'm in the same boat, I've only ever replaced one and that was on the first oil change I ever did. A visual and tactile inspection of the existing washer tells a lot, I've never seen one that was marked or squashed and I've never had a drop leak from a sump plug.

Rightly or wrongly.

Hiace.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You won't have made anything unsafe IMO. The sill points(where the notches are) are painted and have rust proofing sprayed on them so some paint flakes etc is normal when you jack it up.

If you want you can jack the car a little to the left of the notches and then put the axle stand a little to the right, as close as you can get to the notches. You'll be fine then.

While we're on the topic, what sort of jack pads / blocks do people here like to use ? Any handier tips ?

lomb

Hiace. wrote: »

Did you think they are just supplied and recommended for the craic ?

Supplied with what? Id happily replace the washer but where do I get one from? I persume there are different sizes, and if I dont preorder from say VW then what am I going to use. The motor factor wouldnt know what size was used and would be more likely to leak that the existing one. The fact that I havent had any leaks means I dont overtighten the washer hence it doesnt really get damaged. My own car is on its 8th oil change from new and no leaks yet.

Halfords sell them with sump plugs, most decent factors would have a labelled tray of them too. I, like yourself though don't change them ever.

snowman707

RoverJames wrote: »

In fairness I'm in the same boat, I've only ever replaced one and that was on the first oil change I ever did. A visual and tactile inspection of the existing washer tells a lot, I've never seen one that was marked or squashed and I've never had a drop leak from a sump plug.

Rightly or wrongly.

ditto, we very very rarely change them

alanmc

lomb wrote: »

Supplied with what? Id happily replace the washer but where do I get one from? I persume there are different sizes, and if I dont preorder from say VW then what am I going to use. The motor factor wouldnt know what size was used and would be more likely to leak that the existing one. The fact that I havent had any leaks means I dont overtighten the washer hence it doesnt really get damaged. My own car is on its 8th oil change from new and no leaks yet.

It usually comes in the oil filter box .... does when I get a filter from Nissan anyway. Generally if the oil filter fits the engine, the sump washer size is known.

Help2

lomb wrote: »

Supplied with what? Id happily replace the washer but where do I get one from? I persume there are different sizes, and if I dont preorder from say VW then what am I going to use. The motor factor wouldnt know what size was used and would be more likely to leak that the existing one. The fact that I havent had any leaks means I dont overtighten the washer hence it doesnt really get damaged. My own car is on its 8th oil change from new and no leaks yet.

Maybe the last washer was damaged because somebody overtightened the plug....

How tight is ideal?? I just tightened it untill it became difficult to go any further...

I stopped when i would of had to pull very hard on the ratchet to make it any tighter.....

Nissan doctor

doylerandrew wrote: »

Maybe the last washer was damaged because somebody overtightened the plug....

How tight is ideal?? I just tightened it untill it became difficult to go any further...

I stopped when i would of had to pull very hard on the ratchet to make it any tighter.....

That old washer was defiantly damaged by over tightening. Maybe you can pass on some of the advice your getting here to your mate:P

Help2

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That old washer was defiantly damaged by over tightening. Maybe you can pass on some of the advice your getting here to your mate:P

haha cheers, so do you reckon from my description above that i over-tightened it or is it grand!? started a thread on it here..
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056389398

Hiace.

lomb wrote: »

Supplied with what? Id happily replace the washer but where do I get one from? I persume there are different sizes, and if I dont preorder from say VW then what am I going to use. The motor factor wouldnt know what size was used and would be more likely to leak that the existing one. The fact that I havent had any leaks means I dont overtighten the washer hence it doesnt really get damaged. My own car is on its 8th oil change from new and no leaks yet.

RoverJames wrote: »

Halfords sell them with sump plugs, most decent factors would have a labelled tray of them too. I, like yourself though don't change them ever.

snowman707 wrote: »

ditto, we very very rarely change them

Just stating the facts lads, a new copper washer is supposed to be fitted each time.
Not really my fault if you were never shown properly /don't want to do it.

Hiace.

Hiace. wrote: »

Just stating the facts lads, a new copper washer is supposed to be fitted each time.
Not really my fault if you were never shown properly /don't want to do it.

Who said anything is your fault? To be honest I don't intend on ever changing one unless I encounter one that looks or feels damaged.

Hiace.

RoverJames wrote: »

Who said anything is your fault? To be honest I don't intend on ever changing one unless I encounter one that looks or feels damaged.

Do what you like on your own car of course, but I hope you aren't servicing other people’s cars that way.

alanmc

RoverJames wrote: »

To be honest I don't intend on ever changing one unless I encounter one that looks or feels damaged.

Might be a bit of a pain if you realise you do need one, when the car is up on stands, the engine is dry and you don't have a washer to hand.

Also, the washer on my car is a crush washer. It deforms when the sump plug is torqued down. More prone to springing a leak if reused. The washer in the OP looks to be solid though.

unkel

alanmc wrote: »

Might be a bit of a pain if you realise you do need one, when the car is up on stands, the engine is dry and you don't have a washer to hand.

Been there

Not with the washer but with the sump plug :eek:

It might indeed be a pain should I encounter a crush washer unexpectedly

snowman707

Hiace. wrote: »

Just stating the facts lads, a new copper washer is supposed to be fitted each time.
Not really my fault if you were never shown properly /don't want to do it.

I have seen incorrect size and thickness washers supplied in kits


a little common sense is all that is needed, if a item needs changing well and good but in theory if a plug is tightened to the correct torque, it should certainly not need a new washer every time,

Nissan doctor

This whole conversation also highlights why it is correct practice to run a car up to temperature after an oil change to check for any leaks before you start driving around.

Indeed, and to have a peak at it the following day too just in case.

Hiace.

snowman707 wrote: »

I have seen incorrect size and thickness washers supplied in kits

a little common sense is all that is needed, if a item needs changing well and good but in theory if a plug is tightened to the correct torque, it should certainly not need a new washer every time,

Since when did two wrongs make a right ?

Just because you can usually get away with re-using a 5 cent washer does not make it good/standard practice. I know some people love to congratulate themselves on bodge/chancer jobs, but it doesn't make it sound practice. You're only kidding yourselves lads.