Bertie – The Greatest Secondhand Car Salesman in Ireland

jetsonx

It amazes me how many people are angry at Bertie Ahern.

They are angry in the same way that you should be angry if he was a dictator imposed upon the people but people are forgetting he was democratically elected.

The people, yes you, your mother and father, your aunts and uncles, your cousins, your friends and neighbours went out in 2002 and again in 2007 and voted Bertie into power (much to my annoyance).You voted into power the protégé of Charlie Haughy. The man who signed blank cheques.

I remember the cold responses the electorate gave Michael Noonan in the 2002 and 2007 campaign trails. Maybe we would not be in this mess if people had exercised some proper judgment.

Bertie did a great act on the political stage. He always told people what they wanted to hear. His persona was charming and agreeable. He played the “man of the people” to perfection. And the Irish people with cheap credit flowing into their accounts fell for it. Now we are paying the price.

So why are people angry? You voted for him, your family and family and friends voted for him.

If I go out in the morning and buy a used-car sold by a charming, one-of-the-lads salesmen that told me exactly what I wanted to hear about the car. But then after a couple of months I realize the car is complete crock of sh*t. It’s my fault. No one to blame but myself for believing the lies.

So why are Irish people blaming Bertie, he played politics so well. He faked sincerity. He told people what they wanted to hear all the time. But most of it strategy was short-term and wreckless. And now the people are angry? Don’t forget who voted him in.

Mario007

Excellent post and says something that needed to be said a long time ago. But just watch the "I didn't vote him" comments come swirling in, even though in 2007 FF got almost half the electorate to vote for them.

rockmongrel

Mario007 wrote: »

Excellent post and says something that needed to be said a long time ago. But just watch the "I didn't vote him" comments come swirling in, even though in 2007 FF got almost half the electorate to vote for them.

Just because you pre-empt the comments, doesn't mean they aren't completely valid. So, no, I didn't vote for him and neither did anyone in my family except one grandparent.

People are completely justified in their anger over a man who was part of a crowd who completely fúcked over the country and who still claims hundreds of thousands in expenses. It doesn't even matter if someone voted for him, he's a lying, snivelling, little cheat of a man who jumped ship while the country was collapsing, solely to save his own skin. History will show Bertie Ahern to be the horrid man that he is and while he may not care, future generations will hopefully learn to never trust again a person who made such reckless use of doublespeak and political manipulation.

Fúck you Bertie Ahern, fúck you.

raymon

Dear jetsonx , the fact that some people voted for bertie is irrelevant when discussing whether he was incompetent, corrupt or a traitor or not

People voted for gerry Adams. That shouldn't have any bearing on whether he was a murderer or not

What's your point ??????

raymon

Mario007 wrote: »

Excellent post and says something that needed to be said a long time ago. But just watch the "I didn't vote him" comments come swirling in, even though in 2007 FF got almost half the electorate to vote for them.

I didn't vote for this sponger or any of the corrupt FFers

Swirl that in Mario

Liam Byrne

jetsonx wrote: »

The people, yes you, your mother and father, your aunts and uncles, your cousins, your friends and neighbours went out in 2002 and again in 2007 and voted Bertie into power (much to my annoyance).You voted into power the protégé of Charlie Haughy. The man who signed blank cheques.

100% Incorrect.

jetsonx wrote: »

Bertie did a great act on the political stage. He always told people what they wanted to hear.

He never once told me anything that I wanted to hear, or would have considered remotely believeable.

jetsonx wrote: »

His persona was charming and agreeable. He played the “man of the people” to perfection.

He always struck me as a condescending fake SOB, but then again you seem to know more about me and my voting than me, so maybe I'm wrong about that too.

jetsonx wrote: »

So why are people angry? You voted for him, your family and family and friends voted for him.

False again.

Why are you making so many false claims in a single post ? What have you to gain from spreading the usual Patrick Bartholemew Ahern lies ?

Come back to us when you have something even remotely truthful or factual to post.

Yes, some idiots fell for Ahern's lies, through a combination of his "used car salesman" faux personality and the fact that he did say some stuff that people wanted to hear. Unfortunately enough of them did to impose him on the rest of us.

