Swap Messi and Ronaldo

parc

Here's a useless will never happen discussion but an interesting one I think

Swap Messi with Ronaldo. Would Barcelona still dominate and would the best player in the world be Ronaldo?

20 Times 20 Times

Who is Rondado???

parc

...sh1te

this is me

Mr.Crinklewood

Little Pea wrote: »

Who is Rondado???

A nickname the young players gave Ron Atkinson??

That_Guy

Why am I imagining a "Wife Swap" scenario here?

parc

it's one reality shows that I'd actually watch

Professional Griefer

That_Guy wrote: »

Why am I imagining a "Wife Swap" scenario here?

What a show!

Anyways, would Ronaldo not be too greedy to play in the Barca side?

Turtyturd

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

What a show!

Anyways, would Ronaldo not be too greedy to play in the Barca side?

You're just confusing things bringing him into it.

rossie1977

parc wrote: »

Would Barcelona still dominate

yes probably

and would the best player in the world be Ronaldo?

no, he wouldn't even be best player on barca team let alone the world

craggles

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

What a show!

Anyways, would Ronaldo not be too greedy to play in the Barca side?

Yes. Too greedy, petulant and self centred to play for Barca. Comparing their assists is interesting, Messi had more than twice the amount he had last season.

Real Madrid is the perfect club for him.

Neil3030

I'd love to see Emile Heskey being swapped with Messi.

killwill

rossie1977 wrote: »

yes probably



no, he wouldn't even be best player on barca team let alone the world

He wouldn't dive enough either IMO. Or wave imaginary yellow cards at the ref!!!!!

parc

rossie1977 wrote: »

yes probably

re: would barca still dominate?

I don't mean in possession terms. I've no doubt they would, but would they dominate la liga as much? Would Messi transfer that exact same killer edge he has to Real?

imo, no. Seing as a large number of the barca team have been playing with each other since they were 13 years old

I suppose the question I'm asking is. Would barca be as stong with Ronaldo instead of messi? (imo no). And would messi play as well for Real? (imo yes, but maybe not quite as good as he doesn't have that telepathic link he seems to have with barca players)

Neil3030

parc wrote: »

re: would barca still dominate?

I don't mean in possession terms. I've no doubt they would, but would they dominate la liga as much? Would Messi transfer that killer edge to Real?

imo, no. Seing as a large number of the barca team have been playing with each other since they were 13 years old

I suppose the question I'm asking is. Would barca be as stong with Ronaldo instead of messi? (imo no). And would messi play as well for Real? (imo yes, but maybe not quite as good as he doesn't have that telepathic link he seems to have with barca players)

Ronaldo wasn't raised and developed in the Barcelona ethos and shows nothing that he'd transfer to that ethos (a la Villa). That said, you never know.

One thing's for sure, had Ronaldo have joined Barca at the same age that Messi did, one could only imagine the player he could have become.

parc

Neil3030 wrote: »

One thing's for sure, had Ronaldo have joined Barca at the same age that Messi did, one could only imagine the player he could have become.

yeah especially if they gave him hormone injections aswell. The fooker would be about 9ft now

Peyton Manning

Rondado sounds like the pro evo version of Ronaldo

A Primal Nut

Messi is the best player in the world when his team desperately need a goal. Ronaldo is the best player in the world when his team are already winning three or four nil. Compare Messi's four goals against Arsenal when his team were 3-2 down on aggregate, with Ronaldo's hat-trick in a 7-0 win over Malaga, or 6-0 win over Zaragoza. His best performance in the world cup was the second half against North Korea, when his team were already winning 2-0.

Ronaldo is as useful as tits on a bull when his team are losing.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Messi is the best player in the world when his team desperately need a goal. Ronaldo is the best player in the world when his team are already winning three or four nil. Compare Messi's four goals against Arsenal when his team were 3-2 down on aggregate, with Ronaldo's hat-trick in a 7-0 win over Malaga, or 6-0 win over Zaragoza. His best performance in the world cup was the second half against North Korea, when his team were already winning 2-0.

Ronaldo is as useful as tits on a bull when his team are losing.

Diabhal Beag

A great TV show in the making (Yo Setanta!!!)

Karl Sheppard is a LOI player for the town of Shamrock. He longs to live the life of a world class player and before he goes to bed one night he wishes to be a Champion's League calibre player.

The next day his world is turned upside when he's swapped with Lionel Messi. How will our Karl cope with the pressure? How will Messi perform on rainy Friday nights in Galway? Stay tuned..................................................................

