last chance to buy silver

digme

Last time to buy silver at around 30 an ounce. It has stayed over 40 dollars now for a fair few days last week and has done so again yesterday.When it breaks 50 in the coming weeks there is no going back.
If you're looking for an investment, put a small bit into silver.

SyntonFenix

Where's the best place to buy it?

snowstreams

Is silver as dependent on the economic sentiment as gold?
I have a good bit of money (in euros) that im saving for a house deposit. But if the euro goes under it would lose most of its money.
It silver as good an option as gold?
Or should i be looking more like putting 20% of my money in silver 40% gold and 40% in something else (british pounds)?

irishh_bob

snowstreams wrote: »

Is silver as dependent on the economic sentiment as gold?
I have a good bit of money (in euros) that im saving for a house deposit. But if the euro goes under it would lose most of its money.
It silver as good an option as gold?
Or should i be looking more like putting 20% of my money in silver 40% gold and 40% in something else (british pounds)?

while thier both prescious metals , silver commands it value primarily through industrial demand , therefore a rescession should not be good news for silver , gold is the opposite , gold loves bad news economically and otherwise

snowstreams

Thanks,
I saw that silver seemed to take a dive during the recession back in 2008, so I was wondering how good an investment it really would have been.
I must read through most of these stickies now to figure out what I should do with my savings until I buy a house.
Looks like anything but Euro with the way the news is going!

Low Energy Eng

irishh_bob wrote: »

while thier both prescious metals , silver commands it value primarily through industrial demand , therefore a rescession should not be good news for silver , gold is the opposite , gold loves bad news economically and otherwise

While this is true, have a look at how much india and chinas economies are growing

bigneacy

Is silver a good long term investment, if I buy now at current price, how likely is it to top $185, $190 an ounce?

bren2002

bigneacy wrote: »

Is silver a good long term investment, if I buy now at current price, how likely is it to top $185, $190 an ounce?

About 15/20 years to get to that level.

Lex_Diamonds

I think it's best used as a shield against inflation rather than something that'll net you a big return.

irishh_bob

bigneacy wrote: »

Is silver a good long term investment, if I buy now at current price, how likely is it to top $185, $190 an ounce?

maybe never , its 30 euro an ounce right now , if it got to 50 euro in five years , wouldnt you be delighted ?

eire2009

Its not only the industrial demand, it has a historical ratio to gold which most suggest its vastly undervalued but it could also mean that gold is overvalued and needs to drop to reduce to ratio.

Silver is also in decline apparently as more is used than pulled out of the ground each year. Where gold increases as its not thrown away on industrial uses.

Theres also a a theory that the full amount paper silver sold on the stock market cannot be backed fully by physical silver. Hence if you start to see an increase in the price of physical silver in comparison to the spot price it is suggesting the demand is increasing for the which may not be seen on the stock market as there has been a lot of manipulation in the last 6 months with margin increases which keep slapping the price down.

There will always be this manipulation in the markets as increasing gold/silver = weakening dollar. If you noticed gold/silver dropping a bit and ignoring the falling markets because of the recent dollar rally where it jumped 7-8% against the euro.

Its risky either way, you cant loose all your money as gold and silver will never be worth nothing. But they could easily drop like gold did after the Afghan Russian war, silver did after the market squeeze.

Theres a lot of factors but Id say with the turmoil in the markets now its safe for 3-6 months.

I personally sold my gold as I had too much money on it, kept a bit of silver have a few dollars and sterling.

snowstreams

eire2009 wrote: »

....
I personally sold my gold as I had too much money on it, kept a bit of silver have a few dollars and sterling.

How did you get your sterling and dollars. Did you buy cash from a currency exchange or is there a easier/better way to get dollars?

bigneacy

eire2009 wrote: »

Its not only the industrial demand, it has a historical ratio to gold which most suggest its vastly undervalued but it could also mean that gold is overvalued and needs to drop to reduce to ratio.

Silver is also in decline apparently as more is used than pulled out of the ground each year. Where gold increases as its not thrown away on industrial uses.

Theres also a a theory that the full amount paper silver sold on the stock market cannot be backed fully by physical silver. Hence if you start to see an increase in the price of physical silver in comparison to the spot price it is suggesting the demand is increasing for the which may not be seen on the stock market as there has been a lot of manipulation in the last 6 months with margin increases which keep slapping the price down.

