Do some irish speakers exaggerate pronunciations?

paky

This has been bothering me for quite a while now. I studied irish all my life, (went to a gaelscoil and meanscoil) but im not a native speaker. However just watching grainne seoiges introduction there to the all ireland show i feel she over emphasises pronunciations to the extent where they seem exaggerated. Seems to be the case with vlathni'ige' ni chofaigh aswel. Has anyone noticed this or is it just me? Are they trying to make out that their special natives?

dlofnep

No - Different dialects have different pronounciations. You're probably just not accustomed to the natural dialects.

Birneybau

NiiiiiiiiiiiL!

AnamGlas

Different dialects, different pronounciations.

** Great minds think alike, dlofnep

stripysocks85

paky wrote: »

This has been bothering me for quite a while now. I studied irish all my life, (went to a gaelscoil and meanscoil) but im not a native speaker. However just watching grainne seoiges introduction there to the all ireland show i feel she over emphasises pronunciations to the extent where they seem exaggerated. Seems to be the case with vlathni'ige' ni chofaigh aswel. Has anyone noticed this or is it just me? Are they trying to make out that their special natives?

That sounds kinda Russian.

Saila

yes, and thats taking into account the different dialects and is bordering on a kind of snobbery

paky

yes thats the word i was searching for 'snobbery'

seems to be prevalant amongst native irish speakers

Marcia Lustley

dlofnep wrote: »

No - Different dialects have different pronounciations. You're probably just not accustomed to the natural dialects.

totally agree with this post. i'm a native speaker and thats just how we pronounce words, all throaty if that makes any sense?

even native speakers have different accents, i notice that the islanders (inis oirr) in particular have stronger irish accents and better irish alround. (i.m from south connemara)

one person's gaeltacht is another person's gwaletacht!

dlofnep

paky wrote: »

yes thats the word i was searching for 'snobbery'

seems to be prevalant amongst native irish speakers

It's not snobbery. They are not intentionally trying to sound more authentic. They are more authentic.

Raic

Marcia Lustley wrote: »

totally agree with this post. i'm a native speaker and thats just how we pronounce words, all throaty if that makes any sense?

even native speakers have different accents, i notice that the islanders (inis oirr) in particular have stronger irish accents and better irish alround. (i.m from south connemara)

one person's gaeltacht is another person's gwaletacht!

+1. The thing is that many people just don't realise that Irish has a whole host of sounds that just don't exist in English (not just "ch"!). It's a real pity that some people think that Irish spoken with English phonetics is correct and actually believe strong native speakers are "exaggerating" their pronunciations.

Dennis the Stone

Is mise Bart Simpson

dlofnep

Marcia Lustley wrote: »

totally agree with this post. i'm a native speaker and thats just how we pronounce words, all throaty if that makes any sense?

even native speakers have different accents, i notice that the islanders (inis oirr) in particular have stronger irish accents and better irish alround. (i.m from south connemara)

one person's gaeltacht is another person's gwaletacht!

The more west in Conamara you go, the more difficult it becomes for me to understand. I can chat with anyone with any gaeltacht in munster - outside of that, it gets tough.

Marcia Lustley

Raic wrote: »

+1. The thing is that many people just don't realise that Irish has a whole host of sounds that just don't exist in English (not just "ch"!). It's a real pity that some people think that Irish spoken with English phonetics is correct and actually believe strong native speakers are "exaggerating" their pronunciations.

i have an uncle who finds it hard to pronounce wasp or yacht correctly very funny!

dlofnep wrote: »

The more west in Conamara you go, the more difficult it becomes for me to understand. I can chat with anyone with any gaeltacht in munster - outside of that, it gets tough.

we talk way too fast my bad

Kidchameleon

Your came to an Irish forum to discuss something about the Irish language? Nobody here has a clue mate!

Seanchai

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your came to an Irish forum to discuss something about the Irish language? Nobody here has a clue mate!

Especially those British soccer watching types who say "mate".

Cee-Jay-Cee

Theyre probably putting the D4 twang on it for the benefit of the twats in RTE that probably wouldnt understand it otherwise.

