Distance from side of road?

mathie

Sorry I'd a search but couldn't find anything ...

What is the maximum distance that a cyclist can be from the side of the road?

thanks
m

Idleater

mathie wrote: »

Sorry I'd a search but couldn't find anything ...

What is the maximum distance that a cyclist can be from the side of the road?

thanks
m

Mathematically, the exact centre of the road.

Legally, assuming ROI roads, the furthest extent to the right, would be to the left of the centre line where the line is solid. Where the line is not solid, the cyclist may be further from their own side of the road than to the other side whilst overtaking.

flatface

I am pretty far from the side of the road right now. Why you ask?

blorg

There is no specific distance specified in the legislation, if that is what you are asking.

S.I. No. 182/1997 &#8212 wrote: »

Drive on Left

9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

markcroninbsc

just keep in off the ****in road

Tonyandthewhale

As Blorg pointed out, the legislation doesn't specify. Personally I like to be about 1.5m* from the side of the road as this leaves me far enough out so that cars are less inclined to try and squeeze past me dangerously and it leaves me room to manoeuvre around obstacles such as potholes and cars poking out of side-roads and the like. Having said that, I will often pull in further to the side of the road to avoid holding up a massive line of cars if I can do so safely. Similarly I will sometimes move even further out into the lane to prevent dodgy over-taking and ensure a sufficient line of sight around tight corners.

Essentially it's conditions that dictate not law.

*maybe less on busy city roads but never less than 0.5m.

ROK ON

markcroninbsc wrote: »

just keep in off the ****in road

Nonsense.

Drive out from the verge to such a distance that if you meet an obstacle you hae options which way to veer. Furthermore, by being a say 0.5m or so out from the verge you make vehicles behind you aware that they must overtake yoou if on a narrow road, as opposed to the more dangerous maneuver of skimming past (which can force the cyclist into the ditch.
I am not advocating cycling in the middle of the road holding up all an sundry, I just dont believe in the keep as far in off the road as possible either. There is a happy compromise. On country roads I usually stay about an armwidth or so from the edge and further out if coming to a corner, such that the vehicle behind me can catually see me.

markcroninbsc

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

As Blorg pointed out, the legislation doesn't specify. Personally I like to be about 1.5m from the side of the road as this leaves me far enough out so that cars are less inclined to try and squeeze past me dangerously and it leaves me room to manoeuvre around obstacles such as potholes and cars poking out of side-roads and the like. Having said that, I will often pull in further to the side of the road to avoid holding up a massive line of cars if I can do so safely. Similarly I will sometimes move even further out into the lane to prevent dodgy over-taking and ensure a sufficient line of sight around tight corners.

Essentially it's conditions that dictate not law.

id have to reiterate, keep in off the ****in road! theres never any reason to be 1.5 meters from the side of the road. thats just actin the eejit really. 1 or 2 foot is more than enough in any case. cars wouldnt have to make dangerous overtakin maneuvers if you just kept in off the road.

Dermot Illogical

markcroninbsc wrote: »

id have to reiterate, keep in off the ****in road! theres never any reason to be 1.5 meters from the side of the road. thats just actin the eejit really. 1 or 2 foot is more than enough in any case. cars wouldnt have to make dangerous overtakin maneuvers if you just kept in off the road.

Reiterating won't make you any less wrong. 1 or 2 foot is dangerously close at times. And nobody ever has to do dangerous overtakes.

Beasty

markcroninbsc wrote: »

just keep in off the ****in road

Other posters come up with helpful contributions, and you pile in with a statement like that

Do it again and I'll assume you're trolling

Thanks

Beasty

Tonyandthewhale

mark, do you even know what a dangerous over-taking manoeuvre is? 1 or 2 foot puts leaves you with no room to avoid pot-holes or cars pulling out of drives and it also means you'll often end up riding on double yellow lines which are slippery in the wet.

More importantly if you're that far cars are more likely to over-take you when there's on-coming traffic so if they've mis-judged the gap or you swerve to avoid an obstacle or because of a gust of wind while they're passing mere inches to the right then ka-blamo, you're a dead man. If you can't safely pass a cyclist 1 to 1.5m out in the road then you can't safely pass a cyclist a foot from the side of the road. If you don't like the reality's of safe-over taking then you should stay off the road.

coolbeans

markcroninbsc wrote: »

id have to reiterate, keep in off the ****in road! theres never any reason to be 1.5 meters from the side of the road. thats just actin the eejit really. 1 or 2 foot is more than enough in any case. cars wouldnt have to make dangerous overtakin maneuvers if you just kept in off the road.