CorkMan

Why would Ronaldo join Barcelona? He is already at the most illustrious club in Football history and he has already proved he is the best in the world.

jaykay74

CorkMan wrote: »

Why would Ronaldo join Barcelona?

To add to the trophies of note he won at Manchester United. Hasn't won a league championship or European trophy since as far as I can recall Goalscoring awards don't mean much.

Turtyturd

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'd love to see Emile Heskey being swapped with Messi.

Prefer to see Rondado swapped with Charlie Adams myself.

parc

jaykay74 wrote: »

To add to the trophies of note he won at Manchester United. Hasn't won a league championship or European trophy since as far as I can recall Goalscoring awards don't mean much.

ronaldo's career has taken a dip since he left united. hasn't won a domestic league or a champions league since. all he has is a copa del rey, the spanish version of the FA cup

a bit like...cesc. how he was at arsenal. maybe ronaldo will return to his old club and and win 2 trophies in his first two games. back to winning ways, like he never left.

Johner

parc wrote: »

ronaldo's career has taken a dip since he left united. hasn't won a domestic league or a champions league since. all he has is a copa del rey, the spanish version of the FA cup

a bit like...cesc. how he was at arsenal. maybe ronaldo will return to his old club and and win 2 trophies in his first two games. back to winning ways, like he never left.

Ronaldo is a much better player now at Madrid than he was United.. 90 goals in 92 games.

parc

Johner wrote: »

Ronaldo is a much better player now at Madrid than he was United.. 90 goals in 92 games.

yeah he has more goals. you could argue that it's easier to score in spain than it is in England. I don't know how true that is but he probably is getting better as he is coming into his peak

...but the fact is, he bought a bigger medal cabinet for his house when he was in Manchester, and was actually thinking about getting an extension to it. But since he has moved to Madrid plans for that are on hold, as he's just not filling it up as much as he did when he was at United.

jaykay74

Johner wrote: »

Ronaldo is a much better player now at Madrid than he was United.. 90 goals in 92 games.

True, but the question was why would he leave Madrid not is he better now which is not really open to question.

A Primal Nut

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Messi is the best player in the world when his team desperately need a goal. Ronaldo is the best player in the world when his team are already winning three or four nil. Compare Messi's four goals against Arsenal when his team were 3-2 down on aggregate, with Ronaldo's hat-trick in a 7-0 win over Malaga, or 6-0 win over Zaragoza. His best performance in the world cup was the second half against North Korea, when his team were already winning 2-0.

Ronaldo is as useful as tits on a bull when his team are losing.

How wrong. You remember the game against Villa where Macheda scored the winner no? Ronaldo scored twice that and guess what we were losing at the time. I'm sure they're countless other examples but I couldn't be really arsed because you gotta love idiotic anti-Ronaldo bias.

Johner

parc wrote: »

yeah he has more goals. you could argue that it's easier to score in spain than it is in England. I don't know how true that is but he probably is getting better as he is coming into his peak

...but the fact is, he bought a bigger medal cabinet for his house when he was in Manchester, and was actually thinking about getting an extension to it. But since he has moved to Madrid plans for that are on hold, as he's just not filling it up as much as he did when he was at United.

jaykay74 wrote: »

True, but the question was why would he leave Madrid not is he better now which is not really open to question.

As good as Barca are Madrid have an outstanding chance this year of winning the league imo.

AgileMyth

CorkMan wrote: »

Why would Ronaldo join Barcelona?

To win trophies whilst playing in one of history's greatest teams I'd imagine.

CorkMan wrote: »

He is already at the most illustrious club in Football history

Past glories should mean nothing to a man who is capable of winning it all himself.

CorkMan wrote: »

he has already proved he is the best in the world

Sorry but no, just no. He has proven himself a top quality footballer, comparable with some of the greats. Best in the world? Messi by a distance I'm afraid.

CorkMan

AgileMyth wrote: »

Sorry but no, just no. He has proven himself a top quality footballer, comparable with some of the greats. Best in the world? Messi by a distance I'm afraid.

I have my own seat and my own selection pad, just like at the CL draw. I press C.Ronaldo. It is obvious Barca winning the CL and La Liga helped with the votes. If Real Madrid won La Liga and C.Ronaldo popped up with 1/2 goals on the way to a CL trophy, it is obvious he would have got more votes.

