Torchwood: Miracle Day - Episode 10 [finale] *Spoilers*

Richard Dower

Lets see what the giant vagina is all about

Review = :eek: WTF was that end???????????....a cliffhanger??????? :eek:
Hold on!...i thought Torchwood was designed around self contained arcs/series?.....what the HELL was that end?????

Rex is immortal like Jack?....Jilly survived...yay!, the three families were doing a trial run and now Plan B

Esther...RIP , Oswald Danes turned out to be utterly USELESS to the overall story, why did RTD leave it open ended?....who decided on this?, Starz?....what now if it dosen't get renewed?????????? :mad:

Overall, besides the cliffy end it was a pretty lame ass episode and overall T: MD has been utter pants, bad story, bad acting, a story arc that could easily have been done in five episodes, way tooo much filler.

Pissed off right now, cliffhanger :rolleyes:

Sarn

I actually enjoyed this episode, after a fairly poor overall run. I agree that they really should have condensed it to five episodes. If they're going to renew it they need to bring it back to its British roots, the ending suggests that that will not be the case.

Rex's regeneration was predictable enough. After they spoke about the infusion of Jack's blood, combined with the Blessing, not too surprising that there would be some benefit. Leaves an opening for Rex to cameo in a future Dr. Who episode.

I don't consider it much of a cliffhanger. They could push Plan B out a few decades, hundred years, so I'm not that bothered.

The Left Hand Of God

As much as I may have given out a bit about the whole over doing of the "gay" thing, which I thought added little to the tale* and was over done, I thought the finale was excellently done.

Really enjoyed watching it earlier. But I would have preferred the standard UK 6 episode way....



*Rex sleeping with yer one didn't need to be shown either, for the record. Them falling into bed and then cut to post sex conversation would have done. No need for the graphic version.

Ridley

Pretty good finale I thought.

Series overall has been one big drawn out meh but ideally if and when Torchwood 5 shows up all the pieces are already in place to get up and running again from the 'reboot'. Preferably skipping from series 2 back to Children of Earth quality.

I like the idea of a group out there that's the anti-Torchwood anyway. Just need a Matheson parallel to balance out a team made up of Kitzinger and the "Blue-Eyed Man".

pixelburp

Out of curiosity, did they ever actually reveal what the point of Oswald Danes was? There were vague hints at the start that he had some innate connection, but the character's arc went into a holding pattern & didn't seem to be going anywhere? Am I right in suspecting it was all just a piece of shock-value, stunt characterisation?

Jessibelle

pixelburp wrote: »

Out of curiosity, did they ever actually reveal what the point of Oswald Danes was? There were vague hints at the start that he had some innate connection, but the character's arc went into a holding pattern & didn't seem to be going anywhere? Am I right in suspecting it was all just a piece of shock-value, stunt characterisation?

I'd say that was it in a nutshell. I mean he dies roaring 'run faster Susie...' now I know he's not meant to be likable in any way,and that was the name of the girl he killed, but that was just bizarre, like he was trying to justify that the girl was a bad girl and would be in hell with him? It just seemed very out of sync with the whole scene.
Have to say the Cooper/Kissenger fight was a bit hilarious though.

Richard Dower

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Torchwood-Miracle-Day-Finale-Postmortem-Jane-Espenson-Interview-1037194.aspx

Garseys

Loved the twist at the end,

I'm glad aswell since I really liked Rex as a character. Also really curious to know what Plan B is.... guess thats next series

Mr E

I wasn't crazy about episode 9 (a big rock vagina? WTF? ) and was worried that they wouldn't pull off a satisfying finale, but for the most part I was pleasantly surprised. It was a pretty decent climax.

Some things I didn't like were:

1. Oswald - pointless character with no redeeming qualities. Even if his sacrifice had been to make amends, it may have made sense, but no. He was an asshole in death too.

2. I really wanted to see Kitzinger get her comeuppance. I was sure she was going to get chopped by the elevator at the end. Horrible character overall.

