Parkway Shopping Centre to be completed.

firesidechat

Developer Liam Carroll had big dreams when he broke ground for this .
Alas , He also fell victim to the economic crash and NAMA soon found itself the caretaker of his portfolio. An extremly savvy investor has just snapped up this property and the existing centre for €30 million.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2011/0907/1224303624013.html

It will be good to see this eyesore come to completion, Or will it ?
Was the original grand scheme too good to be true, ?
Was there ever a market for such a development and will it ever be successful?
Without a doubt it will create employment for the badly needed construction industry.
If the Coonagh shopping centre can't fill it's empty stores what makes us so sure this one will?
If the property is sold for €30 million, How much will the outstanding liability eventually cost the taxpayer as part of the bank bailout scheme?
Marks & Spencer would be a great anchor tenant, but why would they choose this one over the coonagh development ?

Discuss........

Kess73

And our great Mayor has already come out saying that he wants talks with the new owner so that the new owner can run by Mr Mayor what his plans are for the centre, and Mr Mayor has already stated he would be against the shopping centre being built there as it would be bad for the city.


MAYOR SEEKS MEETING WITH PARKWAY VALLEY BUYER
07 September 2011The Mayor of Limerick is seriously concerned about the impact on the city centre of any development at the vacant Parkway Valley Shopping Centre.
Cllr Jim Long is seeking a meeting with the new owner of the site just over the Limerick city boundary which has lain derelict for three years now.
Northern-based developer Suneil Sharma has also acquired the adjoining Parkway Retail Park for 30 million euro.
Mr Sharma was an original investor in the Opera Shopping Centre site but sold it to other developers at a profit.
Mayor Long wants to know what the Indian developers plans are for the Parkway Valley

http://www.live95fm.ie/news/news-item/mayor-seeks-meeting-with-parkway-valley-buyer/a59682ee-6889-417e-82ca-981ed5c2f675

I am getting quite a gigglefest at the idea of a successful international businessman having to listen to our mayor telling him what he should do with his site.:D

Personally the city is already in a mess thanks to the idiots (various councillors with no qualifications or experience in the areas they are making decisions, incompetent local authorities and planners etc) who have had a say in how it should be run, and as such anything that could provide a long term source of employment to the city and county should be welcomed.

Maybe the mayor should be more concerned with the utter failure the city council and authorities have shown themselves to be in terms of looking after the city, and he should be calling for a much closer look at the track records and lack of real achievements from those folk before setting his sights on someone who might actually bring jobs to the area.

L.T.P.

I see that they are requesting an extension on the planning permission. I wonder will he try sell this site on at a vast profit if permission is granted? Hopefully he'll develop and open the centre first...

jamezy

If it brings in jobs that will be great in the short term. Long term would this further the "donut effect"?. It seems that its a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation...

But if i had to go bottom line.... If a wealthy successful man wants to set up a development therefore creating jobs in construction and then retail we should roll out the fraking red carpet.

The Opera Centre will have to wait.

jc84

Marks and spencers would be a great addition and would clean up if they came to Limerick, this would be a better fit rather than coonagh, there seems to be more passing trade where the parkway is and there are already some big stores nearby, coonagh isn't a great spot for any stores now that the motorway has been completed, not as much passing trade and they already have a huge tescos

bazz26

I don't think the NAMA Valley site is much of a bargin at €30m in its current state. The half started underground carpark is submerged under meters of water. The rest of the half built structure has been exposed to the elements for the last 3 years. They may have to rebuild some of it as it is.

munstergirl

Isn't this site limerick county council, so its got nothing to do with city council.

The developer mr sharma made 70 million profit from selling opera centre. So after spending 30 million on this site he's got 40 million to spare. (4 munster rugby matches ) also now he owns retail park tk maxx, homebase one, bringing him in rent of 3m a year. Lucky man, maybe we should name it sharma shopping centre.

