Remembering Seve

splashthecash

Hi all,

I'm only a casual fan of golf but I've been hearing remarkable comments towards the passing earlier this year of "Seve"...

Can someone tell me WHY this man is so well remembered? He is not up there in terms of major wins, etc so what was it about him that made him so great?

Thanks!

Dr.Silly

splashthecash wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm only a casual fan of golf but I've been hearing remarkable comments towards the passing earlier this year of "Seve"...

Can someone tell me WHY this man is so well remembered? He is not up there in terms of major wins, etc so what was it about him that made him so great?

Thanks!

Apart from his golf game, spectacular short game (just youtube it), he was one of the games favourites cause of his character. and personality. A true gent on and off the course

I love this video from the ryder cup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9gXnqUCKOI

chalkie 501

splashthecash wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm only a casual fan of golf but I've been hearing remarkable comments towards the passing earlier this year of "Seve"...

Can someone tell me WHY this man is so well remembered? He is not up there in terms of major wins, etc so what was it about him that made him so great?

Thanks!

i can only presume this is a joke

splashthecash

chalkie 501 wrote: »

i can only presume this is a joke

No joke Chalkie - just someone curious.

chalkie 501

well 91 official tournament wins worldwide including 5 major wins,
a brilliant ryder cup record,6 order of merit titles.
apart from those and numerous other achievements he was probably the most exciting player of all time,he played golf with a flair and a passion that cannot be taught and we will never see the likes of Seve again.
one of my favourite sporting moments was seeing Seve and Faldo embracing and in floods of tears at the 1995 ryder cup. a legend

L.O.F.T

splashthecash wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm only a casual fan of golf but I've been hearing remarkable comments towards the passing earlier this year of "Seve"...

Can someone tell me WHY this man is so well remembered? He is not up there in terms of major wins, etc so what was it about him that made him so great?

Thanks!

splashthecash

L.O.F.T wrote: »

Well L.O.F.T, unfortunately I expected a few smart answers...heres me thinking that fellow boards.ie members might want to give their OPINIONS on why he is remembered as he is. I think you would find that a lot of questions asked on this forum could be answered with the same sarcastic graphic that you used above.

Funnily enough, you probably would've been able to give a quick straight answer to my question faster than what it took you to find a suitable image and upload that as a reply....although going by how you respond to an honest query such as mine, you probably have that image saved directly to your desktop looking for threads to use it in.

To everyone else, thanks for the replies....I'll check out that ryder cup clip.

foxyboxer

In fairness Seve spent about as much time in the trees and rough as any of us, but he had a peculiar form of genius where it didn't matter where he'd hit it, he had the ability to conjure up a miraculous par which endeared him to mere mortals.

He had the good looks of a matinee idol, a charismatic personality and I think people also like the fact that he wasn't a Yes man and had numerous run in's with the game's authorities.

But when I think of Seve only one word springs to mind: Passion.
He simply loved the game of golf.

k.p.h

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joliLViLo2A

Opics

He had a better career than Phil Mickelson.....and was probably more popular worldwide. Would you be asking why is Phil considered "great" if he past away due to a terrible illness in 10 or so years time?

L.O.F.T

splashthecash wrote: »

heres me thinking that fellow boards.ie members might want to give their OPINIONS on why he is remembered as he is

You didn't ask for people's opinions in your first post.
You asked:

splashthecash wrote: »

Can someone tell me WHY this man is so well remembered?

splashthecash wrote: »

you probably have that image saved directly to your desktop looking for threads to use it in

I dont have the above image in my first post saved on my desktop, but it was as easy to find as the information about Seve is.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056261033

Osgoodisgood

Jeebers OP you're on the receiving end of some attitude!
Sorry about that!

Seve was the most exciting player since Arnold Palmer. He was a fearless and sometime eratic golfer who wore his heart on his sleeve. The fact that he was such a force behind European success in the Ryder Cup just raised his public profile that bit higher.

He was my hero when I was a kid, as he was for many people here.