Highlights:

1. Gwen's monologue (and the accompanying scenes) when miracle was reversed.

2. John de Lancie's character's last line.

SparklersJo

One thing I wasn't too clear on: Did they manage to explain why the opposite happened to Jack

(& Rex)

? I get the Blessing made everyone immortal from Jack's blood with it's morphic field and all, but why did it make him mortal? And same at the end. When everyone else was switched back to being mortal, why were Jack

(& Rex)

switched to immortal?? Did I just drift off during that bit?

Sarn

SparklersJo wrote: »

One thing I wasn't too clear on: Did they manage to explain why the opposite happened to Jack

(& Rex)

? I get the Blessing made everyone immortal from Jack's blood with it's morphic field and all, but why did it make him mortal? And same at the end. When everyone else was switched back to being mortal, why were Jack

(& Rex)

switched to immortal?? Did I just drift off during that bit?

I was thinking the same thing. If Jack was the template then you would imagine everyone would be the same. Let's just say it was a morphic inversion field or that a balance was required, or that it was an exchange of templates.

Stark

One of the more annoying things about this series was how inconsistent it was with the central premise. Like it started off with charred corpses kept alive and fully concious setting up the Miracle as a curse. Then you have category 1s and suddenly a simple heart attack renders you comatose (yet Rex is still walking around fully alert with a hole in his chest). Then they even seem to drop that and people can be killed willy nilly. Like the bomb in the CIA killing Q and company. Surely there would be enough bits of them left to spell out who the mole was. Similarly with the soldiers in the army truck, they shouldn't have been dead, they should have been just horribly mutilated.

This episode was okay. Though it was a case of too little too late. Q's last line was awesome alright.

SparklersJo

Stark wrote: »

One of the more annoying things about this series was how inconsistent it was with the central premise. Like it started off with charred corpses kept alive and fully concious setting up the Miracle as a curse. Then you have category 1s and suddenly a simple heart attack renders you comatose (yet Rex is still walking around fully alert with a hole in his chest). Then they even seem to drop that and people can be killed willy nilly. Like the bomb in the CIA killing Q and company. Surely there would be enough bits of them left to spell out who the mole was. Similarly with the soldiers in the army truck, they shouldn't have been dead, they should have been just horribly mutilated.

This episode was okay. Though it was a case of too little too late. Q's last line was awesome alright.

Very true. Breaking into the Shanghai facility, Jack and Gwen broke a lot of necks and the people fell down dead. When a rogue CIA agent's neck was broken in another episode after getting off the plane in the States, she just got right back up and kept on after them!

pixelburp

Stark wrote: »

One of the more annoying things about this series was how inconsistent it was with the central premise. [...]

In fairness, internal wobbliness in plotting is peanuts, as this series has created the much larger inconsistency of how exactly this ties in with the Who-universe, if at all. It seems Miracle Day happens more or less in the same time as Amy/Rory's yet our favorite time-travelling couple make no mention of this.

Hell even the concept of Jack being a fixed point in time seems to be a bit scatty now, as my understanding is that it became an issue of his blood?

At this stage I'm just going to pretend season 3 & 4 happened in some alternate timeline & leave it at that.

Fysh

pixelburp wrote: »

In fairness, internal wobbliness in plotting is peanuts, as this series has created the much larger inconsistency of how exactly this ties in with the Who-universe, if at all. It seems Miracle Day happens more or less in the same time as Amy/Rory's yet our favorite time-travelling couple make no mention of this.

I can't bring myself to agree that ties to a parent show are somehow more important (in terms of consistency) than playing by the rules established in previous episodes of the same miniseries.

Overall, this was a big meh. It started well enough and looked promising, but ultimately it didn't have the bite that Children of Earth did. Given that I wasn't a fan of the show before CoE, I don't think I'll be bothering with the next series if it does get made.

Doctor DooM

Oswald was the major disappoint me for me but he kinda mirrors the whole series.