It would be great to get some jobs. More people working will give people money to spend in limerick.

Limerick shopping capital of ireland

ABEasy

Am I right in saying this is city council and county council after the groody stream!

Also I was under the impression that planning on nama properties can be extended indefinitely without need for further planning applications, I may be wrong on this I know it was proposed but not sure if it was passed into law.

Don't know what the mayor can say about this now, the time to be objecting was when planning was first sought and given. But that's limerick all over, the concillors only want to see their names in the papers and go missing when something can be done.

Edit; munstergirl got in there before me think the boundaries are groody in castletroy the stream before the crescent in Dooradoyle and it used to be the steam in caherdavin before they extended out to coonagh.

bazz26

The city/county boundry is at the Groody river bridge near Singland Motors, not that it matters anymore since both councils are merging into one.

meoklmrk91

Great news, should bring some new jobs to Limerick which has really suffered a serious downturn in recent years. Makes the place look like an utter dive in its current state.

munstergirl

Headlines of leader online. Fate of parkway valley lies in hands of limerick planner.

Mentions county council.

Cookiemunster

bazz26 wrote: »

The city/county boundry is at the Groody river bridge near Singland Motors, not that it matters anymore since both councils are merging into one.

You're wrong there. TK Max is in the city, everything after that is the county. Its the reason that the City Council originaly objected to the development. The county council gave the original PP and the builders are going back to the County Council to get an extension on planning.
Personally I can't see where they think they're going to get tenants for 50 units when there are empty units in the Crescent, Castletroy SC, Jetland, Parkway SC and all the retail parks.
It'll be a disaster for whats left of the city if built.

Berty

The original consent has run out which means they simply have to re-grant it. They would have to be some morons to put on a project like this on hold for simple red tape.

So long as the terms have not changed in the application then it should be granted.

Dear Cllr Jim Long. We have large unemployment in the trade sector. Shut up and let the International Businessman, who wouldn't have heard of Limerick City before this, get on with his business of putting people back to work.

munstergirl

This developer has heard of limerick before, he was involved in childers rd retail park. One entrance/exit. Then sold it on, & opera centre which he sold on too.

Kess73

Beer Baron wrote: »

The original consent has run out which means they simply have to re-grant it. They would have to be some morons to put on a project like this on hold for simple red tape.

So long as the terms have not changed in the application then it should be granted.

Dear Cllr Jim Long. We have large unemployment in the trade sector. Shut up and let the International Businessman, who wouldn't have heard of Limerick City before this, get on with his business of putting people back to work.

Exactly. Limerick is not so awash with employment that it can pass up on any project that has the potential to create hundreds of jobs.

We all know that the city centre has been pretty much run into the ground, but it would be the height of stupidity to stop other sources of employment coming to the outskirts using the excuse of it damaging a city centre that has been showing no signs of recovery for a number of years now. The unemployment figures for the city alone this year show that it is getting worse month on month.

If a big centre was built by the Parkway and it got tenants for it's units, then there are jobs for unemployed folk which suddenly gives those folk more income to spend.

It would probably draw in people from surrounding counties if the shops were good enough, and that increased footfall could encourage other companies/investors to want to set up in Limerick.


Not to mention the knock on effect in terms of delivery, cleaning, maintenance jobs etc that such a project would spawn.


If the likes of Long want to bluster their shyte about how they are against a job creating project, then he and any others who agree with him should publicly present their detailed plans for creating the same amount of jobs in the city centre. Actual plans with realistic potential and not the same old spoofs about the Opera centre and similar projects that get waffled on about year after year as some kind of proof that the city is going somewhere but that never materialize or shyte like how the new footpaths on William street are going to draw thousands of people to Limerick.

Kess73

munstergirl wrote: »

This developer has heard of limerick before, he was involved in childers rd retail park. One entrance/exit. Then sold it on, & opera centre which he sold on too.

