good walk for a dog off the lead

plasteritup

hi all,
am just wondering do any of u no a nice walk where i can let the dog of the lead,preferably down past ballincollig direction,cause will be going for a bite to eat down that way nyway. nice woods or beach r something like that.cheers.

Head out the fields across the road from the anglers rest. Bit muddy though with the recent weather.

corkcomp

or farran woods but thats a bit further out. no beaches near ballincollig AFAIK:D

MissRetro

Ballincollig Regional Park..
http://ballincollig.wordpress.com/regional-park/ (for directions)
I've brought my dog out here a few times, nice walk and it is fairly quiet in the evenings.

Owen

corkcomp wrote: »

or farran woods but thats a bit further out. no beaches near ballincollig AFAIK:D

Farran Woods is very anti-dogs off leashes, there's signs everywhere about it. If you get down by the water's edge though, and your dog likes swimming no one seems to mind around there.

fulhamfanincork

Don't bring your dog to the beach please. ****ing hate that.

plasteritup

thanking you all for the replies,was thinking farran woods myself havnt been down there in years,she loves a good swim,so will head there id say,might try the anglers for some grub too.:)

plasteritup

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Don't bring your dog to the beach please. ****ing hate that.

why so?

A Country Voice

Isn't it Illegal to have your dog off its leash in a public area?

As far as I'm aware, the dog must be under the "effective control" of the owner.

A Country Voice

plasteritup

ok,im not getting into the legality of walking my dog off the lead at ten past twelve at night,
my thread asked a question about where i could go for a nice walk,please dont hijack my thread with questions on legality of walking her on or off the lead.
feel free to start ur own thread on that if u wish.

A Country Voice

plasteritup wrote: »

ok,im not getting into the legality of walking my dog off the lead at ten past twelve at night,
my thread asked a question about where i could go for a nice walk,please dont hijack my thread with questions on legality of walking her on or off the lead.
feel free to start ur own thread on that if u wish.

Its a quarter to two in the afternoon now if that suits better

Your thread asked a question about going for a walk and possibly carrying out an illegal activity, didn't it?

I'm just reminding you that its illegal as far as I'm aware to walk a dog that is not under your "effective control" ie. on a lead/leash.

A country voice

Stark

A Country Voice wrote: »

I'm just reminding you that its illegal as far as I'm aware to walk a dog that is not under your "effective control" ie. on a lead/leash.

Nope. Only restricted breeds have to be on a leash. "Effective control" means that the dog will obey your commands to "sit", "heel" etc.

run_Forrest_run

A Country Voice wrote: »

Its a quarter to two in the afternoon now if that suits better

Your thread asked a question about going for a walk and possibly carrying out an illegal activity, didn't it?

I'm just reminding you that its illegal as far as I'm aware to walk a dog that is not under your "effective control" ie. on a lead/leash.

A country voice

I also think you should consider the law here. Now I'm not sure if it is strictly against the law to have a dog off a lead in public HOWEVER there are rules to be followed on certain walkways etc. and please respect those.

Remember, the walks are also used by children and other walkers (both with and without dogs).

..oh and I presume you're carrying a dog litter bag too...just checking , it's a problem on the rise near where we live. The walkway by the river has dog shít all over it, hard to keep kids aware of it!

evilivor

A Country Voice wrote: »

Its a quarter to two in the afternoon now if that suits better

Your thread asked a question about going for a walk and possibly carrying out an illegal activity, didn't it?

I'm just reminding you that its illegal as far as I'm aware to walk a dog that is not under your "effective control" ie. on a lead/leash.

A country voice

I don't know about out and about in general but for beaches in County Cork:

Between the hours of 12pm and 6pm persons in charge of a dog on a beach are required to keep such dog on a leash.

www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/734365272.pdf

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

You're wrong. Only restricted breeds have to be on a leash. "Effective control" means that the dog will obey your commands to "sit", "heel" etc.

while this is true it's also a bit laughable. I was walking with my two children last weekend when two dogs came running straight for us & barking . They were nice dogs in fairness and I knew they weren't coming to cause any harm or anything but my 5 year old and 2 year old had a terrible fright, I calmed them down but funnily enough the dogs were not paying any attention to their owner as she lazily tried to call them back.

