CIRA announce ceasefire

dlofnep

Let's hope it's for good.

"As a result of intense consultation that has taken place over recent months, and inaccordance with the constitution of Oglaigh na hEireann, the volunteers of Oglaigh na hEireann, have determined a cessation of military activity. This cessation will take effectfrom midnight, 17 August 2011.

The resolution of the conflict in our country demands justice. A first step must be the full restoration of political status for Irish Prisoners of War. Our POWs cannot be broken or criminalised.Oglaigh na hEireann, is committed to ending British rule in Ireland. It is the root cause of divisions and conflict in our country.

The puppet parliaments in Belfast and Dublin have illustrated that meaningful peace and sovereignty will never be fully achieved in Ireland until British interference is completely removed.The Army Council of Oglaigh na hEireann, in consultation with volunteers and the wider Republican community, will review the ceasefire in due course.All IRA units have been instructed accordingly."

Source: Saoirse Magazine

Wolfe Tone

This is really confusing, which CIRA is this?

Republican Sinn Féin has stated that a statement sent from its e-mail address and saying that the Continuity IRA had called a ceasefire was “bogus”.

Republican Sinn Féin, viewed as the political wing of the Continuity IRA, said yesterday that its e-mail was “hacked”, which resulted in the “bogus” ceasefire being sent to some media outlets.

“We have been informed by people in the broadcast and print media that a bogus statement was sent out from our e-mail address on August 14th.

“No such statement was sent out by Republican Sinn Féin and steps have been taken to rectify the situation,” it added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0816/1224302524304.html



If what you say is correct I am very surprised! It would be a positive step towards sorting the prison issues out though.

KeithAFC

They are trying to be the last group to leave the stage but it won't happen.

Liam Byrne

KeithAFC wrote: »

They are trying to be the last group to leave the stage but it won't happen.

As long as they don't demand an unwanted encore.

Re POWs, well if there's anyone in prison because of their beliefs or voicing their opinion, then the term applies, but if they start making demands re the criminals who maimed and murdered innocent people then hopefully they'll be told where to go......we've already had to stomach one amnesty for those types and CIRA and their types refused to avail of it.

Their choice, their tough.

Happyman42

Liam Byrne wrote: »

for those types and CIRA and their types

'Those types' and 'their types'???? What types would they be.............

Oh yes! I forgot, Liam lives in Liam's wee high moral ground republic, given him in a fairy tale by a benevolent Queen without a single drop of blood being spilled or a cross word said.
Must be magnificent to be an extra in moral high ground fairy tales?:rolleyes:

OS119

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

This is really confusing, which CIRA is this?...

indeed. at least in the past the different groups had the manners to give themselves different names - OIRA/PIRA/RIRA/CIRA/etc - these buggers (some of whom may well be one man bands) all use ONH in various forms!

the language and spelling used in the ceacefire statement are politically and linguisticly correct for a Republican organisation - it is unlikely to the work of some 17 yo from the Shankhill roaring up on Bucky.

its unlikely to be a 'professional' hacking for the purposes of sowing discord by GCHQ/MI5/AGS - these groups are all very small, the individuals involved would know whether a ceasefire was in the offing or not, and therefore know that it was fake from the get go. GCHQ/MI5/AGS know this, so wouldn't bother making themselves look silly.

yet another split?

FTA69

The Continuity IRA has been a military disaster since its inception, it's been more a vehicle for sending young people to jail than it has been to resist British rule. Personally I believe all Republican organisations have clicked on to the fact that open political activism is the only way to mobilise Irish people in any meaningful way; as such we have seen the likes of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement attempt to become more active etc. Hopefully other Republicans will give up this futile armed campaign.

sollar

Maybe they are all being transferred to the Real IRA. Like an acquisition in business

Sunnyisland

solar wrote: »

Maybe they are all being transferred to the Real IRA. Like an acquisition in business

Could be right there as its known that on occasions they have operated together,But has been said these small groups are splitting and forming again every few months,Unfortunately only time will tell if a bigger more organised group has been formed.

blahfckingblah

yea sollar, sounds funny bein put that way but it is a possibility that they realised that whatever effect they may have as they are (split) they would vastly improve efficiency by being one bigger group. saying that, i reckon the majority of these groups are severly crippled by the intelligence known by the police.

