Kidney is a genius

sting60

Its a plan,we will beat the Aussies.I have total respect in Deco.Cute whorism ya boya.REMBER THIS POST.

EmacB

This is what happens when you come onto boards at the end of a night on the sauce!

tolosenc

Actually, winning the group would probably mean NZ in the semis. If we finish runner up to Oz and hope for Wales to pull it out of the bag, we'd have Wales in he QF and probably England in the SF.

thebaz

and Niall Ronan is MOTM when we crush the All Blacks for the first time in a one sided final

sting60

ders a devil in every pint.

Podge_irl

tolosenc wrote: »

Actually, winning the group would probably mean NZ in the semis. If we finish runner up to Oz and hope for Wales to pull it out of the bag, we'd have Wales in he QF and probably England in the SF.

Winning the group means NZ in the final and France/England in the semi. Coming second means SA in the quarter and NZ in the semi.

Tomtom364

Podge_irl wrote: »

Winning the group means NZ in the final and France/England in the semi. Coming second means SA in the quarter and NZ in the semi.

Being in the 1/4 means having to beat italy in the group...

[Jackass]

I don't doubt we've held back a lot for the world cup, so not pressing the panic button yet! These games were all about match fitness, and I don't think we showed a single back move or set piece play at all, and i'm certain that's on purpose.

joshrogan

Ye man Tomas o Leary man of the tournament aswell as Fitzgerald top try scorer, remember this post!

BarackPyjama

[Jackass] wrote: »

I don't doubt we've held back a lot for the world cup, so not pressing the panic button yet! These games were all about match fitness, and I don't think we showed a single back move or set piece play at all, and i'm certain that's on purpose.

You're certain? Then what about the other major gaffs? i.e. the most match fit scrum half we have isn't even traveling to NZ because Kidney only realised he was rubbish after about 100 hours game time? What about leaving Healy on time after time after he had sustained knocks? The injuries? The inability to pick on form and instead stick with the old faithful? The inability over the last few years to actually develop a squad for the WC?

No, Kidney isn't a genius. He's just headless and lost in the modern game/new rules. I'm open to being proven wrong.

joseywhales

It's so ridiculous we are worse than any lions team ever

KELTICKNIGHTT

we see all the excuses,blame the coach,blame the coach
its coach and players
we have 3 top clubs in euorpe ,munster,leinster and ulster and cant play well together,so its players as well as coach,we have seen this in 6 nations for last 8 years,these test matches,there was no passion,hunger,ireland need too dig deep

jacothelad

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

we see all the excuses,blame the coach,blame the coach
its coach and players
we have 3 top clubs in euorpe ,munster,leinster and ulster and cant play well together,so its players as well as coach,we have seen this in 6 nations for last 8 years,these test matches,there was no passion,hunger,ireland need too dig deep

I think you are both right and wrong here. There was plenty of passion. however there are a number of things that I think are wrong with our set-up.

Central contracts may be effective in keeping our top players in Ireland but they are a double edged sword. They mean the selection of a player , at both Irish and Provincial level, over a better performing one simply because he has a central contract. This has stultified our selections over the years and weighed down the development of young players. Let's face a bit of reality. We select players because of who they are, not what they can do. We did this in the amateur days because it didn't matter that much. We do it now because of contracts. Stupid stuff.

The continued selection up to recently of Hayes and still that of Buckley is the biggest indictment of Kidney's sojourn as our coach. We've all watched Buckley getting his head shoved up his ring time after time and often by poor props like Paul James, Bryan Young etc. In no particular order, these props are better rugby players and tight heads than Buckley. Andress, D. Fitzpatrick, G. Cronin, - even Bryan Young and he is mainly a loose head. None of them are great and they are only the ones from Ulster. Go round the other provinces and some English sides and there are more Irish tight heads who, while not great also, are light years ahead of Man Mountain. We have fallen into the trap of importing our props, thus denying development to our indigenous players. Le Rouk, Botha, Van Der Linde, Van De Merwe, Pucciarello, and a lot of others have all given us something to a greater or lesser degree but they have possibly denied us more than they have given.

The refusal to play Sexton and Reddan / Boss together is baffling, bizarre and frankly beyond stupid. They were clearly outstanding as a unit in Europe yet Kidney selects ROG who is worthy but uninspiring alongside Reddan.

Playing players out of position? Why? Why? Why?
Buckley at loosehead when we have Court, Wilkinson, McAllister etc. Playing Buckley at tight head when we have anyone still breathing.
Playing Earls at 13 when McFadden is standing beside him on the wing. How stupid is that? It has to be up there with the Buckley selection.
Playing Fitz at 15. meh.
Playing Fitz when he was horribly out of form.
The place to regain form is with your club, not Ireland. Not selecting Fitz after giving him a lot of game time and when he was just flickering back into form....Not very bright.

Playing TOL for 2 years when he was - let's call it - out of form. I have great admiration for him as a player. I'd happily have him in any squad as a utility outside back. He isn't a 9 of international quality. He is fast, strong and fearless. Qualities a player needs but you also need to be able to do the basics of your position.

Refusing to use the A.I.s as a means to look at new players in a World Cup season was awful. Seeing Hayes lumber onto the pitch was madness. We want to win all our games but my goodness we need new blood and have done since the 2009 season.

