Éamon Ó Cuív would go to jail rather than pay septic tank charges

scholar007

Over the weekend, Fianna Fáil deputy leader Éamon Ó Cuív said he would go to jail rather than pay the proposed new charges for the inspection and maintenance of septic tanks.

Source:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0831/septictank.html

What these people say to ensure re-election.

Bankrupting the country! - Now that is something really worthwhile to go to jail for.

Mr.Micro

scholar007 wrote: »

Over the weekend, Fianna Fáil deputy leader Éamon Ó Cuív said he would go to jail rather than pay the proposed new charges for the inspection and maintenance of septic tanks.

Source:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0831/septictank.html

What these people say to ensure re-election.

Bankrupting the country! - Now that is something really worthwhile to go to jail for.

Its pure populism by the stupid FF has been, such a statement maybe sounds good in the Gaeltacht. Pity he could not stand up and be counted when his lot flushed our economy down the tubes. Anything for a vote and possibly the presidency. Regardless of his belief that such a charge is inequitable, ( he had no trouble voting to reduce the minimum wage, reduce payments to various needy people in the FF budget, how in equitable was all that, the total hypocrite), if its going to be the Law then it has to be complied with. What a tool.

Godge

scholar007 wrote: »

Over the weekend, Fianna Fáil deputy leader Éamon Ó Cuív said he would go to jail rather than pay the proposed new charges for the inspection and maintenance of septic tanks.

Source:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0831/septictank.html

What these people say to ensure re-election.

Bankrupting the country! - Now that is something really worthwhile to go to jail for.

apart from Ray Burke, we haven't been able to send a former FF minister to jail for corruption or for destroying the country. If a septic tank charge is the price to pay to put one of them in jail, I am sure that there are a lot of septic tank owners out there who won't mind.

anymore

How much did this man receive in terminations payments alone ?
And wasnt he the guy who wanted to force the unwieldly name ' Dingle O Daingean' down the throats of the people of Dingle whether they wanted it or not ?

wolfpawnat

I vote we call his bluff:D

scholar007

It's ironic how the very thing (septic tank) he takes a stand on and threatens to go to jail over, is something full of **** (Am I allowed say **** here?)

After Fianna Fails sojourn in "government" the whole country is in the ****!

sollar

The septic tank charge is a farce. They are talking about €300 for a man to look into the tank every year. Imagine that for a job.... €300 for gawking into a hole.

Fair enough an inspection is reasonable. But maybe once every 2 or 3 years and €150 a time max.

anymore

sollar wrote: »

The septic tank charge is a farce. They are talking about €300 for a man to look into the tank every year. Imagine that for a job.... €300 for gawking into a hole.

Fair enough an inspection is reasonable. But maybe once every 2 or 3 years and €150 a time max.

To be honest 40/50 a go is the max that should be charged - it is just another revenue raising scam. that said O Couv had no problem having ordianry citiens paying taxes to support every grant and other scams that were financing the gaeltachts, so he has no right to complain.

Son Of A Vidic

sollar wrote: »

The septic tank charge is a farce. They are talking about €300 for a man to look into the tank every year. Imagine that for a job.... €300 for gawking into a hole.

Fair enough an inspection is reasonable. But maybe once every 2 or 3 years and €150 a time max.

Is the charge of €300 per year you mention speculative? Because if it is, there's no way I'll be paying it.

Zubeneschamali

scholar007 wrote: »

Over the weekend, Fianna Fáil deputy leader Éamon Ó Cuív said he would go to jail rather than pay the proposed new charges for the inspection and maintenance of septic tanks.

I completely agree with him, I'd rather he went to jail, too.

thebman

I like this bit of the article:

It is also estimated that 9,000 people in the Dublin area may have to pay the charge and a public meeting on the issue is to be held in Balbriggan later this week.

So the meeting is next week and everything was fine when people in Dublin thought this would be a country person tax. Watch the hypocrisy emerge, all of a sudden this will become something that is needed according to many into an issue that effects them and so cannot be implemented.

Mr.Micro

Well one thing for sure there is money in s*it, at least for someone.

europa11

Young Dev really wants out of his house methinks.

First of all he's badgering away to retake the family chair in The Park, but now that Mee-Hawl has decided against running an Effin-Effer for President, O'Cuiv now wants to bunk in the 'Joy (or Portlaoise maybe - more martyrs in there!) on the all important issue of sh1tholes.