Wolfe Tone

OS119 wrote: »

indeed. at least in the past the different groups had the manners to give themselves different names - OIRA/PIRA/RIRA/CIRA/etc - these buggers (some of whom may well be one man bands) all use ONH in various forms!

the language and spelling used in the ceacefire statement are politically and linguisticly correct for a Republican organisation - it is unlikely to the work of some 17 yo from the Shankhill roaring up on Bucky.

its unlikely to be a 'professional' hacking for the purposes of sowing discord by GCHQ/MI5/AGS - these groups are all very small, the individuals involved would know whether a ceasefire was in the offing or not, and therefore know that it was fake from the get go. GCHQ/MI5/AGS know this, so wouldn't bother making themselves look silly.

yet another split?

There are currently two CIRAs on the go afaik, the Limerick lads and then the regular CIRA, RSF (real and republican!) are both a mess at this stage.

Wolfe Tone

Dunno whats going on now...

This is the screenshot doing the rounds...



A photoshop? This is the August edition here:

http://www.saoirse.info/attachments/File/aug11.pdf

FTA69

I read on a different site that this was a fake.

vellocet

FTA69 wrote: »

I read on a different site that this was a fake.

Who would bother? Is it really worth a broken kneecap to play that sort of 'jape'?

Wolfe Tone

I dont think anyone would notice any difference if they did go on a ceasefire anyway.

KeithAFC

Why are people from Dublin and other such places in the Republic telling the Ulstermen and women in Northern Ireland that they want a UI and basically don't care how they get it. All these little split fractions going on in the Republican movement is just a joke. As if they think that will make a difference.

I think it has been made pretty clear enough on this issue and the RIRA or CIRA isn't going to rattle the people who want to remain in the UK.

Coillte_Bhoy

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why are people from Dublin and other such places in the Republic telling the Ulstermen and women in Northern Ireland that they want a UI and basically don't care how they get it. All these little split fractions going on in the Republican movement is just a joke. As if they think that will make a difference.

I think it has been made pretty clear enough on this issue and the RIRA or CIRA isn't going to rattle the people who want to remain in the UK.

What??? So the CIRA are purely Dublin based?? What exactly has been made pretty clear cos you sure as hell aren't very clear in your post? By the way your grammar is atrocious.

KeithAFC

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

What??? So the CIRA are purely Dublin based?? What exactly has been made pretty clear cos you sure as hell aren't very clear in your post? By the way your grammar is atrocious.

Not purely based and I ain't just talking about the CIRA in this but little split groups like Éirígí who are talking from Dublin on the situation in Northern Ireland.

The CIRA and RIRA feed off these groups and they are a way for them to get the message they want to put across out into the public domain.

Wolfe Tone

This would be the Éirígí who oppose armed campaign yeah?

Coillte_Bhoy

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not purely based and I ain't just talking about the CIRA in this but little split groups like Éirígí who are talking from Dublin on the situation in Northern Ireland.

The CIRA and RIRA feed off these groups and they are a way for them to get the message they want to put across out into the public domain.

Eirigi is an all Ireland organisation, they are not purely Dublin based, and i'm sorry but i just understand your point (highlghted). Please try and be semi articulate at least

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

This would be the Éirígí who oppose armed campaign yeah?

Do you really believe that? I don't think these little groups honestly would care if the Troubles started again or not.

They obviously don't care too much because they thought the Queen visiting the Republic of Ireland was a bad idea when most people thought it was a good idea in general. Out of touch with reality?

They are probably the most pointless political parties on this island be it politics from the Republic or Northern Ireland. The CIRA or RIRA use them to get statements out. That seems to be all they are good for.

KeithAFC

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Eirigi is an all Ireland organisation, they are not purely Dublin based, and i'm sorry but i just understand your point (highlghted). Please try and be semi articulate at least

I don't see how you are struggling to understand this. It is simple. The RIRA or CIRA are using "political parties" like the 32CSM to get their message out into the public domain.

That to me seems to be the only reason they exist. What else do they offer politics?

Wolfe Tone

You are showing up your ignorance here Keith. I think it may be you that is out of tuch with reality.


The reals have the 32CSM, contos have republican Sinn Fein, or real Sinn fein or whatever. They dont need eirigi.

Eirigi oppose armed campaign, simple as.

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

You are showing up your ignorance here Keith. I think it may be you that is out of tuch with reality.


The reals have the 32CSM, contos have republican Sinn Fein, or real Sinn fein or whatever. They dont need eirigi.

Eirigi oppose armed campaign, simple as.

Republican Sinn Fein, that is them. It has to be said, Eirigi do say the same sort of stuff the dissidents say. You might think they oppose armed campaign but I don't think too many people would believe that.

