UPC Boards.ie Offer Load a sh**e

boardzz

Ordered it last Saturday and waited til Monday so courier with equipment would phone me. No call. Phoned UPC, they say guy I spoke to never put through the order.
We will get a 'team leader' to phone you first thing in the morning'.
No call in morning....no call all day.
Phone a 5.15 today see what the story is, UPC say we will tell the retail department to ring you back within next half hour...no call back.

Now I've been forced to phone up to cancel the order and put through a new order without the boards.ie offer.

Whats the point in the offer if UPC wont give it to ya?

illumin

Sounds like a miscommunication between departments. I used the offer a few months back and upc rep was very helpful, i received all the gear within a few days and it worked no probs.

Anan1

boardzz wrote: »

Now I've been forced to phone up to cancel the order and put through a new order without the boards.ie offer.

Whats the point in the offer if UPC wont give it to ya?

Why not just tell the person you speak to in UPC to give you the boards offer?

shinzon

or why not just im upc jason to sort it for you

shin

boardzz

Anan1 wrote: »

Why not just tell the person you speak to in UPC to give you the boards offer?

Asked that, they won't offer that on sales department.

shinzon wrote: »

or why not just im upc jason to sort it for you

shin

Did, no reply yet.

Anan1

boardzz wrote: »

Asked that, they won't offer that on sales department.

Don't ask, insist. Like any other business, UPC will offer you as little as they think you'll accept. Customer loyalty are the people you need to talk to.

jimmycrackcorm

boardzz wrote: »

Asked that, they won't offer that on sales department.

Did, no reply yet.

From my experience in getting my order processed Jason was totally on the ball.

boardzz

Then to make matters worse, about a half hour after ordering UPC for the 3rd times. Doorbell rang with UPC salesman askin 'would you like to install UPC'......ya i would but d wont give it to me!

Kev.

Contact them on Twitter,by far the best service from UPC..Itll be sorted in an hour..


@UPC_HelpsYou_IE

Virgin Media: Jason

Hi boardzz

Unfortunately if I receive a PM after business hours (which I did), in many cases I cannot reply until the following day.

If we have not contacted you within 12 hours of receiving a boards offer request, it is likely that the number we received was either incorrect, or remained unanswered, out of range etc, as we reply to all requests within a pre-defined timeframe.

If you were delayed I apologise for that.

With regard to this offer being a 'bad' one. I am sorry you feel that way, many many boardies have used it and have got great value from it.

If you need my assistance with anything, please feel free to PM me again and I will try assist within business hours for you.

Regards

Jason

boardzz wrote: »

Asked that, they won't offer that on sales department.

Did, no reply yet.

cardol

I'm with UPC 34 days and the half price offer I was expecting is a total nightmare.

I signed up for the 25MB package and Freetime World Pack which is €42pm. The half price deal is €21pm for the first two months. All well and good.

My first bill came in less than a week after I had BB set up, and before my phone was ported over to UPC. It was for €15.13.
Fibre Power 25 - €4.67
Telephony - €7.47
Non Direct Debit Charge - €2.99

I rang them and eventually, they told me I was in credit by €24.87. I was informed that as I ws in credit, my next bill would be zero and the remaining credit (€3.87) applied to my third bill, making that bill €17.13. That would bring me into September and my October bill would then go back up to €42.00pm.

Well, my second bill arrived today and it was for €51.82. I've just got off the phone with them and apparently they bill you in advance. The break-down is as follows and is very difficult to understand:

Two months and two days - €86.82
(Phone - €14.46 and Pack - €72.36 = €86.82)
Credits in Savings and Discounts - €36.21
Further credit that was overlooked - €5.79
(€36.21 + €5.79 = €42.00)
So, €86.82 - €42.00 = €44.82
Calls I made - €0.85
New balance - €45.67

According to UPC, I now owe them €46.12 (???)
And next month I will owe them approx. €44.00, they cannot accurately predict.

Where exactly am I making my savings, or am I missing something? I spent a long time on the phone with them, and it's still clear as mud.:mad:

ostrich

cardol wrote: »

I'm with UPC 34 days and the half price offer I was expecting is a total nightmare.

I signed up for the 25MB package and Freetime World Pack which is €42pm. The half price deal is €21pm for the first two months. All well and good.