Stark

Those dogs aren't under effective control though. The law is the way it is so that responsible dog owners who are able to keep their dogs under control without a leash aren't punished.

run_Forrest_run

plasteritup wrote: »

ok,im not getting into the legality of walking my dog off the lead at ten past twelve at night,
my thread asked a question about where i could go for a nice walk,please dont hijack my thread with questions on legality of walking her on or off the lead.
feel free to start ur own thread on that if u wish.

very inconsiderate response. Nobody is hijacking 'your' thread, merely pointing out some rules that should be respected...no matter what time of day you have.

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

Those dogs aren't under effective control though. The law is the way it is so that responsible dog owners who are able to keep their dogs under control without a leash aren't punished.

well the way I see it is no dog owners are punished. Those who have total disregard for the rules are getting away with it because the rules are not being enforced and the law abiding people end up suffering.

Stark

Who did you report the incident to?

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

Who did you report the incident to?

in this particular case I didn't report it, you know why? Based on previous experiences I know what will be done, the owner and dogs were gone so what can be done? What can a warden do in this case? The answer: Nothing.

It's a pity that some people just can't be responsible for their dogs, then we wouldn't have to be reporting all the time!
There are lots of responsible owners out there and it's great, but as usual...it's the minority...

Out of interest how many dog wardens are there in the city? Not many I presume, and now money is so scarce I feel it's a problem that is only going to get worse.

evilivor

I think the biggest problem with dog owners who let their dogs out in public off-leash is that though they may know their dog is totally harmless and the most loving and lovable creature on the earth, the other people in the vicinity do not - and there are a lot of people who are terrified of dogs. Not the mention the danger the dogs pose to joggers, cyclists etc - I've lost count of the times I have nearly been killed because of or nearly killed a dog while cycling and the owners snarl like it's your fault!

Realtine

thread has totally veered off topic. hate that.

Stark

evilivor wrote:

I think the biggest problem with dog owners who let their dogs out in public off-leash is that though they may know their dog is totally harmless and the most loving and lovable creature on the earth, the other people in the vicinity do not - and there are a lot of people who are terrified of dogs. Not the mention the danger the dogs pose to joggers, cyclists etc

To be fair, there are a lot of people who hate children as well but you don't expect parents to not bring their kids outside. It's unreasonable to expect people not to bring their dogs out just because a minority of people have a bee in their bonnet about them. It's very rare that I've had issue with dogs and I run and cycle every day.

run_Forrest_run

Realtine wrote: »

thread has totally veered off topic. hate that.

so it has!

H8GHOTI

Stark wrote: »

"Effective control" means that the dog will obey your commands to "sit", "heel" etc.

Most dogs don't obey commands, so for them to be under effective control they should be on a lead.

Stark

H8GHOTI wrote: »

Most dogs don't obey commands, so for them to be under effective control they should be on a lead.

What evidence do you have to back that up? Not that your opinion is legally binding. It was claimed that the OP was acting illegally by wanting to let his/her dog off its lead. That's not true.

I was doing an intervals session the other day and someone was playing fetch with their dog without a lead. Any time I was coming through on a fast interval, she'd tell the dog to sit still and the dog did so and I was happy and she was happy. I wish I could say doing intervals was as easy with walkers around.

Then I went home and told the dog warden that I wet myself with fear when I saw the dog, just to be a **** about it

H8GHOTI

Stark wrote: »

To be fair, there are a lot of people who hate children as well but you don't expect parents to not bring their kids outside. It's unreasonable to expect people not to bring their dogs out just because a minority of people have a bee in their bonnet about them. It's very rare that I've had issue with dogs and I run and cycle every day.

One of the most stupid posts I've ever read on here.

Stark wrote: »

What evidence do you have to back that up?

Personal experience.

Stark

H8GHOTI wrote: »

One of the most stupid posts I've ever read on here

And one of the most ignorant replies I've seen

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

To be fair, there are a lot of people who hate children as well but you don't expect parents to not bring their kids outside. It's unreasonable to expect people not to bring their dogs out just because a minority of people have a bee in their bonnet about them. It's very rare that I've had issue with dogs and I run and cycle every day.

seriously what a dumb comment. So many things wrong with your post,
1. Kids are humans
2. I don't let my child shít on the footpath.