Deco1983

OP's question seems fair. Playing golf growing up I always understood that he was one of the greats but never knew the full extent of his story until a couple of years ago. The recent BBC doc is pretty high level but is worth tracking down for some great tales and footage

Deco1983

OP - you might find some extra bits and pieces here from a few weeks back

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73228394

Deco1983

OP - you might find some extra bits and pieces here from a few weeks back

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73228394

JerryHandbag

splashthecash wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm only a casual fan of golf but I've been hearing remarkable comments towards the passing earlier this year of "Seve"...

Can someone tell me WHY this man is so well remembered? He is not up there in terms of major wins, etc so what was it about him that made him so great?

Thanks!

Theres only about a dozen guys in the history of the game who've won more majors. 5 major wins for a guy who effectively stopped being a competitive force in his late 30s, I think thats pretty impressive when you consider how wild he was off the tee. And I think there lies the affection for Seve, he was never very solid with his driver, but the manner in which he played the rest of the hole from precarious situations, and still scored well - very entertaining.

FixdePitchmark

You have Seve the legend and then Seve the golfer.

He had a great short game and great recovery shots.

Would rate (IMO) mickelson ahead of him.

Omacron

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

You have Seve the legend and then Seve the golfer.

He had a great short game and great recovery shots.

Would rate (IMO) mickelson ahead of him.

You're joking right...or trolling. I think if Phil the thrill saw this he'd apologise on your behalf.

FixdePitchmark

Omacron wrote: »

You're joking right...or trolling. I think if Phil the thrill saw this he'd apologise on your behalf.

No it is my opinion. Phil has more to come (majors too) and has played in a far more competitive era of Golf.

Look - Seve was an amazing golfer - but lots of hype about car parks etc.
Ryder cup thing load of bull too. My opinion.

Omacron

Ryder cup thing a load of bull! Jesus I hope you're kidding everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter but many would consider the Ryder cup to be one of blue ribbon events in sport not just golf. Although being such a big fan of Phil as you clearly are I'm not surprised you don't value it seeing as he holds the dubious honour of having the most all time loses in the history of the American Ryder cup team. This isn't actually you Phil is it... just in case it is what the f**k is up with your driving and putting at the moment.

mr.mickels

The short answer is that the British and Irish golfing public loved Seve, while we liked other players (and disliked a great many too!!!). He was Europes answer to Arnold Palmer, but he even had a much bigger impact on the game over here than even Palmer did in USA. USA already had golfing stars such as Hogan, Snead etc and a competitive tour when Palmer arrived. The European Tour built up due mostly to Seve's efforts. And the Ryder Cup would very likely not even be on the golfing calendar today if Seve hadn't gotten involved, and it is no exaggeration to say he single-handedly turned a lame and even embarrassing golfing tournament into one of the worlds biggest sports events since 1985. The 1991 Ryder Cup was probably the most bitter, and due to some unsavoury circumstances Europe really wanted to win, Seve was struggling with his game but lead the charge and won 4.5 out of 5 that year!


Seve was number 1 on the official golf rankings for about a year or so, after 1985 when it was created, this was based on the previous "unofficial" rankings list which had Seve as number 1 in the world for at least 3 years prior. He won a truckload of tournaments in a relatively short career for a golfer, his back pain ruined his long game in his early 30's.

5 majors was a fairly big haul, but he should have won at least one more Masters, he blew it in 1986 from a good position and 3 putted in the playoff in 1987. If you look at all golfers since Seve's last major in 1988, there are only 2 other golfers on the entire planet who have won more Majors, Faldo and Woods, and I don't know how many individual tournaments have been won by Faldo or Woods, or any of todays top players, but I would hazard a guess that the only player in the top 100 in the world rankings to have won more tournaments than Seve is Tiger Woods himself.

Seve was only 19 when he was runner up in the British Open, he remains the youngest winner of the British Open in the modern era, at a time when he was competing against Watson and Nicklaus and non-European players were almost always winning. Seve was the youngest ever Masters winner, and Woods is the only other golfer to have ever won it at a younger age.

Seve was a special character who was much more than the sum of his tournament wins. He added an incalculable amount to golf in Europe, if you were watcing golf in the 1980's you would understand and would very likely have been a Seve fan too. A great golfer with a great personality and personal charm.

a nice tribute to him here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT7vmBWYEuc

Seve, the first player to take on the water at the 10th in the belfry, 1985 Ryder Cup, and he hit the middle of the green in the afternoon game, Seve lead europe to victory that year, the Ryder Cup was huge in golfing circles back than, because it was europes first time being competitive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZysiTTWey3w

Opics

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No it is my opinion. Phil has more to come (majors too) and has played in a far more competitive era of Golf.