My first bill came in less than a week after I had BB set up, and before my phone was ported over to UPC. It was for €15.13.
Fibre Power 25 - €4.67
Telephony - €7.47
Non Direct Debit Charge - €2.99

I rang them and eventually, they told me I was in credit by €24.87. I was informed that as I ws in credit, my next bill would be zero and the remaining credit (€3.87) applied to my third bill, making that bill €17.13. That would bring me into September and my October bill would then go back up to €42.00pm.

Well, my second bill arrived today and it was for €51.82. I've just got off the phone with them and apparently they bill you in advance. The break-down is as follows and is very difficult to understand:

Two months and two days - €86.82
(Phone - €14.46 and Pack - €72.36 = €86.82)
Credits in Savings and Discounts - €36.21
Further credit that was overlooked - €5.79
(€36.21 + €5.79 = €42.00)
So, €86.82 - €42.00 = €44.82
Calls I made - €0.85
New balance - €45.67

According to UPC, I now owe them €46.12 (???)
And next month I will owe them approx. €44.00, they cannot accurately predict.

Where exactly am I making my savings, or am I missing something? I spent a long time on the phone with them, and it's still clear as mud.:mad:

Thats UPC for you. Even the Customer service agents don't understand the billing system. Bet if you call them again and speak to someone else they will tell you something different.

dub45

There is absolutely no excuse for any company (not just broadband ones) having a billing "system" that is not readily understandable to a customer.

And it is particularly lamentable when company staff are not trained sufficiently to deal competently with customer inquiries on billing.

It would seem from reading posts here that UPC are beginning to show strains with their billing system and in particular with recent offers.

For years here we would see monthly how BT coupled an excellent BB product with an absolutely disastrous billing system which literally cause havoc for many people.

UPC might say that they are gaining new customers etc and this puts strain on a system. Thats their problem not the customers.

Remember if you are not happy with a bill and wish to dispute it you are entitled to instruct UPC or whoever your company is not to direct debit your account for that particular bill until you are satisfied - this is an integral part of the direct debit system.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/DirectDebitScheme

Originators Must:


.......


Ensure that disputed amounts are not debited

Apart from maintaining the integrity of your bank account - which often suffers under the dd scheme - this proviso is an incentive for companies to sort out their billing problems early. If a company can bill as it wishes with the excuse that they will sort it out in the next bill then all you get is an ongoing mess and loads of hassle for the customer.

If you have a billing problem with UPC (or any company involving a dd payment) and you are not happy with the proposed billing amount then I would strongly suggest that you email them to the effect that in accordance with the dd scheme you do not wish to have the proposed amount debited to your account and that you will be happy to pay them when the matter has been sorted out.

cardol

I don't understand why I am being charged for the "pack". It wasn't mentioned when I signed up, it wasn't mentioned anywhere on the website or during any phonecalls. But all of a sudden, I'm being told they always charge for the "pack" and as I wasn't billed for that on my first bill, it's being added on to my second bill.
They take the money from my account on the 9th Sept, and I think I will ring them and instruct them not to. However, I have no guarantee they will follow those instructions. The only thing the person on the phone kept saying to me was that I am not being overcharged. But there was a lot of sighing on her part when I kept asking for explanations for the costs.
Their billing system is a joke. :mad:

If UPC: Jason is reading this, I would appreciate an explanation!

Virgin Media: Jason

Hi cardol

Please pm me your account number and I can pull the call recording of when you ordered, so I can be sure what you ordered initially, and what was explained to you. I can then have somebody from billing talk to you directly ( billing is not my area)

Regards

Jason

cardol wrote: »

I don't understand why I am being charged for the "pack". It wasn't mentioned when I signed up, it wasn't mentioned anywhere on the website or during any phonecalls. But all of a sudden, I'm being told they always charge for the "pack" and as I wasn't billed for that on my first bill, it's being added on to my second bill.
They take the money from my account on the 9th Sept, and I think I will ring them and instruct them not to. However, I have no guarantee they will follow those instructions. The only thing the person on the phone kept saying to me was that I am not being overcharged. But there was a lot of sighing on her part when I kept asking for explanations for the costs.
Their billing system is a joke. :mad:

If UPC: Jason is reading this, I would appreciate an explanation!

dub45

cardol wrote: »

I don't understand why I am being charged for the "pack". It wasn't mentioned when I signed up, it wasn't mentioned anywhere on the website or during any phonecalls. But all of a sudden, I'm being told they always charge for the "pack" and as I wasn't billed for that on my first bill, it's being added on to my second bill.
They take the money from my account on the 9th Sept, and I think I will ring them and instruct them not to. However, I have no guarantee they will follow those instructions. The only thing the person on the phone kept saying to me was that I am not being overcharged. But there was a lot of sighing on her part when I kept asking for explanations for the costs.
Their billing system is a joke. :mad:

If UPC: Jason is reading this, I would appreciate an explanation!