Well if any party knows their sh1tholes, his one does.

Save a bunk for Bertie whlie you're up doing your bit for the Republic of Roooral Iorrland, Eamon.

Callan57

europa11 wrote: »

Young Dev really wants out of his house methinks.

First of all he's badgering away to retake the family chair in The Park, but now that Mee-Hawl has decided against running an Effin-Effer for President, O'Cuiv now wants to bunk in the 'Joy (or Portlaoise maybe - more martyrs in there!) on the all important issue of sh1tholes.

Well if any party knows their sh1tholes, his one does.

Save a bunk for Bertie whlie you're up doing your bit for the Republic of Roooral Iorrland, Eamon.

They left the country covered in sh1te so it's no wonder Young Dev has taken this cause to his martyr heart .. and sure Ming beat him to the bogs!

If he'd take himself & his FF cronies to the nearest septic tank I'd be happy to pay to have it regularly inspected to make sure they don't get out of it.

end a eknny

this is just another tax on working people

goose2005

end a eknny wrote: »

this is just another tax on working people

what about the non-working?

Solidchrome

goose2005 wrote: »

what about the non-working?

Thank you. I cant work because I have a disability and my wife has just accepted an internship to help her chances of getting a job. She is 41 years old and has been trying to find work for two years but no one seems to be recruiting in Co Mayo.

If the water ways are being contaminated because of septic tanks( and because of farmers dumping human waste four times a year on fields near us) then it needs to be fixed. What winds me up is how the government thinks that I have thousands of euros stashed away for a possible septic tank repair. I struggle on social welfare to bring up my family and we are getting to breaking point.

The governement receives money from the EU to implement and maintain urban sewage schemes but we will have to pay for all this ourselves. How can that be right? I wouldnt mind but we live only 3 miles from a town and on a main road but are not on a sewage scheme.

I have sent Minister Phil Hogan a message asking how it would be possbile for a family without savings to pay for this as there has been no mention of government help through a grant. We cannot afford to spend thousands on a possible repair so will we end up in court and have to sell our home to pay off any fines?

We already pay 280 euros a year to have the tank emptied but these other charges that we are going to pay, without any government help, beggars belief.

meglome

scholar007 wrote: »

Over the weekend, Fianna Fáil deputy leader Éamon Ó Cuív said he would go to jail rather than pay the proposed new charges for the inspection and maintenance of septic tanks.

Source:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0831/septictank.html

What these people say to ensure re-election.

Bankrupting the country! - Now that is something really worthwhile to go to jail for.

Luckily Galway has had no problems with waste getting into the water system.

blahfckingblah

Yesterday there was a man on the rte news from friends of the earth (im almost sure it was them) basically saying that its people who live in rural areas fault for these new charges because they CHOOSE to live there. Does he realise that a) the majority of people can afford to be picky about where they live and b) farmers require to live in rural areas and he needs farmers in these areas to feed himself.

anymore

blahfckingblah wrote: »

Yesterday there was a man on the rte news from friends of the earth (im almost sure it was them) basically saying that its people who live in rural areas fault for these new charges because they CHOOSE to live there. Does he realise that a) the majority of people can afford to be picky about where they live and b) farmers require to live in rural areas and he needs farmers in these areas to feed himself.

It is a vexed question to be sure but in many cases the problems have arisen because of the number of one houses that been built simply because farmers have sold off plots to people who built there simply because they were able to wrangle planning permission simply because Ireland being what it is, planning considerations were simply ignored. Even looking at Google earth, you can see the difference between the planning of homes in many of our european neighbours who sustainably build small groups of housing in rural areas as opposed to any old where in ireland.
As for having to live in rural areas, I am a little less sympathetic to that idea. I would have preferred to have a fine house with a big garden in the country when buying some years ago but had to make the decision that at my age I would have to consider being near to shops and facilities like doctors so I decided that getting a much smaller place and semi detached as well in an urban area - for the same price- was what I would have to do.

blahfckingblah

anymore wrote: »

It is a vexed question to be sure but in many cases the problems have arisen because of the number of one houses that been built simply because farmers have sold off plots to people who built there simply because they were able to wrangle planning permission simply because Ireland being what it is, planning considerations were simply ignored. Even looking at Google earth, you can see the difference between the planning of homes in many of our european neighbours who sustainably build small groups of housing in rural areas as opposed to any old where in ireland.
As for having to live in rural areas, I am a little less sympathetic to that idea. I would have preferred to have a fine house with a big garden in the country when buying some years ago but had to make the decision that at my age I would have to consider being near to shops and facilities like doctors so I decided that getting a much smaller place and semi detached as well in an urban area - for the same price- was what I would have to do.

