Back to the man with the red flag

niloc1951

While in Kenmare area of Kerry recently the KCC seems to have adopted the policy of leading traffic in convoy through roadworks by a person carrying a red flag, well TBH a person in a vehicle with an amber flashing light, who seems to be under instruction to travel at between 15 and 20 Kmph.

H&S gone mad or what !!, or is it JHR giving one of his 'boys' a job .

Seasoft

Came across the same arrangement in the USA a few years ago.

NFD100

And in South Africa too...

sentient_6

New Zealand for me!

L1011

The company doing a number of resurfacing/strengthening jobs on the N59 in Mayo over the past six months or so (something Quarries....) does this too. Road is rather narrow so its probably the only method of speed control through the works that's safe enough to what they want.

niloc1951

Obviously a requirement to control speed merchants through roadworks, but why such a step backwards into the mist of time.
The use of a SPECS average speed measuring system set to a safe speed would do the job effectively 24/7 for the duration of the roadworks.
Such systems are commonplace throughout the UK and I can vouch from personal observations appear to be 100% effective in controlling traffic speed through monitored sections of roadway.

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

Obviously a requirement to control speed merchants through roadworks, but why such a step backwards into the mist of time.
The use of a SPECS average speed measuring system set to a safe speed would do the job effectively 24/7 for the duration of the roadworks.
Such systems are commonplace throughout the UK and I can vouch from personal observations appear to be 100% effective in controlling traffic speed through monitored sections of roadway.

SPECS isn't in use in Ireland at all and as a result it'd be completely cost ineffective for a roadworks operator to get the system licenced, rent or buy the equipment, etc.

In the UK its only used over very long distance roadworks and does absolutely nothing to prevent non-UK registered drivers from breaking the limit - especially if there's more than one lane open for overtaking. A mate of mine in Birmingham refers to the outer lane of the permanently SPECS controlled M42 section as the "paddy and poles lane" for this reason...

Also setting any speed limit through works requires a temporary speed limit order or else its completely unenforceable; having a bloke in a van doesn't. If the works in Kerry are anything like the N59 ones where I've seen it happen they don't block any lanes overnight so there's no serious escalation in staffing costs for the bloke in the van either.

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

SPECS isn't in use in Ireland at all and as a result it'd be completely cost ineffective for a roadworks operator to get the system licenced, rent or buy the equipment, etc.

In the UK its only used over very long distance roadworks and does absolutely nothing to prevent non-UK registered drivers from breaking the limit - especially if there's more than one lane open for overtaking. A mate of mine in Birmingham refers to the outer lane of the permanently SPECS controlled M42 section as the "paddy and poles lane" for this reason...

Also setting any speed limit through works requires a temporary speed limit order or else its completely unenforceable; having a bloke in a van doesn't. If the works in Kerry are anything like the N59 ones where I've seen it happen they don't block any lanes overnight so there's no serious escalation in staffing costs for the bloke in the van either.

SPECS can be set for distances from a few hundred meters up.

If the signed speed limits are not legal does it not follow that the 'man in the van' can be overtaken and ignored if a passing importunity arises.

BTW 'pacemaking' is an excluded activity on most insurance policies.

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

SPECS can be set for distances from a few hundred meters up.

If the signed speed limits are not legal does it not follow that the 'man in the van' can be overtaken and ignored if a passing importunity arises.

BTW 'pacemaking' is an excluded activity on most insurance policies.

SPECS is not economical for short distances, in the case I've seen of this there wasn't a single overtaking chance possible as the lead car is bringing you through a one-way stretch and I'd be pretty bloody certain a building company is not using consumer car insurance!

Taking in to account that the works in question are covering a short distance *and moving every single day*, SPECS is completely unworkable as a suggestion.

marmurr1916

sentient_6 wrote: »

New Zealand for me!

Cornwall for me!

corktina

niloc1951 wrote: »

If the signed speed limits are not legal does it not follow that the 'man in the van' can be overtaken and ignored if a passing importunity arises.

.

no it doesnt follow. I imagine you could, if observed by a memebr of AGS, be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

101sean

It's common practice for roadworks where there's not enough width to protect the workforce, especially if a paver is being used. The type of protection is laid down in Chapter 8 of the TSM in the UK, I'm sure here it will similar. IIRC you should have a minimum of 1m between traffic and workers but this often isn't achievable, hence convoy working.

They used to use electric milk floats in the UK but it's usually a quad or a pickup these days. The lead vehicle usually pulls out of the way just past the lights at the opposite end.

Basically, drivers can't be trusted to obey the necessarily low advisory speed limits on narrow roadworks, if you've ever worked on the roads you'd appreciate it.