Clueless. I wouldn't even engage with anyone spouting this kind of crap at this stage. Most know better. Don't feed the troll.

markcroninbsc

Beasty wrote: »

Other posters come up with helpful contributions, and you pile in with a statement like that

Do it again and I'll assume you're trolling

Thanks

Beasty

but its ignorant to keep 1.5 meters out on the road at all times. if your on a narrow country road that means noone can ever get passed you, and if your coming towards a left hand turn your likely to get run over by some **** speeding in a car cutting the corner coming the other direction. 1 or 2 feet is more than enough in most cases. you should only need to be 1.5 meters out if your see some obstruction ahead. Safe left thats what i say.

markcroninbsc

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

mark, do you even know what a dangerous over-taking manoeuvre is? 1 or 2 foot puts leaves you with no room to avoid pot-holes or cars pulling out of drives and it also means you'll often end up riding on double yellow lines which are slippery in the wet.

More importantly if you're that far cars are more likely to over-take you when there's on-coming traffic so if they've mis-judged the gap or you swerve to avoid an obstacle or because of a gust of wind while they're passing mere inches to the right then ka-blamo, you're a dead man. If you can't safely pass a cyclist 1 to 1.5m out in the road then you can't safely pass a cyclist a foot from the side of the road. If you don't like the reality's of safe-over taking then you should stay off the road.

if your out 1.5 meters then the car has no option but to pass you with mere inches between ye on most irish roads. is there no pot holes 1.5 meters out on the road? thats a new one

Beasty

markcroninbsc wrote: »

but its ignorant to keep 1.5 meters out on the road at all times. if your on a narrow country road that means noone can ever get passed you, and if your coming towards a left hand turn your likely to get run over by some **** speeding in a car cutting the corner coming the other direction. 1 or 2 feet is more than enough in most cases. you should only need to be 1.5 meters out if your see some obstruction ahead. Safe left thats what i say.

1.5 meters had not been mentioned before your post, you just made a sweeping statement that could have been aimed at any or indeed all of the previous posters

coolbeans

mathie wrote: »

Sorry I'd a search but couldn't find anything ...

What is the maximum distance that a cyclist can be from the side of the road?

thanks
m

Take whatever space you need but do try to be considerate regarding other road users whilst not accepting bullying behaviour or attempts to overtake dangerously. One or two feet is the bare minimum on marble smooth roads. On typically Irish roads it's usually inadequate.

Lumen

markcroninbsc wrote: »

if your out 1.5 meters then the car has no option but to pass you with mere inches between ye on most irish roads.

There are several other obvious options.

markcroninbsc

Beasty wrote: »

1.5 meters had not been mentioned before your post, you just made a sweeping statement that could have been aimed at any or indeed all of the previous posters

the original question was how far can you possible cycle from the side of the road, which is a completely stupid question. how far from the side is a safe distance would have been a better question. i only said cycling 1.5 meters from the raod was too much after someone else mentioned it. and i still stand by that. thats only ok i think if theres obvious obstructions ahead. 2 feet is more than enough in most cases. anyone i think who cycles 1.5 meters from the side of the road at all times is a muppet.

markcroninbsc

Lumen wrote: »

There are several other obvious options.

well that was the polite option. the right option would be to run the muppet over

Idleater

markcroninbsc wrote: »

anyone i think who cycles 1.5 meters from the side of the road at all times is a muppet.

That's the idea.

You see them, think they are a muppet, and what to people who are muppets do?
Erratic non sensical things.
What to sensible people like your good self do when they have seen a muppet doing muppetlike things?
They drive accordingly and give them a wide berth so that nothing that the muppet does impacts on their good selves.

Tonyandthewhale

I never said 1.5m at all times. I said you should pull in further if you could do so safely if there were cars backed up behind you and I said conditions dictate. I also said this was the norm on country roads (where I clock up most of my miles) and might be different on busier city roads (provided the general traffic is moving a significantly different speed than the person on the bike) although admittedly that was an edit so it's not your fault if you didn't see it.