There will always be this manipulation in the markets as increasing gold/silver = weakening dollar. If you noticed gold/silver dropping a bit and ignoring the falling markets because of the recent dollar rally where it jumped 7-8% against the euro.

Its risky either way, you cant loose all your money as gold and silver will never be worth nothing. But they could easily drop like gold did after the Afghan Russian war, silver did after the market squeeze.

Theres a lot of factors but Id say with the turmoil in the markets now its safe for 3-6 months.

I personally sold my gold as I had too much money on it, kept a bit of silver have a few dollars and sterling.

Well, the reason I ask is because someone involved in the gold industry told me that he reckons gold will get to at least $3100 before the bubble either bursts or slowly deflates - he reckons silver should be at a ratio of 1:16 with gold, and that this ratio would correct itself to that level before the market starts falling - I was thinking - I have a source where I could buy silver jewellery at ~$9.30 per ounce.

So, how beneficial would it be to buy say - 59 ounces, look into getting it smelted into 2X1 kilo bars and wait it out? Or would the margin be eaten by getting it smelted myself? The cost to me would be the initial ~$550, plus the cost of getting it smelted (dunno where to do this either!!)

eire2009

snowstreams wrote: »

How did you get your sterling and dollars. Did you buy cash from a currency exchange or is there a easier/better way to get dollars?

No, I had a Lloyds UK account from working over there it was quiet easy to open. Its easy if you already have an account with them to open an International Account in Dollars,Sterling and Euro. I just did a transfer of euros into either currency using a broker. You can use Lloyds and just transfer from each account but they take like 2.5% commission

eire2009

bigneacy wrote: »

Well, the reason I ask is because someone involved in the gold industry told me that he reckons gold will get to at least $3100 before the bubble either bursts or slowly deflates - he reckons silver should be at a ratio of 1:16 with gold, and that this ratio would correct itself to that level before the market starts falling - I was thinking - I have a source where I could buy silver jewellery at ~$9.30 per ounce.

So, how beneficial would it be to buy say - 59 ounces, look into getting it smelted into 2X1 kilo bars and wait it out? Or would the margin be eaten by getting it smelted myself? The cost to me would be the initial ~$550, plus the cost of getting it smelted (dunno where to do this either!!)

The silver jewellery or junk silver as they call it is not investment grade(99.999%) depending on the quality,I think sterling silver is like 92% which is the best.

You wont get the spot price for junk silver and it is a lot harder to sell. You can buy a smelting kits on ebay but to be honest I`d just keep the jewellery might be easier to sell.

That ratio is a bit optimistic seen as it was from 100 years ago or during the market squeeze of silver, I don't think the ratio will change that much in silvers favour but who knows.

I sold my physical gold because the vaults where I had it stored said they'd buy it back at spot price, but I started thinking if the bottom was to fall out of gold I don't think they would be to quick to buy and if they refused Id be left waiting 10+ days for the delivery and god only knows how long to sell it when I had it.

waken

Silver back down to 39 today and dropping like a stone

irishh_bob

waken wrote: »

Silver back down to 39 today and dropping like a stone

been stuck around 40 dollars an ounce for over four months now

eire2009

Irish_bob wrote: »

been stuck around 40 dollars an ounce for over four months now

Is 100% increase over 52 weeks not enough, patience people..

waken

Eire
I understand what you are saying. Its a good return over the long term and probably a good long term investment.
I am a short term trader and looking for short term trends (days/weeks) so my perspective is slightly different.

Regards
Waken

eire2009

waken wrote: »

Eire
I understand what you are saying. Its a good return over the long term and probably a good long term investment.
I am a short term trader and looking for short term trends (days/weeks) so my perspective is slightly different.

Regards
Waken

You can always short it if you think its going to drop like a stone, but it has been boping up and down $39-$44 but thats mostly been down to the strength of the dollar.

waken

Eire
Its down to 37 at the moment and if it closes below 37.6 it may drop all the way to 34 before it hits its next support area.

Waken

irishh_bob

waken wrote: »

Eire
Its down to 37 at the moment and if it closes below 37.6 it may drop all the way to 34 before it hits its next support area.

Waken

poor economic outlook is negative for silver , different story with gold which is seen as a safe haven , i myself bought silver ( quite a bit ) at 28 euro , only did it as i was all in gold up to that , it was against my better judgement

eire2009

Today is not a good day, but nothing has changed or looks like changing in the future regarding the debt levels and printing presses. Theres a global sell off atm with investors putting their money back into the dollar.