He/it started out well, I was interested in the character, it was a bit different to see so much time given to someone so horrid. I thought they were heading towards some form of redemption for him, but his story just stalled half way through and the way I took the ending is that he hadn't learned a thing at all, he died as much as a dick as he had lived.

I was also really disappointed with the Blessing's relationship to Jack. I had thought they were connected, from the whole blood dragging thing. The blessing could have been some awesome thing from his origin story (I was expecting them to say it grew out of every drop of his blood which seeped into the earth over the years or something, and it achieved semi sentience because of it's special- singularity-ness, or something), but instead it was just weird thing 1 meets weird thing 2 and miracle happens.

But you know, I wasn't really bored, not like other people are saying. I watched it the whole way through and while it never reached the high points of CoE or even the good eposiodes of series 2 I was never offended with sillyness or switched off. So I guess that's a minor win.

pixelburp

Fysh wrote: »

I can't bring myself to agree that ties to a parent show are somehow more important (in terms of consistency) than playing by the rules established in previous episodes of the same miniseries.

Ok I overcooked my sentiments a little, but it's still a large part of the general inconsistency of the show that rankles: granted RTD's never been very strong on the small details of his plots, losing himself in the grandeur of his event-based plotting; so those inconsistencies in the internal logic of the Miracle didn't come as any great surprise. The fact he can't be bothered even vaguely tie in the universe Miracle Day's set in (or even obeying some of the cornerstone aspects of his characters. Eg, Jack immortality) annoyed me that bit more.

iMax

Just finished watching. Have never watched Torchwood before & have to say I absolutely loved it. Have series 3 ready to go. I understand that 1 & 2 aren't as good apparently, should I just forgo them & jump right in on 3 ?

I was half expecting the guy Rex threw over the barrier to turn up just as Oswald pressed the button but if that had happened, I probably have expected Wiley E Coyote to turn up too.

Was expecting the Rex thing too, so I'm guessing now we'll have another season set primarily in the US, possible with very little input from Gwen Cooper.

Oh & I think I'm in love with Gwen Cooper too.

Doctor DooM

iMax wrote: »

Just finished watching. Have never watched Torchwood before & have to say I absolutely loved it. Have series 3 ready to go. I understand that 1 & 2 aren't as good apparently, should I just forgo them & jump right in on 3 ?

I was half expecting the guy Rex threw over the barrier to turn up just as Oswald pressed the button but if that had happened, I probably have expected Wiley E Coyote to turn up too.

Was expecting the Rex thing too, so I'm guessing now we'll have another season set primarily in the US, possible with very little input from Gwen Cooper.

Oh & I think I'm in love with Gwen Cooper too.

Series 2 has it's high moments but series one is by and large terrible. Might be worth a look if you just like the characters though.

Bar_Prop

I'm angry with myself for not stopping watching it about ep.6 or so.

Cyndaquil

iMax wrote: »

Just finished watching. Have never watched Torchwood before & have to say I absolutely loved it. Have series 3 ready to go. I understand that 1 & 2 aren't as good apparently, should I just forgo them & jump right in on 3 ?

I was half expecting the guy Rex threw over the barrier to turn up just as Oswald pressed the button but if that had happened, I probably have expected Wiley E Coyote to turn up too.

Was expecting the Rex thing too, so I'm guessing now we'll have another season set primarily in the US, possible with very little input from Gwen Cooper.

Oh & I think I'm in love with Gwen Cooper too.

I enjoyed season 2, season 1 isn't woeful by any means, it at least sets up the concept (or at least the original concept) for the show, which season 2 builds on. If you were going to watch season 2 and 3 you may as well watch season 1 anyway.

Going back to this finale, eh, I'm not sure. The whole Rex having Jack's blood in him thing seemed a bit predictable once it was revealed blood was needed at both ends.

As for the "Blessing" always being there, I find this a bit hard to swallow. I mean, are we really meant to believe that it was just there, undetected, through all of Doctor Who and Torchwood? I mean, really?

