Irish Army camo clothing

SOCOM

Just got a set of Irish army gear (top and bottom and boots)
My question is, is it legal to wear at a skirmish site? I am not in the army so could I get my head kicked in for wearing it?
It's got the tri-colour on the sleeve.
Someone please shed some light as I have a steyr and can't wait to use this stuff!

Decoy

No, it is definitely NOT legal to wear Irish DPM unless you are a member of the DF who is actually on duty.

From the Charter:
"The wearing of Irish DPM pattern gear while not on duty, or any other clothing and equipment issued by the Irish Defence Forces is illegal under the Defence Act 1954 and it's subsequent amendments."


I may be corrected but I think it may also be illegal to have a set of Irish DPM in your possession as it remains the property of the Minister of Defence in perpetuity.

SOCOM

Just waiting to hear back from a mate in the Rangers, but I kinda knew already that they are illegal to wear. But at €6 for the set at a market , how could you resist!!
I will return them to my nearest barracks if it comes to it, but dang they are seriously comfy!!!

Genghiz Cohen

Are they the current issue?
Because of they are an older, no longer used set, they might be ok.

SOCOM

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Are they the current issue?
Because of they are an older, no longer used set, they might be ok.

Mmm interesting, according to the vendor they are 2 years old, other than that I don't know, where could I find out?

Master and commander

even by possesion you are commiting an offence. Certainly DO NOT take it to a barracks, you'd be bringing trouble on yourself.- you will have the guards on you case quizing who and where you got them from and for what reasonin no time. The officials in the military have to do this as if there an incident like robery or shooting with someone else in irish camo and it comes to light that the army didn't report to the guards that guys were floating around with camo, then there'd be an ungodly shltorm for them.

Your best bet is to get rid of it, preferably burn it rathar than throw out as someone could find it. Get rid of it ASAP.

Decoy

As far as I know there are two issues around Irish DPM. First, the pattern is 'owned' by the Minister so can't be replicated anywhere which is why you never see copies. Second, the garments themselves remain the property of the Minister which is why they should never be available as surplus, I'm not saying some older garments weren't released (especially if they had changed the pattern in any way) but it would be the first I've heard of it and 2 years old sounds current to me.

Unless you have authorisation in writing from the Department of Defence why take the chance, it's not worth it.

SOCOM

'Nuff said gentlemen, I shall dispose of them but I will keep the boots!!
Please close this thread!

Typhon

As far as I remember you can have them aslong as there is no irish flag on them because then it becomes a uniform rather than a camo pattern. But again I could be mistaken on that.

But the french also have a pattern which is close to ours. Might be worth a look also

NakedDex

You are mistaken. Think of the pattern as being like a patent or trademark, it cannot be duplicated legally, nor can it be used by anyone other than defence forces personnel.

The "previous issue" being legal thing refers to the old heavy cotton OD's we got in the bad old days.

Typhon

NakedDex wrote: »

You are mistaken. Think of the pattern as being like a patent or trademark, it cannot be duplicated legally, nor can it be used by anyone other than defence forces personnel.

I stand corrected then!

F.U.B.A.R

Typhon wrote: »

As far as I remember you can have them aslong as there is no irish flag on them because then it becomes a uniform rather than a camo pattern. But again I could be mistaken on that.

But the french also have a pattern which is close to ours. Might be worth a look also

Defacing of Government property and dessacration of the irish flag so I wouldnt remove anything from it Gotten many a lecture on the subject also any Irish DPM items are current issue no such thing as 'old' irish dpm Pro-tac in kildare sell variouse licensed Irish dpm products that work very well with US Woodland and French CE camo (thats my loadout)

SOCOM

Thanks for all the feedback, I have disposed of said uniform.
End of story.

Alan b.

Master and commander wrote: »

even by possesion you are commiting an offence. Certainly DO NOT take it to a barracks, you'd be bringing trouble on yourself.- you will have the guards on you case quizing who and where you got them from and for what reasonin no time. The officials in the military have to do this as if there an incident like robery or shooting with someone else in irish camo and it comes to light that the army didn't report to the guards that guys were floating around with camo, then there'd be an ungodly shltorm for them.

Your best bet is to get rid of it, preferably burn it rathar than throw out as someone could find it. Get rid of it ASAP.

talk about over exagerating things.
do you work for a tabloid newspaper?

F.U.B.A.R

Jaysus burning it is a hell of alot worse then handing it in! If you know nyone in the RDF(FCA) They'l happily take it off you as I know from expereince some fellas are left waiting years for kit I waited three years for rank slides and two years for name tags!

blackjack...