It's a pity so many dog owners tend to see dogs as child replacements.

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

Then I went home and told the dog warden that I wet myself with fear when I saw the dog, just to be a **** about it

no need for smart comments. A 5 year old and a 2 year old see two dogs barking like crazy and running towards them...what do you expect?

No kids yourself no? perhaps some day when you grow up eh..

Stark

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

Stark wrote: »

To be fair, there are a lot of people who hate children as well but you don't expect parents to not bring their kids outside. It's unreasonable to expect people not to bring their dogs out just because a minority of people have a bee in their bonnet about them. It's very rare that I've had issue with dogs and I run and cycle every day.

seriously what a dumb comment. So many things wrong with your post,
1. Kids are humans
2. I don't let my child shít on the footpath.

It's a pity so many dog owners tend to see dogs as child replacements.

Cynophobia is just one of hundreds of documented phobias. should every phobia be pandered to by making the offending article illegal?

I never disputed that someone shouldn't be prosecuted for not cleaning up after their dog.

People have a right to own dogs. Dogs need to be walked. Just because you hate dogs doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed walk them in your prescence. The op asked about walking his or her dog late at night. It's unlikely you'll have your kids out that late. A thread decrying his/her actions as illegal is uncalled for.

Stark

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

no need for smart comments. A 5 year old and a 2 year old see two dogs barking like crazy and running towards them...what do you expect?

No kids yourself no? perhaps some day when you grow up eh..

Seriously? I won't discuss my personal circumstances here.

I can understand small children being intimidated by big dogs. I was referring to adults with dog phobias wanting dogs kept away from them. like with all phobias, there's a certain obligation to address the phobia itself rather than legislating every problem away. As long as the owner calls a dog back promptly, there shouldn't be abn issue.

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

Cynophobia is just one of hundreds of documented phobias. should every phobia be pandered to by making the offending article illegal?

I never disputed that someone shouldn't be prosecuted for not cleaning up after their dog.

People have a right to own dogs. Dogs need to be walked. Just because you hate dogs doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed walk them in your prescence. The op asked about walking his or her dog late at night. It's unlikely you'll have your kids out that late. A thread decrying his/her actions as illegal is uncalled for.

When did I say I hated dogs? When did I say I had an abnormal fear of dogs? Get your facts right if you want to engage in debate.

I never said the OP's actions were illegal, I just pointed the OP in the direction of the rules which help maintain a safe environment for all.

I'm not really sure of your input however.

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

Seriously? I won't discuss my personal circumstances here.

I can understand small children being intimidated by big dogs. I was referring to adults with dog phobias wanting dogs kept away from them. like with all phobias, there's a certain obligation to address the phobia itself rather than legislating every problem away. As long as the owner calls a dog back promptly, there shouldn't be abn issue.

You won't discuss your personal circumstances but are willing to make dumb remarks based on other people's open and frank posts? How bravado you are!

Why did you make a stupid comment about reporting the dog out of fear of just seeing it? No one ever said anything of the sort?
Also why are you using the term Cynophobia? Is this just another case of raising an objection to something and all of a sudden the objector is a hater of the subject...a-la-Ali-G??

OP I hope you find somewhere to walk the dog and everyone lives happily ever after.

Stark

If you read the post I actually quoted and that you thanked, someone brought up the issue that there could be people in the vicinity of the dog who are terrified of dogs. I think that's irrelevant, a person has the right to have their dog in the vicinity regardless of someone's phobia. If the dog is under effective control like the law says, then the dog isn't going to be chasing after those people. We don't need additional legislation that panders to people's fear of even being near a dog. I don't even think stories of irresponsible dog owners should have been brought into the thread. If someone posts a thread looking for nice places to go cycling to pick one example, you don't go bringing anecdotes of people hit by cyclists breaking red lights etc., you give the OP the benefit of the doubt that they're one of the majority of responsible people. The OP wasn't being inconsiderate when asking for that small bit of respect.

run_Forrest_run wrote:

Also why are you using the term Cynophobia? Is this just another case of raising an objection to something and all of a sudden the objector is a hater of the subject...a-la-Ali-G??

Cynophobia means a fear of dogs.

run_Forrest_run

Stark wrote: »

Cynophobia means a fear of dogs.