I mean, Xavi got more votes than C.Ronaldo!! I'm sorry but C.Ronaldo got 40 goals in the league last year, 53 in 54 in total. When the Brazilian Ronaldo got 47 goals in 49 games for Barca the FIFA World Player of the Year Award was thrown at him.

parc wrote: »

yeah he has more goals. you could argue that it's easier to score in spain than it is in England. I don't know how true that is but he probably is getting better as he is coming into his peak

The season he got 42 goals he scored 31 goals in 34 games in the league! Plus he has gotten better with time since then. I'd say if he was still a Man United he would have the same goal ratio as he does now.

parc

AgileMyth wrote: »

Sorry but no, just no. He has proven himself a top quality footballer, comparable with some of the greats. Best in the world? Messi by a distance I'm afraid.

tbf I think he deserved it in 2009 so technically he has proved himself as best in the world..for a brief period.

I think messi is better but I'm not a ronaldo hater. to quote ray wilkins verbatim, whenever I see him play I think...

"My word, isn't he an impressive young man..."

A Primal Nut

peterswellman wrote: »

How wrong. You remember the game against Villa where Macheda scored the winner no? Ronaldo scored twice that and guess what we were losing at the time. I'm sure they're countless other examples but I couldn't be really arsed because you gotta love idiotic anti-Ronaldo bias.

I admit that Ferguson managed to put some fight into him but its not really there now.

To compare, Messi scored eleven Champions League goals last season, two of which were equalisers and four put Barcelona ahead. They included crucial goals against Arsenal, Real Madrid and Manchester United in the knockout stage.

On the other hand Ronaldo scored six, five of which were scored when Real Madrid were already winning, and only one which put them ahead - at home to Milan in the group stages.

Its not just because Messi plays in a better team - he came up with the goods when it really matters time and time again and therefore he is well deserving of European player of the year - regardless of how many hat-tricks Ronaldo scores against Malaga and Real Zaragoza; he tends to give up and get frustrated with his teammates when his team are struggling - we've all seen it particulary in the El Classico matches.

parc

I can't find the picture but I think it sums up the two players and their differences

In the picture it shows a wide view of the pitch Barca on the attack with Ronaldo standing in the final 3rd of Barca's side with his hands on his hips facing the crowd.

Obviously an attack has broken down and Barca are on the counter. You'd never see Messi do this imo.

It's so blatant it's almost as if it's photoshopped but I don't think it is. He's not even facing the ball. This part of his game should be the absolute easiest part to correct as all it comes down to is having a better attitude

A Primal Nut

CorkMan wrote: »

I have my own seat and my own selection pad, just like at the CL draw. I press C.Ronaldo. It is obvious Barca winning the CL and La Liga helped with the votes. If Real Madrid won La Liga and C.Ronaldo popped up with 1/2 goals on the way to a CL trophy, it is obvious he would have got more votes.

But he didn't score half the goals on the way to the CL trophy, or win La Liga - thats the point! And Messi's performance in big games vs Ronaldo was a major factor. In the Champions League semi-final, Messi scored twice in the first leg. Ronaldo did nothing. If Ronaldo has scored those two goals then sure he could have won best player; but he didn't.

You seem to think Messi is lucky because he plays in a better team who won the titles. But they are only the better team because he is playing for them and because he scored crucial goals in the knockout stages (against Manchester United, Real Madrid and Arsenal) without which Barcelona would not have won that competition. Ronaldo's only two goals in the knockout stages came after his team were already 3-0 up against Tottenham. The knockout stages of the Champions League is the most important factor in European Player of the Year IMO and Messi's contribution was far superior.

If Real Madrid had Messi and Barcelona had Ronaldo, I'm sure Real would have won that Champions League semi-final.

CorkMan

Ronaldo may have scored the majority of his goals when Real Madrid were ahead, but what does that prove? The team were ahead, but Ronaldo scored. La Liga last season was decided by the skin of a tooth. Matter of fact Madrid lost 2 easy matches after the supposed "Showdown" with Barca to "decide" who'd win the league. If Madrid won those 2 "easy" matches they would have got the league, cos Barca faltered after the Madrid match.

I agree with you about the Champions League knockout phase, but Real got to the semi-final, so what can you say for C.Ronaldo not scoring more goals in the knock out stage, they did get to the semi-final. If he score a goal every game/2 goals sometimes in the last 16 and the quarter final it would be said he scored when Madrid were ahead already. Messi look phenomenal in the CL semi-final last season, and he did make the difference, but Ronaldo broke the La Liga scoring record for a season, 40 goals. You can't deny that. He may not have made the difference in the CL semi-final, but look at the whole season.