I know exactly what you are saying, the planners just ignored any form of common sense for a matter of years there and in my opinion they are the main reason for all these problems. Farmers sold off plots because the prices they were getting for the land outweighed the income they were recieving for farming the land, even in many cases the poorer land. There seemed to be a time where every bit of land needed a house on it and one of the reasons why is because permission was granted nearly without fail. But where were the environmentalists there? I'm not trying to say they werent there but they're making a hell of a lot more noise now

anymore

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I know exactly what you are saying, the planners just ignored any form of common sense for a matter of years there and in my opinion they are the main reason for all these problems. Farmers sold off plots because the prices they were getting for the land outweighed the income they were recieving for farming the land, even in many cases the poorer land. There seemed to be a time where every bit of land needed a house on it and one of the reasons why is because permission was granted nearly without fail. But where were the environmentalists there? I'm not trying to say they werent there but they're making a hell of a lot more noise now

I think the environmentalists did stand up and protest. I can remember well back as far as the eighties, I think, people like Frnak McDonald in the Irish Times talking about ' Bungalow Blight'. An taisce has over the years taken terrible abuse from every gob ****e politician in the land. They still do. I suppose a lot of the media had a vested interest in the Property market and in selling ads to auctioneers.

BrianD

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I know exactly what you are saying, the planners just ignored any form of common sense for a matter of years there and in my opinion they are the main reason for all these problems. Farmers sold off plots because the prices they were getting for the land outweighed the income they were recieving for farming the land, even in many cases the poorer land. There seemed to be a time where every bit of land needed a house on it and one of the reasons why is because permission was granted nearly without fail. But where were the environmentalists there? I'm not trying to say they werent there but they're making a hell of a lot more noise now

Nonsense, they were there and treated appalingly. Remember all those councillors who wanted An Taisce removed and it was some sort of secret society?

Why? Because they were getting in the way. They were all getting in the way of the councillors who had successfully over ruled the planners through various shenannigans. This was a political doing not one of planners.

Now the countryside is destroyed with dreadful houses plonked everywhere. Ruined. But you reap what you sow and these people will be drinking their own waste soon. As a result we have dreadful water quality across the country.

There should be a charge if you you are going to put waste into the ground in such as basic fashion.

blahfckingblah

BrianD wrote: »

Nonsense, they were there and treated appalingly. Remember all those councillors who wanted An Taisce removed and it was some sort of secret society?

Why? Because they were getting in the way. They were all getting in the way of the councillors who had successfully over ruled the planners through various shenannigans. This was a political doing not one of planners.

Now the countryside is destroyed with dreadful houses plonked everywhere. Ruined. But you reap what you sow and these people will be drinking their own waste soon. As a result we have dreadful water quality across the country.

There should be a charge if you you are going to put waste into the ground in such as basic fashion.

hmm maybe my memory of these people is a bit skewed, but i know for sure that some planning authoritys wouldn't accept many other systems. I mean its rediculous for them to punish people now.

sh1tstirrer

BrianD wrote: »

Nonsense

Now the countryside is destroyed with dreadful houses plonked everywhere. Ruined. But you reap what you sow and these people will be drinking their own waste soon. As a result we have dreadful water quality across the country.

Your first word describes what you said in that paragraph

Medu

He is probably worried that at first it will be a standing charge but then it will be metered.... and we all know how full of s**t FF are!!

Pete_Cavan

Right, I think this thread could do with a few facts.

The need for inspections of septic tanks comes about from EU Council Directive 75/442/EEC. We have had ample time to do something about this but our government (mainly FF - you listening O Cuiv) did nothing about it so as to not lose the country vote. The European Court of Justice has since handed down a judgement in the case Judgment of the Court (Second Chamber) of 29 October 2009 — Commission of the European Communities v Ireland

1. Declares that, by failing to adopt, save in County Cavan, all the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with Articles 4 and 8 of Council Directive 75/442/EEC of 15 July 1975 on waste, as amended by Council Directive 91/156/EEC of 18 March 1991, as regards domestic waste waters disposed of in the countryside through septic tanks and other individual waste water treatment systems, Ireland has failed to fulfil its obligations under that directive;
2. Orders Ireland to pay three quarters of the costs of the Commission of the European Communities and to bear its own costs;
3. Orders the Commission of the European Communities to bear one quarter of its own costs.