Unfortunately it is easy for a bill payer to feel passive or out of control with the dd system and this of course suits companies. This is not supposed to be the case as I pointed out above there is provision in the scheme for disputed amounts not to be debited.

I suggest you email UPC immediately and tell them you are disputing the amount in question and that you are withdrawing permission for the amount in question to be debited. An email will give you a record of this instruction.

UPC in signing up to the dd system accepted its conditions and are obliged to comply with such an instruction. Such an email does not of course absolve you from paying whatever amount is due when you are satisfied.

Remember your bank account is yours and you are entitled to be in control of it. Signing a direct debit mandate does not give companies carte blanche to access your account.

Full details of the dd scheme are available here:

http://www.ipso.ie/section/DirectDebits

and the bill payers rights:

http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer

Often companies are shamefully (and conveniently) unaware of the rules of the scheme while the level of ignorance of bank staff (at all levels) of the scheme is quite shocking.

cardol

Does anyone have an email address for UPC?

I PM'd UPC:Jason and he replied saying someone was looking into this today and I would get a call. Since the Billing Team leave at 5.30pm, I'm not waiting anymore.

I've filled in their online form, and instructed them to NOT debit my account until I am happy that I'm getting what I signed up for without the hidden costs. The automatic response is someone will get back to me within 2 working days. I have until Friday before they attempt to debit my account, although I will be phoning the bank tomorrow morning and instructing them to refuse the Direct Debit payment, pending resolution of course.

I think I will also ring UPC on Friday and pay them €21 over the phone, since that was my original quote for the first 2 months.

Sir Oxman

dub45 wrote: »

There is absolutely no excuse for any company (not just broadband ones) having a billing "system" that is not readily understandable to a customer.

And it is particularly lamentable when company staff are not trained sufficiently to deal competently with customer inquiries on billing.

It would seem from reading posts here that UPC are beginning to show strains with their billing system and in particular with recent offers.

For years here we would see monthly how BT coupled an excellent BB product with an absolutely disastrous billing system which literally cause havoc for many people.

UPC might say that they are gaining new customers etc and this puts strain on a system. Thats their problem not the customers.

Remember if you are not happy with a bill and wish to dispute it you are entitled to instruct UPC or whoever your company is not to direct debit your account for that particular bill until you are satisfied - this is an integral part of the direct debit system.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/DirectDebitScheme



Apart from maintaining the integrity of your bank account - which often suffers under the dd scheme - this proviso is an incentive for companies to sort out their billing problems early. If a company can bill as it wishes with the excuse that they will sort it out in the next bill then all you get is an ongoing mess and loads of hassle for the customer.

If you have a billing problem with UPC (or any company involving a dd payment) and you are not happy with the proposed billing amount then I would strongly suggest that you email them to the effect that in accordance with the dd scheme you do not wish to have the proposed amount debited to your account and that you will be happy to pay them when the matter has been sorted out.

I never knew that dub45!
I've just had three months wrong bills from UPC (higher of course) and frankly I am on an extremely tight budget so asked again and again for them to sort it out before DDing me but kept being told that they could do nothing until the next bill and that it would be credited - well, one wrong amount was then replaced by another wrong amount the next month and so on and as I fully expect another balls up this month, I will be telling them to not DD me (if the amount is wrong again) until they sort it out.
So cheers for that.

PS OP, I used the boards deal here through Jason and it all went very well

cardol

@gambiaman - have you been with UPC for long? I'm just asking because if your bills were always correct, and its just the last 3 that are wrong, then it would seem to suggest UPC are struggling lately.

Sir Oxman

cardol wrote: »

@gambiaman - have you been with UPC for long? I'm just asking because if your bills were always correct, and its just the last 3 that are wrong, then it would seem to suggest UPC are struggling lately.

Just the last three cardol - I dumped the tv when I was out of contract and since then they've billed me for it one month then billed me for a standalone charge (backdated!) when they explicitly told me I wouldn't be charged for it as I have BB and phone.
I've been with them a year and a half now.
I'm going to do what dub45 has outlined regarding my DD if they mess up again this month.