There is so many of these little groups it is hard to keep up with them all. Why so many? That would be my main question if i was a Republican. Is it perhaps a way of getting the propaganda out from the CIRA or RIRA by using different little parties? I think so.

Wolfe Tone

Meh, believe what you want Keith, I'm off to bed.

JustinDee

Somebody should tell them that we've already got an "Oglaigh na hEireann" and that they have never represented the wishes of the majority on this island.

Next step is to dissolve and quite simply f**k off.

FUNKY LOVER

This limerick crowd really are an embarassment,they are going around using the ira name purely for financial gain.

Of course the media lap it up and paint all republicans the same.At least 10 of them were caught trying to extort money,and have been found out to be nothing but a bogus group.

OS119

KeithAFC wrote: »

blah...

thanks, yet another potentially interesting and informative thread scrawled over by you and dragged wildly off topic.

cheers.

I Cant Believe Its Not the IRA (ICBINIRA) will not be happy with this .

Liam Byrne

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

This limerick crowd really are an embarassment,they are going around using the ira name purely for financial gain.

Of course the media lap it up and paint all republicans the same.At least 10 of them were caught trying to extort money,and have been found out to be nothing but a bogus group.

Guess that's what happens when you fight their corner and collect them from prison - they start to believe their own bull and "cause".

FTA69

First of all, Éirigi have absolutely nothing to do with armed campaigns or armed groups, this is the hard fact of the matter regardless of attempts by Sinn Féin or the Independent Monitoring Commission to lump Éirigi in with this crowd in the hope of discrediting them.

Secondly from what I can gather this statement was declared a fake by the CIRA's political wing. Besides, it doesn't really matter anyway; it's just another fiasco emanating from this farcical carry on.

dlofnep

So it's all a hoax in the end. Meh.

blahfckingblah

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

This would be the Éirígí who oppose armed campaign yeah?

nah maybe its the Eirigi who's first political candidates ran in Belfast

Wolfe Tone

http://www.herald.ie/news/cira-ceasefire-claims-planted-by-web-hackers-2861441.html

end a eknny

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Guess that's what happens when you fight their corner and collect them from prison - they start to believe their own bull and "cause".

makes no sense

end a eknny

JustinDee wrote: »

Somebody should tell them that we've already got an "Oglaigh na hEireann" and that they have never represented the wishes of the majority on this island.

Next step is to dissolve and quite simply f**k off.

it was never about representing the ( sit on your cushy free state arse and dont rock the boat) majority. it was about fighting for what is right

Liam Byrne

end a eknny wrote: »

makes no sense

The poster I was replying to highlighted the fact that "the Limerick crowd" were just criminals.

However they got support from Sinn Fein.

My point was that if criminals are given an air of legitimacy by erroneously associating them with a cause, they'll start to believe it themselves, even if no-one else does.

Makes perfect sense.

Wolfe Tone

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The poster I was replying to highlighted the fact that "the Limerick crowd" were just criminals.

However they got support from Sinn Fein.

My point was that if criminals are given an air of legitimacy by erroneously associating them with a cause, they'll start to believe it themselves, even if no-one else does.

Makes perfect sense.

Seriously Liam, get the facts together.


The "Limerick crowd" are a thoroughly embarrassing, criminal, sometimes racist, generally all round laughable (statements make no sense) split off from Republican Sinn Fein. They are called Real Sinn Fein, but they still call themselves Republican Sinn Fein on occasion.

Remember they had a CIRA member on primetime a while back? He wasn't a CIRA member, he was from the Real CIRA, the armed wing I guess, of "Real Sinn Fein". Yes, the CIRA split too.

Confused yet?

The "Limerick Lads" have nothing to do with Sinn Fein.

Liam Byrne

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Seriously Liam, get the facts together.


The "Limerick crowd" are a thoroughly embarrassing, criminal, sometimes racist, generally all round laughable (statements make no sense) split off from Republican Sinn Fein. They are called Real Sinn Fein, but they still call themselves Republican Sinn Fein on occasion.

Remember they had a CIRA member on primetime a while back? He wasn't a CIRA member, he was from the Real CIRA, the armed wing I guess, of "Real Sinn Fein". Yes, the CIRA split too.

Confused yet?

The "Limerick Lads" have nothing to do with Sinn Fein.

OK - so they have nothing to do with the criminal thugs that Martin Ferris collected from jail ?

My mistake was based on the location and the description that their actions were criminal and nothing whatsoever to do with any "cause".

I stand corrected.