We have ignored this issue so long now that the European Commission in May 2011 referred the issue back to the Court of Justice and requested the imposition of a lump sum fine of €2.7 million and a daily penalty payment of €26,173 for as long as the infringements persist.

Of course there is a simple solution to this problem. The reason Cavan does not fall foul of this Directive is because it introduced under the "Waste water treatment systems for single houses - Bye-Laws 2004" which has inspections every seven years;

6.1 Wastewater treatment systems shall be inspected by a competent person at least once every seven years after initial inspection (section 2.2), for structural
soundness, watertightness of the treatment system and for visual signs of malfunction.
6.2 A certificate shall be given in proof of each inspection certifying that the wastewater treatment system is operating satisfactorily. If after each 7-yearly inspection any deficiencies or malfunctions are identified, the occupier shall notify the Local Authority within 14 days, together with a programme for repair.
6.3 Records of tank emptying and inspections, initial, seven-yearly and maintenance, shall be kept up-to-date and shall be available at all reasonable times for inspection by an authorised person of the Local Authority and be provided to the Local Authority on request in writing.
6.4 A person subject to these Bye-Laws shall facilitate an authorised person of the Local Authority in performance of duties in respect of these bye-laws.

O Cuiv should go to jail because he served as Minister of State for Rural Development, Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and Minister for Environment (albeit only for 3 months) in the government and ignored this Directive to the stage where we face a €2.7m fine plus a daily fine.

Solidchrome

Pete_Cavan

Tell us something we dont know.

The fact remains that the government receives money from the EU to implement and maintain urban sewage schemes yet rural Ireland is expected to pay(possibly thousands of euros) of our own money to sort out a mess that shouldnt have happened in the first place.

How is that right?

Foghladh

Regardless of the mans political affiliation it's not a trivial matter. Guidelines regarding the suitability of septic tanks are completely different to what they were thirty years ago. It's not just badly planned, recent developments that will be accountable. A house built 30 years ago would have been granted permission for a good old fashioned concrete ring tank. I can only speak for the cases I know as an engineer, but a lot of councils will specify a bio-cycle type for a new build in these times. The percolation test that is supposedly the litmus test is a pretty low tech affair. Any house that installed anything other than a bio-cycle could well find that their system does not pass muster. Plus if you are ordered to upgrade your tank you must apply for planning permission first so factor in that cost on top of the 5 or 6 grand for a new system, as well as the 'inspection' costs. I hate to say it but I fear it will come down to the need of the local authority to raise revenue

reprazant

thebman wrote: »

I like this bit of the article:

It is also estimated that 9,000 people in the Dublin area may have to pay the charge and a public meeting on the issue is to be held in Balbriggan later this week.

So the meeting is next week and everything was fine when people in Dublin thought this would be a country person tax. Watch the hypocrisy emerge, all of a sudden this will become something that is needed according to many into an issue that effects them and so cannot be implemented.

Its almost as there is no farms, rural houses or even countryside in Dublin.

So anyone who is annoyed that this will affect them but lives in Dublin is hypocritical? God, take that massive chip off your shoulder.

Liam Byrne

Inspect them away, but don't charge for it.

Just fine any seriously polluting ones.

That way the ones causing the problems have a bigger incentive to maintain/fix them, as the punishment would be higher, achieving the "supposed" aim, and decent people don't get ridden sideways yet again.

anymore

Solidchrome wrote: »

Pete_Cavan

Tell us something we dont know.

The fact remains that the government receives money from the EU to implement and maintain urban sewage schemes yet rural Ireland is expected to pay(possibly thousands of euros) of our own money to sort out a mess that shouldnt have happened in the first place.

How is that right?

Donno, crap situation !

On second thoughts, I thought rural TDs like Lowry and Healy rae were practically writing Government policy for the last Government ?
Guess ye get what ye voted for

skelliser

reprazant wrote: »

Its almost as there is no farms, rural houses or even countryside in Dublin.