I love how suggest that there's no other option but to pass with mere inches when someone's riding 1.5m from the side of the road. I mean obviously you couldn't consider changing lanes when over-taking, or simply waiting behind them or waiting for the road to widen?

Also I'd just like to add, 1 or 2 foot is well within the door zone if there's on street parking and that **** hurts. Also, it's much harder to turn right if you don't already have a presence in the lane.

markcroninbsc

Idleater wrote: »

That's the idea.

You see them, think they are a muppet, and what to people who are muppets do? Erratic non sensical things. What to sensible people like your good self do when they have seen a muppet doing muppetlike things? They drive accordingly and give them a wide berth so that nothing that the muppet does impacts on their good selves.

is there something wrong with your keyboard or did you just type that in a savage rush?

Idleater

markcroninbsc wrote: »

is there something wrong with your keyboard or did you just type that in a savage rush?

iwasdesperatelytryingtogettothesideoftheroadsoIwouldn'tbeinyourwaylong

Tonyandthewhale

markcroninbsc wrote: »

is there something wrong with your keyboard or did you just type that in a savage rush?

Yeah idleater, are you serioulsy suggesting Mark shouldn't run people down in his car? Please, we're trying to have a serious debate here without interference from the ultra PC-anti-running-people-down-in-your-car brigade.

busyliving

I'm open to correction here...but don't horses and bikes have the right of way on the road ahead of cars?

markcroninbsc

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

I never said 1.5m at all times. I said you should pull in further if you could do so safely if there were cars backed up behind you and I said conditions dictate. I also said this was the norm on country roads (where I clock up most of my miles) and might be different on busier city roads (provided the general traffic is moving a significantly different speed than the person on the bike) although admittedly that was an edit so it's not your fault if you didn't see it.

I love how suggest that there's no other option but to pass with mere inches when someone's riding 1.5m from the side of the road. I mean obviously you couldn't consider changing lanes when over-taking, or simply waiting behind them or waiting for the road to widen?

Also I'd just like to add, 1 or 2 foot is well within the door zone if there's on street parking and that **** hurts. Also, it's much harder to turn right if you don't already have a presence in the lane.

Ah no i will say its fair enough to cycle out a bit if theres parked cars and stuff like that, but most people on here will tell you to cycle at all times 1.5 meters out. i just think thats stupid, and you see alot of people doing that when your out and about. cycling close to the edge doesnt mean its harder to turn right either, you just have to signal and get into position in time. I'm a cyclist (not a very good one) and have been cycling for 20 years but i still hate when im out drivin and see some feckin eejit out cyclin in the middle of the road when theres no need

Idleater

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Yeah idleater, are you serioulsy suggesting Mark shouldn't run people down in his car?

I was , It's ok though, I've seen the error in my ways and realise that there is in fact only one way to pass a cyclist when there is oncoming traffic, and that is to drive them into the hedge.

I assume markcroninbsc will have no problem with driving into the nearest hardshoulder/side road to let me past when I want to overtake him on my motorbike.

seamus

markcroninbsc wrote: »

the original question was how far can you possible cycle from the side of the road, which is a completely stupid question.

Actually the question was what is the maximum distance, presumably being asked in a legal context.
In a legal context, there is no maximum possible distance. A cyclist is entitled to occupy any part of the left-hand side of the road, just as every other vehicle is.

how far from the side is a safe distance would have been a better question. i only said cycling 1.5 meters from the raod was too much after someone else mentioned it. and i still stand by that. thats only ok i think if theres obvious obstructions ahead. 2 feet is more than enough in most cases. anyone i think who cycles 1.5 meters from the side of the road at all times is a muppet.

That really depends on what you're measuring, doesn't it? If I cycle 1 metre out from the side of the road, then realistically my shoulders are about 0.5m wide, so assuming that there is 1m on my left-hand side, then I am occupying 1.5m of road space.

Of course, if you consider the distance as the distance from the kerb to my wheel (as it is typically measured), then 2 feet from the side of the road is about 1 foot in reality (since half my body will be closer to the kerb than my wheel), which is far too close.

For safety's sake, the cyclist should have an equal amount of space on either side when vehicles are overtaking. This means that even if the vehicle swerves suddenly and consumes any additional space they had given the cyclist, the cyclist has twice that space to take evading action and avoid hitting either the vehicle or the kerb.

