Israel to sponsor terrorism

Brown Bomber · 11-09-2011 1:17am #1

In the fall-out from Israel killing innocent, unarmed people on a boat in international waters and the refusing to even apologise Israeli Foriegn Minister the racist, right-wing nutcase Avigdor Lieberman who lobbies for ethnically cleansing Israel of Arabs who are natives of the land though he is Russian born is set to meet with Kurdish terrorist group the PKK.

(Listed as terrorists by the US State Dept- http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2006/82738.htm )

Lieberman is also planning to set meetings with the heads of Kurdish rebel group PKK in Europe in order to “cooperate with them and boost them in every possible area.” In these meetings, the Kurds may ask Israel for military aid in the form of training and arms supplies, a move that would constitute a major anti-Turkish position should it materialize.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4119984,00.html

Jeboa Safari · 11-09-2011 5:15pm

Misleading title, and Netanyahu has distanced himself from the comments

Brown Bomber · 11-09-2011 10:00pm

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Misleading title

No. Not at all. Israel's Foriegn Minister has said that he is scheduling meetings with the terrorist group PKK to “cooperate with them and boost them in every possible area.” meaning terrorist training, financing, bombs and guns.

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Netanyahu has distanced himself from the comments

So? Bibi is proven liar. The denials of a liar mean nothing.

What is comical about this is that the US who will continue to flow money to Israel could be indirectly supporting a group that they themselves have designated as terrorists.

Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project, 561 U. S. ____ (2010), was a case decided in June 2010 by the United States Supreme Court regarding the USA PATRIOT Act (18 U. S. C. §2339B) which prohibits material support to groups designated as terrorists. The court held these types of support - “training,” “expert advice or assistance,” “service,” and “personnel” - were constitutional as applied to the forms of support that plaintiffs in the case, represented by the Humanitarian Law Project, sought to provide to foreign terrorist organizations. The plaintiffs sought to help the Kurdistan Workers’ Party in Turkey and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam learn means of peacefully resolving conflicts.[1]

What's not so funny is that the PKK target civilians.

Of course there is grounds to believe that they are already are supporting the PKK. For example,

The Kurdish Workers' Party (PKK) has fought a long and bloody battle against Turkey that has claimed more than 40,000 lives. After the occupation of Iraq in 2003, Israel established a presence in northern Kurdistan in Iraq. The Israelis were mainly training the Iraqi Kurdistan army, but as Seymour Hersh revealed in a 2004 article in the New Yorker magazine, they also trained Kurdish militants for information-gathering, sabotage and destabilization operations in Iran and Syria. Turkish officials were aware and did not approve. They kept quiet since relations between the two countries were still good and Israel kept its distance from the PKK.

However, the recent change of the tide in relations gave Israel a new perspective on its activities in the area. On March 8, the English-language Turkish newspaper Today's Zaman revealed that the Turkish National Intelligence Organization (MIT) had prepared an intelligence report suggesting that the PKK and Israel had been forging new ties.

The MIT report included interviews with PKK militants who had surrendered to the security forces and confessed that Mossad (Israeli intelligence) officials participated in their training.

The more controversial part of the MIT report was footage taken from an interview in which PKK second-in-command Murat Karayilan said the PKK attacked the Iskenderun naval base during the May 2010 flotilla crisis and revealed that the PKK and Israel worked together during the attack on the Mavi Marmara. No information was forthcoming about the nature of the cooperation, but the first thing that comes to mind is the assault on Iskenderun.

The assault took place on May 31, 2010, just few hours before the Israeli navy's raid on the aid flotilla. The attack left seven soldiers dead and six injured. Iskenderun Naval Base is located on the northeast coast of the Mediterranean Sea and hosts the largest of Turkey's three naval training centers.

Government officials were suspicious of Israeli involvement but did not have any evidence, thus rather than directly blaming Israel they pointed out the timing of the attacks on the Mavi Marmara and the naval base. Huseyin Celik, deputy chairman of the AKP stated, "We do not think it's a coincidence that these two attacks took place at the same time." http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MC16Ak02.html

jackiebaron · 12-09-2011 7:36pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No. Not at all. Israel's Foriegn Minister has said that he is scheduling meetings with the terrorist group PKK to “cooperate with them and boost them in every possible area.” meaning terrorist training, financing, bombs and guns.