But aside from that your post is complete rubbish, making false claims about me, my family and my friends, NONE of whom voted for Ahern or FF, and I can state that as fact.

I cannot - unlike you - speak for other people whom I don't even know, and I wouldn't be arrogant or deluded enough to but since you were very explicit in the way you phrased your post re me, my friends and my family, I can 100% state that you are 100% wrong.

goose2005

2002 general election - FF 770,800 votes. 41.5% of the country.
2007 - 858,565. 41.6%

Bear that in mind whenever you hear anyone complain about the "elite" that sold us out. Everyone knew how FF operated, all the warning signs were there, but more than 2/5 of the country still supported them.

raymon

goose2005 wrote: »

2002 general election - FF 770,800 votes. 41.5% of the country.
2007 - 858,565. 41.6%

Bear that in mind whenever you hear anyone complain about the "elite" that sold us out. Everyone knew how FF operated, all the warning signs were there, but more than 2/5 of the country still supported them.

Why does that absolve him of guilt ????

I'm confused, .......... is this another Ogra "we love bertie " thread ????

Sunnyisland

A lot of people like to belief what there hearing, That they the politicians will sort it all out,that's what they get paid for. Actually imo i think a lot of people assume that politicians are more intelligent & honest and will always put there country first and corruption & dodgy deals only happen in darkest Africa.

LLU

that really is a pretty grevious slur on all the Secondhand Car Salesmen in Ireland.

end a eknny

raymon wrote: »

Dear jetsonx , the fact that some people voted for bertie is irrelevant when discussing whether he was incompetent, corrupt or a traitor or not

People voted for gerry Adams. That shouldn't have any bearing on whether he was a murderer or not

What's your point ??????

whats your point................look you have repeatedly made your point your a finegael supporter .so its clear you have no understanding of anything political after 5 or six years of complete and utter incompetence, lies,waffle, passing the blame, denial and stuffing every organisation in the country with their cronies you will have a clearer understanding

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

whats your point................look you have repeatedly made your point your a finegael supporter .so its clear you have no understanding of anything political after 5 or six years of complete and utter incompetence, lies,waffle, passing the blame, denial and stuffing every organisation in the country with their cronies you will have a clearer understanding

Funny that - some FF apologists don't seem to let any of that change their opinion, even after 10 or more years of it.

blahfckingblah

Lets see, I never voted/will vote fianna fail, my parents never did, my grandparents did but not since the early 70's. Aunts and Uncles don't.

I don't like the tone of your OP, it suggests its everyone elses fault but yours as you didnt vote for them but this group of people MUST have as Bertie was elected.

Michael Noonan still gets a cold reception from me because i don't like him and I don't trust him to do his job properly and I don't think he would have been a good taoiseach either.

Yes his policys were short term as his memory turned out to be. He played politics surely and he got away with it. If you commit a crime but nobody notices until its finished its still a crime. Unless of course you're Bertie Ahern

ilovesleep

More FF spin to blame the nation of their sheer and utter greed and incompetence. There must be some juicy news on the way out soon. Look, Bertie, in disguise, you were in charge of this country. You used your position of power for your own gains and to help your developer friends. You were given two warnings in which you ignored. ESRI report from 2000 warning you that the country was heading for ruins. A warning from 2006 from Morgan Kelly in which you told him to commit sucide. You took no corrective actions to these warnings. Were this warnings issued by letter to every home in the country? No. Sh1t falls back on you Maggot. You left the sinking ship to save your own ass when things started going downhill. The rest of your party sold this country to failing banks. Now, do us all a favour hurry up and die.

end a eknny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

100% Incorrect.



He never once told me anything that I wanted to hear, or would have considered remotely believeable.



He always struck me as a condescending fake SOB, but then again you seem to know more about me and my voting than me, so maybe I'm wrong about that too.



False again.

Why are you making so many false claims in a single post ? What have you to gain from spreading the usual Patrick Bartholemew Ahern lies ?

Come back to us when you have something even remotely truthful or factual to post.

Yes, some idiots fell for Ahern's lies, through a combination of his "used car salesman" faux personality and the fact that he did say some stuff that people wanted to hear. Unfortunately enough of them did to impose him on the rest of us.