#15

I think Barca would be slightly worse, but the difference wouldn't be so significant as to have prevented them from winning the trophies that they have.
Without Messi, that group of Barca players have pretty much owned the international scene the last few years. The addition of Ronaldo to that Messi-less group would still be a dominant team.

On the Ronaldo thing - I think he is less of a team player now (not that it was ever a major strength of his anyway) and is no longer the type of player that beats a man and sets the defence scrambling to cover. His stats are more impressive than his Utd days, but that's not always the best measure of a player's impact. He also compares unfavourably to Messi in crunch time IMO, but that's partly because of their differing styles of play. Some of the claims made about his tendency to go missing in crunch time have been wildly exaggerated though.

A Primal Nut

Ronaldo's 40 goals in La Liga is amazing, but so is Messi's 12 goals in the Champions League. They both scored 53 goals in all competitions which is really incredible, and of course they both deserve credit. Meanwhile, Messi got 24 assists to Ronaldo's 14.

Goalscoring-wise its very close. The difference is that more of Messi's goals mattered! Messi was the difference between Barcelona winning the Champions League and not winning it. It's not a simple matter he got lucky that he happened to play with the winning side and that's why Messi won the best player in Europe, like some people are suggesting. He made the difference in three knockout ties against Arsenal, Real and Man Utd. Barcelona have a great team but without Messi I don't think they could have won all those ties.

Ronaldo was the difference in the Copa del Ray - although he didn't play very well I'll give him credit for the winning goal. But its still the only goal from open play he has scored in El Classico matches. The Champions League is a vastly superior competition and Messi made the difference in three knockout ties.

In La Liga, I'm sure you will find Messi scored more important goals than Ronaldo and thats why Barcelona won the league.

The 2008-09 final was another time Messi got one over Ronaldo. It can't be all put down to Messi playing for a better team.

Ronaldo is one of the best players in the world, but Messi is another level. He scores so many important goals for his team. I have no doubt if Messi and Ronaldo were swapped, Real Madrid would become the dominant team.

Wolflikeme

I think we've seen what happens Messi when he's taken out of the Barca side - look at what he's done in an Argentina shirt - fcuk all.

Ronaldo on the other hand is captain of his country, by far they're most influential player (for obvious reasons) and has scored many important goals for an arguably lesser side that Argentina.

parc

Wolflikeme wrote: »

I think we've seen what happens Messi when he's taken out of the Barca side - look at what he's done in an Argentina shirt - fcuk all.

Ronaldo on the other hand is captain of his country, by far they're most influential player (for obvious reasons) and has scored many important goals for an arguably lesser side that Argentina.

I have to laugh when I read stuff like this. Messi is by far Argentina's best player. I remember watching a game a while ago against Bolivia and he could have had about 7 assists if Higuain could hit the broad side of a barn

With Argentina he isn't as free. He has to play the Messi/Iniesta/Xavi role all in one so he doesn't score as much.

Also Ronaldo scored one goal at the world cup in a 7-0 win iirc. He hasn't really lit up the international stage.

Messi's so called failings with Argentina is down to the manager and tatics. It's a bit of a joke that they can't use a player like Messi more effectively

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Wolflikeme wrote: »

I think we've seen what happens Messi when he's taken out of the Barca side - look at what he's done in an Argentina shirt - fcuk all.

Ronaldo on the other hand is captain of his country, by far they're most influential player (for obvious reasons) and has scored many important goals for an arguably lesser side that Argentina.

Messi was outstanding in the Copa América, he was the fulcrum of an otherwise disappointing Argentina side. He is also the captain, which further highlights the ignorance of your post.

Also, what exactly has Ronaldo done for his country? Hasn't won anything afaik, Messi on the other hand has delivered an Olympic Gold medal.

Bodhisopha

Messi is the ultimate big game player. Ronaldo, very hit and miss when needed. More miss, i'd say.

I can't remember exactly what the original question was but i'm going to say no. Ronaldo would mess with Barca's flow, in much the same way Ibra did. They'd still be pretty damn good, but not nearly as amazing as they are with Messi.

CorkMan

parc wrote: »

I have to laugh when I read stuff like this. Messi is by far Argentina's best player. I remember watching a game a while ago against Bolivia and he could have had about 7 assists if Higuain could hit the broad side of a barn

With Argentina he isn't as free. He has to play the Messi/Iniesta/Xavi role all in one so he doesn't score as much.