Oh and their bills are indecipherable for the most part, never seen anything like it!

cardol

I've already done what dub45 described. I never knew I could do that!

I was told there was no charges as I was signing up for BB and Phone. Their website says:
A standalone charge of €7.75 applies to all broadband packs not purchased with or added to our TV or Phone service.

dub45

cardol wrote: »

Does anyone have an email address for UPC?

I PM'd UPC:Jason and he replied saying someone was looking into this today and I would get a call. Since the Billing Team leave at 5.30pm, I'm not waiting anymore.

I've filled in their online form, and instructed them to NOT debit my account until I am happy that I'm getting what I signed up for without the hidden costs. The automatic response is someone will get back to me within 2 working days. I have until Friday before they attempt to debit my account, although I will be phoning the bank tomorrow morning and instructing them to refuse the Direct Debit payment, pending resolution of course.

I think I will also ring UPC on Friday and pay them €21 over the phone, since that was my original quote for the first 2 months.

If you are having any dealings with your bank at any stage about the direct debit scheme make sure to arm yourself in advance with chapter and verse from the dd scheme on what you want them to do for you. Most bank staff are completely ignorant of the rules of the scheme. I have had to print off extracts from the scheme for the customer services officer of my own bank in relation to one of the most basic processes of the scheme and thats canceling a direct debit.

Have a look here for more on this type of thing and again information that the ordinary bill payer does not know in relation to their entitlements under the scheme.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056356054

dub45

gambiaman wrote: »

I never knew that dub45!

I've just had three months wrong bills from UPC (higher of course) and frankly I am on an extremely tight budget so asked again and again for them to sort it out before DDing me but kept being told that they could do nothing until the next bill and that it would be credited - well, one wrong amount was then replaced by another wrong amount the next month and so on and as I fully expect another balls up this month, I will be telling them to not DD me (if the amount is wrong again) until they sort it out.
So cheers for that.

PS OP, I used the boards deal here through Jason and it all went very well

Unfortunately there is far too little known about the rights of the bill payer in relation to the direct debit scheme. As I have pointed out on here numerous times there are many serious flaws in the scheme but there are rights for bill payers as there should be, and unfortunately due to ignorance of the scheme most bill payers simply are not asserting their rights and companies thereby get away with behavior which they simply should not get away with.

In particular UPC are expert at exploiting the DD scheme to generate lots of money - if you don't use dd you get charged 3 euros extra per month and if you miss a direct debit you get charged 12 euros a month - a charge which disgracefully UPC do not inform their customers about when they sign up for dd. Given that my information is that up 10% of direct debits are missed every month and that UPC have well over half a million customers you can do your own sums on the tidy little sum this non advised charge generates for UPC every month. Quite shocking that they can get away with such a charge without being required to inform the bill payer upfront.

So it behoves UPC to abide by the rules they sign up to. A reminder of the direct debit guarantee the basis of the scheme:

The Direct Debit Guarantee

The Direct Debit Guarantee will be provided to Payers in the following form:-
· This is a guarantee provided by your own Bank as a Member of the Direct Debit Scheme, in which
Banks and Originators of Direct Debits participate.
· If you authorise payment by Direct Debit, then
o Your Direct Debit Originator will notify you in advance of the amounts to be debited to your
account
o Your Bank will accept and pay such debits, provided that your account has sufficient available
funds
· If it is established that an unauthorised Direct Debit was charged to your account, you are
guaranteed an immediate refund by your Bank of the amount so charged where you notify your
Bank without undue delay on becoming aware of the unauthorised Direct Debit, and in any event
no later than 13 months after the date of debiting of such Direct Debit to your account.
· You are entitled to request a refund of any Variable Direct Debit which exceeded the amount
which you could reasonably have expected, subject to you so requesting your Bank within a period
of 8 weeks from the date of debiting such Direct Debit to your account.
· You can instruct your bank to refuse a Direct Debit payment by writing in good time to your Bank.
· You can cancel the Direct Debit Instruction by writing in good time to your Bank.

I have bolded the points relevant in this instance.