But aside from that your post is complete rubbish, making false claims about me, my family and my friends, NONE of whom voted for Ahern or FF, and I can state that as fact.

I cannot - unlike you - speak for other people whom I don't even know, and I wouldn't be arrogant or deluded enough to but since you were very explicit in the way you phrased your post re me, my friends and my family, I can 100% state that you are 100% wrong.

i cant understand finegaels supporters problem with bertie if he hadnt gone into power with the greens and f.g had gone into power they wouldnt have had even one t.d elected and f.f with be in power for the next fifty years. so realistically it was berties desire to remain in power give f.g the oppourtunity to come back from the brink. if the ecconomy picks up f. will be laughing but looking at their ministers i wouldnt be holding out much hope

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

i cant understand finegaels supporters problem with bertie.......

Fair enough, but why did you quote my post in order to say that ?

Take that issue up with FG supporters.

end a eknny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Fair enough, but why did you quote my post in order to say that ?

Take that issue up with FG supporters.

liam whats the problem with admiting where your alegiances are. you argue against politicans for not telling the truth and then.................

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

liam whats the problem with admiting where your alegiances are. you argue against politicans for not telling the truth and then.................

I'm going to say this once. I have no political allegiance to any party, and view FG merely as the best of a bad lot.

If you want to delude yourself otherwise and ignore the above fact in order to pretend that any criticism of FF isn't party political bull****, then it is your choice, however it will be blatantly obvious that it is just a technique that you use to deflect attention from FF's disasters by pretending that there is an ulterior agenda behind criticising them.

So just bear in mind that (a) you are wrong and (b) will make yourself look like an idiot.

I've explained this before, so do not repeat your false claim that I am associated with or have an allegiance to any party.

Because repeating it after being corrected would mean that you were then deliberately lying in order to further your own agenda.

What is so difficult to accept about the fact that some people do not have any party allegiance and simply want a better Ireland - and a better politician - than appears to be available ?

raymon

end a eknny wrote: »

whats your point................look you have repeatedly made your point your a finegael supporter .so its clear you have no understanding of anything political

2 points
1 ) I am not fg , being anti FF treason doesn't make me FG
2 ) none of your posts exhibit any political understanding

nesf

Less of the handbags please ladies

end a eknny

raymon wrote: »

2 points
1 ) I am not fg , being anti FF treason doesn't make me FG
2 ) none of your posts exhibit any political understanding

unlike some i like to live in the real world. i am aware that if there is a global recession this country will suffer. i am also aware that a lot of people paid twice as much for there property as they should have and a lot of people took out mortages they should not have. they are now looking for somebody to blame well looking in a mirror would be a good start

skelliser

One night out during the bubble years i met one particular gob****e.
This guy ran his own carpentry business.

The conversation ended when he said the following:
" Fianna Fail are for the big people and im one of the big people, thats why i vote Fianna Fail"

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

i am also aware that a lot of people paid twice as much for there property as they should have and a lot of people took out mortages they should not have. they are now looking for somebody to blame well looking in a mirror would be a good start

Then penalise those people and leave the rest of us alone.

And get Ahern to look in the mirror and face facts as you're at it.

end a eknny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Then penalise those people and leave the rest of us alone.

And get Ahern to look in the mirror and face facts as you're at it.

you voted fine gael they are in power get them to sort it. as for leaving the rest alone their is the minor issue of global recession. good to know things arent too bad for you still have your electric and internet which makes you better off than 85% of the worlds population

storker

Wow.. .this thread really is a monument to bad maths. First we hear that "nearly half" voted for FF, then "more than 2/5" voted for FF and yet, somehow, magically, these fractions = "everybody".

Hmmmmmm. I suppose "more than half didn't vote for FF" or "nearly 3/5 didn't vote for FF" doesn't sound as good.

Stork

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

you voted fine gael they are in power get them to sort it.

So tell us - how do you "sort" a ridiculous and crippling bank guarantee that FF imposed to avoid nationalising the banks which were then nationalised, giving the worst of both worlds ?

