Buying Second-hand car - stupid question

Gangu

This is probably a stupid question, but I am going to buy my first second hand car tomorrow. Is there a rule of thumb about getting a discount from a dealer? Is it a bit like buying a house when, from time to time, you know that the dealer really expects the asking price to be discounted by a specific amount.


If a car is advertised for 10k (for example) would you expect to pay 8k instead?

Separately is there a "usual" discount when buying for cash? If a car is advertised for 10k (for example) would you expect to pay 7k instead (i.e. the asking price, brought down to the expected price say 8k, PLUS an extra discount for cash)?

Put up a link to the car or a similar one.

Hiace.

You've got to do some research and know the average value of similar cars first (check ad sites) , then knock about 10-15% off that, and compare that with what he's asking.

Cash is not king anymore, legit dealers have to put everything through the books these days, so it makes little difference. Its more help in a private sale.

But also remember, a dealer that has a very good established reputation and after sales service can rightly ask a bit more than the cowboys, as he could never compete with them anyway.

It's an art more than a science.

First time car buying ? Take someone with good experience with you.

naughtysmurf

I used this technique a few years back.....test drove a car, liked it & was happy to buy it, straight deal so no trade in.

After the test drive, asked about the warranty, it was 6 months, just told him I needed 12 months if I was going to buy, offered 12 months no problem.

Told salesman that I really liked the car and I really wanted to buy it today, his face lit up, god love him....told him I had to be somewhere else in 20 minutes and told him all we had to do was agree a price, certainly not the price that was on the windscreen, 2k off asking price in less than a minute.

Remember, the price on the windscreen is the asking price, not THE PRICE, you can negotiate, they factor it in anyway, ask and you will probably receive, if I didn't I would have walked away and I let salesman know it too, they will usually do a deal if at all possible

Gangu

RoverJames wrote: »

Put up a link to the car or a similar one.

It will be a VW Bora 2007-2009 but haven't found a specific one yet

Gangu

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I used this technique a few years back.....test drove a car, liked it & was happy to buy it, straight deal so no trade in.

After the test drive, asked about the warranty, it was 6 months, just told him I needed 12 months if I was going to buy, offered 12 months no problem.

Told salesman that I really liked the car and I really wanted to buy it today, his face lit up, god love him....told him I had to be somewhere else in 20 minutes and told him all we had to do was agree a price, certainly not the price that was on the windscreen, 2k off asking price in less than a minute.

Remember, the price on the windscreen is the asking price, not THE PRICE, you can negotiate, they factor it in anyway, ask and you will probably receive, if I didn't I would have walked away and I let salesman know it too, they will usually do a deal if at all possible

I haven't a clue so it won't happen so quickly, alas; I'll need a mechanic to check it out separately once I find the one.

Gangu

Hiace. wrote: »

You've got to do some research and know the average value of similar cars first (check ad sites) , then knock about 10-15% off that, and compare that with what he's asking.

Cash is not king anymore, legit dealers have to put everything through the books these days, so it makes little difference. Its more help in a private sale.

But also remember, a dealer that has a very good established reputation and after sales service can rightly ask a bit more than the cowboys, as he could never compete with them anyway.

It's an art more than a science.

First time car buying ? Take someone with good experience with you.

It's helpful to know not to overplay the cash angle so. Thanks for this info. Unfortunately I don't know anyone with experience so thus the post!

Tigger

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I used this technique a few years back.....test drove a car, liked it & was happy to buy it, straight deal so no trade in.

After the test drive, asked about the warranty, it was 6 months, just told him I needed 12 months if I was going to buy, offered 12 months no problem.

Told salesman that I really liked the car and I really wanted to buy it today, his face lit up, god love him....told him I had to be somewhere else in 20 minutes and told him all we had to do was agree a price, certainly not the price that was on the windscreen, 2k off asking price in less than a minute.