I actually thought the ending left things too open. In that it's really geared in expectation of another joint Starz/BBC series. I would have preferred it if had been left open to go either way, like Rex and Jack/Gwen depart with a "been nice working with you, hope we never see each other again" kind of goodbye. But the way it was done means that if Starz are unwilling to collaborate again (which I'm kind of hoping is the case...) and BBC decide to revert to the old format then they will have to force in dialogue to explain what happened to Rex, Jilly and the Families, etc... This would not be necessary if they hadn't left any American-centered plot threads dangling, while not precluding another innovation either. Ah well, we'll see what happens I guess. At least I still have the parent show to enjoy.

Stark

Barring "Everything changes", "Small Worlds" and "Captain Jack Harkness", season 1 is trash. ("Day One", "Cyberwoman" and "Countrycide" are particularly bad).

Season 2 was a big improvement. Worth watching for Owen Harper I think, who is everything Oswald Danes should have been: an utterly detestable character who manages to mature and grow on you over the course of the series until you're actually sorry to see him go. Oh and the big character turning moment is when he becomes undead oddly enough.

Season 3 is more or less a standalone story but I think it's still worth watching the better episodes of season 1 and most of season 2 so you get more involved in the characters.

Morag

So Oswald Danes was the Golum of the piece? feck that.
Wasn't a patch on Children of Earth.

The Recliner

Well that was a big steaming turd of a season without any real redeeming features that I can think of

Every week I would hope that it would get better or at least the finale would be worth watching

it got so bad that my long suffering girlfriend who loved Children of Earth (and now watches Who but hadn't seen Torchwood before CoE) has taken to calling it Torturewood and I can't really refute that

Cormic

Poor writing, poor acting, poor story.... Just poor.

After that season I am seriously thinking of not watching Torchwood again. I will wait till it is 3/4 over and then make my mind up.

Children of Earth was a classic. What the heck happened?

Cyndaquil

Cormic wrote: »

Children of Earth was a classic. What the heck happened?

Greed? Producers wanting to appeal to a new (US) market as well as its original. Arguably it was unsuccessful in appealing to the new one and it only succeeded in alienating its original one. Sorry for the pun. A textbook example of how bigger budgets don't always mean a better show. I watched on episode of season 1 again the other night on Watch, it might not be the most critically acclaimed season but at least the episodes could be engaging. I could watch them with interest from start to finish. With Miracle Day my interest waned through most of episodes 2-8, with only really the premiere and finale engaging me. And even then it was never on the level it was back in the early days.

pixelburp

Cormic wrote: »

Poor writing, poor acting, poor story.... Just poor.

After that season I am seriously thinking of not watching Torchwood again. I will wait till it is 3/4 over and then make my mind up.

Children of Earth was a classic. What the heck happened?

Children of Earth happened.

Seriously, I think the success of Children of Earth - specifically it's format of spanning 1 story across all episodes in the season - convinced RTD that what he needed to do for the 4th run was write another "event" driven season, all the while increasing the nature of the threat.

But as we know, what made Children of Earth tick wasn't necessarily the plot arc, or the format; more a case that it was a brief, thrilling, tightly-written story that never let up with its tension & drama. Miracle Day wasn't any of those things, bar the "event"

So I'd suspect if season 3 hadn't have gone down so well with people, season 4 would have simply been a standard series.

wantabike

If Starz paid for the next series but left the writing and filming up to BBC Wales, we might have a chance of getting the old Torchwood high standard back! It was so American! I'm glad at least they got rid of whiney Esther. Rex was a pain also, seems they'll be keeping him. Interesting twist. Jack was great but it was interesting to see the difference a director makes.

Bannasidhe

When MD first started I thought it was great but by the end I was thinking meh! It seems to me the one of the big differences between MD and COE was that Children focused a lot on ordinary people and how their world was going mad. Miracle seemed to focus on a very small - not 'ordinary' types (CIA agents, PR chick, Millionaires) with the average person consigned to being faceless victims on trolleys as atmosphere.
Scenes like the authorities coming to take the children from the housing estate and how the residents tried to protect them made COE scary because it did have that 'what would I do if that was me?' tension for the viewer.