I agree that FG & Labour applied for the job and need to do something, and hopefully a proper, decent political party will be in play before the next general election.

That said, even that political party will be useless if there isn't political reform that does away with the stupid party whip (the main reason that I'm against ANY party politics) and that prevents those who like the status quo from "winning".

In the meantime, however, at least the corruption that you admitted to and condone is out of our hair....hopefully for good.

And whenever the Mahon tribunal does get around to reporting, maybe we'll see Ahern where he belongs, and where he won't ever have to worry about someone else buying him a house ever again.

end a eknny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So tell us - how do you "sort" a ridiculous and crippling bank guarantee that FF imposed to avoid nationalising the banks which were then nationalised, giving the worst of both worlds ?

I agree that FG & Labour applied for the job and need to do something, and hopefully a proper, decent political party will be in play before the next general election.

That said, even that political party will be useless if there isn't political reform that does away with the stupid party whip (the main reason that I'm against ANY party politics) and that prevents those who like the status quo from "winning".

In the meantime, however, at least the corruption that you admitted to and condone is out of our hair....hopefully for good.

And whenever the Mahon tribunal does get around to reporting, maybe we'll see Ahern where he belongs, and where he won't ever have to worry about someone else buying him a house ever again.

how could a party without whip rule. that would mean that every minister t.d would be just look after their own ass making sure they got elected next time around. a party needs guidelines and policies if you voted for a party based on your local politicans policies and a t.d from another county was implementing completely different policies. how would that work

end a eknny

as for sorting bank guarantee i think sinn fein dealt with that. it was to take your hand out of your pocket raise it up, clench you fist and raise you middle finger and show merkel and sarkozy what we think of them

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

how could a party without whip rule. that would mean that every minister t.d would be just look after their own ass making sure they got elected next time around. a party needs guidelines and policies if you voted for a party based on your local politicans policies and a t.d from another county was implementing completely different policies. how would that work

We'd need a better quality politician....one that was more interested in getting things done for the good of the country than covering their own asses and those of their mates.

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

as for sorting bank guarantee i think sinn fein dealt with that. it was to take your hand out of your pocket raise it up, clench you fist and raise you middle finger and show merkel and sarkozy what we think of them

SF were / are not an option for me, because they gave the two-fingers to what I believe in for far too long......FFS, they can't even bring themselves refer to this state by its name or condemn the murder of its representatives.

But this is heading off-topic and taking away the focus of the thread from its intention - the despicable and unforgiveable actions of Ahern. We can discuss the other things in another thread without causing people to forget what that devious and contemptuous individual represents.

Godge

jetsonx wrote: »

It amazes me how many people are angry at Bertie Ahern.

They are angry in the same way that you should be angry if he was a dictator imposed upon the people but people are forgetting he was democratically elected.

The people, yes you, your mother and father, your aunts and uncles, your cousins, your friends and neighbours went out in 2002 and again in 2007 and voted Bertie into power (much to my annoyance).You voted into power the protégé of Charlie Haughy. The man who signed blank cheques.

I remember the cold responses the electorate gave Michael Noonan in the 2002 and 2007 campaign trails. Maybe we would not be in this mess if people had exercised some proper judgment.

Bertie did a great act on the political stage. He always told people what they wanted to hear. His persona was charming and agreeable. He played the “man of the people” to perfection. And the Irish people with cheap credit flowing into their accounts fell for it. Now we are paying the price.

So why are people angry? You voted for him, your family and family and friends voted for him.

If I go out in the morning and buy a used-car sold by a charming, one-of-the-lads salesmen that told me exactly what I wanted to hear about the car. But then after a couple of months I realize the car is complete crock of sh*t. It’s my fault. No one to blame but myself for believing the lies.

So why are Irish people blaming Bertie, he played politics so well. He faked sincerity. He told people what they wanted to hear all the time. But most of it strategy was short-term and wreckless. And now the people are angry? Don’t forget who voted him in.

On the other hand, those of us who saw throuh him for what he was, have been going around for the last three years reminding all those who told us they were voting FF in 2007 what they brought down on us. I will keep reminding people until my dying day what FF and Bertie Ahern did to this country and I hope it will be enough to keep them from power for generations to come.