:DComical stuff Lads brilliant

shadowtactical

hi, i recived a set of irish dpm but am wondering if i can use them whilst airsofting, they were a gift from a friend who in the FCA and is no longer in it. they have the small irish flag on the right arm and i am unsure how old they are. im just asking before i go and wear them as one of the marshals on my site is currently in the army, thanks

Gatling

shadowtactical wrote: »

hi, i recived a set of irish dpm but am wondering if i can use them whilst airsofting, they were a gift from a friend who in the FCA and is no longer in it. they have the small irish flag on the right arm and i am unsure how old they are. im just asking before i go and wear them as one of the marshals on my site is currently in the army, thanks

Simply put No

mack1984

shadowtactical wrote: »

hi, i recived a set of irish dpm but am wondering if i can use them whilst airsofting, they were a gift from a friend who in the FCA and is no longer in it. they have the small irish flag on the right arm and i am unsure how old they are. im just asking before i go and wear them as one of the marshals on my site is currently in the army, thanks

As above, Didnt you read the thread you just posted in?

shadowtactical

yeah i did read the post but im just making sure, thanks

OzCam

You obviously didn't read the Forum Charter either.

- The wearing of Irish DPM pattern gear while not on duty, or any other clothing and equipment issued by the Irish Defence Forces is illegal under the Defence Act 1954 and it's subsequent amendments.

We get away with running around in uniforms and carrying replica firearms because we do it in private and away from public view. Our chance to do so can be taken away if we don't value and protect it.

For those who can't be arsed reading the legal language**, here's a summary in Plain English:
• If you're in the DF, you can't wear the uniform except on duty. You also have to wear all of it, in accordance with Dress Regulations.
• If you're not in the DF, impersonating a member (or a Garda) is a serious offence.
• Unauthorised possession of State Property is illegal.
• Wearing the uniform of a foreign power in public without permission in writing from the Department of Foreign Affairs is also illegal.
• IANAL, but I'm pretty sure you could also be done under conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace.


** Thanks to Ice, Rew etc. for the citations, saved.


Section 258 (b) of the Defence Act s (1954 – 1998, as amended) states:

“Any person who falsely represents himself [/herself] to any military or civil authority to belong to, or to be, or to have been a particular member of the Defence Forces, shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding [euro] 250.00 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.”

"Further to that, under Defence Forces Regulations when a soldier discharges from the Defence Forces they must hand in all items of uniform and are not permitted to pass on, distribute, sell or wear that uniform. It is also an offence for a member of the Defence Forces to sell items of issue uniform."

Originally Posted by Defence Act Section 264

264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

(3) In this section the word "uniform" includes any distinctive part of a uniform.

Law regarding purchasing ex-DF gear:

Quote:
[GA] Penalty for purchasing certain military property.
260.—(1) In this section, the expression "military property" means any property being—

( a ) any arms, ammunition (including bombs, grenades or similar missiles), equipment, instruments or clothing issued for the use of members of the Defence Forces, or

( b ) any military decoration of a member of the Defence Forces, or

( c ) any furniture, bedding, blankets, sheets, utensils or stores in military charge, or

( d ) any provisions or forage issued for the use of a member of the Defence Forces or his horse, or

( e ) any horse or vehicle employed in the service of the Defence Forces.

(2) ( a ) If any person—

(i) buys, exchanges, takes in pawn, obtains or receives from any person, on any pretence whatsoever, any military property, or

(ii) solicits or entices any person to sell, exchange, pawn or give away any military property, or

(iii) assists or acts for any person in selling, exchanging, pawning or making away with any military property,

such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds together with treble the value of any military property of which he has become possessed by means of the offence or, at the discretion, of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.

( b ) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section it shall be a good defence to prove that—

(i) at the time he did the act alleged in the charge, he was unaware that the property in respect of which the charge was made was in fact military property, or

(ii) the said property was sold by order or with the consent of the Minister or some competent military authority, or

(iii) the said property was the personal property of a person who had ceased to be a member of the Defence Forces or of the legal personal representatives of a deceased member of the Defence Forces.

(3) Where any military property is found in the possession or keeping of any person, such person may be brought or summoned before a Justice of the District Court, and if such Justice has reasonable ground to believe that the military property so found was stolen, or was bought, exchanged, taken in pawn, obtained or received in contravention of this section, then, if such person does not satisfy such Justice that he came by the military property so found lawfully and without any contravention of this Act, he shall be liable on summary conviction to the same penalties as are specified in subsection (2) of this section in the case of a contravention of that subsection.