And he owns the retail park with TK Maxx, Pc World etc in it.

Mc Love

On a separate issue I saw the Messr Kiely wouldnt be sitting on the boundary committee - thank god for that!

Cookiemunster

Beer Baron wrote: »

Shut up and let the International Businessman, who wouldn't have heard of Limerick City before this, get on with his business of putting people back to work.

Would it put people back to work though? Yes a few hundred builders would get a years work, but after that can you see the 50 units being filled? Just look at the Jetland or Castletroy SC. They're both practically empty apart from the anchor tennants.

kilburn

Think its daft to build that know with Casteltroy, Jetland, Coonagh practically empty and Parkway not great. Would close most of the shops left in the city. Great some building jobs again but others will lose out.

Interesting to see what the council will do as it goes against the mid west retail staregy to give permission to anymore shopping centres outside of Limerick city centre.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Think its daft to build that know with Casteltroy, Jetland, Coonagh practically empty and Parkway not great. Would close most of the shops left in the city. Great some building jobs again but others will lose out.

Interesting to see what the council will do as it goes against the mid west retail staregy to give permission to anymore shopping centres outside of Limerick city centre.

I agree that it would be daft to build outside the city centre, but only if there was something concrete lined up for the city centre that would suffer as a result.

Vague promises by various councilors and local authorities about this project and that project being almost ready to start have proven to be worthless year after year. As has the almost constant bs about how M&S or similar are in talks to take a unit in the city centre.

The Parkway SC, Jetland SC and the Coonagh SC both fall within the city limits if I am correct so they fall neatly under the banner of yet more retail areas doing awful business within the jurisdiction of the city council.


I would love to see an actual full scale retail project actually get finished in Limerick city centre and get brand name retailers to take up the units but we are no closer to that now than we were 10 years ago, but the same claims keep popping up as if one of the now near mythical projects is somehow near ready to start.


If a developer can build a retail park in the Parkway valley and he can get retailers to commit to taking units then I am all for the idea if there is nothing concrete happening in the city centre. The alternative is to have the council refuse permission for the parkway valley project and still be trotting out the same tired old lines about how a major retail project is on the cared for the city centre for years to come.

Better to have some new jobs in the area than none at all if the choice is to have one project or none.

At the end of August a month where the published unemplyment figures for Limerick city showed that unemployment had increased yet again month on month in Limerick, something that has gotten worse month on month for April, May, June, July, and August, what was the big issue the Mayor went to the media over? Yep the fact that Limerick had nobody in the Rose Of Tralee.

Ahh sure Limerick can have over 23,000 and rising unemployed, but not having someone at the Rose Of Tralee is the real problem for the city.

Look at the story that was running for the last two weeks about the old Dunnes Stores beside Sarsfield bridge being the site of a M&S store, to the degree that it was front page "news" in the Limerick Post. This week's news on that same site? Seems it has been earmarked for a similar clean up job as Patrick street/Rutland street. Big difference to the earlier story that was claiming it was going to be a new big retail centre taking up all of Sarsfield street, some of O'Connell street and even into the Arthurs Quay park.

Berty

If the place gets one or two Anchor tenants then it will be ok.

M&S
Pennys(proper good Pennys like Blanchardstown)
Proper Tesco like Coonagh
Good Foodcourt

The rest will all want to open their stores there. It might give the management of the Crescent a kick up the hole and relax their upward only rent system and "we'll pick you as a tenant scenario" they have going on.

Dunnes, afaik, own the Jetland and being good aul scrooges they ruined any chance of having new tenants by the padlocking of their tenants last year.

Finish the buildling, give some people some work so we don't have to wave them off to Australia/New Zealand and give something positive back to the City/County and surrounding areas.

Christ, we need it.

RonMexico

The only anchor tenant I could see would be M&S. The city does not need another Tesco.

Mc Love

I'd rather a Dunnes over M&S and Tesco! But that side of the city already has two pretty much right beside each other!