With that in mind, 2 feet is far too close for a vehicle to pass safely. Try having a bus blow by within 2 feet of you and you'll realise this. 1m would be an absolute minimum distance, 1.25m - 1.5 metres is ideal to maximise room should either vehicle need to swerve.

Which leads to an obvious conclusion that in order to maintain equal space on both sides, a cyclist should be 1 - 1.5m out from the kerb at all times. Of course, most people are flexible on this, moving into allow space for following traffic to pass. The problem is that if you get into this habit, one day you will really, really need that extra room to avoid a crash, but you've just sacrificed it in the interests of letting someone pass you too close.

Most road lanes are 3m wide in this country. Country roads are smaller obviously, but rarely smaller than 5m total width

In all cases, this provides ample room to overtake the cyclist, with clearance.

markcroninbsc

Idleater wrote: »

I was , It's ok though, I've seen the error in my ways and realise that there is in fact only one way to pass a cyclist when there is oncoming traffic, and that is to drive them into the hedge.

I assume markcroninbsc will have no problem with driving into the nearest hardshoulder/side road to let me past when I want to overtake him on my motorbike.

i always try to give the lads on motor bikes a bit of room. them lads are all ****in eejits and will try pass you when its not safe (even if you command the lane) so i always find its safest to pull in a little and leave them off.

markcroninbsc

seamus wrote: »

Most road lanes are 3m wide in this country. Country roads are smaller obviously, but rarely smaller than 5m.

In all cases, this provides ample room to overtake the cyclist, with clearance.

So your saying on a country road (using your 1.5 meters from the wheel then add half your body width thing which didnt really make all that much sense) on a country road you should cycle about a foot or two away from the middle line on the road at all times?

Lumen

markcroninbsc wrote: »

So your saying on a country road (using your 1.5 meters from the wheel then add half your body width thing which didnt really make all that much sense) on a country road you should cycle about a foot or two away from the middle line on the road at all times?

There's this amazing thing called "the other side of the road". Believe it or not, some road users are so spectacularly competent that they can use it for overtaking without crashing.

reilig

How many people here would cycle on the road even if there was a good hard shoulder available?

I live close to the N4 and there are a number of local cyclists who cycle on this road regularly and they do not go onto the hard shoulder. Certainly any time that I am ever cycling on it, I will stick within the bounds of the hard shoulder if I can, but some cyclists seem to get a thrill by forcing cars to have to drive slowly behind them when approaching a turn or oncoming traffic and giving the car daggers or the fingers when it passes them out.

seamus

markcroninbsc wrote: »

So your saying on a country road (using your 1.5 meters from the wheel then add half your body width thing which didnt really make all that much sense) on a country road you should cycle about a foot or two away from the middle line on the road at all times?

Observing the 1 - 1.5m rule on a country road will leave a cyclist in the middle of the left-hand lane.

Exactly where they should be.

On a very tight road (i.e. room for one vehicle to pass), the cyclist will be in the middle of the road. Again, correct position.

markcroninbsc

Lumen wrote: »

There's this amazing thing called "the other side of the road". Believe it or not, some road users are so spectacularly competent that they can use it for overtaking without crashing.

thats a bit of a silly statement. and its just what im talking about. maybe its just a dublin thing but thers a lot of eejits on bikes these days. i blame the bike to work scheme. why not just show some manners and keep in off the road when its safe to do so? if your on a coad with no parked cars and no side roads comin up why would you need to cycle in the middle of the road? just to be ignorant?

markcroninbsc

seamus wrote: »

Observing the 1 - 1.5m rule on a country road will leave a cyclist in the middle of the left-hand lane.

Exactly where they should be.

On a very tight road (i.e. room for one vehicle to pass), the cyclist will be in the middle of the road. Again, correct position.

i hope you meet some oncoming traffic sometime while cycling in the middle of the road.

Idleater

markcroninbsc wrote: »

i always try to give the lads on motor bikes a bit of room.

Good, but you'll have to do better than that. Trying is no use in this world, I'm looking for action, and doing. Get off the road, pull in, stop, I don't care how long it delays you, just let faster traffic by.

"Trying" :rolleyes: ffs, can you believe you actually admitted to not doing it all the time? Can you imagine how irritating that is to other drivers when you don't get out of their way because "you don't think it's safe to do so"?