It might take it months but it will come back, but if it falls past $34 I wont be paying any more margin calls and will be sticking long term to the physical. I'm hedged slightly cause I have dollars but I`d loose all my gold profits if I was to sell today. Never thought id see a drop of this magnitude in a couple of hours, but I know it will bounce back but how high depends on the dollars strength.

As stocks fall, investors must liquidate profitable positions in gold/silver to cover margin calls.

irishh_bob

eire2009 wrote: »

Today is not a good day, but nothing has changed or looks like changing in the future regarding the debt levels and printing presses. Theres a global sell off atm with investors putting their money back into the dollar.

It might take it months but it will come back, but if it falls past $34 I wont be paying any more margin calls and will be sticking long term to the physical. I'm hedged slightly cause I have dollars but I`d loose all my gold profits if I was to sell today. Never thought id see a drop of this magnitude in a couple of hours, but I know it will bounce back but how high depends on the dollars strength.

As stocks fall, investors must liquidate profitable positions in gold/silver to cover margin calls.

by the same token , if the euro crumbles and ireland has to go back to the punt , those with gold will see huge gains , the dollar wont be the only refuge

waken

It just hit 34.2 today and its comming down to a strong support level at around 33.3/33.7. all of which lines up with the 50 EMA on the weekly chart. Hopefully we will see a return to positive territory soon.

Waken

eire2009

Irish_bob wrote: »

by the same token , if the euro crumbles and Ireland has to go back to the punt , those with gold will see huge gains , the dollar wont be the only refuge

Not necessarily, as this would mean the Dollar back to the king reserve currency with no alternative. A strengthening Dollar would reduce the price of nearly all major commodities as they are bought and sold mostly in Dollars(This is what is happening now)

Its possible against the punt you would see small gains in gold but you'd be better off with Dollars or Sterling.

But like everything in life nothing is certain and I just got wiped off the market today so no more trading for me:o. Luckily the blow was hugely softened by the profit I made in gold.
My hope now is in the next year my physical will pop its head back up above 30 euro before I have to pay the yearly fee for holding it in the vault.

irishh_bob

eire2009 wrote: »

Not necessarily, as this would mean the Dollar back to the king reserve currency with no alternative. A strengthening Dollar would reduce the price of nearly all major commodities as they are bought and sold mostly in Dollars(This is what is happening now)

Its possible against the punt you would see small gains in gold but you'd be better off with Dollars or Sterling.

But like everything in life nothing is certain and I just got wiped off the market today so no more trading for me:o. Luckily the blow was hugely softened by the profit I made in gold.
My hope now is in the next year my physical will pop its head back up above 30 euro before I have to pay the yearly fee for holding it in the vault.

while dollars might be the big winner , ive been burned before while currency speculating , even gold falls back in dollar terms , a euro calamity will see the single currency weaken , perhaps to parity with the dollar , this will see gold ( in euro ) go higher , i.e , if gold went from 1700 dollars back to 1400 dollars but the euro went to parity with the dollar , 1400 euro an ounce would still be higher than it is now

eire2009

irishh_bob wrote: »

while dollars might be the big winner , Ive been burned before while currency speculating , even gold falls back in dollar terms , a euro calamity will see the single currency weaken , perhaps to parity with the dollar , this will see gold ( in euro ) go higher , i.e , if gold went from 1700 dollars back to 1400 dollars but the euro went to parity with the dollar , 1400 euro an ounce would still be higher than it is now

You would expect that but this is not the case as the majority of trades are done on the NY Comex, Chicago Mercantile Exchange, NY Globex etc, in Dollars. Any strengthening of the Dollar reduces the majority of the demand from these markets which reduces the price globally in every currency.

But obviously if the euro was worth nothing in the morning gold would have appreciated against the euro. But on a demand and supply curve one must assume a reduction in price globally in all currencies if the Dollar rallies to parity with the euro.

irishh_bob

eire2009 wrote: »

You would expect that but this is not the case as the majority of trades are done on the NY Comex, Chicago Mercantile Exchange, NY Globex etc, in Dollars. Any strengthening of the Dollar reduces the majority of the demand from these markets which reduces the price globally in every currency.