M&S aint that great!

Kess73

Mc Love wrote: »

I'd rather a Dunnes over M&S and Tesco! But that side of the city already has two pretty much right beside each other!

M&S aint that great!

Whether they are or are not great, they would be competition for what is in Limerick now, which could force some of the other stores to improve on their current standards and maybe even on pricing to some small degree.

Plus a medium to large M&S store could be responsible for up to 100 jobs by itself along with the knock on effect of extra cleaners, delivery men etc.

Then start totting up all the extra jobs that the other units would bring (and the other units would start to fill quickly if M&S were confirmed as an anchor) and suddenly we are looking at hundreds of new jobs.


I am sure that there are plenty in this forum that would be delighted to get a job there if it comes about.

RonMexico

The over-saturation of retails outlets and hotels in Limerick never ceases to amaze me. Limerick does not have the population to support these businesses, hence the 60+ page thread on businesses closing.

Berty

Yes now that Superquinn is owned by Musgrave the "elite" of Limerick need someplace else to shop. M&S would be it.

(tongue in cheek)

Oh...............build it and put a Wagamama in it. I'd be there most nights.

bazz26

Everytime news on a retail development reaches the local paper the first name out of the hat is always M&S.

Also my own personal opinion is that the last thing that the city suberbs needs is another half empty glass/concrete retail centre. We have enough of these left over from the boom days.

pigtown

Kess73 wrote: »

Whether they are or are not great, they would be competition for what is in Limerick now, which could force some of the other stores to improve on their current standards and maybe even on pricing to some small degree.

Plus a medium to large M&S store could be responsible for up to 100 jobs by itself along with the knock on effect of extra cleaners, delivery men etc.

Then start totting up all the extra jobs that the other units would bring (and the other units would start to fill quickly if M&S were confirmed as an anchor) and suddenly we are looking at hundreds of new jobs.


I am sure that there are plenty in this forum that would be delighted to get a job there if it comes about.

Everything you say here is true but that doesn't mean that the major retailer has to be M&S. I would argue that the best way of encouraging people to shop in Limerick is to attract stores that aren't that common in Ireland.

What's wrong with asking Arnotts to consider a branch in Limerick? Or why not El Corte Ingles or whatever the German/Swiss/wherever equivilant of M&S is? Sure, they might say no but they also might say yes.

As far as I know there is an M&S in Killarney, Clonmel, Cork, Waterford, Athlone, Galway. It would be reasonable to suggest that none of these towns are too far away to facilitate reasonably frequent shopping day trips but if the biggest new draw in Limerick already exists in their town then whats the attraction?

Kess73

pigtown wrote: »

Everything you say here is true but that doesn't mean that the major retailer has to be M&S. I would argue that the best way of encouraging people to shop in Limerick is to attract stores that aren't that common in Ireland.

What's wrong with asking Arnotts to consider a branch in Limerick? Or why not El Corte Ingles or whatever the German/Swiss/wherever equivilant of M&S is? Sure, they might say no but they also might say yes.

As far as I know there is an M&S in Killarney, Clonmel, Cork, Waterford, Athlone, Galway. It would be reasonable to suggest that none of these towns are too far away to facilitate reasonably frequent shopping day trips but if the biggest new draw in Limerick already exists in their town then whats the attraction?

Oh it could be any big name other than M&S, I was just saying that I would prefer to see them come in instead of another Dunnes or Tesco.

As for some of the places you mention that already have M&S in their area, well bar the Cork one the rest are notoverly big M&S stores and do not stock the full M&S range. A similar sized M&S in Limerick to the one in Cork would do great business imho.

Would have no problem with another big name store coming in either as long as it attracted other retailers and plenty of customers.