(4) A person found committing an offence under this section may be arrested without warrant, and brought, together with the military property which is the subject of the offence, before a Justice of the District Court, and any person to whom any such property is offered to be sold, pawned or delivered, who has reasonable cause to suppose that the same is offered in contravention of this section, may arrest without warrant the person offering such military property and deliver him and such military property into the custody of a member of the Garda Síochána to be dealt with according to law.

(5) A Justice of the District Court, if satisfied on oath that there is reasonable cause to suspect that any person has in his possession or on his premises any military property on or with respect to which any offence in this section mentioned has been committed, may grant a warrant in search for such military property as in the case of stolen goods and any military property found on such search shall be seized by the person charged with the execution of such warrant, who shall bring the person in whose possession the same is found before some Justice of the District Court to be dealt with according to law.

(6) For the purposes of this section, military property shall be deemed to be in the possession or keeping of a person if he knowingly has it in the actual possession or keeping of any other person or in any house, building, lodging, apartment, field or place, open or enclosed, whether occupied by himself or not, and whether the same is so had for his own use or benefit or for the use or benefit of another.

shadowtactical

soooo what will i do with it then ?

3102derek

i'd give them back

Mando Commando

I think it's ok if you take off the little Tricolor. I found a shamrock on my dpms my cousin gave me.

kieranfitz

Mando Commando wrote: »

I think it's ok if you take off the little Tricolor. I found a shamrock on my dpms my cousin gave me.

No it's not.

Mando Commando

Satire fellas, satire. It seems the old art of trolling Boards Airsoft is well and truly dead. I suppose to be fair it is thread spoiling.

Jsmurff

Mando Commando wrote: »

Satire fellas, satire. It seems the old art of trolling Boards Airsoft is well and truly dead. I suppose to be fair it is thread spoiling.

Wtf are you talking about?

Also what's with bloody necromancy? It's Ireland! Laws don't change here all issued kit is legally owned by the minister for deffence that is never going to change it will never be okay to use Irish issued kit for recreation perposes! Can a mod please lock this thread?!

TireeTerror

OzCam wrote: »

You obviously didn't read the Forum Charter either.


We get away with running around in uniforms and carrying replica firearms because we do it in private and away from public view. Our chance to do so can be taken away if we don't value and protect it.

For those who can't be arsed reading the legal language**, here's a summary in Plain English:
• If you're in the DF, you can't wear the uniform except on duty. You also have to wear all of it, in accordance with Dress Regulations.
• If you're not in the DF, impersonating a member (or a Garda) is a serious offence.
• Unauthorised possession of State Property is illegal.
• Wearing the uniform of a foreign power in public without permission in writing from the Department of Foreign Affairs is also illegal.
• IANAL, but I'm pretty sure you could also be done under conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace.


** Thanks to Ice, Rew etc. for the citations, saved.


Section 258 (b) of the Defence Act s (1954 – 1998, as amended) states:

“Any person who falsely represents himself [/herself] to any military or civil authority to belong to, or to be, or to have been a particular member of the Defence Forces, shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding [euro] 250.00 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.”

"Further to that, under Defence Forces Regulations when a soldier discharges from the Defence Forces they must hand in all items of uniform and are not permitted to pass on, distribute, sell or wear that uniform. It is also an offence for a member of the Defence Forces to sell items of issue uniform."

Originally Posted by Defence Act Section 264

264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

(3) In this section the word "uniform" includes any distinctive part of a uniform.

Law regarding purchasing ex-DF gear:

Quote:
[GA] Penalty for purchasing certain military property.
260.—(1) In this section, the expression "military property" means any property being—

( a ) any arms, ammunition (including bombs, grenades or similar missiles), equipment, instruments or clothing issued for the use of members of the Defence Forces, or

( b ) any military decoration of a member of the Defence Forces, or

( c ) any furniture, bedding, blankets, sheets, utensils or stores in military charge, or

( d ) any provisions or forage issued for the use of a member of the Defence Forces or his horse, or

( e ) any horse or vehicle employed in the service of the Defence Forces.

(2) ( a ) If any person—

(i) buys, exchanges, takes in pawn, obtains or receives from any person, on any pretence whatsoever, any military property, or

(ii) solicits or entices any person to sell, exchange, pawn or give away any military property, or

(iii) assists or acts for any person in selling, exchanging, pawning or making away with any military property,

such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds together with treble the value of any military property of which he has become possessed by means of the offence or, at the discretion, of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.