So? Bibi is proven liar. The denials of a liar mean nothing.

What is comical about this is that the US who will continue to flow money to Israel could be indirectly supporting a group that they themselves have designated as terrorists.

Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project, 561 U. S. ____ (2010), was a case decided in June 2010 by the United States Supreme Court regarding the USA PATRIOT Act (18 U. S. C. §2339B) which prohibits material support to groups designated as terrorists. The court held these types of support - “training,” “expert advice or assistance,” “service,” and “personnel” - were constitutional as applied to the forms of support that plaintiffs in the case, represented by the Humanitarian Law Project, sought to provide to foreign terrorist organizations. The plaintiffs sought to help the Kurdistan Workers’ Party in Turkey and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam learn means of peacefully resolving conflicts.[1]

What's not so funny is that the PKK target civilians.

Of course there is grounds to believe that they are already are supporting the PKK. For example,

This thug, Lieberman is human scum and Netanyahu is no better. Whatever happened to that other bottom-feeder Olmert and his vermin son(s) taking backhanders and then preaching righteousnous. Don't hear much from that revolting tart, Tzipi Livni, of late either.

Brown Bomber · 12-09-2011 9:26pm

jackiebaron wrote: »

This thug, Lieberman is human scum and Netanyahu is no better. Whatever happened to that other bottom-feeder Olmert and his vermin son(s) taking backhanders and then preaching righteousnous. Don't hear much from that revolting tart, Tzipi Livni, of late either.

That'll be the international arrest warrants :pac:

mrmeindl · 12-09-2011 9:32pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In the fall-out from Israel killing innocent, unarmed people on a boat in international waters and the refusing to even apologise Israeli Foriegn Minister the racist, right-wing nutcase Avigdor Lieberman who lobbies for ethnically cleansing Israel of Arabs who are natives of the land though he is Russian born is set to meet with Kurdish terrorist group the PKK.

(Listed as terrorists by the US State Dept- http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2006/82738.htm )

Killing innocent unarmed people? Have you seen the video? Attacking troops with metal rods, disarming a soldier and attempting to use his pistol..all this after every effort was made to peacefully board the vessel, less lethal "paintball" guns were used. Not to mention ****ing bodyarmour and NVGs were found on on of the "relief ships", Aid ships for a place that manages to stock a ****ing shopping mall. What planet are you on? Maybe you got lost on the way to indymedia?

Brown Bomber · 12-09-2011 9:39pm

mrmeindl wrote: »

Killing innocent unarmed people? Have you seen the video? Attacking troops with metal rods, disarming a soldier and attempting to use his pistol..all this after every effort was made to peacefully board the vessel, less lethal "paintball" guns were used. Not to mention ****ing bodyarmour and NVGs were found on on of the "relief ships", Aid ships for a place that manages to stock a ****ing shopping mall. What planet are you on? Maybe you got lost on the way to indymedia?

Have you seen the autopsy reports?

Hint: autopsies are done on the dead.

Just googled "NVGs" fooking goggles hahahha.

Less funny I have to say is your insinuation that people who are intentionally placed on a diet of near-starvation through Nazi-like Israeli progarammes aren't in need of aid.

Monty Burnz · 12-09-2011 9:42pm

mrmeindl wrote: »

Killing innocent unarmed people? Have you seen the video? Attacking troops with metal rods, disarming a soldier and attempting to use his pistol..all this after every effort was made to peacefully board the vessel, less lethal "paintball" guns were used. Not to mention ****ing bodyarmour and NVGs were found on on of the "relief ships", Aid ships for a place that manages to stock a ****ing shopping mall. What planet are you on? Maybe you got lost on the way to indymedia?

If the people on the boat wanted firearms, they would have secured and brought firearms. I don't understand how special forces 'peacefully' board a boat either - if I was peacefully doing something, I'd be damn sure not to bring automatic weapons.

mrmeindl · 12-09-2011 10:05pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Have you seen the autopsy reports?