In my eyes anything that can provide lots of medium to long term jobs in Limerick is a great thing. I would like it to happen ion the city centre, but if it cannot happen in the city centre then I would rather it happen in the suburbs than not at all.

crackcrack30

Should have been donated to UL for a new innovation/science complex ect.
Or converted into a public/private hospital to ease the pressure on the regional.
Opening a shoping centre would be a nail in the coffin of two or three smaller ones

flutered

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Should have been donated to UL for a new innovation/science complex ect.
Or converted into a public/private hospital to ease the pressure on the regional.
Opening a shoping centre would be a nail in the coffin of two or three smaller ones

nice to see someone who has not shopping centres on the brain

Berty

Yeah let's give the site away to the University instead. That would be NAMA/Tax Payers money very well spent.

No folks, let's finish the building that was started and put some damn people back to work, if even in the short term.

It is NOT our money and we have no say in the matter so let's make the best of it whilst the money is back in town for a while.

Mc Love

We should definetly make part of it into a leisure complex! A public swimming pool is badly needed! People in the area havent been able to wash their horses since Roxboro closed down

Kess73

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Should have been donated to UL for a new innovation/science complex ect.
Or converted into a public/private hospital to ease the pressure on the regional.
Opening a shoping centre would be a nail in the coffin of two or three smaller ones

Why should the site just be donated to UL? Ir they wanted it it was for sale up until the recent purchase of the land.

As for a private hospital going there, well we all say the joke of an attempt of a private hospital just off of the dock road, why waste even more money on another non attempt. No chance of a public hospital either given that the Regional has had wards closed to cut costs.


If the owner wants to build a shopping centre or whatever on it (PP permitting of course) then more power to him if it brings in new jobs. Three of the worst performing shopping centres at present are within the city limits so it is a bit rich of the city council to start crying about centres in the county doing damage when the only shopping centre that is actually in the county and doing good business is the Crescent shopping centre and that is 38 years there.

Maybe they are saying that in the past 38 years they have been unable to attract a major project on a similar scale into the city centre.


Now I agree that there are some waste of space projects (both commerical and housing) outside the city limits, it would be stupid to prevent any new out of town projects that look like they could be viable if there is nothing at all on the cards for the city anyway, bar the usual spoof talk about amazing city centre projects that come to nowt.

Kess73

Mc Love wrote: »

We should definetly make part of it into a leisure complex! A public swimming pool is badly needed! People in the area havent been able to wash their horses since Roxboro closed down

The original plans had an ice rink along with a leisure centre to go with the retail units and a food court.

tipptom

Jeez,all the money Liam Carroll put in to digging out the underground on that site alone,i dont think i have ever seen the car park next door even half full even during the boom.This guy seems to be a smart cookie,sold of the opeara site to irish eejits and then buys of a non nama bank for 30 incl next door with 3 mill a year and you can be sure danske is throwing in some nice sweetners on the build as well seeing as they say its a "collabaration" between them even though he owns it 100%.Its definetly a buyers market out there but i would say he is sh*tting himself in anticapation of the summonce from the mayor of Limerick to give him his expertise.

Henry Ford III

This guy must be nuts. Strikes me he paid an awful lot for an absolute pig of a site. It'll take huge money just to complete it. Even when/if he does there's no business to support it.

Any new tenants should think really carefully about leasing space. People are broke, and sales simply won't be strong enough to cover costs.

Retail space is already dirt cheap in Limerick. Why the need for any more?

Cookiemunster

Kess73 wrote: »

The Parkway SC, Jetland SC and the Coonagh SC both fall within the city limits if I am correct so they fall neatly under the banner of yet more retail areas doing awful business within the jurisdiction of the city council.

Parkway SC seems to be doing fine to me. Most of the units were occupied the last time I was out there. The Jetland was built in the county as was Coonagh. Both were inherited (and opposed) by the city. Both were pie in the sky Celtic Tiger projects which would probably still be empty if they were still in the county. How do you explain Castletry SC? Thats in the county and its doing far was worse than the Parkway.