I know that, actually it's defined as an abnormal fear of dogs...which you would have known if you read my posts above.

Still no need to indicate anyone here suffers from it, you're jumping to conclusions just because you don't agree with the opinions of others on this topic.

Stark

Do I really need to quote the post I was replying to again?

I think the biggest problem with dog owners who let their dogs out in public off-leash is that though they may know their dog is totally harmless and the most loving and lovable creature on the earth, the other people in the vicinity do not - and there are a lot of people who are terrified of dogs. Not the mention the danger the dogs pose to joggers, cyclists etc - I've lost count of the times I have nearly been killed because of or nearly killed a dog while cycling and the owners snarl like it's your fault!

The bit about being terrified of dogs regardless of well behaved they are is cynophobia. In response to the second point, I also run and cycle regularly through parks and along narrow paths frequented by dog walkers with dogs both on leashes and without. I've had the occasional small dog try to go under my ankles (and to be fair, it's usually the leashed ones who are the worst for this) but the vast majority I've passed without incident. It's only a small inconvenience for to slow down a little when I pass someone with a dog and I think it makes life more pleasant for everyone including myself to just let them enjoy their walk. (as long as they clean up any poo etc.). To say that they pose a danger to me is really overstating things.

gimmick

I saw the title of this thread and knew immediately it would be a complete train wreck.

If your dog is well behaved and well trained, most public ammenitites are great, like the Lee Fields or The Lough. Currabinny Woods is great as well though your pooch will destroy himself in mud and stuff, so your car may take a battering when ye are done.

A Country Voice

God this turned into a right debate

I've nothing against dogs. I quite like them.
The laws are there though. We all have to abide by the law of the land.
Once people abide by the law of the land they are free to enjoy themselves as they wish. I do hope everyone enjoys walking their dogs reponsibly, taking the following into account...................

Litter Pollution Act, 1997
Dog related offence.
22.—(1) Where faeces has been deposited by a dog in any place to which this subsection applies, the person in charge of the dog shall immediately remove the faeces and shall ensure that it is properly disposed of in a suitable sanitary manner.

(2) Subsection (1) applies to a place that is—

(a) a public road,

(b) land forming part of a retail shopping centre,

(c) a school ground, sports ground, playing field or recreational or leisure area,

(d) a beach,

(e) the curtilage of a dwelling the occupier of which has not consented to the presence of the dog in the curtilage, or

(f) such other place as may be prescribed.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of—

(a) a guide dog kept and used for the guidance of a blind person,

(b) a working dog being used—

(i) for the herding of livestock, or

(ii) by a member of the Garda Síochána or the Customs and Excise service in connection with the official functions of the member, or

(c) a dog in such other circumstances as may be prescribed.

(4) A person who contravenes subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence.


AND..............................


CONTROL OF DOGS REGULATIONS, 1998

Leashing and Muzzling
5. (1) This article shall apply to every:—

(a) American Pit Bull Terrier,

(b) Bull Mastiff,

(c) Doberman Pinscher,

(d) English Bull Terrier,

(e) German Shepherd (Alsatian),

(f) Japanese Akita,

(g) Japanese Tosa,

(h) Rhodesian Ridgeback,

(i) Rottweiler,

(j) Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and

to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog), and to every other strain or cross of every breed or type of dog described in this article.

2) A person shall not permit a dog to which this article applies to be in a public place unless such dog is:—

(i) securely muzzled; and

(ii) being led by a sufficiently strong chain or leash, not exceeding two metres in length, by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the said dog.

Identification of ownership of Dogs
6. (1) The owner or other person in charge of a dog shall ensure that such dog shall at all times wear a collar bearing the name and address of the owner inscribed thereon, or on a plate, badge or disc attached thereto.

(2) No person shall in any manner alter, deface, mutilate or render illegible the particulars prescribed under sub-article (1) to be inscribed on a collar to be worn by a dog, or on a plate, badge or disc to be attached thereto, nor shall any person allow a dog to wear a collar, or a plate, badge or disc attached thereto, which has been altered, defaced, mutilated or rendered illegible as aforesaid or upon which the particulars have become illegible.

(3) A breach of any provision of this article shall be an offence to which section 28(1) of the Act applies.