Hint: autopsies are done on the dead.

I didn't mention the dead terrorists so why would I bother reading their autopsys?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Just googled "NVGs" fooking goggles hahahha.

So for what peaceful purposes would Night Vision Goggles be required in Gaza?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Less funny I have to say is your insinuation that people who are intentionally placed on a diet of near-starvation

You say near starvation, so what is it...starving or not starving? How are they starving if they manage to build a shopping center?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Just through Nazi-like Israeli progarammes aren't in need of aid.

Dunno what your on about there.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

if I was peacefully doing something, I'd be damn sure not to bring automatic weapons.

So you'd fast rope unarmed onto a boat full of wannabe martyrs?

Pistols are semi automatic, the boarding party used FN303s.

Brown Bomber · 12-09-2011 10:53pm

mrmeindl wrote: »

I didn't mention the dead terrorists so why would I bother reading their autopsys?

The small matter of being aware of the facts before you make a tit of yourself in public -- y'know small things like celebrating the mass-murder of innocent people by a terrorist state?

You may want to look away now;)

Ibrahim Bilgen, a 60 year old Turkish citizen, from Siirt in Turkey, was on the top deck and was one of the first passengers to be shot. He received a bullet wound to the chest, the trajectory of which was from above and not at close range. He had a further two bullet wounds to the right side of the back and right buttock, both back to front. These wounds would not have caused instant death, but he would have bled to death within a short time without medical attention.

Forensic evidence shows that he was shot in the side of the head with a soft baton round at such close proximity and that an entire bean bag and its wadding penetrated the skull and lodged in the brain. He had a further bruise on the right flank consistent with another beanbag wound. The wounds are consistent with the deceased initially being shot from soldiers on board the helicopter above and receiving a further wound to the head while lying on the ground, already wounded.

Fahri Yaldiz, a 42 year old Turkish citizen from Adiyaman, received five bullet wounds, one to the chest, one to the left leg and three to the right leg. The chest wound was caused by a bullet that entered near the left nipple and hit the heart and lungs before exiting from the shoulder. This injury would have caused rapid death.

According to the pathology report, Ali Heyder Bengi, a 38 year old Turkish citizen from Diyarbakir, received six bullet wounds (one in the chest, one in the abdomen, one in the right arm, one in the right thigh and two in the left hand). One bullet lodged in the chest area.

None of the wounds would have been instantly fatal, but damage to the liver caused bleeding which would have been fatal if not stemmed. There are several witness accounts which suggest that Israeli soldiers shot the deceased in the back and chest at close range while he was lying on the deck as a consequence of initial bullet wounds.

Cevdet Kiliçlar, a 38 year old Turkish citizen from Istanbul, was on the Mavi Marmara, in his capacity as a photographer employed by IHH. At the moment he was shot he was standing on the bridge deck on the port side of the ship near to the door leading to the main stairwell and was attempting to photograph Israeli soldiers on the top deck.

According to the pathology reports, he received a single bullet to his forehead between the eyes. The bullet followed a horizontal trajectory which crossed the middle of the brain from front to back. He would have died instantly.

41 year old Cengiz Akyüz from Hatay and 46 year old Cengiz Songür from Izmir, both Turkish citizens, were injured on the bridge deck in close succession by live fire from above.They had been sheltering and were shot as they attempted to move inside the door leading to the stairwell. Cengiz Akyüz received a shot to the head and it is probable that he died instantly.

The pathology report shows four wounds: to the neck, face, chest and thigh. Cengiz Songür received a single bullet to the upper central thorax below the neck, shot from a high angle, which lodged in the right thoracic cavity injuring the heart and aorta. Unsuccessful efforts were made by doctors inside the ship to resuscitate him through heart massage.