So anyone who is annoyed that this will affect them but lives in Dublin is hypocritical? God, take that massive chip off your shoulder.

im afraid thebman is correct.

i remember when local authority residents somewhere in dublin were out protesting because they didnt wanna pay refuse charges.
How do i know this!! because RTE had it as one of their main news headlines on the news.
If it doesnt happen or effects dublin it isnt reported.

i gaurantee this public meeting will be reported!

paul71

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Inspect them away, but don't charge for it.

Just fine any seriously polluting ones.

That way the ones causing the problems have a bigger incentive to maintain/fix them, as the punishment would be higher, achieving the "supposed" aim, and decent people don't get ridden sideways yet again.

I have not heard or thought of this idea before, but it seems to make perfect sense.

Foghladh

paul71 wrote: »

I have not heard or thought of this idea before, but it seems to make perfect sense.

Sense will not come into this I fear. This will all come under the remit of the local authorities who are fighting for alternative revenue streams these days. The cash cow of the development charges had dried up and central government funding has been cut. Colour me cynical, but I don't see the councils stepping back from a means to generate some extra income and all in the name of environmental protection

Godge

blahfckingblah wrote: »

Yesterday there was a man on the rte news from friends of the earth (im almost sure it was them) basically saying that its people who live in rural areas fault for these new charges because they CHOOSE to live there. Does he realise that a) the majority of people can afford to be picky about where they live and b) farmers require to live in rural areas and he needs farmers in these areas to feed himself.

didn't hear that man from Friend of the Earth, but essentially he is right. If you drive around other European countries you do not see the same pattern of dispersed one-off housing development that you see in Ireland. Instead you see a pattern of small villages with no development in between. Farmers travel out to their farms if they need to.

Godge

Solidchrome wrote: »

Pete_Cavan

Tell us something we dont know.

The fact remains that the government receives money from the EU to implement and maintain urban sewage schemes yet rural Ireland is expected to pay(possibly thousands of euros) of our own money to sort out a mess that shouldnt have happened in the first place.

How is that right?

Because you chose not to avail of the urban sewage scheme by living in a one-off house on the top of a mountain. You picked the view, the countryside, the getting-away-from-it-all over urban living.

The state cannot facilitate and pay for every lifestyle, the money is not there. so it can only facilitate and pay for high-density and urban living. This is the same the world over.

Pete_Cavan

Solidchrome wrote: »

Pete_Cavan

Tell us something we dont know.

The fact remains that the government receives money from the EU to implement and maintain urban sewage schemes yet rural Ireland is expected to pay(possibly thousands of euros) of our own money to sort out a mess that shouldnt have happened in the first place.

How is that right?

According to Minister Phil Hogan;

These are likely to require owners or occupiers of premises utilising septic tanks and other on-site waste water treatment systems to have their system inspected by a suitably qualified competent person to ensure that the system has been installed correctly and complies with prescribed standards of operation. I expect that it will also be a requirement that treatment systems be maintained and de-sludged in accordance with manufacturers’ instructions.

So I assume the new legislation will be similar to the "Waste water treatment systems for single houses - Bye-Laws 2004" in Cavan which requires;

6.1 Wastewater treatment systems shall be inspected by a competent person at least once every seven years after initial inspection (section 2.2), for structural
soundness, watertightness of the treatment system and for visual signs of malfunction.
6.2 A certificate shall be given in proof of each inspection certifying that the wastewater treatment system is operating satisfactorily. If after each 7-yearly inspection any deficiencies or malfunctions are identified, the occupier shall notify the Local Authority within 14 days, together with a programme for repair.
6.3 Records of tank emptying and inspections, initial, seven-yearly and maintenance, shall be kept up-to-date and shall be available at all reasonable times for inspection by an authorised person of the Local Authority and be provided to the Local Authority on request in writing.

Basically, you pay to maintain the box of shіte sitting in your garden so that it doesnt start leaking bacteria into the groundwater, poisoning everyone. Its your septic tank, you pay to maintain it, and if you cant produce proof that it is working properly (ie. records of tank emptying, inspections, etc.) when asked you get a fine.

How is that wrong?

Pete_Cavan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Inspect them away, but don't charge for it.

Just fine any seriously polluting ones.

That way the ones causing the problems have a bigger incentive to maintain/fix them, as the punishment would be higher, achieving the "supposed" aim, and decent people don't get ridden sideways yet again.