Look, mark, I'll level with you, you're not a great driver and you really shouldn't be behind the wheel if you aren't going to show faster traffic a bit of respect and pull immediately over. You should sell the car and stick to the bicycle as that seems to be just within your ability.

markcroninbsc

Idleater wrote: »

Good, but you'll have to do better than that. Trying is no use in this world, I'm looking for action, and doing. Get off the road, pull in, stop, I don't care how long it delays you, just let faster traffic by.

"Trying" :rolleyes: ffs, can you believe you actually admitted to not doing it all the time? Can you imagine how irritating that is to other drivers when you don't get out of their way because "you don't think it's safe to do so"?

Look, mark, I'll level with you, you're not a great driver and you really shouldn't be behind the wheel if you aren't going to show faster traffic a bit of respect and pull immediately over. You should sell the car and stick to the bicycle as that seems to be just within your ability.

thats a bit silly now. dont get too upset there. i wasnt sayin ye couldnt cycle in the middle of the road the odd time when ye need to, i was just sayin sometimes its nice to just pull in a little and leave people off.

seamus

markcroninbsc wrote: »

i hope you meet some oncoming traffic sometime while cycling in the middle of the road.

I do, all the time. Of course since the majority of people are sane enough to drive at a speed which allows them to stop in a distance which they can see to be clear, it's rarely an issue. If a car comes flying through a narrow country lane, then I'm a pancake regardless of where I'm positioned on the road.

Most of the time of course, there's ample room for the oncoming vehicle to pass by without incident.

Lumen

markcroninbsc wrote: »

thats a bit of a silly statement. and its just what im talking about. maybe its just a dublin thing but thers a lot of eejits on bikes these days. i blame the bike to work scheme. why not just show some manners and keep in off the road when its safe to do so? if your on a coad with no parked cars and no side roads comin up why would you need to cycle in the middle of the road? just to be ignorant?

You're still not any closer to demonstrating any competence to drive.

markcroninbsc

seamus wrote: »

I do, all the time. Of course since the majority of people are sane enough to drive at a speed which allows them to stop in a distance which they can see to be clear, it's rarely an issue. If a car comes flying through a narrow country lane, then I'm a pancake regardless of where I'm positioned on the road.

Most of the time of course, there's ample room for the oncoming vehicle to pass by without incident.

seamus, in fairness you said, if your on a country road and theres no visible ovstructions the right place to cycle is on the white line in the middle of the road. Honestly id say that enough input from you. :P

markcroninbsc

Lumen wrote: »

You're still not any closer to demonstrating any competence to drive.

cycling in the middle of the road doesnt really show competence to cycle, and this is a cycling forum after all. I've got a full irish drivers licence and no penalty points, id say im a fairly competent driver to be honest.

Idleater

markcroninbsc wrote: »

thats a bit silly now. dont get too upset there. i wasnt sayin ye couldnt cycle in the middle of the road the odd time when ye need to, i was just sayin sometimes its nice to just pull in a little and leave people off.

Why don't you let other vehicles past you when they think it's safe but you don't?
Why do you think that your decision on when it's safe to pull over and let them by is sufficient?
They obviously know more than you so why wait?

If you think this is silly, then please, do tell me why you don't think it's silly when you want a bicycle to pull over.

seamus

markcroninbsc wrote: »

seamus, in fairness you said, if your on a country road and theres no visible ovstructions the right place to cycle is on the white line in the middle of the road. Honestly id say that enough input from you. :P

No I didn't. I said nothing about obstructions or white lines.

I'd get your eyes checked.

If you're on a road where there's only room for one vehicle anyway (this), then the correct place to cycle is in the centre of the road.

monument

The Department of Transport says that cyclists should:

"Cycle WELL AWAY from the KERB and from PARKED CARS."

And you should:

"Make yourself VISIBLE by your choice of clothing and by your road position"

Source.

markcroninbsc

Idleater wrote: »

Why don't you let other vehicles past you when they think it's safe but you don't?
Why do you think that your decision on when it's safe to pull over and let them by is sufficient?
They obviously know more than you so why wait?

If you think this is silly, then please, do tell me why you don't think it's silly when you want a bicycle to pull over.

ammmmmm i think you need to scroll back and read my comment again. i said i always try to leave the people on motorbikes past because they overtake in stupid places even if you dont pull over... so i do pull over.

markcroninbsc

seamus wrote: »

No I didn't. I said nothing about obstructions or white lines.