As for Bertie, he only ever wanted one thing in life - to become Taoiseach. When he got there he couldn't figure out what to do so he just stuck around.

raymon

end a eknny wrote: »

as for sorting bank guarantee i think sinn fein dealt with that. it was to take your hand out of your pocket raise it up, clench you fist and raise you middle finger and show merkel and sarkozy what we think of them

What does this post mean.????

Are you pro SF ??

Are you saying that SFs fiscal policies are good ?

HellsAngel

LLU wrote: »

that really is a pretty grevious slur on all the Secondhand Car Salesmen in Ireland.

Excellent. I think we should have a " Lets all laugh at Fianna Fail " thread

end a eknny

raymon wrote: »

What does this post mean.????

Are you pro SF ??

Are you saying that SFs fiscal policies are good ?

i am pro not paying back the gambling debts of big nations who fuelled the property bubble in ireland. its amazing we are getting a loan of the very people who gambled to pay them back for their loses. it would be funnny if it wasnt true. as for their other ecconomice policies well they are very different than those of f.g f.f and lab. could they work i dont know its sure that the polices pursued by the latter dont.as for s.f republican past that is nothing to be ashamed of fighting for what is right is a noble thing. lying on the ground and rolling over was never a good idea, no more than was finegaels idea of creating a problem and then turning your back and ignoring it hoping it would go away.if you had to give bertie credit for something it was acheiving peace in ireland. something which john brutal(i love you charles) in his short time as leader nearly managed to make a balls of despite it being handed to him on a plate

jetsonx

In fact, some people I was speaking to last night were so bitter towards
Bertie they sounded like scorned women...whose husband promised them
everything but then did a runner leaving them penniless.

Liam Byrne

jetsonx wrote: »

In fact, some people I was speaking to last night were so bitter towards
Bertie they sounded like scorned women...whose husband promised them
everything but then did a runner leaving them penniless.

You were talking to Miriam ?

x in the city

jetsonx wrote: »

It amazes me how many people are angry at Bertie Ahern.

They are angry in the same way that you should be angry if he was a dictator imposed upon the people but people are forgetting he was democratically elected.

The people, yes you, your mother and father, your aunts and uncles, your cousins, your friends and neighbours went out in 2002 and again in 2007 and voted Bertie into power (much to my annoyance).You voted into power the protégé of Charlie Haughy. The man who signed blank cheques.

I remember the cold responses the electorate gave Michael Noonan in the 2002 and 2007 campaign trails. Maybe we would not be in this mess if people had exercised some proper judgment.

Bertie did a great act on the political stage. He always told people what they wanted to hear. His persona was charming and agreeable. He played the “man of the people” to perfection. And the Irish people with cheap credit flowing into their accounts fell for it. Now we are paying the price.

So why are people angry? You voted for him, your family and family and friends voted for him.

If I go out in the morning and buy a used-car sold by a charming, one-of-the-lads salesmen that told me exactly what I wanted to hear about the car. But then after a couple of months I realize the car is complete crock of sh*t. It’s my fault. No one to blame but myself for believing the lies.

So why are Irish people blaming Bertie, he played politics so well. He faked sincerity. He told people what they wanted to hear all the time. But most of it strategy was short-term and wreckless. And now the people are angry? Don’t forget who voted him in.

all the idiots in leinster, thats who voted.

Smiley Burnett

jetsonx wrote: »

It amazes me how many people are angry at Bertie Ahern.

They are angry in the same way that you should be angry if he was a dictator imposed upon the people but people are forgetting he was democratically elected.

The people, yes you, your mother and father, your aunts and uncles, your cousins, your friends and neighbours went out in 2002 and again in 2007 and voted Bertie into power (much to my annoyance).You voted into power the protégé of Charlie Haughy. The man who signed blank cheques.

I remember the cold responses the electorate gave Michael Noonan in the 2002 and 2007 campaign trails. Maybe we would not be in this mess if people had exercised some proper judgment.

Bertie did a great act on the political stage. He always told people what they wanted to hear. His persona was charming and agreeable. He played the “man of the people” to perfection. And the Irish people with cheap credit flowing into their accounts fell for it. Now we are paying the price.

