Regional work for 2nd year visa - Is farm work on non commercial farms ok?

Pisco Sour

I remember reading somewhere on the internet, about 6 months or so ago, that the farm didnt have to be a commercial farm to count towards your regional work for 2nd year visa. However I now cant find where I found this anywhere despite looking a lot for it.

So wondering if anybody here would know the answer. Does the regional work have to be done on a commercial farm or can work on a non-commercial farm count towards your 88 days?

Thanks

hussey

what do you mean 'commercial' farm? I take commercial as large scale, if that is the question, then yes, smaller farms qualify

also here is the fact sheet - use this as the source of truth
http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/417/specified-work.htm

Pisco Sour

hussey wrote: »

what do you mean 'commercial' farm? I take commercial as large scale, if that is the question, then yes, smaller farms qualify

also here is the fact sheet - use this as the source of truth
http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/417/specified-work.htm

I mean commercial farm as in a farm that keeps animal/ crops to sell

When I mean non-commercial farm I'm talking about farms that keep animals/ crops for their own consumption rather than to sell to others

Pisco Sour

I think this is where I read about it before:

http://www.wwoof.com.au/overseas.html

Please note: Hosts do not need to be a commercial operation or hold an ABN to sign your form, but you cannot lodge the form online if they don't have one, in this case you will need to mail your completed form.

Mellor

If the farm is non commercail, ie only keep enough animals, crops to feed themselves then I don't think they'd need to hire a person for 3 months

Pisco Sour

Mellor wrote: »

If the farm is non commercail, ie only keep enough animals, crops to feed themselves then I don't think they'd need to hire a person for 3 months

That's neither here no there though with regards 2nd year visa. If they decided to take somebody on to help out with farm work, and it was a non commercial farm, then would this count towards regional work? The WWOOF website says so, but I can't find anything on this anywhere else.

Mellor

Why wouldn't it count?
It's work in a regional area.

My point was thoguh that's its a bit of a strange question as I can't see anybody getting this work. If the "farm" was only there to feed themselves. There would only be a few hours of work a week. I doubt there would be wnough to employ another person, certainly not full time

hussey

If they decided to take somebody on to help out with farm work, and it was a non commercial farm, then would this count towards regional work?

Yes - once they are a business

on a side note I know someone who worked volunteer on a farm (food + accom = work) and got their 2nd year based on this

Pisco Sour

hussey wrote: »

Yes - once they are a business

According to WWOOF a host doesnt have to be a business to sign you off

http://www.wwoof.com.au/overseas.html

Please note: Hosts do not need to be a commercial operation or hold an ABN to sign your form, but you cannot lodge the form online if they don't have one, in this case you will need to mail your completed form.

The reason I ask all this is because I'm currently volunteering under Helpx (same thing as WWOOF really) at a non commercial farm. They keep their own animals and have a vineyard, and they have 40 acres, so it is very much a farm, albeit a small one. I'm not sure if they would have 3 months worth of work for me but they have enough to keep me going a few hours a day, 5 days a week (weekends off) at the moment, and they have already filled out my form and signed me off as general farm work and vineyard maintenace (they'll put in the amount of days when I leave). They have an ABN aswell, but are definetely not a commercial farm. So that's why I was asking, to find out if the 88 days had to be done with a farm that keeps animals or crops for commercial reasons, but after doing a bit of research I'm happy that my work is legit.

Mellor

04072511 wrote: »

According to WWOOF a host doesnt have to be a business to sign you off

If they are employing you then they are a business, regardless of having an ABN or not

The reason I ask all this is because I'm currently volunteering under Helpx (same thing as WWOOF really) at a non commercial farm. They keep their own animals and have a vineyard, and they have 40 acres, so it is very much a farm, albeit a small one.

Would the vineyard not be commercial, or do they drink all the vine themsleves

melb

04072511 wrote: »

but after doing a bit of research I'm happy that my work is legit.

If only you'd done the bit of research before posting

Pisco Sour

melb wrote: »

If only you'd done the bit of research before posting

Well this was part of the research

melb

04072511 wrote: »

Well this was part of the research

You seem to have based your decision on these "wwoof" people. Is this the new name for the Department of Immigration and Citizenship?

Mellor

WWOOF (Willing Workers on Organic Farms) is a well known organisation and eligible for a 2nd WHV. In fact it stats on the Dept. of Immigration website that;

Specified work does not need to be paid work.
Example: Work undertaken as a volunteer or through the Willing Workers on Organic Farms (WWOOF) scheme may qualify if the work falls within the specified work definition

I'm not sure what you are implyign above, but its common knowledge that it doesn't have to be paid work.
Farmwork simply has to meet one of the following definitions;

plant and animal cultivation
◦cultivating or propagating plants, fungi or their products or parts
◦general maintenance crop work
◦harvesting and/or packing fruit and vegetable crops
◦immediate processing of animal products including shearing, butchery in an abattoir, packing and tanning
Note: Secondary processing of animal products, such as small goods processing and retail butchery is not eligible
◦immediate processing of plant products
◦maintaining animals for the purpose of selling them or their bodily produce, including natural increase
◦manufacturing dairy produce from raw material
◦pruning and trimming vines and trees.

melb

Your right, you don't know what I am implying.

Did I mention anything about paid work? Nope.

I'm just interested in the information coming from these wwoofers which seems to be that you can basically stay on any "farm" once out in the rural area and this will count as your regional work. It is a commonly held belief that a farm needs an ABN(whether its from being a commercial farm, farmstay,etc) in order to sign-off on someones regional work. I say this as from looking through helpx only a small number of farms say they can sign off on your work. Surely if these farms that think they cannot sign off are non commercial farms then they really can sign off?

Is there any mention of this non commercial farm work on the IMMI website?