Çetin Topçuoglu, a 54 year old Turkish citizen from Adana had been involved in helping to bring injured passengers inside the ship to be treated. He was also shot close to the door on the bridge deck. He did not die instantly and his wife, who was also on board the ship, was with him when he died. He was shot by three bullets. One bullet entered from the top the soft tissues of the right side of the back of the head, exited from the neck and then re-entered into the thorax. Another bullet entered the left buttock and lodged in the right pelvis. The third entered the right groin and exited from the lower back. There are indications that the victim may have been in a crouching or bending position when this wound was sustained.

The location and circumstances of the shooting and death of Necdet Yildirim, a 31 year old Turkish citizen from Istanbul, remain unclear. He was shot twice in the thorax, once from the front and once from the back. The trajectory of both bullets was from top to bottom. He also received bruises consistent with plastic bullet impact

mrmeindl wrote: »

So for what peaceful purposes would Night Vision Goggles be required in Gaza?

Mothers taking their babies for an evening stroll to spot Israeli snipers.

It would be useful for an elderly Palestinian couple to spot incoming hate attacks by racist, illegal Israeli settlers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp890nXTJ44

But let's be honest if there was night goggles on the ship, who gives a **** really ? It get's dark at sea too you know? Is the state of Israel threatened by a par of goggles?

mrmeindl wrote: »

You say near starvation, so what is it...starving or not starving? How are they starving if they manage to build a shopping center?

Near starving and suffering health (including mental) defects because of it.

Do you view the Palestians as sub-human or something? This sounds like nasty hasbara, but why shouldn't they have a shopping mall? They are human like you and me

mrmeindl wrote: »

Dunno what your on about there.

You wouldn't would you?

An Israeli human rights group has won a legal battle to compel the Israeli government to release three important documents. These outline state policy for permitting the transfer of goods into Gaza prior to the May 31 attack on the peace flotilla in which nine people were killed by Israeli forces. The group, Gisha – Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, is demanding Israeli transparency. Meanwhile, Israel refuses to release documents on the current version of blockade policy which was “eased” after international condemnation following the flotilla attack.

The released documents, whose existence Israel had denied for eighteen months, reveal that the state approved “a policy of deliberate reduction” of basic goods, including food and fuel, in the Gaza Strip. Gisha Director Sari Bashi explains:
“Instead of considering security concerns, on the one hand, and the rights and needs of civilians living in Gaza, on the other, Israel banned glucose for biscuits and the fuel needed for regular supply of electricity – paralyzing normal life in Gaza and impairing the moral character of the State of Israel. I am sorry to say that major elements of this policy are still in place.” (Gisha: Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, ‘Due to Gisha's Petition: Israel Reveals Documents related to the Gaza Closure Policy’, October 21, 2010; http://www.gisha.org/index.php ?intLanguage=2&intItemId=1904&intSiteSN=113)
As Saeed Bannoura of the International Middle East Media Center reports, the Israeli government imposed a deliberate policy:

“in which the dietary needs for the population of Gaza are chillingly calculated, and the amounts of food let in by the Israeli government measured to remain just enough to keep the population alive at a near-starvation level. This documents the statement made by a number of Israeli officials that they are ‘putting the people of Gaza on a diet’.” (Saeed Bannoura, ‘Israeli government documents show deliberate policy to keep Gazans at near-starvation levels’, International Middle East Media Center, November 6, 2010 21:32; http://www.imemc.org/article/59843)

mrmeindl wrote: »

So you'd fast rope unarmed onto a boat full of wannabe martyrs?

This is your "wannabe martyrs"

Well actually his name is Dr. Hasan Huseyin Uysal. He is an eye doctor.

Here he is again tenderly caring for a subdued and tearful Israeli commando who had likely killed some of his shipmates

Dr+Hasan+Huseyin+Uysal.jpg

This is what he had to say:

First of all it’s against logic that these soldiers would not be killed but instead be taken to the medical center if the intention of the activists was to kill them. If people on board were so eager to hurt them, why would they not just shoot them to death once they had taken their guns? Why bother carting them inside for treatment? It just doesn’t add up.

I am a doctor, and the Israeli soldiers were brought to me to check their medical situation and treat them properly. I had our dead bodies and injured people lying in front of me and I was treating the soldiers that actually killed and wounded them. None of our friends in the center approached to harm or hurt them. Our injured people were lying on the ground, but I rested the soldiers on our chairs.