Look - Seve was an amazing golfer - but lots of hype about car parks etc.
Ryder cup thing load of bull too. My opinion.

Seve won his 5 majors before he turned 32. Mickelson didn't win his first until he was 34.

Seve then started suffering from pretty major injuries (golfing wise). If he had Mickelsons health during his 30s then he would have approached 10 majors imo. Mickelson is lucky that his health didn't start to deteriorate until he hit 40. Seve was pretty much gone from the game due to his health at that age(last pro win aged 38).

If you back date the World Rankings, he was #1 in the world for over 200 weeks.

And don't give us the "far more competitive era" bull as there is no way of calculating that. Seve had Tom Watson, Bernard Langer, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, Ian Woosnam etc in his era.

My opinion.

Omacron

Ah dammit Opics I agree with everything you just said but I was really hoping this thread could finish with Mr. Mickels excellent post. Anyway the guy who thinks Phil is better is trolling or insane or both. I'd leave him and his opinion where Seve left most of his drives, in the rough.

Deco1983

Ahh for god sake opics!!!!:)

Brilliant from Mr Mickels - more please!!

0161allin

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No it is my opinion. Phil has more to come (majors too) and has played in a far more competitive era of Golf.

Look - Seve was an amazing golfer - but lots of hype about car parks etc.
Ryder cup thing load of bull too. My opinion.

TAXI !!!!!!

holdemfoldem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmawDlePgu0

FixdePitchmark

holdemfoldem wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmawDlePgu0

I can do that, ok I give up Seve is best :rolleyes:

Anybody who comes on here with any sort of challenging view on anything, is trolling, or an idiot, or knows nothing about golf. I think they need to open their eyes to somebody who has their own opinions . I'll listen to others and learn. Strange self empowered sheep on here.

Phil 4 Majors in 7 seasons.

Seve 5 Majors in 10 seasons.

We will see what happens.


Anybody who thinks Phil's era has not got a greater number of better golfers is not a great anaylst of sport. All sports improve with time and golf is now a global game. Just look at the number of different winners of golf majors in a ten year span from 2000. Do i need to name golfers ? I think i could name 4 from South Africa alone that would be in top ten back then.

World ranking , we will not even go into the Tiger factor , but point above and the variation in the top ten is remarkable in Phil's era of golf, Phil's position therefore when looked at, is one of the best - excluding the one and only.

Seve was a legend of his era, it was a simpler time, where sport was emerging as a glamorous escapism of the time, colour tv in every home, snooker was even glamorous. He had the looks and TV persona. This tends to make people look back in a nostalgic fashion and not the reality of the moment. Like saying, football was great in the old days.

Comparing the two was not my initiation, it just raised the question in my own mind - to be honest was not overly impressed with the best of Seve piece placed up by an earlier post. Unreal short game - more to golf than that.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges and nothing can be proved in the end.

Seve had one big thing over Phil , a drive that stemmed from his background. This competitive edge tends to come from an unpriviledged background . (tends to), but golf tends to have people from a more privileged background.

Anyway just a view, would not keep me up all night. Don't even like Phil, but what he did as a left handed player is another days work, as for that flop shot, can do that too.

Insults role , fake brave internet personas go. " I grow old , I grow old . I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

mr.mickels

Another nice tribute worth a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKnXIP3A60c

"The greatest shot I ever saw" - Jack Nicklaus remarked to Tom Watson as Seve scrambled a half on the 18th in the 1983 ryder cup in USA, this marked the beginning of the Ryder Cup as a contest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smaouo-CCRU

Seve plays shots I don't even see in my dreams -- Ben Crenshaw

"I have watched him play 1-irons out of greenside bunkers, when just fooling around.

He could get up and down out of a garbage can.

He could do anything with a golf club and a golf ball."