I'd get your eyes checked.

If you're on a road where there's only room for one vehicle anyway (this), then the correct place to cycle is in the centre of the road.

that road is an ideal candidate for my argument that about 1-2 foot from the side is the right place to be!! the middle of that road would get you killed if you had a boy racer comin the other direction

Idleater

markcroninbsc wrote: »

thats a bit silly now. dont get too upset there. i wasnt sayin ye couldnt cycle in the middle of the road the odd time when ye need to, i was just sayin sometimes its nice to just pull in a little and leave people off.

markcroninbsc wrote: »

ammmmmm i think you need to scroll back and read my comment again. i said i always try to leave the people on motorbikes past because they overtake in stupid places even if you dont pull over... so i do pull over.

You said that you pull in when you deem it safe, which is nice of you, so I merely asked why you think that the cyclist isn't applying the same logic.

seamus

markcroninbsc wrote: »

that road is an ideal candidate for my argument that about 1-2 foot from the side is the right place to be!! the middle of that road would get you killed if you had a boy racer comin the other direction

If a boy racer came flying down that road without stopping, it wouldn't matter where I was on the road.

Tell me, seeing as cars manage to get around these roads without constantly banging into eachother, why is it suddenly different when one of the vehicles is a cyclist?

If a cyclist in the middle of the road at 20km/h isn't safe, then surely a car taking up the entire road at 40km/h is an accident waiting to happen?

markcroninbsc

Idleater wrote: »

You said that you pull in when you deem it safe, which is nice of you, so I merely asked why you think that the cyclist isn't applying the same logic.

sorry i shouldnt really have to do this but here you go


i always try to give the lads on motor bikes a bit of room. them lads are all ****in eejits and will try pass you when its not safe (even if you command the lane) so i always find its safest to pull in a little and leave them off.

thats what i said, maybe its my country accent but i take that to mean that i always pull in when i see a fella on a motorbike behind me buckin to get past.

the highlighted things you had in your post there that i said were more of a minimum that cyclists should do just to be a bit more mannerly on the road.

DCU lad

markcroninbsc wrote: »

that road is an ideal candidate for my argument that about 1-2 foot from the side is the right place to be!! the middle of that road would get you killed if you had a boy racer comin the other direction

go play in traffic

preferably about 1-2 foot from the side of the road,

near junctions , with lots of potholes , manholes, shores, opening car doors, jaywalking pedestrians, artics, busses and taxi drivers tuning left on top of you.

let us know how you get on

funkyjebus

markcroninbsc wrote: »

well that was the polite option. the right option would be to run the muppet over

A smiley face doesn't make this a funny or less ridicules statement.

Your comments are laughable in their ignorance (in the real meaning of the word and not that way you used it) towards the law and the rules that govern our roads. Do you have any compassion / tolerance for other road users, and in particular for their right to ensure their own safety?

First off, its you an not anyone else who brought of this 1.5m figure, at least try follow what you say, eh? Now you go on to say its ok for someone to cycle at this distance if there are obstructions ahead. What about when its dark/ on a bend, foggy, raining(as potholes fill in) and all obstacles are not so apparent until close, do you really think it unreasonable for a person to afford them selves a small bit of contingency space? If so, you're a bad human being, end of.

On winding country road, I would in fact pull out further into the road for two reasons: (note that all reasons are for my safety - and not because I'm an 'eejit' or being 'ignorant' as you might call it)
1. So that the car behind me cannot come up too quick behind me on a left bend and not know im there (especially if a right bend preceded)
2. So that a car behind will not pass me until its safe as I can hear oncoming traffic. It always amazes me the amount of motorist who will overtake on a sharp bend even with oncoming traffic and going over the continuous white line. What if the oncoming vehicle is also doing the same??

But the major point which you seem to forget here is - a cyclist is another vehicle under the RTA and when you overtake one you should act as if it was a car. You wouldn't ( I hope - but hold none) overtake a car on a sharp bend with a continuous white line with an oncoming vehicle would you? So why a person who if it goes wrong you are likely to kill, so why do you do it? Are the seconds so valuable that you are will to trade off all of someone else life.

You, in every post you have made have (beatifully - I would say) demonstarted youer in ability to observe the most basic of road rules and cop on - so if any one should 'stay in off the ****** road' my vote is for you.