So why are people angry? You voted for him, your family and family and friends voted for him.

If I go out in the morning and buy a used-car sold by a charming, one-of-the-lads salesmen that told me exactly what I wanted to hear about the car. But then after a couple of months I realize the car is complete crock of sh*t. It’s my fault. No one to blame but myself for believing the lies.

So why are Irish people blaming Bertie, he played politics so well. He faked sincerity. He told people what they wanted to hear all the time. But most of it strategy was short-term and wreckless. And now the people are angry? Don’t forget who voted him in.

I couldnt have said it better myself!! and dont be afraid to keep reminding people of this!!!

Liam Byrne

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

I couldnt have said it better myself!! and dont be afraid to keep reminding people of this!!!

Just be more selective who you two are reminding, because - as I stated earlier - you are very, very wrong if they point the "you, your parents, etc" voted for Bertie and his band of dodgy characters at me or any of my relations or friends.

Is it OK if I'm not afraid to remind people of the above fact too, or do you only post that in relation to people that you choose to agree with ?

jetsonx

I am not stating you your friends or family voted for him Liam.

There is a very high probability that everyone knows someone who voted
for this rat. 4 out of 10 people. That is a shocking figure.

Liam Byrne

jetsonx wrote: »

I am not stating you your friends or family voted for him Liam.

Really ? Your post said :

jetsonx wrote: »

You voted for him, your family and family and friends voted for him.

There was no way of reading that other than a claim that me, my family and friends voted for him.

jetsonx wrote: »

There is a very high probability that everyone knows someone who voted for this rat. 4 out of 10 people. That is a shocking figure.

Agreed. However if it's any consolation I cut ties with a few people when they said they would vote FF in 2007 and 2011.

Maybe I'm just more selective about who I have as friends than most.

That said, 60% of people didn't vote for him or his crew, which is a relief; unfortunately they didn't do that in time to save the rest of us from being dragged down by the rat.

paul71

end a eknny wrote: »

whats your point................look you have repeatedly made your point your a finegael supporter .so its clear you have no understanding of anything political after 5 or six years of complete and utter incompetence, lies,waffle, passing the blame, denial and stuffing every organisation in the country with their cronies you will have a clearer understanding

This the sort of foolishness that gave us 60 years of cival war politics. Calling people supporter or considering oneself a supporter demeans politics to the level of team sports.

raymon

end a eknny wrote: »

i am pro not paying back the gambling debts of big nations who fuelled the property bubble in ireland. its amazing we are getting a loan of the very people who gambled to pay them back for their loses. it would be funnny if it wasnt true. as for their other ecconomice policies well they are very different than those of f.g f.f and lab. could they work i dont know its sure that the polices pursued by the latter dont.as for s.f republican past that is nothing to be ashamed of fighting for what is right is a noble thing. lying on the ground and rolling over was never a good idea, no more than was finegaels idea of creating a problem and then turning your back and ignoring it hoping it would go away.if you had to give bertie credit for something it was acheiving peace in ireland. something which john brutal(i love you charles) in his short time as leader nearly managed to make a balls of despite it being handed to him on a plate

Come on, you know your SF buddies couldn't add 2+2

end a eknny

paul71 wrote: »

This the sort of foolishness that gave us 60 years of cival war politics. Calling people supporter or considering oneself a supporter demeans politics to the level of team sports.

but civil war politics is the only realistic difference between f.g and f.f. in reality if somebody didnt know who was in power there would be no obvious difference in the policies pursued.

end a eknny

raymon wrote: »

Come on, you know your SF buddies couldn't add 2+2

well with f.g and labour we have 14% + unemployment and rising this equates to a lot of people living of social welfare if we continue the usual policies we will see the same cycle of families remaining in welfare and this will inevitably harm are society and ecconomy

raymon

end a eknny wrote: »

well with f.g and labour we have 14% + unemployment and rising this equates to a lot of people living of social welfare if we continue the usual policies we will see the same cycle of families remaining in welfare and this will inevitably harm are society and ecconomy

All caused by FF traitors

paul71

Actually honesty and lack of pandering to anyone and everyone of the differences between FF and FG. In fairness FF under Albert Reynolds were heading in the right direction, but the other 3 leaders since the seventies were were just awful, there really is no other way to discribe them.