Micilin Muc

Do some English speakers in the west exaggerate sounds, words such as a committeeeeee, or wesht? Yes. Are they snobby because they do this? Eh wha???

themadchef

Tá mo bhosca oscailte!

Oscailte and ‎uachtar reoite are my favourite Irish words

Some words ya just cant help piling on the twang.

upandcumming

Yea I hear you OP. It bugs the ****e out of me!

Jess16

OP you're criticising something you don't even understand. Which, to be honest, says more about you than the way Gráinne pronounces her cúpla focail

ShamoBuc

paky wrote: »

. Seems to be the case with vlathni'ige' ni chofaigh aswel. Has anyone noticed this or is it just me? Are they trying to make out that their special natives?

I have a love for the Irish Language - but when yer one opens her big mouth she turns me off it - she would turn anyone off speaking it ! Chk dechj ui eaocht..... SHUT THE Fúck UP - please woman.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Some of the opinions are a little silly here imo, why should people drop their accents to some sort of uniform blandness because they are appearing on television?
Variety is the spice of life and all that

Marcia Lustley

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I have a love for the Irish Language - but when yer one opens her big mouth she turns me off it - she would turn anyone off speaking it ! Chk dechj ui eaocht..... SHUT THE Fúck UP - please woman.

not saying i'm a fan of blathnaid but her accent and pronunciation is conamara mixed with meath :P

it doesn't irritate me when people who learnt irish in gaelscoileanna pronounce words different from me (notice how i didnt say wrong-i'm no snob). i'm just happy they take an interest in the language and that i can converse with them

dlofnep

Marcia Lustley wrote: »

not saying i'm a fan of blathnaid but her accent and pronunciation is conamara mixed with meath :P

it doesn't irritate me when people who learnt irish in gaelscoileanna pronounce words different from me (notice how i didnt say wrong-i'm no snob). i'm just happy they take an interest in the language and that i can converse with them

Sin an rud is tábhachtaí!

Seanchai

paky wrote: »

yes thats the word i was searching for 'snobbery'

seems to be prevalant amongst native irish speakers

It's not like native English speakers of a certain bogger Johnny-come-lately tendency would look down on native Irish speakers as being "backward" for continuing to speak Irish, is it now? Of course not. Tralee, Killarney and the wannabe English town of "Dingle" would be among the first to look down on those people in their county who continue to speak Irish. I have first hand experience of these backward people.

Your entire line of reasoning betrays a lack of knowledge of the small-minded petite bourgeoisie who dominate the towns in question and see English as advanced and Irish as backward. They are a far cry from the far more educated people in south Dublin who view Irish as a sign of advancement. The neanderthals in these towns have much more in common with your average British soccer following Dublin knacker - you know, the sort who come on Afterhours after and before watching Sky Sports.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Seanchai wrote: »

It's not like native English speakers of a certain bogger Johnny-come-lately tendency would look down on native Irish speakers as being "backward" for continuing to speak Irish, is it now? Of course not. Tralee, Killarney and the wannabe English town of "Dingle" would be among the first to look down on those people in their county who continue to speak Irish. I have first hand experience of these backward people.

Your entire line of reasoning betrays a lack of knowledge of the small-minded petite bourgeoisie who dominate the towns in question and see English as advanced and Irish as backward. They are a far cry from the far more educated people in south Dublin who view Irish as a sign of advancement. The neanderthals in these towns have much more in common with your average British soccer following Dublin knacker - you know, the sort who come on Afterhours after and before watching Sky Sports.

Seriously dude, if you were picking strawberrys you'd only find the bitter ones

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Seanchai

Madilynn Thundering Mathematician wrote: »

Seriously dude, if you were picking strawberrys you'd only find the bitter ones

Strawberries, surely?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Seanchai wrote: »

Strawberries, surely?

yep you're right

Yag reuoY

I went to the siopa by carr and bought some stampi.

Above is how I passed Leaving Cert Irish.:cool:

LOL - what a pathetic excuse for a language; no wonder it's perishing.

dlofnep

Yag reuoY wrote: »

LOL - what a pathetic excuse for a language; no wonder it's perishing.