Kess73 wrote: »

If a developer can build a retail park in the Parkway valley and he can get retailers to commit to taking units then I am all for the idea if there is nothing concrete happening in the city centre.

Would he be able to get major retailers to commit though? In that area you've already got Childers Road, Parkway retail park, Parkway SC, Eastway, Castletroy SC and most of the major brands are already there. Rates won't be an issue after the amalgamation so I can't see any of them moving.
I doubted the ability to fill this center when it was first mooted during the boom as there was already plenty of empty retail space in the area back then.

Kess73

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Parkway SC seems to be doing fine to me. Most of the units were occupied the last time I was out there. The Jetland was built in the county as was Coonagh. Both were inherited (and opposed) by the city. Both were pie in the sky Celtic Tiger projects which would probably still be empty if they were still in the county. How do you explain Castletry SC? Thats in the county and its doing far was worse than the Parkway.



Would he be able to get major retailers to commit though? In that area you've already got Childers Road, Parkway retail park, Parkway SC, Eastway, Castletroy SC and most of the major brands are already there. Rates won't be an issue after the amalgamation so I can't see any of them moving.
I doubted the ability to fill this center when it was first mooted during the boom as there was already plenty of empty retail space in the area back then.

For one thing the location is not a bad one if the range of shops is good. I did say in my earlier posts that I would be for it if a viable plan was in place, as in retailers putting pen to paper to commit to units.


If we follow the logic that brands won't move due to rates not being an issue, then there is no reason for any major brands to be even slightly interested in going to the city centre as well. Why would any major retailer want to go to a city centre that has a very poor set up in terms of loading areas for deliveries, that has loads and loads of dead units and quite a low footfall for a city centre?

I agree with you that there would be no point in building the Parkway Valley SC if it is built without having retailers lined up in advance, but if that is in place then I would be for it.


One thing that this particular developer has to his name is that the shopping centres and retail parks that he has built in both Ireland and the UK and then sold on have one thing in common. That one common factor is that all his completed SCs and Retail parks had full tenancy when he sold them on and it seems to be a pattern with him when it comes to completed projects. That is the main reason why he looks a good option in my eyes, and far better than the Irish developers who are looking to extend the Coonagh SC despite it having 16 out of 17 units empty or the Limerick developer who wants planning permission to build even more houses onto a development of his that is already full of empty houses.

If you look at many of the retail parks and shopping centres in Limerick that are half empty or worse, I reckon a google search or similar on most of them will show a few interesting patterns in terms of the nationality of the developers and the pattern of the same developers in building projects with no tenants lined up for their units.

diol07

It's all very well saying roll it out cos the region needs the jobs etc but the reality is that a shopping centre is the last thing that Limerick needs. It will be another white elephant. The Parkway/Castletroy area has already tried and failed twice to house prominent commercial shopping centres. The area has been a graveyard for many a business over the last number of years, even outside of those centres. This will be Coonagh MKII, only bigger.

The only shopping centre that is operating successfully in Limerick is the Crescent - and that's with half the retailers paying vastly reduced rents, something which the Crescent's owners have had to accept. Rents have dropped in the Crescent, yet there are still prime units empty and units closing on a regular basis. If you look at that, the City and all the other struggling shopping centres dotted around the doughnut, who exactly do ye expect will fill the Parkway Valley? Sure, the developer could probably offer attractive rents and clauses to prospective tenants, but the real question is where is the money going to come from to support these businesses? Can't see it myself, Limerick's population isn't big enough to support another 50 units or another shopping centre, the extra money or affluence to do so just ain't there. Even if it were to be a success, it would most certainly only take away from the City and Crescent anyway. It's pointless. Limerick is not Dublin or London, we're a tiny area and the Crescent and the City struggling tells it's own story that is obviously not being heeded to!