AFAIK that is the plan. You pay someone else (not the Local Authority) to inspect your tank and issue you with a certificate that all is in order with the tank. If you cannot produce this cert, as well as records of the tank being emptied, when asked to do so by the Local Authority, you will be fined. If assume the Local Authority will carry out random inspections of certified tanks to ensure it is working and you didnt just pay a guy to sign off on a cert.

Liam Byrne

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

AFAIK that is the plan. You pay someone else (not the Local Authority) to inspect your tank and issue you with a certificate that all is in order with the tank. If you cannot produce this cert, as well as records of the tank being emptied, when asked to do so by the Local Authority, you will be fined. If assume the Local Authority will carry out random inspections of certified tanks to ensure it is working and you didnt just pay a guy to sign off on a cert.

Did you miss the first line ? The bit where the wages of those inspecting are paid by the funds available from those fined, and not out of our pockets ?

So what I proposed is NOT the plan.

Solidchrome

Godge wrote: »

Because you chose not to avail of the urban sewage scheme by living in a one-off house on the top of a mountain. You picked the view, the countryside, the getting-away-from-it-all over urban living.

The state cannot facilitate and pay for every lifestyle, the money is not there. so it can only facilitate and pay for high-density and urban living. This is the same the world over.

We live on a main road two miles from a town so wind your neck in. There are people who live much closer to town and still have septic tanks.

If previous governments had installed a half decent sewage infrastructure this conversation wouldnt be happening.

Tax payers, including rural tax payers, and the EU pay for and implement / maintain the pipes that take your urban sh1te away so how is that fair?

Solidchrome

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

blah, blah,fecking blah,..Basically, you pay to maintain the box of shіte sitting in your garden so that it doesnt start leaking bacteria into the groundwater, poisoning everyone. Its your septic tank, you pay to maintain it, and if you cant produce proof that it is working properly (ie. records of tank emptying, inspections, etc.) when asked you get a fine.

How is that wrong?

Yes I pay 280 euros a year to have it emptied- how much do you pay to have your urban sh1te taken away? What did you say..nothing?

How is that right?

Dionysus

I've always supported Ó Cuív when it came to the long overdue legal changes to protect Irish speakers' rights and promote the Irish language. I want to be very clear about that, no matter what ignorant anti-Irish sorts might contend has been the reality about the abysmal treatment of Irish speakers here in Ireland.

That out of the way, this septic tank stuff, as with his inexcusable defence some years back of individuals receiving planning permission across the Irish countryside, is quite simply not in the interest of our society. He's playing politics and the destruction of our countryside is the victim. Shameless troglodyte politics worthy of a Breandán Ó hEihir satire.

blahfckingblah

Godge wrote: »

didn't hear that man from Friend of the Earth, but essentially he is right. If you drive around other European countries you do not see the same pattern of dispersed one-off housing development that you see in Ireland. Instead you see a pattern of small villages with no development in between. Farmers travel out to their farms if they need to.

So you think all the farmers in their 100+ year old farmhouses should sell their ancesteral home and buy in towns and cities where they will have to travel to work and won't be when they are needed eg cows calving, added to that their machinery and livestock would be unprotected from thieves. That's just the drawbacks of the top of my head. I understand what you're saying but thats probably a traditional thing? I mean what are people expected to do with all these houses now if they do move back to the towns?

goose2005

Solidchrome wrote: »

Pete_Cavan

Tell us something we dont know.

The fact remains that the government receives money from the EU to implement and maintain urban sewage schemes yet rural Ireland is expected to pay(possibly thousands of euros) of our own money to sort out a mess that shouldnt have happened in the first place.

How is that right?

Because "rural Ireland" chooses extremely thinly-spread houses. Even the village where I grew up, there were about 100 houses in the village and maybe 1,000 in the surrounding area. Now, imagine if there were 1000 houses in the village and the countryside only contained the tiny number of farmhouses. It would be much more economical to supply telephone, electric, sewage, broadband, school transport etc. Not to mention that the community itself would be much more vibrant. Rural Ireland chose ribbon development and a car culture.

goose2005

Solidchrome wrote: »

We live on a main road two miles from a town so wind your neck in. There are people who live much closer to town and still have septic tanks.

If previous governments had installed a half decent sewage infrastructure this conversation wouldnt be happening.