Did anyone else think it also suffered from the CSI everyone in the US is beautiful curse?

Stark

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did anyone else think it also suffered from the CSI everyone in the US is beautiful curse?

Why Jean-Luc, I had know idea you felt that way.

Bannasidhe

Stark wrote: »

Why Jean-Luc, I had know idea you felt that way.

Resistance was futile.

Flashgordon197

I thought they spun the whole thing out a bit too much.It was too long. I still would watch another series but Im not sure I appreciate the American angle. One of the aspects of COE I valued was its Britishness.
Having never watched Doctor Who it was great to see a good British Sci -Fi story. The Americans were generally clichéd . The plot seemed to be made up as it went along. Im still at a loss to know what Oswald Danes role was ? Any ideas?!

Mr.Saturn

It's still a vast improvement over Torchwood's first series, but coming off Children of Earth, this could only fail. It stunk of budget-requirements, overlong episode-order, creative exasperation in places and drop in a few too many examples of 1D characters who the audience are asked to invest in too quickly, and with little reason.

I liked it, mostly, but even watching the first episode, it felt as though it should've been called 'Torchwood: Please Don't Change the Channel', Whatwith the haste in which everything is introduced, and then just left there quietly to simmer and never cook properly.

I think I'd have been more embracing of Miracle Day if my last memory of Torchwood wasn't Children of Earth, one of the greatest pieces of Brit sci-fi
going.

Richard Dower

Update on a possible second season: http://www.digitalspy.ie/ustv/s8/torchwood/news/a373439/torchwood-revival-still-possible-says-starz-exec.html?rss

Cyndaquil

Richard Dower wrote: »

Update on a possible second season: http://www.digitalspy.ie/ustv/s8/torchwood/news/a373439/torchwood-revival-still-possible-says-starz-exec.html?rss

Well, 5th...

To be honest I'm not sure I want another season now... if it's back to season 2 style bring it on, but not interested in a follow on from season 4 (though by all means casually wrap up the loose ends).

Otherwise Jack making occasional appearances in the parent show will do me fine (not that I'd object to Gwen joining him!).

darapixie

Have they announced when the new series is out?

Mr.Saturn

darapixie wrote: »

Have they announced when the new series is out?

They're teasing it might be finished.

http://airlockalpha.com/node/8749/future-not-so-bright-for-torchwood.html

pixelburp

Oh lord I hope not; Torchwood has run out of steam, they should let it die. It was a nice idea but bar season 3 was generally a load of garbage.

Pawwed Rig

Sorry for digging up the old thread. Thought it better than starting a new one.

So I watched Miracle Day last year and on the strength of it and advice from boardsies I got the first 2 series box set. I thought it was pretty good even if there are a few holes in it but that can be forgiven. I still javen't caught the Dr Who episodes where Torchwood started so there is still a gap in my knowledge.


Completely random question. Why do the Weevels wear clothes?

I am not finished season 2 so I am assuming the Weevels will be adequately explained before the end of the series???



Also, Tosh as a character isn't really working for me.

Daemos

The Weevils are just... there. Other than the Series 1 episode Combat, and the Series 2 episode

Dead Man Walking

, they really aren't up to much. I think it's mentioned in the series or probably in the Making Of that they just stole the clothes. Really they're just there to make up the numbers, they're not really important

Also, you MUST watch Series 3 aka Children of Earth. It's the pinnacle of the show. Imagine Miracle Day but so much better

Pawwed Rig

Thx for the reply. Yes I got Children of Earth aswell in the boxset. I was a bit confused about that one as I thought Miracle Day was Season 3.

So the Weevils all stole the same boiler suit???:D
The ability to put on clothes would indicate intelligence whereas there does not seem to be any to date. Pity as I was hoping for something to be explained about it.

I'm a bit diasppointed with Gwen too. I would have thought she would come clean with Rhys.

Enjoying it...........

ebbsy

I thought first 3 series were great myself, Miracle day was a great idea poorly executed.

pixelburp

ebbsy wrote: »

Completely random question. Why do the Weevels wear clothes?