Son Of A Vidic

I have always found the likes of the CIRA and Republican Sinn Fein as laughable organisations really. Especially their pontificating at the PIRA, who actually fought a war with the British and reached a peaceful compromise.

JustinDee

end a eknny wrote: »

it was never about representing the ( sit on your cushy free state arse and dont rock the boat) majority. it was about fighting for what is right

Oglaigh na hEireann is the Irish Defence Force aka the Irish Army.

The majority on this island voted for a peaceful compromise. Anything else that flies in the face of that wish, especially by ways of paramilitary violence, is fascism.

FTA69

JustinDee wrote: »

Oglaigh na hEireann is the Irish Defence Force aka the Irish Army.

Meh, I was never a big one to get hung up on titles but in my opinion Óglaigh na hÉireann is the IRA, it's a title that precedes the foundation of the Free State Army.

JustinDee

FTA69 wrote: »

Meh, I was never a big one to get hung up on titles but in my opinion Óglaigh na hÉireann is the IRA, it's a title that precedes the foundation of the Free State Army.

You can call that old shower the People's Front of Judea if you like. It won't change the fact that the name in question is the gaelic title of the official army of this country. Unelected and deluded organisations hijacking it to 'legitimise' their actions against the will of the island's inhabitants is nothing new. Just tiresome.

FTA69

JustinDee wrote: »

Unelected and deluded organisations hijacking it to 'legitimise' their actions against the will of the island's inhabitants is nothing new. Just tiresome.

Well if you want to get semantical about the issue it was the Free State Army which hijacked the title after the majority of the IRA rejected the Treaty. Óglaigh na hÉireann was as you know, the original title of the unelected minority who went out in 1916. As I said, the title refers to that of the IRA, it always has, and did so before the Free Staters tried to take the name in 1922.

deise go deo

JustinDee wrote: »

Oglaigh na hEireann is the Irish Defence Force aka the Irish Army.

Its a little bit more complicated than that (is'nt it always) Oglaigh na hÉireann is the Irish for 'Irish Voulenteers', The organization that came before the Old IRA. The Old IRA for its part kept the name 'Oglaigh na hEireann' as the Irish Language version of it name. The Irish Defence Forces consideres its self to be the Legimate successor of the Old IRA, and as such kept the Irish Title 'Oglaigh na hÉireann' as the Irish for their name, as well as several other symbolic links to the Irish Voluenteers.

However the Irish Army was only one Successor to the Old IRA, the Other being the Anti-Treaty IRA of the Civil war, that group arguably had a better claim to being the true successor to the Old IRA because the majority of the Old IRA sided Against the treaty.

Ever since then, every version of the IRA have kept the tradition of using 'Oglaigh na hÉireann' as the Irish version of their name, because they all view themselves as being the true successors to the men of 1916. Who you believe is subjective really, Many would say that only the Irish DF should use it because they are the Legimate army of the Irish Republic, others would say however that the Various IRA's in the North should use it because their goals are much closer to those of 1916.

The majority on this island voted for a peaceful compromise. Anything else that flies in the face of that wish, especially by ways of paramilitary violence, is fascism.

Nonsence, It is wrong, no doubt about that, but its got nothing to do with Fascism. Paramilitrery Violence has existed long before Fascism, and was often used against fascism. The two are far from being one in the same.

Alopex

deise go deo wrote: »

Its a little bit more complicated than that (is'nt it always) Oglaigh na hÉireann is the Irish for 'Irish Voulenteers', The organization that came before the Old IRA. The Old IRA for its part kept the name 'Oglaigh na hEireann' as the Irish Language version of it name. The Irish Defence Forces consideres its self to be the Legimate successor of the Old IRA, and as such kept the Irish Title 'Oglaigh na hÉireann' as the Irish for their name, as well as several other symbolic links to the Irish Voluenteers.

However the Irish Army was only one Successor to the Old IRA, the Other being the Anti-Treaty IRA of the Civil war, that group arguably had a better claim to being the true successor to the Old IRA because the majority of the Old IRA sided Against the treaty.

Ever since then, every version of the IRA have kept the tradition of using 'Oglaigh na hÉireann' as the Irish version of their name, because they all view themselves as being the true successors to the men of 1916. Who you believe is subjective really, Many would say that only the Irish DF should use it because they are the Legimate army of the Irish Republic, others would say however that the Various IRA's in the North should use it because their goals are much closer to those of 1916.

interesting post. what would the literal translation of Irish Republican Army be?

FTA69

Arm Poblachtach na hÉireann, but the organisation has only ever used it's official title of Óglaigh na hÉireann.

