Claude Butler Repair

skinthegoat

This is a fairly open-ended request for help, which somebody might find time to answer at their leisure. I don't do a huge amount of miles, and have owned a Claude Butler 'Mythos' which I got as a present about 15 years ago. I have been a bad boy and while I keep the drive mech well oiled, I don't clean it. The result is that the centre ring of my chainset is in an awful state, worn very badly and slipping under pressure. Now the, my local bike shop are quoting me around Eu140 to replace the triple chainset, chain and 7-speed cassette. I'm an OAP and don't want to spend that amount: I'd prefer to buy the parts and the tools, which I'd see as an investment. I understand that I'd need the chainset, chain, cassette, chainset removal tool, chain whip, and cassette tool, all of which I'd like to source on eBay or possibly Chainreaction. My difficulty is that I'm not sure about sizes. For example, when the say 170mm crankshaft are they measuring centre-of-hole to centre-of-hole? Does the chainset always come with cranks attached, or can I re-use the existing ones? My (cotterless) cranks are held on by what appears to be a 14mm bolt, though it could be 9/16". The chainset at present is labled SR Suntour XR17. What on earth is SRAM? I'm sorry if this sounds confused - but I am! Oy yes, and I promise to be kinder to my bike in future, and to invest in some chain-cleaning gear. Any recommendations on cheap but reliable cleaners and lubricants. I currently use car engine oil, since I refuse to pay Eu20 a litre for 3-in-1. Many thanks in anticipation to anyone kind enough to respond.

HivemindXX

I'm afraid I don't have any specific help for you only two comments:

First, I think you've done pretty well not to have to replace those components until now. In my experience they wear out pretty regularly.

Secondly, if you are in Dublin consider dropping in to Rothar in Phibsboro and talking to them. They offer a service (which I've not used personally) where you can use their workshop and tools for an hourly fee. The tools you'd need add up to a lot, this should be a lot cheaper and you should be able to get advice from a mechanic if you can't figure something out.

http://www.rothar.ie/fix_your_own_bike.htm

bax4556

140euro doesnt seem to be too far off the mark for supply and fit of parts by a professional mechanic

funkyjebus

+1 on rothar, they should be able to sort you out for cheap.

Sram is a manufacture of cycling drivetrains (gears) just like shimano or suntour.
Im not sure sram do 7 speed if thats what the shop was recommending, so they may have been upgrading you to a higher speed (8 perhaps) and also replacing the chain and cassette, which will probably need to be done as well if you want the bike to run smooth.

I have an old chainset (that I'm pretty sure is 7 speed) that I just took of an old dawes and thats got some life left in it, its yours for free if you want it.

As far as crank arm length goes, its measured from centre of to centre of both bolts/holes. A chainset will normally come with chainrings and cranks making a complete chainset. You can however buy replacement chainrings, although these may be hard to source, rothar would agian be a great place to try. Is the crank bolt hex /allen?

As far as cleaning goes, I use citrus degreaser from halfords (a tenner for 1 litre, which will last a while - especially with your record ) and some white lightning lube (about a tenner, again will last a good while and worth it - i get mine in cycleways on parnell st). I would not use car oil as it would be too thick and sticky and will only act as a dirt magnet.

Hope this helps

rflynnr

There is money to be saved by doing this yourself: a quick glance at chainreactioncycles suggests you could buy entry level (Shimano Alvio) chainsets, cassettes and a HG-50 chain for about €60. However, this would also mean replacing the bottom bracket (another €13 or so) as I don't think (though am open to correction) that you'll fit newer cranks onto a cotterless crank. You would need to establish that the frame will accept a standard bottom bracket, however.

If you were going to learn to do this yourself via the Rothar route (as suggested above), I think I'd also consider replacing the the derailleurs and gear shifters. The drivetrain (i.e. all those bits and pieces put together) is a very big element of your experience on the bike: having replaced all the other bits it'd be a shame not to enjoy a more seamless shifting experience.

skinthegoat

Many thanks to all who responded. That Rothar idea sounds great. Apart from the money, I'd really like to have a go at doing it myself. Thanks again.

Holyboy

I'll just throw in my two cents here, I think it would be a waste of money to buy all the tools needed for the job especially if you wont use them for another 15 years so the Rothar option sounds like a good one, there would be no need to replace shifters and mechs and no need to upgrade to more gears, your bike probably has a seven speed freewheel if it's from that era but of course it could be a cassette too, Rothar would have tools to remove either, the only thing that may be a slight problem is the chainset (I'm guessing it doesn't have replaceable chainrings so the whole thing will need to be replaced) suntour and others make chainsets with different "dish" which means the chainrings on the chainset are sometimes closer to the frame when fitted and sometimes further away so you will have to get a chainset that will keep your chain line right but it's not a big deal, some one that knows what they are doing will be able to advise you when they see it, but this kind of thing can turn into a problem when ordering parts online as you don't always know what your ordering or what they might send!