Also Ronaldo scored one goal at the world cup in a 7-0 win iirc. He hasn't really lit up the international stage.

Messi's so called failings with Argentina is down to the manager and tatics. It's a bit of a joke that they can't use a player like Messi more effectively

That's the thing, he doesn't have Xavi and Iniesta superbly aiding his goalscoring chances. I wonder if Xavi and Iniesta were not there would Messi play more in the position he does for Argentina? ie 80% midfielder and 20% forward.

It is entirely unpredictable how C.Ronaldo would fit into the Barca side. would he play the left wing or the right wing, or a striker? If he played the left wing would Iniesta always be in the middle, or what would his position be? etc

EDIT: Plus could Messi do it on a rainy Wednesday night in Stoke? SMH @ the future post saying this hasn't been mentioned yet.

tolosenc

No mention of rainy Wednesday nights in the Brittania yet? I'm shocked.

Ronaldo is like Zidane. Put him in a team and the team will be great. Messi has shown that he needs to have a great team around him to be great.

Ronaldo has Ozil there at Real to play off, and for me, that's a more potent combo that Messi and Xavi.

Leiva

Messi FTW

Davaeo09

If Messi were to go to Madrid, I think Madrid would become the strongest team in the world.

If Ronaldo were to go in the opposite direction I believe Barca would struggle to match their accolades over the past few seasons.

Messi is such a consistent performer. What he does, he does it every day. Weather it be on the training pitch, at home with friends, on a cold night in Russia, on a late night league match against our city rivals, on 13 different occasions against our biggest rivals, and against ANY opposition that stands between Barca and a trophy with Inter being the one and only exception.

Ronaldo tends to go missing when it truly counts.
Messi is the finished product, but what makes him better than Ronaldo? Messi's hunger to do it, for himself, for his team mates, for Barca and for Pep.

eZe^

Even Ronaldo himself has admitted that at the moment Messi is the best player in the world.

Davaeo09

tolosenc wrote: »

No mention of rainy Wednesday nights in the Brittania yet? I'm shocked.

Ronaldo is like Zidane. Put him in a team and the team will be great. Messi has shown that he needs to have a great team around him to be great.

Ronaldo has Ozil there at Real to play off, and for me, that's a more potent combo that Messi and Xavi.

Absurd statement, can you please explain your standing here? Because I just don't see it. Barca won La Liga, and the Champions league. Seeing of opposition such as Madrid, (on more than one occasion ) Arsenal, and Manchester United. The Xavi/Messi(/Iniesta) effect is a proven trophy winner.

Where as, between Ozil's eye for assists, and Ronaldo's clinical finishing, Madrid finished second in La liga again... were knocked out of the champions league by the one club they are trying so hard to catch.

It is only now that Madrid are almost equal to Barca.. and the difference like many have said already is Messi. If people cannot see that then I really don't see the point in why you bother to come to these forums.

A Primal Nut

CorkMan wrote: »

That's the thing, he doesn't have Xavi and Iniesta superbly aiding his goalscoring chances. I wonder if Xavi and Iniesta were not there would Messi play more in the position he does for Argentina? ie 80% midfielder and 20% forward.

It is entirely unpredictable how C.Ronaldo would fit into the Barca side. would he play the left wing or the right wing, or a striker? If he played the left wing would Iniesta always be in the middle, or what would his position be? etc

EDIT: Plus could Messi do it on a rainy Wednesday night in Stoke? SMH @ the future post saying this hasn't been mentioned yet.

Of course Messi could do it on a rainy Wednesday night in Stoke. He's scored 53 goals last season against all kinds of opposition in all kinds of games. Not that being able to do it against Stoke is the measure of a great player - being able to do it in the El Classico and Champions League knockout stages is the mark of a great player. Messi can do it in those games all the time, Ronaldo hasn't done if for Real Madrid.

I agree though, Ronaldo probably is more effective against teams like Stoke - gives him the opportunity to score a hat-trick, take the match ball and walk off a hero, against a team Real would have beaten without him anyway. Not sure how that makes him a better player than Messi who can score 4 goals against Arsenal in a CL quarter final or two against Real in a CL semi-final.