Remember, the price on the windscreen is the asking price, not THE PRICE, you can negotiate, they factor it in anyway, ask and you will probably receive, if I didn't I would have walked away and I let salesman know it too, they will usually do a deal if at all possible

i'd have let you go

For Forks Sake

Gangu wrote: »

It will be a VW Bora 2007-2009 but haven't found a specific one yet

you'll be doing well to find one of those, they stopped making them in 2006

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/bora-1999/

Gangu

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Gangu wrote: »

It will be a VW Bora 2007-2009 but haven't found a specific one yet

you'll be doing well to find one of those, they stopped making them in 2006

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/bora-1999/

That's hilarious (and pathetic)! It was a car between the Golf and Passat. **** - they'll really see me coming! Hee hee

For Forks Sake

Gangu wrote: »

That's hilarious (and pathetic)! It was a car between the Golf and Passat. **** - they'll really see me coming! Hee hee

The Jetta replaced the Bora http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/jetta-2006/

chinwag

Hiace. wrote: »

You've got to do some research and know the average value of similar cars first (check ad sites) , then knock about 10-15% off that, and compare that with what he's asking.

Cash is not king anymore, legit dealers have to put everything through the books these days, so it makes little difference. Its more help in a private sale.

But also remember, a dealer that has a very good established reputation and after sales service can rightly ask a bit more than the cowboys, as he could never compete with them anyway.

It's an art more than a science.

First time car buying ? Take someone with good experience with you.

I suspect OP feels that being a cash buyer (?) puts him in a strong position with no trade-in baggage - his cash deal query probably has nothing to do with dealers going through the books or not. I would think OP holds a good bargaining position here. Most car buyers would wish to walk into a garage without a trade-in. Otherwise I would agree with the advice given above.

bazz26

OP, if I were you I would bring someone who has experience of dealing with garages and knows how to bargin. No offence but any sales person worth their salt will sense your inexperience straight away and you will end up paying more than you should.

Gangu

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Gangu wrote: »

That's hilarious (and pathetic)! It was a car between the Golf and Passat. **** - they'll really see me coming! Hee hee

The Jetta replaced the Bora http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/jetta-2006/

Jetta, right. Ta

naughtysmurf

Tigger wrote: »

i'd have let you go

Well he didn't, he made the deal. Used cars sitting on garage forecourts are costing them money and anyone who offers the asking price is nuts, there is always flexibility on price but if you don't ask, you wont get

I was looking for a car at the time but not urgently so I was flexible as regards walking and I was nice about it also, not cocky,

In my experience, used cars in the 14K - 20K price bracket there is 2K price flexibility at least

Hiace.

chinwag wrote: »

I suspect OP feels that being a cash buyer (?) puts him in a strong position with no trade-in baggage - his cash deal query probably has nothing to do with dealers going through the books or not. I would think OP holds a good bargaining position here. Most car buyers would wish to walk into a garage without a trade-in. Otherwise I would agree with the advice given above.

Yep, a straight sale car can be bought cheaper than if you're trading in.

If you don't mind the risk trying to sell your car privately, and all those potential tyre kickers calling and texting, this usually works out as a slightly better deal.

Nonoperational

It completely and utterly depends on how the dealer has it priced up. If it's priced tightly at €10k then you might be lucky to get €250 off with cash and no trade in. If they gave themselves a nice margin then you might get some more.

It's not as easy as walking up and offering €7k for a €10k car. Research it, see what it's really worth (donedeal is good for this, forget the average on carzone) and then try and do a good deal.

Hiace.

gpf101 wrote: »

It completely and utterly depends on how the dealer has it priced up. If it's priced tightly at €10k then you might be lucky to get €250 off with cash and no trade in. If they gave themselves a nice margin then you might get some more.

It's not as easy as walking up and offering €7k for a €10k car. Research it, see what it's really worth (donedeal is good for this, forget the average on carzone) and then try and do a good deal.

I would just add that you should use a cross section of sources to give you and idea of the average asking prices/value. Done deal is useful, but is mostly private sale ads, which do not have a legitimate dealers overheads, rates, taxes, warranties, pre sale service costs, reputation, aftersales service etc. to worry about. Private sales will always be cheaper, but granted some private buyers think they can ask dealers prices, and some dealers think they can get away with providing a private sales level of service.

Gangu

Test drove the one I liked today. Thought it was good. Haggled with the dealer and agreed a price subject to getting the mechanic to look at it and making up our minds finally. So now the mechanic is going to call into the dealer to look at it. it's 2008, 1.6 engine with about 80km on the clock (is that a bit high?). Said he'd sell for 8.5k (with a 1k trade in factored into that price). Debating with myself about it being a petrol engine with a lot of mileage...