Care to elaborate exactly what's pathetic about the language, rather than the curriculum?

ShamoBuc

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I went to the siopa by carr and bought some stampi.

Above is how I passed Leaving Cert Irish.:cool:

LOL - what a pathetic excuse for a language; no wonder it's perishing.

Hardly a pathetic use for a language fella - and it's far from perishing:D

Marcia Lustley

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I went to the siopa by carr and bought some stampi.

Above is how I passed Leaving Cert Irish.:cool:

LOL - what a pathetic excuse for a language; no wonder it's perishing.

i thanked you cause i felt sorry for you.

Seanchai

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I went to the siopa by carr and bough some stampi.

Above is how I passed Leaving Cert Irish.:cool:

LOL - what a pathetic excuse for a language; no wonder it's perishing.

I'd be surprised if you even passed English at that rate - and curiously enough, seeing as you've brought it up, the English word 'car' derives from Old Irish 'carr' - but let's not complicate your little mind too much there. :rolleyes:

Yag reuoY

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Hardly a pathetic use for a language fella - and it's far from perishing:D

The Irish forum, despite its strategic location above the highly visited after hours, isn't exactly thriving.:D

The Irish language keeps O'Leary company in the afterlife.

LighterGuy

I will always hate when people say "boooous" instead of bus.
I remember being on the bus ( :P ) one day and this woman got a call - "ah hey'ya i'm just on the boooous"
A part of me died that day.

Marcia Lustley

LighterGuy wrote: »

I will always hate when people say "boooous" instead of bus.
I remember being on the bus ( :P ) one day and this woman got a call - "ah hey'ya i'm just on the boooous"
A part of me died that day.

i wonder do they pronounce mouse the same way? just thinking out loud :P

Yag reuoY

dlofnep wrote: »

Care to elaborate exactly what's pathetic about the language, rather than the curriculum?

Firstly, if you were to speak the present form of Irish to one of your ancestors of a couple of hundred years ago, they would struggle to understand one word of your pompous babbling.

Its attempted revival is assosiated with the 'new state' and the failed efforts to create an Irish identity.

It's also a highly primitive language with no aesthetic qualities; listening to it is a painful and unpleasent experience.

My opinion: like it of leave it.

IdidIt

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Firstly, if you were to speak the present form of Irish to one of your ancestors of a couple of hundred years ago, they would struggle to understand one word of your pompous babbling.

It's attempted revival is assosiated with the 'new state' and the failed efforts to create an Irish identity.

It's also a highly primitive language with no aesthetic qualities; listening to it is a painful and unpleasent experience.

My opinion: like it of leave it.

Classic "highly primitive language".

Don't feed the trolls.

Seanchai

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Firstly, if you were to speak the present form of Irish to one of your ancestors of a couple of hundred years ago, they would struggle to understand one word of your pompous babbling.

blah blah blah

All of this is so obviously retarded. For starters, try and speak English to somebody in Shakespeare's time and see the same reaction. Yours is such an obviously stupid and myopic post you can only be trolling.

Please troll elsewhere.

Marcia Lustley

Yag reuoY wrote: »

The Irish forum, despite its strategic location above the highly visited after hours, isn't exactly thriving.:D

The Irish language keeps O'Leary company in the afterlife.

comparing the irish language to the lack of use of the tech na nGealt forum?

i think i know what your trying to say but let me put it this way. i have never posted in teach na ngealt(i've had no particular reason for it yet) but i speak irish about 80% of the day. a language thriving to me is being able to converse with all walks of life not just gaeltacht people which i can do and when your younger cousins have better irish than you do.:o

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Firstly, if you were to speak the present form of Irish to one of your ancestors of a couple of hundred years ago, they would struggle to understand one word of your pompous babbling.

It's attempted revival is assosiated with the 'new state' and the failed efforts to create an Irish identity.

It's also a highly primitive language with no aesthetic qualities; listening to it is a painful and unpleasent experience.

My opinion: like it of leave it.