-- Jack Nicklaus


I played golf with Tony Jacklin once and I recall an interesting story by Tony Jacklin about that 1983 Ryder Cup when he paired Seve with a young and timid/nervous Paul Way, to cut the story short he made it very clear Seve was the centre and outstanding leader of the entire team, his passion inspired the others to raise their games not only in the Ryder Cup but in their individual careers and a few of them went on the win their own majors, Europe had been totally humiliated in 1981 without Seve on the side. Seve was the driving force of Europes efforts even though he was the same age as the others in the squad, he was a strong, mature individual with a massive will to beat the Americans. He also concentrated on building the european tour even though he was being offered much bigger money to play in USA.

One of Seve's last wins, when his long game was really just a pale shadow and he was suffering constant back pain. Of course he chips in on the final hole for birdie!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4LPLN5eU5I

If you do a search you will probably find the clip of Woods recalling his first meeting with Seve when he gave Woods a bunker lesson and then challenged him to a contest, with Woods using his SW from the bunkers and Seve using his 3-iron, and of course Seve kicked his butt! Faldo tells a similar story, Seve was known for his 3 iron trick shots from the sand, and lob shots with his 3 iron around the green, try doing that next time you're on the course. here he is doing a few, well past his prime but still has the touch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpBNRoaFduA

Faldo was too emotional to clearly express what he wanted but his genuine admiration for Seve is obvious, all the european players looked up to Seve, even champions like Faldo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ffnxnDVW0

I love this one, winning his second masters, after leaving the first chip short he plays it real cool for a young man just after winning such a huge event. I was 7 years old watching this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81iB90e1doI
In the same event, he had an elegant swing in those days with the irons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVsi6AsmcEk

If you are ever playing golf in Cork GC you will see Seve's Tree on the 11th hole which marks where his tee shot finished, a monstrous drive hit with the old wooden club and soft balata ball, he could hit it long when he really went for one back then.

mr.mickels

One of my favourite clips of Seve, perhaps some of you were there in 1985, I recall watching it as he won our own Irish Open on a beautiful summers day, while he was in his prime, he beat Langer who was worlds number 2 at the time behind Seve, with Sandy Lyle, Tom Watson and Greg Norman making up the top 5.

You can probably sense even from this short clip that Seve is a crowd favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKURwadwLE

Only one Keano

To be fair the biggest difference between Seve and Phil will be the impact Seve had on the game and his chrisma. Seve introduced the game of golf to so many in Europe and beyond who may never have played otherwise. He had a presence, an aura allied to an incredible golfing ability that made ordinary fans and also star players long to be in his company.

You can argue until you are blue in the face as to who achieved more and in what company but to put it simply there will only ever be one Seve who will be long remembered for the joy and excitement he brought to so many golf fans worldwide and Phil, regardless that he appears a nice guy, will never be able to compete with el rey on this level.

Adios amigo!

FixdePitchmark

mr.mickels wrote: »

One of my favourite clips of Seve, perhaps some of you were there in 1985, I recall watching it as he won our own Irish Open on a beautiful summers day, while he was in his prime, he beat Langer who was worlds number 2 at the time behind Seve, with Sandy Lyle, Tom Watson and Greg Norman making up the top 5.

You can probably sense even from this short clip that Seve is a crowd favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKURwadwLE

Nice,

Just reminds me how important the Irish Open once was.

What a field of players.
What a crowd of Dubs.

Lot to be said about holding it on the Dublin coast . The atmos. is unreal.

But I digress again.

It is great to think you can walk on the lines that our heroes once thread.

In the morning, the sun will rise across those very fields.

I will walk that coast and view that very sea in the morning, as the fall's darkness approaches.


Nothing like 6 pints on a Thursday.

mr.mickels

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Nice,

Just reminds me how important the Irish Open once was.

What a field of players.
What a crowd of Dubs.

Lot to be said about holding it on the Dublin coast . The atmos. is unreal.

I agree, taking geography into account I think Portmarnock is the finest venue in the country for the Irish Open. I like Killarney and there are many fine courses throughout the country, but having the event near the capital has advantages which can't be ignored, even though I am a Cork native and like to see the Open passed around the country

The Irish Open was a prestigious event on the european calender in those days.

mr.mickels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojiyPkPlsxk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc6Dnt5LkHM