In the scheme there are specific responsibilities for "originators" (that is the company issuing the bill and the dd):

Originators must put in place reliable systems and which will ensure:
o the issuance of correct advance notification as appropriate of amounts to be debited
o that Direct Debits as issued conform to Payer instructions and the Rules of the Scheme
o that disputed amounts are not debited
o that procedures for terminating the Direct Debit are put in place

So there is no excuse for any company to tell a customer that a billing issue cannot be sorted out until after the next bill has been issued.

The purpose of the minimum advance notice (14 days normally or a disgraceful 7 days in the so called dd plus) is to allow a customer to bring billing issues to the attention of the company and for the company to correct any of those issues which prove to be correct before the account is debited.

Remind these companies that as a bill payer you have specific rights under the scheme which through their participation in the dd scheme they have agreed to respect.

If you have any billing issues and pay by dd no matter who the company is stand your ground, and contact ipso if the company refuses to comply with its obligations under the scheme. Ask to speak to the dd scheme manager. www.ipso.ie

This is supposedly the philosophy which underlies the scheme:

IRECC will seek to ensure that maintaining the integrity of and trust in the Direct Debit Scheme will be
a foremost guiding principle in all deliberations in relation to the Scheme. In this regard, it is an
intrinsic and fundamental element of the Scheme that each Payer will have an assurance that when
he/she/it provides a Direct Debit Instruction, procedures are in place under or pursuant to the Scheme
to protect his/her/its interest.

cardol

Further to your post @dub45, Your Rights As A Payer state:

"You can request your bank to refuse a direct debit payment on your account up to close of business the day before the direct debit is due to be paid from your account"

Essential for me at the moment as time is of the essence!:)

cardol

Well it seems that I am rightly screwed!

I have just got off the phone with my bank to stop this particular payment to UPC, and my bank have said there is no link to UPC in my list of Direct Debits.

Thay said that as I had given UPC my bank details over the phone, thay are what is known in banking circles as an Originator+. The reason I did this over the phone was because UPC charged me €2.99 as non-Direct-Debit-charge. (see post #11).

My bank have said there is absolutely nothing I can do except wait for UPC to activate the Direct Debit Mandate and then I can try to get the money back. They believe UPC will try to activate the DDM and take the money from my account all in one action.

So because I gave them my bank details, and they have not yet set up the link, I can do absolutely nothing.

Does anyone here know what I can do here? My bank have said my only way to stop UPC having access to my account is to cancel my account in person in the bank and set up a new account.

The fact that UPC can go into my account and take an amount that is being disputed, and I can do nothing, seems wrong.

dub45

cardol wrote: »

Well it seems that I am rightly screwed!

I have just got off the phone with my bank to stop this particular payment to UPC, and my bank have said there is no link to UPC in my list of Direct Debits.

Thay said that as I had given UPC my bank details over the phone, thay are what is known in banking circles as an Originator+. The reason I did this over the phone was because UPC charged me €2.99 as non-Direct-Debit-charge. (see post #11).

My bank have said there is absolutely nothing I can do except wait for UPC to activate the Direct Debit Mandate and then I can try to get the money back. They believe UPC will try to activate the DDM and take the money from my account all in one action.

So because I gave them my bank details, and they have not yet set up the link, I can do absolutely nothing.

Does anyone here know what I can do here? My bank have said my only way to stop UPC having access to my account is to cancel my account in person in the bank and set up a new account.

The fact that UPC can go into my account and take an amount that is being disputed, and I can do nothing, seems wrong.

As I pointed out earlier there are flaws in the dd system and you are beginning to see them.

Firstly to explain the difference at least as I understand it:

The ordinary direct debit (the original type) required a signed paper dd mandate from the customer which was forwarded by the company to the customers bank when it had been set up on the company's system. This meant that the bank had a paper record of all dds set up on customers account. Another important feature of the "paper mandate" system is that the minimum notice is 14 days. Also you cancel the "paper mandate" dd by contacting your bank. It is also advisable to inform the company. However there is (or should be!) a system in place for the bank to contact the company and inform them when a customer cancels a dd.

Now the so called the dd+ (which as you are finding out is actually full of minuses) refers to a dd which is taken out over the phone directly with the company and does not require a paper mandate to be filed with the bank. Since the commencement of the "plus" scheme there has been much confusion in bank branches which is pretty predictable given that most staff dont understand the original one never mind the newer one.

Another very serious flaw in the plus scheme is that a company is only required to give seven days notice before a dd hits the customers account.
I cannot fathom how this was ever agreed to as it guarantees virtually no notice to the customer as in any seven day period two days are lost to a weekend and the dd information is actually submitted to the banks three days in advance of the date due.