None of the soldiers had any fatal wounds that would cause organ loss or defects. There were scratches on their faces, but since facial skin is sensitive and very likely to bleed in any trauma, there was blood on their faces — which I cleaned carefully to see what kind of injuries they had. In the end, they happened to be only scratches.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...s-during-raid/

The guy "wannabe martyr" on the right above worked for IHH. His name is Murat Akinan and is pictured here shepherding the IDF commando to medical treatment. This is what he had to say:

Mr. Akinan said that the captured soldier had been entrusted to him by Bulent Yildirim, the director of the Turkish aid organization I.H.H., who said: “Murat, take him and make sure that he’ll be safe. Be careful, don’t allow anyone to touch him.”

So, Mr. Akinan said, “I took him downstairs yelling, ‘Stop! No one will touch this man entrusted to me.’ ”

He added: “I called the doctor on board and asked him for treatment. Two more soldiers came. People were reacting. I had all three treated. I said to two to three wise people around me that we would not allow anyone to touch them.”

Bare in mind it is human nature to want to harm a murderer especially when it is a brutal and unnecessary as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxMExwhO6jQ

But hey, lets not apologise for murder. Lets arm a terrorist group and kill some more, there is just not enough orphans in the world already. Right?

brimal · 12-09-2011 10:56pm

Brown Bomber, you hate Israel, we get it.

Where is the conspiracy? You know there is a thread in the Politics forum on this very subject?

Brown Bomber · 12-09-2011 11:00pm

brimal wrote: »

Brown Bomber, you hate Israel, we get it.

Where is the conspiracy? You know there is a thread in the Politics forum on this very subject?

actually i hate hate.

mrmeindl · 12-09-2011 11:19pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The small matter of being aware of the facts before you make a tit of yourself in public -- y'know small things like celebrating the mass-murder of innocent people by a terrorist state?

You may want to look away now;)

The "snipers" were trying to protect their buddies from beaten to death and or eventually beheaded. NO "sniper rifle" is chambered in 9mm.

Your selective quoting from autopsys dosent help you, note the terrorists were shot with 9mm Ball, from their sidearms. Initial efforts to subdue the terrorists (who were lawfully stopped according to the UN) with less lethal options did not work, hence the need to use 9mm Ball to protect life and limb.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Mothers taking their babies for an evening stroll to spot Israeli snipers.

Hahahahahaha, I need to get one of those T shirts.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

It would be useful for an elderly Palestinian couple to spot incoming hate attacks by racist, illegal Israeli settlers.

At what point did I mention settlers?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

But let's be honest if there was night goggles on the ship, who gives a **** really ? It get's dark at sea too you know? Is the state of Israel threatened by a par of goggles?

Providing NVEs to Hamas/The palistinian authority gives them an increased capacity to make attacks in Israel, There is NO civil use for them.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Near starving and suffering health (including mental) defects because of it.

What exactly is near starving? To skip breakfast, if the palesinians were so hard up for basic food supplies how can luxury cars be imported? You dont seem to appreciate the bull**** where you say they're starving one sec and then say they deserve a shopping center.

Brown Bomber · 12-09-2011 11:36pm

Every place in the world that I've ever visited has had a shopping mall. Why shouldn't the most densely populated area in the world have one? Are they not people like you or I?

Do you think the existence of a single mall somehow means that Gazans aren't under siege?

You never answered the question. Do you consider Palestinians as sub-human?

Brown Bomber · 13-09-2011 12:03am

mrmeindl wrote: »

The "snipers" were trying to protect their buddies from beaten to death and or eventually beheaded. NO "sniper rifle" is chambered in 9mm.

Your selective quoting from autopsys dosent help you, note the terrorists were shot with 9mm Ball, from their sidearms. Initial efforts to subdue the terrorists (who were lawfully stopped according to the UN) with less lethal options did not work, hence the need to use 9mm Ball to protect life and limb.

The only terrorists on board were the Israeli murderers

In what warped sense could it be considered "to protect life and limb" to kill sheltering people who are fleeing for their lives with live fire from a helicopter?