AND...............

Control of Dogs Act, 1986

9.—(1) The owner or any other person in charge of a dog shall not permit the dog to be in any place other than—

(a) the premises of the owner, or

(b) the premises of such other person in charge of the dog, or

(c) the premises of any other person, with the consent of that person,

unless such owner or such other person in charge of the dog accompanies it and keeps it under effectual control.

(2) If a dog worries livestock, the owner or any other person in charge of the dog shall be guilty of an offence unless it is established that at the material time the dog worried the livestock for the purpose of removing trespassing livestock and that having regard to all the circumstances the action was reasonable and necessary.

(3) A person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (2) of this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month, or, at the discretion of the court, to both such fine and such imprisonment.


AND................

27.—(1) Any person who keeps a dog without a licence contrary to section 2 of this Act shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £100 in respect of each such dog kept by such person.


ANYWAY.....................:D

To summarise OP, If you have a dog, and have a license, and the dog is not on the restricted breeds list above, (if it is on the list you need the dog to be muzzled and on a sub 2 metre leash), and you have the dog under effectual control, (which I would contend should mean on a leash, but thats only my opinion), and it has a collar with a suitable identification tag on it, and you make sure to clean up after it , and don't go unleashed where local authorities have told you not to and have legislated against in local bye laws, then after all that take a stroll wherever is left.

This is not an interpretation of Irish Law, and is only the opinion of A Country Voice.

If you need a proper legal opinion consult a qualified solicitor.

A Country Voice

Owen

Why are you signing your posts? We can see your username ...

plasteritup

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

very inconsiderate response. Nobody is hijacking 'your' thread, merely pointing out some rules that should be respected...no matter what time of day you have.

look lads feel i should say something as i started the thread,had a lovely walk today,my own area instead,dog behaved as she always does,picked up her crap as i always do,she was of the lead and i broke the law because it was 2.30 and we were on the beach and she was off the lead,ah well theres always confession on sunday.:D;);)

plasteritup

Owen wrote: »

Why are you signing your posts? We can see your username ...

plasteritup!!:D

Owen

Threads like this make baby jebus cry. You'd swear there were children being mauled by dogs all over Cork, and that you couldn't walk outside the door without stepping in dog crap.

I walk my dog off the leash every single day. She's a nervous wreck because someone else beat her for the first couple of years of her life. She stays right next to me except when I'm playing ball with her. We go to a park, where everyone else also has their dog off the leash, and everyone gets on great. It's a very social thing to do, and one of the few things in life you can still enjoy doing without spending money.

We're turning into another England (And nothing against English people, but a lot against the English way of life) - where everything is legislated against, and life is no longer fun. Every car is going to kill someone, everyone's a pedo, and every animal's going to bite your face off.

OP, Currabinny's a great suggestion. My little girl loves the forest there. Take the smaller paths through the forest and no one else will be on them except you and your dog.

A Country Voice

I dunno why I sign my posts really, I just got into the habit of it.

Is it annoying or something?

Look lads a bit of common sense is all thats called for. There's laws there and they shouldnt be broken.
If we all decided which laws we'd not have a bother breaking then thats when anarchy begins.

The "ah sure shep wouldnt harm a fly" approach just doesnt cut it.
The kids that shep is barking at or running towards dont know that.
If everybody kept their dogs on a leash then the problem wouldnt exist.

I'd say the beach wasnt too packed at 2:30pm today, but still, thats breaking the law.

I suppose its a 1 in a 1,000,000 that there would be a dog warden on the beach right at the only time you ever walked the dog there un-leashed.

Imagine admitting to illegal activity to the nation on boards though :eek:

Anyway, I put the National law up there for all to see. I dont have the local bye laws.
That takes some of the uncertainty out of the debate. The only realy variable now is what does "effectual control" mean.

A Country Voice

Owen

A Country Voice wrote: »

I dunno why I sign my posts really, I just got into the habit of it.

Is it annoying or something?

Yes it is. It's like you're writing a letter. This is a forum - we can all see your username.

A Country Voice wrote: »

The "ah sure shep wouldnt harm a fly" approach just doesnt cut it.
The kids that shep is barking at or running towards dont know that.