Budget I'm sure the writers might have come up with some excuse, but the boiler-suits just made it cheaper to produce the prosthetics - you only needed the head then!

I thought first 3 series were great myself, Miracle day was a great idea poorly executed.

It was hampered by its own concept: the idea itself is great, but it was never going to be enough to sustain a 10-episode action thriller. It also didn't help that the strongest portions of the show were the non-Torchwood elements: the medical world trying to get to grips with the problem, and watching the world slowly unravel - that was great. Capt. Jack & the Scooby gang running about? Yawn.

Pawwed Rig

Haha yeah the boiler suits I am sure cost less than the alternative. Also I probably don't need to see a weevels dangly bits.

Wow some ending to series 2!! Roll on series 3

Doctor DooM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Haha yeah the boiler suits I am sure cost less than the alternative. Also I probably don't need to see a weevels dangly bits.

Wow some ending to series 2!! Roll on series 3

End of 2 and 3 are the best, enjoy it

It's a pity RTD couldn't sustain it for Miracle Day.

Pawwed Rig

In fairness Miracle Day was very watchable but maybe just not up to the standards of the previous series. It would have been a great idea for a movie. I agree with other poster that it dragged on a bit. Will there be more series?

RTD?

Doctor DooM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

In fairness Miracle Day was very watchable but maybe just not up to the standards of the previous series. It would have been a great idea for a movie. I agree with other poster that it dragged on a bit. Will there be more series?

RTD?

Russell T Davies, the guy who rebooted Doctor Who and spun Jack Harkness out of it into his own series. (In case you are unaware, an old version of torchwood has a major role in one series of Who)

The future of torchwood is up in the air. I could see a return to the BBC before another American series.

Pawwed Rig

Ah right. I had just watched Torchwood declassified after the my last post and there was an interview with Russell Davis so copped it then.

Yeah I know it was spun from Dr Who but I have yet to catch up on those series. I have only seen the Matt Smith series as a whole ie from start to finish with all the previous series just seeing an episode here and an episode there back to the first doctor I remember, Tom Baker.
I will have to look into getting a huge boxset one of these days.
i am not sure if the BC could afford to finance a new Torchwood series without backing from someone else.

john.bender

I think one of the problems, exuding into the Torchwood virtual reality, is that there isn’t even really a consistent Whoinverse, in terms of a logically homogenous set of phenomenons and rules, as the series has been going from the 60ies up to the present day, with the knowledge of and the approach to laws of nature and technology constantly changing. So script writers basically just make it all up as they go, giving this explanation for a thing here and another one for the same thing there. Guess that’s not much of a problem when it comes to a couple contradictions between the old and the new episodes, as it is only fiction after all. But I absolutely agree that being as erratic as they where with the justification of phenomenons they established in the reboot – concerning Miracle Day, especially with Captain Jacks immortality – is just sloppy writing. And yes, I do see that a kids series like Doctor Who gets away with much less elaborate background info (like just calling Jack a ´fixed point in time`, whatever that is) than a program for adults, especially if it is for a big part anchored in ´reality`. But coming up with an explanation for his immortality that is in no way connected to the original explanation is a big no-go. Would it have hurt to somehow involve Artron energy? I don’t think so. Drilling a hole straight through the core of a solid cluster of matter could have distorted the spatio-temporal fabric, couldn’t it? And that again could have set free a sort of ´electromagnetic` field of Artron energy, couldn’t it really? It could have rendered ´normal` people pseudoimmortal while at the same time inverting Jack’s Artron charge, thus making him pseudomortal. Sorta like minus and minus equals plus. Even the thing with the `Blessing` (just an innocent’s name for Artron field then) sucking in Jack’s blood might have somewhat worked out, with him being practically the only antipole to the field’s immortality charge. Boy, I’m sure every physicist would tear their hair out reading this. But heck, it would have been good enough for Torchwood. Better and more ´in universe` than what they came up with, anyways.