Amazotheamazing

diol07 wrote: »

It's all very well saying roll it out cos the region needs the jobs etc but the reality is that a shopping centre is the last thing that Limerick needs. It will be another white elephant. The Parkway/Castletroy area has already tried and failed twice to house prominent commercial shopping centres. The area has been a graveyard for many a business over the last number of years, even outside of those centres. This will be Coonagh MKII, only bigger.

The only shopping centre that is operating successfully in Limerick is the Crescent - and that's with half the retailers paying vastly reduced rents, something which the Crescent's owners have had to accept. Rents have dropped in the Crescent, yet there are still prime units empty and units closing on a regular basis. If you look at that, the City and all the other struggling shopping centres dotted around the doughnut, who exactly do ye expect will fill the Parkway Valley? Sure, the developer could probably offer attractive rents and clauses to prospective tenants, but the real question is where is the money going to come from to support these businesses? Can't see it myself, Limerick's population isn't big enough to support another 50 units or another shopping centre, the extra money or affluence to do so just ain't there. Even if it were to be a success, it would most certainly only take away from the City and Crescent anyway. It's pointless. Limerick is not Dublin or London, we're a tiny area and the Crescent and the City struggling tells it's own story that is obviously not being heeded to!

Exactly.

The future for the Midwest, not just Limerick city, imo, should be based around three things. 1) UL making it attractive for high-end jobs to be located here, 2) local industries becoming significant employers, 3) complete revitalisation of the tourist industry.

Construction and retail are not the answer. We've already built enough retail park on the outskirts of Limerick, half the ones on the dock road are empty. Coonagh Cross is empty, Superquinn is empty, Jetlands is empty.

Whatever work could be gotten from turning the Parkway valley into a shopping centre could equally be gotten from turning it into a research facility, a sports complex, whatever.

Some people are missing the big picture in their eagerness to have a cut off the Mayor. Limerick is already oversupplied with retail space, let's get imaginative and turn it into something the midwest needs.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Exactly.

The future for the Midwest, not just Limerick city, imo, should be based around three things. 1) UL making it attractive for high-end jobs to be located here, 2) local industries becoming significant employers, 3) complete revitalisation of the tourist industry.

Construction and retail are not the answer. We've already built enough retail park on the outskirts of Limerick, half the ones on the dock road are empty. Coonagh Cross is empty, Superquinn is empty, Jetlands is empty.

Whatever work could be gotten from turning the Parkway valley into a shopping centre could equally be gotten from turning it into a research facility, a sports complex, whatever.

Some people are missing the big picture in their eagerness to have a cut off the Mayor. Limerick is already oversupplied with retail space, let's get imaginative and turn it into something the midwest needs.

With over 23,000 people unemployed in Limerick, some 16,000 of those being within the City limits, high end jobs are not what is needed to make a dent in those figures.


A sports complex and ice rink were part of the original plans for the centre, it was never planned to be just a retail centre.

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Some people are missing the big picture in their eagerness to have a cut off the Mayor. Limerick is already oversupplied with retail space, let's get imaginative and turn it into something the midwest needs.

Fine, who's paying for your grand schemes of research facilities and/or a sports complex?

Amazotheamazing

Beer Baron wrote: »

Fine, who's paying for your grand schemes of research facilities and/or a sports complex?

UL, ideally.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

With over 23,000 people unemployed in Limerick, some 16,000 of those being within the City limits, high end jobs are not what is needed to make a dent in those figures.


A sports complex and ice rink were part of the original plans for the centre, it was never planned to be just a retail centre.

Read my entire post, we need to restructure the midwest's economy. We do need some manufacturing, I'd prefer if it was from Irish businesses. However, the future for all Irish workers, not just those currently unemployed, is great education and better skills.

A few months building work and a few empty shop units is not going to change the region around.