I agree that a lot of the attempted revival was poor

But there are areas where there was no need for a revival as they never stopped speaking it, and it seems to be the pronunciations from these areas that the OP had a problem with

English speakers from two hundred years ago would probably also struggle to understand a lot of the modern day language, languages do evolve after all, the mainland European languages do have their roots from latin hence a lot of similar verb sounds

And as for aesthetic qualities, thats a matter of taste I suppose

Yag reuoY

Seanchai wrote: »

All of this is so obviously retarded. For starters, try and speak English to somebody in Shakespeare's time and see the same reaction. Yours is such an obviously stupid and myopic post you can only be trolling.

Please troll elsewhere.

I'm not trolling at all; I'm merely donating my opinion on the Irish language.

Is detesting a language a crime around here?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I'm not trolling at all; I'm merely donating my opinion on the Irish language.

Is detesting a language a crime around here?

Nope not a crime. But it's probably a little hard for people to grasp as to why someone would deteste a language.
Fair enough being forced to learn it or having issues with excessive funding but the language itself did not, and indeed could not, hurt you.

Yag reuoY

Marcia Lustley wrote: »

comparing the irish language to the lack of use of the tech na nGealt forum?

i think i know what your trying to say but let me put it this way. i have never posted in teach na ngealt(i've had no particular reason for it yet) but i speak irish about 80% of the day. a language thriving to me is being able to converse with all walks of life not just gaeltacht people which i can do and when your younger cousins have better irish than you do.:o

I think this does indicate the lack of interest in Irish generally among the population.

I can't think of a time I overheard anyone conducting a converstaion in Irish. Ever.

The lack of interest isn't just down to the quality of treaching, it's also very much to do with the quality of the language itself.

dlofnep

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Firstly, if you were to speak the present form of Irish to one of your ancestors of a couple of hundred years ago, they would struggle to understand one word of your pompous babbling.

Languages evolve all the time. What's your point?

Yag reuoY wrote: »

It's also a highly primitive language with no aesthetic qualities; listening to it is a painful and unpleasent experience.

A primitive language? Surely, aren't all languages primitive with the exception of Esperanto? As for having no aesthetic qualities - That's subjective. I find it to be a delightful language.

None of the above explains your original post which stated "what a pathetic excuse for a language". Your vitriol for language is absurd. Although, coming from someone who's username is 'Youre gay' - I'm not exactly expecting a compelling basis for argument from you.

Yag reuoY

Madilynn Thundering Mathematician wrote: »

Nope not a crime. But it's probably a little hard for people to grasp as to why someone would deteste a language.
Fair enough being forced to learn it or having issues with excessive funding but the language itself did not, and indeed could not, hurt you.

It hurts my ears!:D

Marcia Lustley

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I'm not trolling at all; I'm merely donating my opinion on the Irish language.

Is detesting a language a crime around here?

god no we are all entitled to our opinions. you can have yours and i'll have mine

amadán




just kidding

IdidIt

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I'm not trolling at all; I'm merely donating my opinion on the Irish language.

Is detesting a language a crime around here?

If I went onto a horse racing forum and I posted "LOL - what a pathetic excuse for a sport; no wonder it's perishing."

Although the sport is thriving but I have no connection/interest in it and make broad statements like it's perishing, people would presume I'm being a troll.

Maybe you think the Irish language is perishing but you thinking that doesn't make it true.

Yag reuoY

dlofnep wrote: »

Languages evolve all the time. What's your point?



A primitive language? Surely, aren't all languages primitive with the exception of Esperanto? As for having no aesthetic qualities - That's subjective. I find it to be a delightful language.

None of the above explains your original post which stated "what a pathetic excuse for a language". Your vitriol for language is absurd.

The Irish language didn't evolve naturally, lets be honest.

A one size fits all version was required for nationalistic reasons.

For this reason I see very little integrity in the language.

Marcia Lustley

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I think this does indicate the lack of interest in Irish generally among the population.

I can't think of a time I overheard anyone conducting a converstaion in Irish. Ever.

The lack of interest isn't just down to the quality of treaching, it's also very much to do with the quality of the language itself.

you need to get out more.

no point arguing with you tho, as i said i respect your opinion. give me that common courtesy as well