But obviously if the euro was worth nothing in the morning gold would have appreciated against the euro. But on a demand and supply curve one must assume a reduction in price globally in all currencies if the Dollar rallies to parity with the euro.

id still perfer be in gold than cash ( in this country ) if the euro broke up or stocks for that matter

The Outside Agency

silver is getting killed right now...id say there are a lot of angry people out there who ploughed their earnings into buying physical silver on advice from max keiser and can't get rid of it now.

that said, if it went back to 10 euro an ounce, i'd snap some up.

eire2009

nivekd wrote: »

silver is getting killed right now...id say there are a lot of angry people out there who ploughed their earnings into buying physical silver on advice from max keiser and can't get rid of it now.

that said, if it went back to 10 euro an ounce, I'd snap some up.

Id wait till it goes back up to get rid of it, nothings changed somebody like JPM with a large holding is liquidating.

ixus

I really hope people on here haven't been hurt badly on this trade.

Eire, JPM are rumoured to be heavily short silver. The liquidation going on at the moment is across all assets and is a flight to the dollar.

The picture below is not intended to take the piss out of anyone but is a pretty good interpretation of what can happen to an investor/trader when they put the blinkers on.



Cash is king in the present situation. Stay safe.

Low Energy Eng

Margin hike;

WSJ wrote:

Exchange operator CME Group Inc. (CME) Friday said it would raise the collateral requirements for trading in gold, copper, and silver futures. Each of the metals plunged in trading this week.

LINK

MasterSun

irishh_bob wrote: »

id still perfer be in gold than cash ( in this country ) if the euro broke up or stocks for that matter

Gold spot price in the last 30 days (USD)
see how volatile gold can be




http://www.goldprice.org/spot-gold.html

waken

Trading without stop losses can be a very dangerous business. That said I wouldent be at all surprised to see a retrace to 35 level in the near future.

Waken

mickman

waken wrote: »

Trading without stop losses can be a very dangerous business. That said I wouldent be at all surprised to see a retrace to 35 level in the near future.

Waken

35 long gone ;-)

nasty selloff in the metals indeed. in my opinion this is setting up to be the buying opportunity of a life time

snowstreams

mickman wrote: »

35 long gone ;-)

nasty selloff in the metals indeed. in my opinion this is setting up to be the buying opportunity of a life time

How low would gold or silver really have to go to become "the buying opportunity" your talking about?
Would gold have to drop back to about 1200$ and silver maybe 25$?

pacquiao

ixus wrote: »

I really hope people on here haven't been hurt badly on this trade.

Eire, JPM are rumoured to be heavily short silver. The liquidation going on at the moment is across all assets and is a flight to the dollar.

The picture below is not intended to take the piss out of anyone but is a pretty good interpretation of what can happen to an investor/trader when they put the blinkers on.



Cash is king in the present situation. Stay safe.

you do know that the recession hasn't even began?
silver and gold are going to sky rocket in the next few weeks.
they are only buying time, everything as we know it, is finished.

irishh_bob

pacquiao wrote: »

you do know that the recession hasn't even began?
silver and gold are going to sky rocket in the next few weeks.
they are only buying time, everything as we know it, is finished.

rescessions hurt silver in the way they dont hurt gold

FISMA

irishh_bob wrote: »

rescessions hurt silver in the way they dont hurt gold

Irish Bob,
Did you catch today's action state side? Anyone holding Gold should be impressed.

When was the last time the DOW slid, the dollar climbed, AND gold rallied? Very bullish indicator for Goldies.

The technical indicators suggest that we'll test the $1800 high again. Keep that $1585 low side test on your radar.

I think that the ECB has to come out with its own Quantitative Easing (aka printing money) soon. That will make buying gold from Euro's or sterling very attractive.

I still think there's room for people to get into something like the GLD for a double digit % return this year.

ixus wrote: »

The liquidation going on at the moment is across all assets and is a flight to the dollar.

True, which is what made today so bullish for Goldies. If you can weather any Gold pullbacks, it will not be long before people remember how much printing is going on at the US mint. The dollar isn't stronger, the Euro is weaker.

snowstreams wrote: »

How low would gold or silver really have to go to become "the buying opportunity" your talking about?
Would gold have to drop back to about 1200$ and silver maybe 25$?

I think we're there today SnowStreams.

If you are looking to get in, I would start to nibble at a position. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? I always prefer to buy on the way up, don't worry about missing the bottom(s).

Again, I am looking to $2000 by year's end for physical gold. That puts gives the GLD a $30-40 move from here? Not bad...

So what do ye all think will happen if China allows its currency to strenghten? Seems like it is actually in their best interest now.