Cookiemunster

Kess73 wrote: »

With over 23,000 people unemployed in Limerick, some 16,000 of those being within the City limits

This is something thats thrown about a lot that is actually incorrect. While 16,000 people do sign on in Cecil Street, that includes people from Castletroy, Raheen, Dooradoyle etc. as far out as Patrickswell. So while still bad, its 16,000 out of around 100,000 not 16,000 out of 56,000.

On checking Limerick City, Kildimo, Adare, Croom, Pallasgreen, Caherconlish, Castleconnell, Killaloe, O'Briensbridge, Clonlara, Sixmilebrdge, Meelick and Newport are the ares covered by Limerick City.

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

UL, ideally.

Right the price for the property is €30 million. I know UL is normally flush but I don't even they can get a bond for that amount.

I thought UL had 3 sports facilities, a Boat Club and another facility out on Lough Derg. Is that not enough?

http://www.ul.ie/ul-campus/sports/

Amazotheamazing

Beer Baron wrote: »

Right the price for the property is €30 million. I know UL is normally flush but I don't even they can get a bond for that amount.

I thought UL had 3 sports facilities, a Boat Club and another facility out on Lough Derg. Is that not enough?

http://www.ul.ie/ul-campus/sports/

The right price is whatever someone will pay for it. I personally think it's next to worthless as half the buildings will probably have to come down.

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The right price is whatever someone will pay for it. I personally think it's next to worthless as half the buildings will probably have to come down.

That may be so(knocking of exposed concrete structures) but the value of the land it sits upon is quite valuable considering it comes with FULL planning permission it makes the land more than just some mud and grass, wouldn't you agree.

It would be kind of like you going into a car dealership and suggesting that you will only pay €1,000 for a €15,000 car because that is what you are willing to pay for it.

This building project is bigger than Limerick City/County Councillors, bigger than a few boardsies and bigger than anything NAMA could achieve. Let the big boys have their building, suffer the losses if it does not work out and let us get some work from it and hopefully some future retail space.

Amazotheamazing

Beer Baron wrote: »

That may be so(knocking of exposed concrete structures) but the value of the land it sits upon is quite valuable considering it comes with FULL planning permission it makes the land more than just some mud and grass, wouldn't you agree.

It would be kind of like you going into a car dealership and suggesting that you will only pay €1,000 for a €15,000 car because that is what you are willing to pay for it.

This building project is bigger than Limerick City/County Councillors, bigger than a few boardsies and bigger than anything NAMA could achieve. Let the big boys have their building, suffer the losses if it does not work out and let us get some work from it and hopefully some future retail space.

You're in dreamland if you think land prices are ever going back to where they were. Planning permission for retail units nobody needs. Just cause it was worth something a few years back doesn't mean it's still worth that today or will ever be worth it again.

It's myopic to think that building retail units will somehow turn back the clock, actually, it's worse than myopic, it's depressing. That era has passed. The only reason a project like the Opera centre still makes sense is because there's no similar centre in the city already. Anyone who wants to shop on the outskirts of Limerick city has already plenty of choice and plenty of decent roads to get from A to B. If there was demand, you wouldn't see as empty units around the place.

This project is in no way bigger than Limerick or bigger than NAMA, and frankly, it's borderline hysterical to say that it is. NAMA, ffs, holds assets nominally worth billions.

Berty

I don't know what post you read but it wasn't mine.

I SAID

but the value of the land it sits upon is quite valuable considering it comes with FULL planning permission it makes the land more than just some mud and grass, wouldn't you agree.

Land A - No Planning permission for Shopping Centre

Land B - Planning Permission for Shopping Centre

Look. The property was worth €100m and was sold by Nama for €30m. Nama are a simply liquidator and like all liquidators they sell stock below market value. The property could be still worth €60m but he got it for €30m.

You cannot assume that the Land is worthless because the boom times are over. Approved Planning Permission for a shopping centre is(I would assume) a hard thing to get(and quite costly) so if that is attached to the land then the Land IS worth more money.

That was my point. Dreamland......................sheesh. :rolleyes: