Optimism Thread; We can turn it around!

totallegend

OK, yesterday was a disaster with very few redeeming features from an Irish perspective, but let's look on the bright side of things and hope we can turn it around in the next three weeks in time for the game against Australia.

So what can/should we do? Here's a few suggestions from me anyway:

1) The half-back axis; by my count, Reddan and Sexton have had 17 minutes together in the four warm-up games. Maybe this reflects Kidney's pecking order but it seems illogical to break up a Heineken Cup winning partnership that seemed to click so well against England in the Six Nations. A settled half-back combination would be a start.

2) Every day I'm shovelling; either Kidney or Gaffney need to sit the backs down and explain that when we have the ball, each back should be a metre or two behind the guy inside him. We have to get away from the tactic of shovelling the ball out to the next guy who's standing flat; it's just inviting the opposition to swarm up and nail the guy with the ball, and because Ireland are so flat, they're not coming into the line with any pace.

3) Carry, tackle, offload: If SOB or whoever makes a break, there has to be two or three guys on his shoulder waiting for an offload or at least to blow the tackler out of way to clear quick ball for the scrum-half. We've yet to see this happen in the four matches but if the backs can't generate any yards (see above), this is the only way we're going to get behind the opposition defence.

4) Backs in the backs, forwards in the forwards; whether it's Kidney in the dressing room or O'Driscoll on the pitch, someone has to tell O'Connell to stop standing in the first receiver position. O'Connell's strength is in the tight, not as an open-field carrier or midfield fulcrum of distribution.

5) Get Cian Healy back fit. Cryotherapy, face transplant, whatever it takes.

6) Go into the Australia game with a plan; yesterday, our own lineout was reasonably secure but we did not get near the England ball at any stage, nor did we give France any particular trouble on that front. If we cannot disrupt the opposition throw, then kicking for territory will be suicide against an Australian team that can strike from deep almost at will. When Sexton came on yesterday, he kicked his first three possessions which 100% indicates that this was on Kidney's instructions. It won't work against the Wallabies; we have to keep the ball.

These players have not become bad overnight. The loss of Wallace is a big blow but at least it has come in an area where we have decent cover. Like in the Six Nations, it could all click on the day and we'll turn the Aussies over.

COME ON IRELAND!

LowOdour

there is no place for this kind of thread in the rugby forum...if its not negative its not boards :-)

danthefan

No we can't.

totallegend

danthefan wrote: »

No we can't.

Yes we can

joseywhales

We actually can't, it's too late

Bearcat

Frano's article in the indo captures our problems in a nutshell.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/kidney-needs-a-miracle-to-avoid-complete-disaster-2859923.html

bm1993

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 McFadden
11 Trimble
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
1 Healy
2 Flannery
3 Ross
4 Ferris
5 POC
6 SOB
7 Jennings
8 Heaslip

Funk It

bm1993 wrote: »

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 McFadden
11 Trimble
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
1 Healy
2 Flannery
3 Ross
4 Ferris
5 POC
6 SOB
7 Jennings
8 Heaslip

Can't see McFadden getting the 12 shirt, or Ferris the 4 shirt...

For me, Trimble trys hard but doesn't look like creating any scores and without O'Brien, we don't get over the gainline and put the defense on the back foot

bm1993

Funk It wrote: »

Can't see McFadden getting the 12 shirt, or Ferris the 4 shirt...

For me, Trimble trys hard but doesn't look like creating any scores and without O'Brien, we don't get over the gainline and put the defense on the back foot

I can't see Ferris or McFadden playing in those positions either but they deserve to start. SOB has to play at 6 so why not play Ferris at 4?

jacothelad

Funk It wrote: »

Can't see McFadden getting the 12 shirt, or Ferris the 4 shirt...

For me, Trimble trys hard but doesn't look like creating any scores and without O'Brien, we don't get over the gainline and put the defense on the back foot

As opposed to ....who? The creative players in the backs are 9, 10, 12, 13. - allegedly. Wings are there to finish off scores and defend. If Trimble doesn't get the ball, how the hell can he 'create' anything. Maybe you've someone else in mind. He has been our most consistent player in these 4 games. it's not his fault if the ball dies at 12 or simply gets shoveled sideways. Get real for God's sake.

I actually can't believe anyone faulting Trimble for anything in the last month/6 weeks.

The guy has been the only one of our what, 17 players (TO'L, Reddan, Boss, Murray, Sexton, ROG, Wallace, McFadden, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Earls, Murphy, Trimble himself, Fitzgerald*, Jones, Kearney) who've worn green in the Irish backline over that time period that's actually managed go forward ball on a "more-than-fluke" basis.

We've actually become a "get it to Trimble" team over the last few weeks.

*Fitzgerald actually did manage it, but unfortunately 15 minutes wasn't enough to judge consistency, especially considering the cack of a season he's just been through.

durkadurka

My optimism: no panic- we're always slow starters.
By the time Australia roll around we should get a pretty decent 15 on the field.
We 'only' need to beat Italy to make the quarters. They'll be knackered by then.

We can't be that bad forever.
Most of our returned injured players are holding up.
We have lost Wallace in a position where we have depth.

So many of our problems are from players only returning from injury. Our centres will warm up, bowe will get better. Earls will do ok on the wing if picked. Kearney looked good when he played.

We have two outhalfs.

It suits us to be underdogs. And by jaysus we're underdogs..


Finally my blind optimism that we can pull out a performance. We've seen little signs of it....

Taco Corp

Ya see lads, it's all been an elaborate plan aimed at the Aussies. We've convinced them now that we are really ****, they'll go into that game convinced they will win before a ball is even kicked.

Now we can look forward to the one of the greatest performances by an Irish rugby team on 17 Sept. I say one of the greatest because the performances because after that they will simply be incredible.

I predict that Ireland's path to world cup glory will be top of pool, Wales in the quarter, France in the semi and defeat New Zealand 48-22 in the final.

How's that for optimism?

chris85

bm1993 wrote: »

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 McFadden
11 Trimble
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
1 Healy
2 Flannery
3 Ross
4 Ferris
5 POC
6 SOB
7 Jennings
8 Heaslip

Ferris at 4. Crazy. Playing a brilliant 6 out of position.

Also Healy is ruled out of the game anyways.

jacothelad

Surley wrote: »

Ya see lads, it's all been an elaborate plan aimed at the Aussies. We've convinced them now that we are really ****, they'll go into that game convinced they will win before a ball is even kicked.

Now we can look forward to the one of the greatest performances by an Irish rugby team on 17 Sept. I say one of the greatest because the performances because after that they will simply be incredible.

I predict that Ireland's path to world cup glory will be top of pool, Wales in the quarter, France in the semi and defeat New Zealand 48-22 in the final.

How's that for optimism?

I think that would be a perfect definition of it. Here's hoping. Sadly, the current Irish side reminds me of the stutterings and final demise of Ulster's great side of the 1980s and even more of the rapid decline of 1999 team. They could still pull out the occasional great performance, like putting 47 points on Wasps and beating Leicester Tigers 33 - 0 but couldn't do it consistently. The situations are almost identical in the players age profiles etc.

bm1993

chris85 wrote: »

Ferris at 4. Crazy. Playing a brilliant 6 out of position.

Also Healy is ruled out of the game anyways.

SOB is a better 6. Ferris at 4 will offer us more than DOC.

steve9859

Who is in the first XV and in what positions is an irrelevance in my opinion. The malaise goes deeper and it is in the approach, the leadership and the psychology. But it can be fixed. England had similar issues prior to 2007 world cup, culminating in losing 36-nil to south Africa in the group.

But they turned it around. Beat Australia and nearly beat SA in the final. And the thing that changed was not the personnel - it was the approach and the psychology, leaders like Lawrence dellaglio stepped up to the place and took the team by the scruff of the neck, allegedly sidelining the coaching team. My point is that it can be turned around very fast, but it needs a change in approach.

Ireland will fail if they keep doing the same thing. The question is whether there us the leadership in the team to do what england did

CatFromHue

New Zealand had some good passages of play yesterday against the Aussies so we can learn alot from that. It was 20 to 3 at half time and they brought it back to 20 all. They didn't do anything in this period that we can't do (even if the off load from Carter to Smith for his try was amazing!). They picked and went and kept it tight. We're well able to that. Then there is also the Nz v Oz game a few weeks ago were the Aussies were blown away. That's two very good templates to work too. I still think we're well able to give the Wallaby's a good run for their money, if not more! Their most important player is Genia and in Ferris and SOB we've two guys who will be looking for him all day!

I don't see us losing to Italy, Russia, or the states. We've a great record against all these times and while records don't win games none of these teams are as good as any we've played in the August Internationals. To answer any questions like what about Georgia in the last WC or Italy in the 6 nations. We won both these games!

From looking at yesterdays game we have a problem in mid field. Darcy has been poor offensively for Ireland for a while now. His trade mark bursts up the middle that he does for Leinster have been absent at this level. BOD has been injured and we've no real back up. Earls in fairness to him did make a few half breaks yesterday, himself and Trimble were the only ones looking like getting over the gain line. Unfortunately neither of them has good enough hands to off load. Earls did get caught out badly for Tuilagi's try, it was a pity to see how badly Murphy dealt with it too though. He saw it happening but just gave up the chase. I would be pushing for Wallace to start ahead of Darcy and for a Wallace BOD combo in the centre against the US. All of the criticisms laid at Wallace, most of which were wrong, can equally be laid at Darcy, which would be right. Wallace in the games he played was looking to add a bit of creativity that I think with BOD could come good. In Trimble, Bowe, and Kearney we've good outside backs with a functioning mid field these guys will shine. Similarly to what happened in the Magners League final when Barnes and Mafi played for Munster.

We turned down kicks at goal yesterday and didn't take our chances when they came. I'm not fully sure of the legality but on two occasions we had line outs in the English 22. On both occasions with the jumper still in the air the English drove through the line out stopping us before we could get anything started. Ultimately England were good for their win and certainly when the rain came down it favoured the defending team hugely.

Other things to be optimistic are that our scrum with Ross and Healy is looking good and the line out with POC is also looking good. It was also good to see Ferris on the field yesterday showing us what he is capable of. That game will do him a huge amount of good both fitness and confidence wise!