Also (and there are contradictions on this on the website you cancel the dd plus by contacting the company rather than the bank).

Anyway irrespective of whether or not its a dd+ or an ordinary dd the rules of the dd scheme refer to it so in the first instance UPC should not request payment of a disputed amount or they are in breach of the dd scheme rules.

Secondly your bank has a responsibility to guarantee the integrity of your account full stop. In actual fact there are very serious flaws in the banking system in terms of access to the customers accounts and for example it is possible for a company to reinstate a cancelled dd and the banking system cannot stop it!

This has been acknowledged to me in writing by the dd manager and they have no plans to address it! So the air of helplessness presented by your bank is not a surprise but it is not good enough.

First thing tomorrow contact the dd manager at IPSO (Mr Michael O'Neill - 01 6636740 - http://www.ipso.ie/section/IPSOStaff ) and ask him what the hell is going on in the light of the information given on the website in terms of the guarantees given to bill payers and the abject helplessness presented by the bank to you.

Tell him that if this matter is not addressed to your immediate satisfaction that you will be on the Joe Duffy show on Monday afternoon with a scathing attack on the dd scheme and that you will be making a formal complaint to the Financial Regulator about the "lies" that are being presented to people on the website and the reality you have experienced from your bank.

You could even email him this evening so that he can be prepared when you ring tomorrow - oneillm@ipso.ie. You could include a link to this thread so that he will know that you have been properly briefed on your rights.

I would also take your bank to task and ask them why can they not guarantee the integrity of your account. After all isnt that the least we should be able to expect from our banks?

Another point to bear in mind is that there are no sanctions ever taken against member companies of the dd scheme no matter what they do so company staff know that they can behave with impunity and have nothing to fear.

cardol

dub45 wrote: »

Secondly your bank has a responsibility to guarantee the integrity of your account full stop. In actual fact there are very serious flaws in the banking system in terms of access to the customers accounts and for example it is possible for a company to reinstate a cancelled dd and the banking system cannot stop it!

This has been acknowledged to me in writing by the dd manager and they have no plans to address it! So the air of helplessness presented by your bank is not a surprise but it is not good enough.

My bank said that as they cannot see UPC on my list of DD's, they cannot stop any payments UPC may try to initiate. Also, should UPC activate the DDM in the next few days, my bank cannot flag up the the fact that I am disputing their access to my account. I actually read out sections from the IPSO website and the person on the phone put me on hold while he rang my local branch and also "spoke to someone senior" about this issue.

dub45 wrote: »

First thing tomorrow contact the dd manager at IPSO (Mr Michael O'Neill - 01 6636740 - http://www.ipso.ie/section/IPSOStaff ) and ask him what the hell is going on in the light of the information given on the website in terms of the guarantees given to bill payers and the abject helplessness presented by the bank to you.

Tell him that if this matter is not addressed to your immediate satisfaction that you will be on the Joe Duffy show on Monday afternoon with a scathing attack on the dd scheme and that you will be making a formal complaint to the Financial Regulator about the "lies" that are being presented to people on the website and the reality you have experienced from your bank.

I was told that even if I went to the FR, there would be nothing they could do. I was told I could go to the Consumer Rights Assoc. of Ireland http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights.html but in the short term, it wouldn't stop UPC having access to my account. The whole issue seems to stem from the fact that UPC have not activated the DDM and therefore, the bank cannot see them.

Personally, I'm wondering if UPC do this deliberately? They charge you immediately you sign up for not having set up DD payments, knowing most people will simply get on the phone to complain, and then they say you can set it up over the phone and they will cancel the charge.

dub45 wrote: »

You could even email him this evening so that he can be prepared when you ring tomorrow - oneillm@ipso.ie. You could include a link to this thread so that he will know that you have been properly briefed on your rights.

I would also take your bank to task and ask them why can they not guarantee the integrity of your account. After all isnt that the least we should be able to expect from our banks?

I mentioned the fact that my bank charge me €12 per quarter to handle my money but cannot protect my money when I instruct them to, and was told that was just the way the system works. The person said he would file my complaint. But in the event that I would want to recoup the money from UPC, that would be between me and the company. He said he will make a note on my file that I objected to the fact I couldn't protect my account from companies like UPC who seem to want to remain invisible up until the last minute.

cardol

Dear Mr. O'Neill

I am writing to you regarding my rights as a Payer as per rules set out on the Irish Payment Service Organisation website.