Mellor

melb wrote: »

Your right, you don't know what I am implying.

Did I mention anything about paid work? Nope.

I never said you mentioned paid work, that was a direct quote from Dept of Immigration. Where they vouch for WWOOF

I'm just interested in the information coming from these wwoofers which seems to be that you can basically stay on any "farm" once out in the rural area and this will count as your regional work.

Where did anyone say that. You have to work on the farm, not just stay there.
That meets the requirements of IMMI.

It is a commonly held belief that a farm needs an ABN(whether its from being a commercial farm, farmstay,etc) in order to sign-off on someones regional work.

Commonly held by who?
An ABN is nothing to do with the requirements of regional work.
It is simple an easy way to identify the company you worked for.

I say this as from looking through helpx only a small number of farms say they can sign off on your work. Surely if these farms that think they cannot sign off are non commercial farms then they really can sign off?

They don't "sign off". They employ you, for 88 days or more. That's all. They fill out a form to say they employed you for 88 days. Then IMMI aprove the work.

If they only deal with volunteers, then they might not have an ABN. But if so, then as long as you working for 3 months its not an issue. Maybe the ones who can't sign off don't have enough work to constitute full time.

Is there any mention of this non commercial farm work on the IMMI website?

There is nothing mentioned to separate commercial and non commercial on the IMMI site. I'm still not quite sure how a non-commercial farm needs volunteers.
Volunteer work counts. But the work has to be proper work. It has to be somewhat full time.

melb

Commonly held by most farmers who believe you need to be a primary producer to sign off on people. Just to clarify-primary producers hold ABNs.

They sign off on your stay there. You say work-I say stay. Considering as a volunteer you will be doing an average of 4 hours a day accoring to the wwoof people I wouldn't call it work. Either way its still valid for regional work.

The non commercial signing off of volunteer work can only be done by WWOOF hosts not just any farmer in a regional area. WWOOF have a special agreement with the IMMI where non commercial farming hosts use a generic ABN that is issued to the WWOOF organisation.

Mellor

melb wrote: »

Commonly held by most farmers who believe you need to be a primary producer to sign off on people. Just to clarify-primary producers hold ABNs.

Why woudl you have to be a primary producer? It doesn't ahve to be farmwork.
If I employee you to direct traffic out side a compound for 3 months it counts.

They sign off on your stay there. You say work-I say stay. Considering as a volunteer you will be doing an average of 4 hours a day accoring to the wwoof people I wouldn't call it work. Either way its still valid for regional work

.
It doesn't ahve to be hard work.
If 4 hours a day is the standard shift then it counts.

The non commercial signing off of volunteer work can only be done by WWOOF hosts not just any farmer in a regional area. WWOOF have a special agreement with the IMMI where non commercial farming hosts use a generic ABN that is issued to the WWOOF organisation.

Where did you get this from

melb

Pull your head in there. I didn't say you had to be a primary producer. I'm talking about volunteer work on a farm and your bringing in traffic directing?????????????????????????????? Yes we all know regional work is able to count for a second year WHV if it is the designated industries. Look on helpx-you will see farmers saying they cannot sign off on WHV as they are no primary producers.

Did I say anything about hard work? A nice pleasant stay on a farm doing 4 hours waltzing around is a lovely way to get a second year visa.

As for the last part. Contact WWOOF. I did.

Mellor

melb wrote: »

Pull your head in there. I didn't say you had to be a primary producer. I'm talking about volunteer work on a farm and your bringing in traffic directing?????????????????????????????? Yes we all know regional work is able to count for a second year WHV if it is the designated industries. Look on helpx-you will see farmers saying they cannot sign off on WHV as they are no primary producers.

Did I say anything about hard work? A nice pleasant stay on a farm doing 4 hours waltzing around is a lovely way to get a second year visa.

As for the last part. Contact WWOOF. I did.

Look the simple fact is, full time work in a regional area is all that needed. Primary producer has nothing to do with it. Anybody who employs people can have an ABN. I have an ABN.
If the farmers are saying that it doesn't count its because the work doesn't count. For example, the hours are enough for full time. Days on and off are too sporadic etc

hussey

Mod Lads, take it easy, enough of this back and forth between BOTH of you okay?

melb

Mellor wrote: »

Look the simple fact is, full time work in a regional area is all that needed. Primary producer has nothing to do with it. Anybody who employs people can have an ABN. I have an ABN.
If the farmers are saying that it doesn't count its because the work doesn't count. For example, the hours are enough for full time. Days on and off are too sporadic etc

The simple fact is your making a big deal out of nothing. I said that some farmers think you need you be a primary producer to sign off on regional work. You took that and went god knows where with it.

hussey

melb wrote: »

The simple fact is your making a big deal out of nothing. I said that some farmers think you need you be a primary producer to sign off on regional work. You took that and went god knows where with it.

Mod PLEASE READ WHAT I SAID ABOVE - BOTH of you stop this, you are picking apart tiny details, and it does not help the OP

One more warnings and infractions will be given out

mandrake04

Mellor wrote: »

Look the simple fact is, full time work in a regional area is all that needed.

As long as it's eligble specified work, some full time work is ineligible.

Examples of ineligible specified work:

working at a cellar door providing wine tastings
undertaking an archaeological survey
working as a caterer or cook on a mine site
working as an architect or town planner
working as a cook or cleaner while volunteering through the WWOOF scheme
helping to construct ships or boats.

You could work full time as a cook on a mine site or building boats and it wouldn't be eligible.

Mellor

mandrake04 wrote: »

As long as it's eligble specified work, some full time work is ineligible.




You could work full time as a cook on a mine site or building boats and it wouldn't be eligible.

Sorry, I assumed that was obvious.
Being a chef isn't farming, construction or any of the other listed area so obviously it doesn't count