It would be easier to just let a shop do the whole thing but probably less fun:D


I think I kept all that uncontroversial;)

skinthegoat

Thanks Holyboy, that's exactly the kind of problem I was worried about: you know, little differences as between one brand and another, the different types and sizes of bottom bracket, what will fit with what, and so forth. The Rothar option sounds perfect, and I'll definitely give it a go. Unfortunately, my term starts this week (I went back to school since retiring), so it'll be next May before I get down down to it. Meanwhile, I try to use the lower and upper chainrings as much as I can! Thanks again to all who responded.

BostonB

Would you not buy a new bike cheaper than that repair? Doesn't sound like an expensive bike to begin with.

skinthegoat

Hold on there Holyboy, something just caught my eye in your post. What's the difference between a cassette and a 7spd freewheel? I thought the seven-cogwheel thingamajig on the back wheel was a cassette, and that all cassettes incorporated a freewheel mechanism (unless, of course, they were fixed-wheel. I was on one of them around 1953, stopped pedalling, and flew over the handlebars: never again!).

cython

skinthegoat wrote: »

Hold on there Holyboy, something just caught my eye in your post. What's the difference between a cassette and a 7spd freewheel? I thought the seven-cogwheel thingamajig on the back wheel was a cassette, and that all cassettes incorporated a freewheel mechanism (unless, of course, they were fixed-wheel. I was on one of them around 1953, stopped pedalling, and flew over the handlebars: never again!).

Nope, have a read of this for the difference between a cassette and freehub vs a freewheel. Basically a freewheel incorporates the ratchet mechanism that allows freewheeling, and threads onto the wheel, whereas a cassette is just a cluster of sprockets that slides onto a freehub, which is part of the wheel that incorporates the ratchet mechanism, and is then secured by a lockring.

Holyboy

skinthegoat wrote: »

Hold on there Holyboy, something just caught my eye in your post. What's the difference between a cassette and a 7spd freewheel? I thought the seven-cogwheel thingamajig on the back wheel was a cassette, and that all cassettes incorporated a freewheel mechanism (unless, of course, they were fixed-wheel. I was on one of them around 1953, stopped pedalling, and flew over the handlebars: never again!).

Older and cheaper bikes with 5,6,7 (8 too but not to a large extent) speed on the rear use a freewheel or 'block' that screws straight onto a thread thats is part of the hub, most new and more expensive bikes with 7,8,9,10,11 (well all 9,10,11 and nearly all 8) speed use a cassette system where the hub has a splined freehub body on it and the sprockets slide onto it, the only grey area really is 7 speed although there were 6speed cassettes(long gone now) and 8speed freewheels(still around but utter junk) it takes one tool to remove a freewheel and two to remove a cassette excluding spanners,check out Sheldon browns site,its very good and has pictures:)

As always some one else gets in just ahead, ha ha.

skinthegoat

I understand, and thanks to you both for the help. I'll get the wheel off when I've time and see what I've got. Glad you told me, though - I'd just assumed that these multi-cogwheel things were all cassettes. The last bike I had with gears had a Sturmey Archer three-speed, and cogwheels and chains that lasted a lifetime. This thing was, I think, a mountain bike when I got it. Don't quite know how you define a mountain bike, but it had those big chunky tyres on it, which I soon replaced with 'slicks,' as I believe they're called. You see? I'm getting some of the jargon already. Anyway, it had 3 on the front by seven on the back. Am I right in thinking that the chain is the important part? That if I keep an eye on it and replace it when it starts to show signs of stretching that the chainset and cassette/freewheel will be alright? Or are they all made of ****e and will wear out anyway?

seamus

skinthegoat wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that the chain is the important part? That if I keep an eye on it and replace it when it starts to show signs of stretching that the chainset and cassette/freewheel will be alright?

Yes and no. The chain and cassette wear into eachother to a certain extent. If you take care of your chain and replace it before it gets too worn (there's an article on Sheldon's site on how to measure this), then you don't have to replace the cassette at the same time.

However, most of time you will only be able to replace the chain twice before you need to replace the cassette too - i.e. you get 3 chains per cassette if you look after the chain properly.

The chainset is not quite so tempermental. You just replace this whenever it needs it. Most chainsets above the "cheap" level have replaceable rings so that you can just replace each ring as it wears.

In terms of whether your bike has a cassette or freewheel, it's actually hard to say. 15 years ago, 7 speed cassettes weren't rare and were appearing on entry-level bikes. Likewise for replaceable chainrings. If you upload a picture of the crankset and cassette we should be able to tell you what you need.

€140 for parts & labour sounds someway reasonable for local sourcing, but considering that you could buy a new chain, crankset and cassette for €50 online, you can save a good chunk of cash doing it yourself.