( b ) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section it shall be a good defence to prove that—

(i) at the time he did the act alleged in the charge, he was unaware that the property in respect of which the charge was made was in fact military property, or

(ii) the said property was sold by order or with the consent of the Minister or some competent military authority, or

(iii) the said property was the personal property of a person who had ceased to be a member of the Defence Forces or of the legal personal representatives of a deceased member of the Defence Forces.

(3) Where any military property is found in the possession or keeping of any person, such person may be brought or summoned before a Justice of the District Court, and if such Justice has reasonable ground to believe that the military property so found was stolen, or was bought, exchanged, taken in pawn, obtained or received in contravention of this section, then, if such person does not satisfy such Justice that he came by the military property so found lawfully and without any contravention of this Act, he shall be liable on summary conviction to the same penalties as are specified in subsection (2) of this section in the case of a contravention of that subsection.

(4) A person found committing an offence under this section may be arrested without warrant, and brought, together with the military property which is the subject of the offence, before a Justice of the District Court, and any person to whom any such property is offered to be sold, pawned or delivered, who has reasonable cause to suppose that the same is offered in contravention of this section, may arrest without warrant the person offering such military property and deliver him and such military property into the custody of a member of the Garda Síochána to be dealt with according to law.

(5) A Justice of the District Court, if satisfied on oath that there is reasonable cause to suspect that any person has in his possession or on his premises any military property on or with respect to which any offence in this section mentioned has been committed, may grant a warrant in search for such military property as in the case of stolen goods and any military property found on such search shall be seized by the person charged with the execution of such warrant, who shall bring the person in whose possession the same is found before some Justice of the District Court to be dealt with according to law.

(6) For the purposes of this section, military property shall be deemed to be in the possession or keeping of a person if he knowingly has it in the actual possession or keeping of any other person or in any house, building, lodging, apartment, field or place, open or enclosed, whether occupied by himself or not, and whether the same is so had for his own use or benefit or for the use or benefit of another.

Hahahaah ridiculous. As if any of this would be upheld. Wear what you want, its a free world apparently, sure isnt that why Ireland has an army in the first place, to keep those rights?

Gatling

Nearly 9 years later we still have this bs .


One word can you wear irish dpm to play airsoft NO

Del2005

TireeTerror wrote: »

Hahahaah ridiculous. As if any of this would be upheld. Wear what you want, its a free world apparently, sure isnt that why Ireland has an army in the first place, to keep those rights?

It's far from a free world we live in.

The sport of airsoft has only recently been legalised here and I'm sure that there are still plenty of people who want it banned again. People breaking the law will only get it banned again as this country's solution is to ban anything that they don't understand or think is dangerous, seeing people running around dressed as Irish soldiers shooting guns will get the "talk to Joe" crazies out in force and then the government will implement some knee here reaction.

Just look at the trouble the shooting are in with proposed restrictions on certain types of firearms.

Lemming

TireeTerror wrote: »

Hahahaah ridiculous. As if any of this would be upheld. Wear what you want, its a free world apparently, sure isnt that why Ireland has an army in the first place, to keep those rights?

The DF - or representatives from the DoD at any rate have approached sites in the past on foot of reports of people playing airsoft in issue kit.

Not so ridiculous ...

Mando Commando

Jsmurff wrote: »

Wtf are you talking about?

Also what's with bloody necromancy? It's Ireland! Laws don't change here all issued kit is legally owned by the minister for deffence that is never going to change it will never be okay to use Irish issued kit for recreation perposes! Can a mod please lock this thread?!

Precisely! Simples

brian00278

Legally speaking its an offence but who will enforce that? The Guards never have and never will, the DF has zero authority over Civilians.

It's not tainted with the bubonic plague so no need to burn/destroy or hand it back in, if someone came to me on the front gate with a uniform I'd simply say thanks and (think gob****e) and bin it.

It doesn't go into a report and go to Secret Squirrels (Int) and then on to Garda Int to find out why a Civilian has a Uniform because they don't care and have bigger and more important things to be doing.

CEMO (equipment) is considered Ordnance so they would pay a little more attention to how someone got that but clothing is fine.

OzCam

You can argue the legalities all you like, but basically it falls under the Don't Be A Dick rule.

The Army have politely asked that we don't wear their uniform. It's really that simple. And it's impolite to argue their reasons. Not wearing one particular pattern of camouflage in one particular jurisdiction is a small price to pay in order to keep good relations between the PDF and airsoft.

No properly run site in this country will allow you to wear IDPM anyway, so save your money and buy something else. There's no shortage of ex-issue British, French, German, Czech or Polish uniforms on the market. If you have spare cash, buy Swedish. They all work perfectly well in Ireland.