I am disputing a bill from UPC where they have added extra charges to my account and their reasoning is "because we always do". I am trying to stop this payment but my bank (Permanent TSB) say that cannot happen because UPC have not yet activated the Direct Debit Mandate and therefore do not show up on my list of Direct Debits.

They said that as I gave UPC my bank details over the phone, that makes UPC and Originator+, and because no paperwork is involved, I now cannot prevent UPC from activating the Direct Debit Mandate and taking money from my account.

TSB have said I have two options:

I can watch my account 24 hours for the next few days and if I see UPC showing on my list of Direct Debits, I can ring Open24, (which is 8am-10pm Monday to Friday, and 10am-2pm Saturday) and hope to stop the payment providing it's not already in transit.

I can go into my local branch and cancel my account completely, set up a new account, transfer my existing Direct Debit payments to my new account and wait for various card services to become active, which would generally take a week.


Neither one of these two options is viable in any respect, so I would be grateful if you could clarify what exactly my rights are in this situation, as opposed to UPC's rights to access my money? I have done some reading on this issue courtesy of posts on this link - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74270799#post74270799 - but the bank doesn't seem to be aware of your website and guarantees.

Given the fact that I am paying almost €50 per year to the bank to handle my money, I want to know why my account is not protected to my satisfaction.

As this issue is urgent, if I do not hear back from you by 2pm tomorrow I will contact you on 01 6636740.

Yours sincerely

**********
Phone number

Interesting sidenote re Micheal O'Neill as per the IPSO website: "Michael was the main driver in developing the Paperless Direct Debit proposition and the next day value service for single-shot payments".

dub45

cardol wrote: »

Dear Mr. O'Neill

I am writing to you regarding my rights as a Payer as per rules set out on the Irish Payment Service Organisation website.

I am disputing a bill from UPC where they have added extra charges to my account and their reasoning is "because we always do". I am trying to stop this payment but my bank (Permanent TSB) say that cannot happen because UPC have not yet activated the Direct Debit Mandate and therefore do not show up on my list of Direct Debits.

They said that as I gave UPC my bank details over the phone, that makes UPC and Originator+, and because no paperwork is involved, I now cannot prevent UPC from activating the Direct Debit Mandate and taking money from my account.

TSB have said I have two options:

I can watch my account 24 hours for the next few days and if I see UPC showing on my list of Direct Debits, I can ring Open24, (which is 8am-10pm Monday to Friday, and 10am-2pm Saturday) and hope to stop the payment providing it's not already in transit.

I can go into my local branch and cancel my account completely, set up a new account, transfer my existing Direct Debit payments to my new account and wait for various card services to become active, which would generally take a week.


Neither one of these two options is viable in any respect, so I would be grateful if you could clarify what exactly my rights are in this situation, as opposed to UPC's rights to access my money? I have done some reading on this issue courtesy of posts on this link - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74270799#post74270799 - but the bank doesn't seem to be aware of your website and guarantees.

Given the fact that I am paying almost €50 per year to the bank to handle my money, I want to know why my account is not protected to my satisfaction.

As this issue is urgent, if I do not hear back from you by 2pm tomorrow I will contact you on 01 6636740.

Yours sincerely

**********
Phone number

Interesting sidenote re Micheal O'Neill as per the IPSO website: "Michael was the main driver in developing the Paperless Direct Debit proposition and the next day value service for single-shot payments".

Indeed he has a lot to answer for! It is an absurd system and completely unnecessary. IPSO seem to think that it is ok for companies to do as they wish on the basis that you will get your money bqck - this is simply not good enough. Imagine what would happen to any customer who managed to access the bank account of their bb supplier? I somehow don't think that UPC(or any other company) would be too impressed with their bank telling them we can't stop your accounts being accessed!

It is quite astonishing that a bank cannot guarantee the integrity of a customers bank account. An old fashioned cheque can be "stopped" but they suggest to you cancelling your account etc etc? Utter nonsense.

You have specifically instructed UPC not to debit your account. Therefore they have no permission from you to access your account and just like where companies reinstate dds which have been cancelled any attempt to access the customer's account should be regarded as attempted theft and dealt with accordingly but unfortunately it is not viewed like this by the banks.