They had been sheltering and were shot as they attempted to move inside the door leading to the stairwell.

mrmeindl wrote: »

Providing NVEs to Hamas/The palistinian authority gives them an increased capacity to make attacks in Israel, There is NO civil use for them.

Eh, except for seeing in the dark. I can't believe I am having this idiotic conversation.

[FONT=verdana, arial]One of the best tools for navigation is the human eye. Unfortunately, when sailing at night, the utility of the eye is obviously reduced.

Due to extensive military development of night vision technology in the past decade, remarkably capable night vision devices are now being sold in the marine market. Night vision units give the navigator a nighttime seeing capability that enhances navigation and safety.

http://www.oceannavigator.com/content/night-vision

[/FONT]

mrmeindl wrote: »

What exactly is near starving? To skip breakfast, if the palesinians were so hard up for basic food supplies how can luxury cars be imported? You dont seem to appreciate the bull**** where you say they're starving one sec and then say they deserve a shopping center.

Your empathy for your fellow man warms my soul.

This by Physician for Human Rights should more than explain it to you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtaGV8SU5dA

A report published (9.1.11) by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, "Humanitarian Minimum -- Israel's Role in Creating Food and Water Insecurity in Gaza," examines the effects of the Israeli blockade policy that began in June 2007 on public health in the Gaza Strip. The Israeli Cabinet Decision to ease restrictions on selected goods in the wake of the flotilla and subsequent international pressure are not expected to change this situation significantly, as they do not facilitate economic recovery and are based on the assumption that foreign humanitarian aid will continue.

To the full report: http://www.phr.org.il/default.asp?PageID=190&ItemID=995

Brown Bomber · 19-01-2012 12:51am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In the fall-out from Israel killing innocent, unarmed people on a boat in international waters and the refusing to even apologise Israeli Foriegn Minister the racist, right-wing nutcase Avigdor Lieberman who lobbies for ethnically cleansing Israel of Arabs who are natives of the land though he is Russian born is set to meet with Kurdish terrorist group the PKK.

(Listed as terrorists by the US State Dept- http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2006/82738.htm )

Lieberman is also planning to set meetings with the heads of Kurdish rebel group PKK in Europe in order to “cooperate with them and boost them in every possible area.” In these meetings, the Kurds may ask Israel for military aid in the form of training and arms supplies, a move that would constitute a major anti-Turkish position should it materialize.

Israeli Herons give intelligence to PKK, intelligence officers say

17 January 2012 / TODAY'S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL
According to reports by Turkish intelligence agencies, Heron unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) operated by Israel that have been observed in Hatay and Adana provinces in recent months spied for the terrorist Kurdistan Worker's Party (PKK).

Turkish intelligence agencies prepared a report after the detection of two Israeli Herons in Hatay and Adana roughly two months ago, claiming that the Herons are collecting intelligence on Turkish military units in order to aid PKK operations in those regions.

The report asserts that the PKK's training camps in northern Syria, near Turkey's Hatay border “where Turkish military border posts are relatively weak” were established in those locations based on intelligence collected by the UAVs.

The report also claims that Kenan Yıldızbakan, a PKK member who commanded an assault against a Turkish naval base in İskenderun in 2010, has made repeated trips into Israeli territory, reinforcing suspicions of a possible link between Israeli and the PKK.
A rocket attack by PKK terrorists on the naval base killed seven soldiers and wounded six others in the southern province of Hatay's İskenderun district in June 2010.

In a related development, phone conversations between Mehmet Veysi Dilekçi and Mesude Yasak recently intercepted during investigations into the KCK, included discussions relating to Israeli support for the PKK. Dilekçi and Yasak, who were arrested during a Turkish operation against the KCK in December in Siirt, mentioned a convoy of 400 trucks supplying aid to the PKK that was sent by an Israeli civil society organization -- which was identified as Hae Anshei Targum in the Star daily-- in 2010.
The Kurdish Communities Union (KCK) is a political umbrella organization that allegedly includes the PKK.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-268815-.html

Israel to sponsor terrorism

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