Any views?
Oh he said he'd no interest in cash.

bazz26

Gangu wrote: »

Test drove the one I liked today. Thought it was good. Haggled with the dealer and agreed a price subject to getting the mechanic to look at it and making up our minds finally. So now the mechanic is going to call into the dealer to look at it. it's 2008, 1.6 engine with about 80km on the clock (is that a bit high?). Said he'd sell for 8.5k (with a 1k trade in factored into that price). Debating with myself about it being a petrol engine with a lot of mileage...

Any views?
Oh he said he'd no interest in cash.

Can you elaberate on this point? He was not interested in taking cash or he was not interested in giving you a straight cash price?

chinwag

Gangu wrote: »

Test drove the one I liked today. Thought it was good. Haggled with the dealer and agreed a price subject to getting the mechanic to look at it and making up our minds finally. So now the mechanic is going to call into the dealer to look at it. it's 2008, 1.6 engine with about 80km on the clock (is that a bit high?). Said he'd sell for 8.5k (with a 1k trade in factored into that price). Debating with myself about it being a petrol engine with a lot of mileage...

Any views?
Oh he said he'd no interest in cash.

So it's a trade-in after all? I thought it was a cash deal.
And garage has no interest in cash? That seems odd.
Good luck with it anyway.

Gangu

I think I confused him and you guys. I can give him cash or a cheque for the car. I have an old car to trade in. I thought the cash advantage was no finance, no instalments etc full price would be paid upfront. Anyway he said that the fact I could pay like this made no difference.

Anyone have any view on the deal itself?

bazz26

Gangu wrote: »

I think I confused him and you guys. I can give him cash or a cheque for the car. I have an old car to trade in. I thought the cash advantage was no finance, no instalments etc full price would be paid upfront. Anyway he said that the fact I could pay like this made no difference.

Anyone have any view on the deal itself?

In the motor trade "cash" deal means that you have no old car to trade in against the newer car. It does not refer to the method of payment. €8.5k via a draft/cheque or notes is still €8.5k to the dealer.

I bet if you had went in and asked for the straight deal price ie no trade-in, you would still have bought the car for €8,500. You could then have sold your old car privately and even if you only got €500 for it then the newer car would only have cost you €8k.

Of course now the dealer knows you are keen on the car, may play hardball and not offer the same discount without the trade-in. Never a good idea to trade-in an old car as they are worth alot less than going in and buying straight.

Gangu

bazz26 wrote: »

In the motor trade "cash" deal means that you have no old car to trade in against the newer car. It does not refer to the method of payment. €8.5k via a draft/cheque or notes is still €8.5k to the dealer.

I didn't know that, as I said it is my first time buying. Thanks

bazz26 wrote: »

I bet if you had went in and asked for the straight deal price ie no trade-in, you would still have bought the car for €8,500. You could then have sold your old car privately and even if you only got €500 for it then the newer car would only have cost you €8k.

Of course now the dealer knows you are keen on the car, may play hardball and not offer the same discount without the trade-in. Never a good idea to trade-in an old car as they are worth alot less than going in and buying straight.

Really? Well that was what I wasn't sure about. The deal is not done yet. Also, one of relations said that you should not buy a petrol car, and that 80k mileage is high. So I have doubts about the thing. I could try to get him to revisit the whole price. I am just a bit out of my depth, thanks Bazz26. I am more used to knowing the price so I'm finding it hard going.

bazz26

Gangu wrote: »

I didn't know that, as I said it is my first time buying. Thanks



Really? Well that was what I wasn't sure about. The deal is not done yet. Also, one of relations said that you should not buy a petrol car, and that 80k mileage is high. So I have doubts about the thing. I could try to get him to revisit the whole price. I am just a bit out of my depth, thanks Bazz26. I am more used to knowing the price so I'm finding it hard going.

Thing is that you are now at a disadvantage where the dealer knows you are very keen on the car and as such will probably not offer you as good a deal if buying straight. But by all means try but I'd still shop around though, don't buy the first car you see, make sure to drive a few and compare prices.

Regarding diesel, if you are not doing 18,000 miles or more a year then you are not going to make the premium back on the price of a diesel car versus the price of a petrol car. Petrol cars are much cheaper to buy and are less mechanically complicated these days than diesel engines. If you do alot of short trips then a modern diesel car is the last thing you want. People these days will recomend a diesel because of the savings on motor tax, price at the pump and because everyone is buying them but don't take into account that they cost more to buy and fix if they break.