And this prisoner of the system lark really infuriates me. A system is nothing more than a particular way of doing things based on decisions made by management. You would think that the system was in total control of everything. If a system is lousy it needs to be changed not obeyed.

By the way IPSO in the person of Mr O'Neill are only too well aware of the appalling lack of knowledge of the dd system amongst bank staff. And it is only in the recent past that IPSO put any consumer orientated information on their website. As far as I can see there is no briefing information for staff available in bank branches on the dd system. Most bank staff havent a clue who IPSO are either.

And last but not least "file your complaint" idiotic statement - what exactly is that going to do? bury your complaint more likely.

cardol

All I can hope for now is that UPC contact me tomorrow as they said in their automatic response to my email, (Your request will be handled by a member of our team within 2 working days) and until I can speak to someone and get these extra charges cancelled, then they shouldn't take any money from my account. However, it's doubtful they will act on the email.

And UPC: Jason is being very quiet about all this, saying billing is not his area. He told me on Tuesday there was someone looking into it that day, and that I would get a call from a Billing Team Member.

dub45

Well let's hope that UPC comply with your instruction and honour their obligations under the dd scheme. As i pointed out above they are very quick to penalise their customers when a dd is not met (with a charge that the customer is not made aware of when they take out the dd) unfortunately it is not possible for customers to impose such penalties on errant companies.

It should be pointed out forcibly to Mr O'Neill seeing as he is responsible for masterminding the dd+ scheme that a customer taking out a dd+ should not be unwittingly compromising the integrity of their bank account.

And getting money back which should not have been taken in the first place is not a solution.

cardol

dub45 wrote: »

It should be pointed out forcibly to Mr O'Neill seeing as he is responsible for masterminding the dd+ scheme that a customer taking out a dd+ should not be unwittingly compromising the integrity of their bank account.

Couldn't agree more!

cardol

After a lot of emails to and fro from Michael O'Neill today and a few phonecalls from myself to banks, my local branch emailed me a Direct Debit Claim Form which I filled in and emailed back. They would like me to come in tomorrow anyway and sign a form. Then they say they will be able to stop the payment to UPC.

It's two days after I received an acknowledgement of my email to UPC where they said they would contact me within two working days. Still not heard from them.......

dub45

cardol wrote: »

After a lot of emails to and fro from Michael O'Neill today and a few phonecalls from myself to banks, my local branch emailed me a Direct Debit Claim Form which I filled in and emailed back. They would like me to come in tomorrow anyway and sign a form. Then they say they will be able to stop the payment to UPC.

It's two days after I received an acknowledgement of my email to UPC where they said they would contact me within two working days. Still not heard from them.......

It is absurd the lengths that you have had to go to in this matter. It appears to make a mockery of the assurances on the IPSO website too.

It just confirms all the fears I have long had about the direct debit system and also confirms that the customer comes a very poor third after the companies and the banks in the scheme.

Did the DD manager give any explanation as to why it was necessary for you to go to such lengths to preserve the integrity of your bank account?

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

cardol

It was interesting how when I had to ring the bank call centre and my local branch, they still maintained they couldn't do naything. Even when I said I'd been in contact with IPSO and Michael O'Neill. They went off, spoke to someone senior, and came back and still said no.
So I told Michael O'Neill this and he contacted my local branch and then emailed me to say it was passed on to PTSB Head Office and they would contact me.
By 16:40, when I still had heard nothing back, I emailed him to say. I waited a few minutes because he was normally very quick replying to me, and when I heard notthing from him, I rang his office and was told he was in a meeting. His secretary seemed to know what it was about when I briefly described it, and contacted PTSB Head Office and then rang me back to say HO would call me.
When they did a few minutes later, they had been in contact with my local bramch and said someone from there would contact me. And they did a few minutes later. They said it was no problem to stop the payment, they have ways to do it. All of this was happening very fast as it was getting up to 17:00. They sent the form, I filled it in and sent it back.

But the amazing thing afaic is that no-one lower down the ranks knew this payment could be stopped despite all of them speaking to "someone senior". But when I got higher up, things happened at breakneck speed and the general impression I got was that there is no problem stopping the payment and I had nothing to worry about. In short, I could relax. There was laughs all around!

I've decided I'm not going to give any company my bank details over the phone anymore.

jor el

I think the DD issues thing has been done to death at this stage (and applies to all companies, not just UPC), and since this thread has shown that the UPC Boards offer is alive and well, it's run it's course.