Happy investing!

eire2009

Well as I said I sold the gold because I had too much invested in the physical, I started to worry about how quickly my bullion company would buy it back if it started freefalling. Apmex will suspend orders over the weekend if they are sure of a massive up swing Monday, I’m presuming they`d suspend buy backs if they were sure of the opposite. Their augment would be its too hard to determine the true price as the market is too volatile at the moment please try again later. Not much use if your watching it crash.

Its still well up from what I paid for it and blow what I sold at.

I only have 3kg of silver which its down 400 euro atm, I lost a K on paper silver leveraged (I was stubborn didn't want to take any hit ha), Over all its balanced out so far.

Apart from the risk, I don’t think the few k to be made for the average investor in the next few months is worth the stress.

General General

digme wrote: »

Last time to buy silver at around 30 an ounce. It has stayed over 40 dollars now for a fair few days last week and has done so again yesterday.When it breaks 50 in the coming weeks there is no going back.
If you're looking for an investment, put a small bit into silver.

waken wrote: »

Eire
Its down to 37 at the moment and if it closes below 37.6 it may drop all the way to 34 before it hits its next support area.

Waken

waken wrote: »

It just hit 34.2 today and its comming down to a strong support level at around 33.3/33.7. all of which lines up with the 50 EMA on the weekly chart. Hopefully we will see a return to positive territory soon.

Waken

waken wrote: »

Trading without stop losses can be a very dangerous business. That said I wouldent be at all surprised to see a retrace to 35 level in the near future.

Waken

Silver's currently going for a 30-30.50 shpot.

eire2009

General General wrote: »

Silver's currently going for a 30-30.50 shpot.

Ive only got physical now which I bought and will sell in euros no added currency risk. Which didn't help.

Its easy to give advice, its hard to make decisions. If anyone was that confident it was going from $43 to $26 in a month they would have shorted it.

Its hard to make money on a stock that volatile when leveraged with a small stop loss, my stop loss was a 1000 euro.

pirelli

irishh_bob wrote: »

rescessions hurt silver in the way they dont hurt gold

Silver is used in industrial applications and is tied into manufacturing. A recession has a negative effect on manufacturing and reduces the demand for silver.

Silver however has much going for it. It is being used now in Food packaging to preserve and give the food a fresher look. Food will weather any most any recession. People have to eat.

irishh_bob

pirelli wrote: »

Silver is used in industrial applications and is tied into manufacturing. A recession has a negative effect on manufacturing and reduces the demand for silver.

Silver however has much going for it. It is being used now in Food packaging to preserve and give the food a fresher look. Food will weather any most any recession. People have to eat.

the basic ingredients of food - soft commodities always suffer in a rescession , beit wheat , organge juice , coffee , barley , cattle , pork , all suffer

pirelli

irishh_bob wrote: »

the basic ingredients of food - soft commodities always suffer in a rescession , beit wheat , organge juice , coffee , barley , cattle , pork , all suffer

Spelling seems to suffer in a recession also

That is a good point Irish_bob and wheat was sky high in 2007 as were a few other commodities. There would be a gentle decline and shifts in consumer food and product choices but would you not think that basic food packaging would be relatively stable regardless of market fluctuations. It would take a war to disrupt the food trade wouldn't it.


When the market collapses like in 2009 everything takes a hit including gold and silver making the point mute ...and there will be reduced demand for pricey commodities in a recession but basic packaged food will always be in demand.

People gotta eat just as especially in a bear or bull market. Try telling your 2 children that they are no getting their cornflakes because there is a bear market; remember it's the same box of cornflakes at the same price consumed at the same rate whether it's a bull or bear market regardless of the market price of corn.

SyntonFenix

Look at the chart for the following coin

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/lunar_dragon_drache_2012_1oz_silver.html

nino1

what would the best commodity be to invest in for a person just happy for their investment to hold it's value in the event of a euro collapse?

Or would you be better off converting to sterling or US dollar?

I only have €20,000 savings but i'm worried about it being wiped out.

Techyo

SyntonFenix thats a big increase in value! But why such an increase in price when the spot price is still around the 24 euro??

turbobaby

Because the criminals in the US can manipulate the paper price and not so much the physical price.

Cannot wait for a Comex default!

Hootanany

SyntonFenix wrote: »

Look at the chart for the following coin

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/lunar_dragon_drache_2012_1oz_silver.html

They have sold their quota