Then the parents should do a good job and educate their children that dogs are fantastic. Did your parents hide you from everything as a child like parents do today? I remember being frightened by a dog as a kid, and then my Mother getting down on her knees, stroking the dog, and telling me how nice the dog was. Fear was gone, and I learned to love dogs. It stuns me how much kids are insulated from life these days.

A Country Voice wrote: »

If everybody kept their dogs on a leash then the problem wouldnt exist.

Now I just think you're either trolling, or you have an incredibly simplistic view of the world.

A Country Voice wrote: »

A Country Voice

:rolleyes:

A Country Voice

god tis easy annoy you

Anyway
I think, and I dont feel this view is simplistic! that if you want to let your dog off its leash then you should make sure that it cant cause anyone any harm. Do it in a controlled space without the public or more importantly kids around.


I think that in public areas eg streets, parks, beaches, sports fields, etc dogs should be on a leash.
Maybe your dog is perfectly behaved, he or she probably is, but the government have to legislate to deal with the people who dont bother training their dogs and keeping them under "effectual control"


Most importantly people should obey the law, whether national or local bye laws. Thats not an English view by the way, thats a view of somone who believes in law and order. Without law and order we're sunk.

A County Voice

plasteritup

A Country Voice wrote: »

god tis easy annoy you

Anyway
I think, and I dont feel this view is simplistic! that if you want to let your dog off its leash then you should make sure that it cant cause anyone any harm. Do it in a controlled space without the public or more importantly kids around.


I think that in public areas eg streets, parks, beaches, sports fields, etc dogs should be on a leash.
Maybe your dog is perfectly behaved, he or she probably is, but the government have to legislate to deal with the people who dont bother training their dogs and keeping them under "effectual control"


Most importantly people should obey the law, whether national or local bye laws. Thats not an English view by the way, thats a view of somone who believes in law and order. Without law and order we're sunk.

A County Voice

so,have you any suggestions as to a good walk for my dog off the lead,if i remember correctly that is the title of the thread!!

PLASTERITUP!!

H8GHOTI

Owen wrote: »

Then the parents should do a good job and educate their children that dogs are fantastic. Did your parents hide you from everything as a child like parents do today? I remember being frightened by a dog as a kid, and then my Mother getting down on her knees, stroking the dog, and telling me how nice the dog was. Fear was gone, and I learned to love dogs. It stuns me how much kids are insulated from life these days.

Why were you afraid of the dog? It sounds like it was a nice friendly dog & you had no reason to be afraid. Then your mother telling you how nice it was easy enough.
How about if a dog is non stop barking & growling? If it looks like it's going to attack a child? What if a dog bites a child? Do you still think dogs are fantastic then?

H8GHOTI

Owen

H8GHOTI wrote: »

How about if a dog is non stop barking & growling? If it looks like it's going to attack a child? What if a dog bites a child? Do you still think dogs are fantastic then?

Absolutely. Dogs rock. Dogs rarely bite children. Very rarely. I can't rememeber the last time in Ireland we'd a case of it*. You're exaggerating a problem which is miniscule.

Besides, if a child young enough to be afraid of a dog, and is put in a situation where it's afraid, or there's potential harm - that's a parenting issue. A parent shouldn't allow a child small enough to have that fear to be on it's own around any animal. Budgie, or Dog.

[EDIT] * I could well be wrong - I hardly ever listen to the news. But even if there was one case in 5 years, it's hardly grounds to go demanding every dog be kept on a lead everywhere except in privately owned fields.

Owen

Just out of curiosity - those who have issues with dog's potentially mauling children off the leads - how many of you have been in parks, and seen dangerous uncontrollable dogs off the lead?

Mostly when I walk, it's collies, slobbery labradors, bichon frise's, king charles, jack russells. Hardly the ones that make the news.

I think there's a whole load of sensationalism going on here, and an awful lot of 'won't someone think of the children' being used as some sort of moral stick to beat people over the head about a problem which really doesn't exist.

Stark

H8GHOTI wrote: »

How about if a dog is non stop barking & growling? If it looks like it's going to attack a child? What if a dog bites a child? Do you still think dogs are fantastic then?

H8GHOTI

Such a dog would be put down. You're trying to derail the discussion with a strawman. No one is advocating that dangerous dogs should be let loose around children or adults for that matter.