Tax payers, including rural tax payers, and the EU pay for and implement / maintain the pipes that take your urban sh1te away so how is that fair?

High population density in urban areas make it much cheaper on a per head basis to provide any service. Urban households pay a huge 'black rent' every year to the culchies.

Pete_Cavan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did you miss the first line ? The bit where the wages of those inspecting are paid by the funds available from those fined, and not out of our pockets ?

So what I proposed is NOT the plan.

Err... the first line of what exactly?

So far I have quoted from;

1. the relevant EU Directive
2. a ruling handed down by The European Court of Justice
3. the only bye-law in the country which is in accordance with the EU Directive
4. a clarification issued by the European Commission regarding the legislation in question
5. the answer the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government gave in response to a question on this issue raised in the Dail

So I will stick with my interpretation. You are free to continue believing what the lads in the pub have said if you so wish.

Liam Byrne

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did you miss the first line ? The bit where the wages of those inspecting are paid by the funds available from those fined, and not out of our pockets ?

So what I proposed is NOT the plan.

Err... the first line of what exactly?

So far I have quoted from;

1. the relevant EU Directive
2. a ruling handed down by The European Court of Justice
3. the only bye-law in the country which is in accordance with the EU Directive
4. a clarification issued by the European Commission regarding the legislation in question
5. the answer the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government gave in response to a question on this issue raised in the Dail

So I will stick with my interpretation. You are free to continue believing what the lads in the pub have said if you so wish.

What are you on about ? Being that condescending and patronising won't help you re-read my post and spot the first line of my post that said that ONLY polluters should pay, and that their fines, if larger, would cover the costs of the inspection scheme without screwing decent people any further.

Pete_Cavan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What are you on about ? Being that condescending and patronising won't help you re-read my post and spot the first line of my post that said that ONLY polluters should pay, and that their fines, if larger, would cover the costs of the inspection scheme without screwing decent people any further.

Like I said, only those who pollute will be fined. Everyone else will have to pay to maintain their septic tank, instead of the current situation where it can be leaking shіt which may be finding its way into watercourses, endangering human health and the environment. What is wrong with this? Why do you think you should not have to pay to maintain your septic tank? Do you also think someone else should pay to maintain your car?

And as for being condescending and patronising, IMO you earn that right if you are having a debate and you provide links and back up everything you say while the other person disputes what you say yet provides no proof whatsoever.

Liam Byrne

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Like I said, only those who pollute will be fined. Everyone else will have to pay to maintain their septic tank,

Which we do already.

Why do you think you should not have to pay to maintain your septic tank?

Yet again you persist in attributing things to me that I never said. Decent law-abiding people ALREADY pay to maintain and empty their tanks, despite this being an extra tax compared to those living in cities.

We are talking about the INSPECTION charge - the one to determine which unmaintained tanks are causing the pollution.

Please keep up and only attribute statements to me when I make them.

skelliser

goose2005 wrote: »

Because "rural Ireland" chooses extremely thinly-spread houses. Even the village where I grew up, there were about 100 houses in the village and maybe 1,000 in the surrounding area. Now, imagine if there were 1000 houses in the village and the countryside only contained the tiny number of farmhouses. It would be much more economical to supply telephone, electric, sewage, broadband, school transport etc. Not to mention that the community itself would be much more vibrant. Rural Ireland chose ribbon development and a car culture.

hang on now!

Did you ever sit down and think why people build out the country?
i think you will find "rural irelands" choice's are extremely thin!


In europe they have laws which protect renters.Extremly long leases, proper tenacy bords etc.
In ireland nada, why?

cause the vested interests want us to buy houses, ie. the friends of FF; the bankers and developers. Add to this the amount of auctioners we elect as representatives and we have the **** hole that passes for a country.
So what happens?
The price of houses goes up!
People cannot afford to buy houses in towns and city so hence they buy them out the country.

Now add to this a Public Service who have so far been protected from austerity and we have the farcical situation of rubbish services which are now being cut further, the joke that is the croke park agreement and commercial rates which have not been reduced in the main.

so they now decide to pass the buck, once again, with this septic tank charge onto the taxpayer to fill the gap.

So think again before ya go on your rural ireland rant!

btw im a townie!! i dont pay anyone to maintain our sewage treatment plant in galway nor do i pay for its maintenance.
So i dont see why people in the country should have too.