The Ahern/McCreevey partnership was the real cause of the problem as they caused the real house price inflation bubble by way of continuing tax relief on Residential property when the tax relief should have been switched to Light Industrial developement. They also brought that great idea - benchmarking.

By the time Cowen became finance minister the damage done was probably irreversable but instead of doing something he actually fueled the problem.

end a eknny

raymon wrote: »

All caused by FF traitors

with the other parties in the background promising bigger and better things with lower taxes and more spending

Zombrex

raymon wrote: »

What's your point ??????

The point is that the country is now washing their hands of FF as if they were some how tricked or mislead by them.

They weren't. FF did exactly what it said on the tin. The boosted an unsustainable property bubble to support taxes. They put the interests of their business friends and local issues above national economic interest. They acted with stupidity and ignorance. But all this was known at the time and people continued to vote for them. The country is in this mess because of the large majority of people who voted for the populist nonsense FF gave out instead of educating themselves as to the damage it would cause. Anyone who says we didn't see the crash coming, or that they expected a soft landing is either lying or a moron. My mother saw the crash coming and she is hardly a professor of economics.

I appreciate that those supporting this cabal of idiots wasn't you or me, or my family or your family. But the country is not going to improve until the people who were still voting for FF during the noughties take a good hard look at themselves and ask themselves they good sense left them during that time. That applies equally well to the opposition parties who were too afraid to appear unpopular to question a lot of the economic stupidity that was happening.

"FF lied to us" has turned into the scape goat answer for FF supporters when in reality they were just a representation of the stupidity of this country in general. If people are prepared to vote for populist nonsense they will end up with a bunch of monkeys running the country, and that is exactly what we got.

hinault

jetsonx wrote: »

It amazes me how many people are angry at Bertie Ahern.

They are angry in the same way that you should be angry if he was a dictator imposed upon the people but people are forgetting he was democratically elected.

The people, yes you, your mother and father, your aunts and uncles, your cousins, your friends and neighbours went out in 2002 and again in 2007 and voted Bertie into power (much to my annoyance).You voted into power the protégé of Charlie Haughy. The man who signed blank cheques.

I remember the cold responses the electorate gave Michael Noonan in the 2002 and 2007 campaign trails. Maybe we would not be in this mess if people had exercised some proper judgment.

Bertie did a great act on the political stage. He always told people what they wanted to hear. His persona was charming and agreeable. He played the “man of the people” to perfection. And the Irish people with cheap credit flowing into their accounts fell for it. Now we are paying the price.

So why are people angry? You voted for him, your family and family and friends voted for him.

If I go out in the morning and buy a used-car sold by a charming, one-of-the-lads salesmen that told me exactly what I wanted to hear about the car. But then after a couple of months I realize the car is complete crock of sh*t. It’s my fault. No one to blame but myself for believing the lies.

So why are Irish people blaming Bertie, he played politics so well. He faked sincerity. He told people what they wanted to hear all the time. But most of it strategy was short-term and wreckless. And now the people are angry? Don’t forget who voted him in.

I haven't given a FF politician a vote since 1982.

end a eknny

paul71 wrote: »

Actually honesty and lack of pandering to anyone and everyone of the differences between FF and FG. In fairness FF under Albert Reynolds were heading in the right direction, but the other 3 leaders since the seventies were were just awful, there really is no other way to discribe them.

The Ahern/McCreevey partnership was the real cause of the problem as they caused the real house price inflation bubble by way of continuing tax relief on Residential property when the tax relief should have been switched to Light Industrial developement. They also brought that great idea - benchmarking.

By the time Cowen became finance minister the damage done was probably irreversable but instead of doing something he actually fueled the problem.

look the simple thing is that goverments are short sighted (unfortynately they would not be there if they wernt) and they will pander to everybody and everything. a lot of the problem is probably with the civil servants who are the only constant and they probably arent up to the job (but their position is not under threat )