Ronaldo was not signed for games against weaker teams, he was signed for games against Barcelona and CL knockout stages against teams like Lyon; so far he hasn't delivered as well as Messi. Messi has scored 13 goals in his career in El Classico matches; including 7 since Ronaldo has joined. Ronaldo has scored 3 and only one (from a penalty) in the two big competitions.

tolosenc wrote: »

No mention of rainy Wednesday nights in the Brittania yet? I'm shocked.

Ronaldo is like Zidane. Put him in a team and the team will be great. Messi has shown that he needs to have a great team around him to be great.

Ronaldo has Ozil there at Real to play off, and for me, that's a more potent combo that Messi and Xavi.

How has Messi shown he needs to have a great team around him to be great? Many of his goals are individual efforts; as someone said earlier he is very affective for Argentina, but he is playing midfield so he sets up chances rather than scoring. Anyway Argentina have an amazing team - Aguero, Tevez, Higuain, Di Maria - he has great players around him at Argentina just as he does at Barcelona, so thats not the reason.

Xavi and Messi have had the better of Ozil and Ronaldo most of the times they have played against each other so far, not sure how you can say Ozil and Ronaldo are more potent. They certainly weren't more potent when they were being hammered 5-0 in the league last season or 2-0 in the Champions League.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I've rarely seen Ronaldo take control of a big game the way Messi does on such a regular basis. He's still an excellent player, but he's not a patch on Messi.

killwill

Davaeo09 wrote: »

Absurd statement, can you please explain your standing here? Because I just don't see it. Barca won La Liga, and the Champions league. Seeing of opposition such as Madrid, (on more than one occasion ) Arsenal, and Manchester United. The Xavi/Messi(/Iniesta) effect is a proven trophy winner.

Where as, between Ozil's eye for assists, and Ronaldo's clinical finishing, Madrid finished second in La liga again... were knocked out of the champions league by the one club they are trying so hard to catch.

It is only now that Madrid are almost equal to Barca.. and the difference like many have said already is Messi. If people cannot see that then I really don't see the point in why you bother to come to these forums.

I have to disagree with this, yes Messi is the best player in the world but only just, the difference between RM and Barca right now are the two player behind Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. The 2 single most technical players to grace football over the last 15-20 years.(after Paul Scholes of course!!!!!)

CorkMan

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Of course Messi could do it on a rainy Wednesday night in Stoke. He's scored 53 goals last season against all kinds of opposition in all kinds of games. Not that being able to do it against Stoke is the measure of a great player - being able to do it in the El Classico and Champions League knockout stages is the mark of a great player. Messi can do it in those games all the time, Ronaldo hasn't done if for Real Madrid.

You failed to see that the Stoke comment was a joke :rolleyes: The Stoke comment has been a long running parody. But what about Ronaldo scoring the winner in the Copa Del Rey? He didn't produce it then? Of course ye'll go on about the CDR not being a major trophy but if Barca won it ye'd be blowing yer horn, saying it gives more credibility to Barca being "Tha GREATEST SIDE EVAR!!!!1". He scored in the 2nd leg of the Supercup recently, if Van Nistelrooy got that goal people would congratulate his instinctual poaching ability.

Ronaldo was not signed for games against weaker teams, he was signed for games against Barcelona and CL knockout stages against teams like Lyon; so far he hasn't delivered as well as Messi. Messi has scored 13 goals in his career in El Classico matches; including 7 since Ronaldo has joined. Ronaldo has scored 3 and only one (from a penalty) in the two big competitions.



How has Messi shown he needs to have a great team around him to be great? Many of his goals are individual efforts; as someone said earlier he is very affective for Argentina, but he is playing midfield so he sets up chances rather than scoring. Anyway Argentina have an amazing team - Aguero, Tevez, Higuain, Di Maria - he has great players around him at Argentina just as he does at Barcelona, so thats not the reason.

Xavi and Messi have had the better of Ozil and Ronaldo most of the times they have played against each other so far, not sure how you can say Ozil and Ronaldo are more potent. They certainly weren't more potent when they were being hammered 5-0 in the league last season or 2-0 in the Champions League.

Well Madrid won the CDR, they drawed at home and the game in the league was a draw. So out of the 4 games Madrid won 1 (including a trophy) Barca 1 and there were 2 draws. Not exactly a momentous gap now, eh? Not to mention the Supercup was 4-4 up until the 87th minute of the 2nd leg.

BTW you can't compare Argentina to Spain ATM, Spain are way better IMO. The midfield duo of Xavi/Iniesta were momentous in guiding Spain to Euro 2008 and the World Cup 2010. Xavi and Iniesta are no doubt aiding Messi immensely.