JustinDee

deise go deo wrote: »

Its a little bit more...etc

Thanks for the lesson. I'm sure the semantics of assuming a delusionary mantle and ignoring the wishes of the inhabitants then bleating about 'democracy' are all important, especially to the unelected in question and their supporters.

I've read my Orwell, Klein and Paxton, three authors who showed clearly that fascism need not have roots in the extreme right but also in the left.

deise go deo

JustinDee wrote: »

Thanks for the lesson. I'm sure the semantics of assuming a delusionary mantle and ignoring the wishes of the inhabitants then bleating about 'democracy' are all important, especially to the unelected in question and their supporters.

The wishes of the inhabitants, or bleating about democracy are not at issue.

The issue you riased was the right to use the name Oglaigh na hEireann as the name for an organisation.
In that context, the origin of the name, the development of the organisation(s) that use it, and the simalarity/dissimilarity of the organisations that claim the right to use it to the original group that used it, are the relevant issues.

I've read my Orwell, Klein and Paxton, three authors who showed clearly that fascism need not have roots in the extreme right but also in the left.

My contention was not that Facisim must be right wing and can not develop from a left wing ideology.
In its early days Stalinism was described at times as slavic Fascism.

Mussilini, the original creater of Facism was an avid socilaist in his early days, and his books on fascist principles contained many left wing ideas.

My contention was that Fascism and Paramiliterism, wether supported by the majority or not, (and remember Hitler was elected) are not one and the same.

JustinDee

deise go deo wrote: »

The wishes of the inhabitants, or bleating about democracy are not at issue.

The issue you riased was the right to use the name Oglaigh na hEireann as the name for an organisation.
In that context, the origin of the name, the development of the organisation(s) that use it, and the simalarity/dissimilarity of the organisations that claim the right to use it to the original group that used it, are the relevant issues

It is the issue. Almost everything the provos and their splinters claimed to represent has been via deception and false justification and their clambering for the 'right' to be the official Irish military would be laughable if not for the slaughter.

deise go deo wrote: »

My contention was not that Facisim must be right wing and can not develop from a left wing ideology.
In its early days Stalinism was described at times as slavic Fascism.

Mussilini, the original creater of Facism was an avid socilaist in his early days, and his books on fascist principles contained many left wing ideas.

My contention was that Fascism and Paramiliterism, wether supported by the majority or not, (and remember Hitler was elected) are not one and the same.

Why do I feel that I'm being lectured by a wagging wiki?
I never said "fascism" and "paramilitarism" were one and the same. I said the ethos of the provos and their imitators belying the wishes of the majority was fascistic. You going to try and tell me that they ran their areas democratically next? Reminding folk how these people operate is not "bleating".

deise go deo

JustinDee wrote: »

It is the issue. Almost everything the provos and their splinters claimed to represent has been via deception and false justification and their clambering for the 'right' to be the official Irish military would be laughable if not for the slaughter.

I'm not talking about the Various IRA's claiming to be the Official Irish Militery.
The Issue you raised Here:

Oglaigh na hEireann is the Irish Defence Force aka the Irish Army.

Is that only the Irish DF has the right to use the term 'Oglaigh na hEireann' as the name in Irish for their organisation. As I said its more complicated than that, Undoubatedly the term Oglaigh na hÉireann is apt for the Irish DF, and very few people would dispute the DF's right to use it.

But the Various IRA's in the north have as good a reason to use it because of their links with the original organisation to use the title.

Why do I feel that I'm being lectured by a wagging wiki?

I dont know, Why do you feel like that?
What I said was based on a Book on the life of Mussilini I read a few years ago.

I never said "fascism" and "paramilitarism" were one and the same. I said the ethos of the provos and their imitators belying the wishes of the majority was fascistic. You going to try and tell me that they ran their areas democratically next? Reminding folk how these people operate is not "bleating".

What makes you think that going against the wishes of the majority is Fascistic?
Both Hitler and Mussilini came to power with popular support.
Going against the wishes of the majority is undemocratic, but Fascism is quite a different thing.

To be quite honest, Fascism is quite an amorphous ideology, Fascist Italy produced Volumes on Fascist ideology, but supposidly core principles in one volume were often directly contradicted in other Volumes.
What are considered as obvious marks of fascism in the Nazi state, such as anti-semetisim and the beliefe in a master race had no parallel in Fascist Italy or Spain.

Fascist groups often spoke out against democracy, but the reality is that they usually gained most of their power through democratic instutions.