Refusing to use the A games to check out guys like McGrath, McAllister, Nagle, Downey, Gilroy, Conway etc.

There is a truism that people tend to get promoted to one level above their ability. I think this is the case with Kidney. He may in fact be the best Irish coach. He brought too much baggage with him from his provincial days. His abandonment of The Dragons and Leinster speak volumes of his need for the comfort blanket of his friends from Munster. He had success with a great bunch of players. The game changed. Kidney and his coterie of favourites haven't. I think we need a new coaching philosophy to go along with our new players post the RWC. I have to say that I would prefer a head coach with no recent provincial links once Kidney goes. (This would have the merit of ruling out Bradley which would be a good thing imo).

Also, sadly, our best players are mainly over the hill and some of the rest are not good enough.

CatFromHue

jacothelad wrote: »

Refusing to use the A.I.s as a means to look at new players in a World Cup season was awful. Seeing Hayes lumber onto the pitch was madness. We want to win all our games but my goodness we need new blood and have done since the 2009 season.

Refusing to use the A games to check out guys like McGrath, McAllister, Nagle, Downey, Gilroy, Conway etc.

Downey has been involved with 3 Irish provinces and has also been in Churchill Cup squads. We know what he is capable of. I think the level he is at now is his level and fair play to him for working to get to it.

Regarding the A teams.

Against Scotland:
Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht); Johne Murphy (Young Munster/Munster), Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster), Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster); Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster), Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster); Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht), Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Ian Nagle (Cork Constitution/Munster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Willie Faloon (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster) (capt).

Replacements used: Ian Whitten (Ballynahinch/Ulster) for Spence, Jamie Hagan (Corinthians/Connacht) for Buckley (both half-time), Nigel Brady (Dungannon/Ulster) for Varley, Andrew Browne (Galwegians/Connacht) for Nagle (both 57 mins), Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) for McLaughlin (62), Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster) for O'Leary (63), Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) for Humphreys (67).

Against England:
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster); Johne Murphy (Young Munster/Munster), Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster), Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster); Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster), Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster); Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht), Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster), Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht), Willie Faloon (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster) (capt).

Replacements used: Jamie Hagan (Corinthians/Connacht) for McCarthy (53-63 mins, temp), Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) for McCarthy (63), Jamie Hagan (Corinthians/Connacht) for Fitzpatrick (67), Ian Nagle (Cork Constitution/Munster) for Faloon (70). Not used: Nigel Brady (Dungannon/Ulster), Paul Marshall (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht), Fionn Carr (Galwegians/Connacht).

Conway when I have seen him for Leinster has looked slightly uncomfortable, he is also an U20 player. Gilroy is also a U20 player and both their times will come. A games I don't think are the place to try out U20 players. If you look at the England Saxons squad it was pretty handy. Physically I think there would be a problem and would be uncomfortable with U20's playing in this environment.

KELTICKNIGHTT

jacothelad wrote: »

I think you are both right and wrong here. There was plenty of passion. however there are a number of things that I think are wrong with our set-up.

Central contracts may be effective in keeping our top players in Ireland but they are a double edged sword. They mean the selection of a player , at both Irish and Provincial level, over a better performing one simply because he has a central contract. This has stultified our selections over the years and weighed down the development of young players. Let's face a bit of reality. We select players because of who they are, not what they can do. We did this in the amateur days because it didn't matter that much. We do it now because of contracts. Stupid stuff.

The continued selection up to recently of Hayes and still that of Buckley is the biggest indictment of Kidney's sojourn as our coach. We've all watched Buckley getting his head shoved up his ring time after time and often by poor props like Paul James, Bryan Young etc. In no particular order, these props are better rugby players and tight heads than Buckley. Andress, D. Fitzpatrick, G. Cronin, - even Bryan Young and he is mainly a loose head. None of them are great and they are only the ones from Ulster. Go round the other provinces and some English sides and there are more Irish tight heads who, while not great also, are light years ahead of Man Mountain. We have fallen into the trap of importing our props, thus denying development to our indigenous players. Le Rouk, Botha, Van Der Linde, Van De Merwe, Pucciarello, and a lot of others have all given us something to a greater or lesser degree but they have possibly denied us more than they have given.

The refusal to play Sexton and Reddan / Boss together is baffling, bizarre and frankly beyond stupid. They were clearly outstanding as a unit in Europe yet Kidney selects ROG who is worthy but uninspiring alongside Reddan.

Playing players out of position? Why? Why? Why?
Buckley at loosehead when we have Court, Wilkinson, McAllister etc. Playing Buckley at tight head when we have anyone still breathing.
Playing Earls at 13 when McFadden is standing beside him on the wing. How stupid is that? It has to be up there with the Buckley selection.
Playing Fitz at 15. meh.
Playing Fitz when he was horribly out of form.
The place to regain form is with your club, not Ireland. Not selecting Fitz after giving him a lot of game time and when he was just flickering back into form....Not very bright.

Playing TOL for 2 years when he was - let's call it - out of form. I have great admiration for him as a player. I'd happily have him in any squad as a utility outside back. He isn't a 9 of international quality. He is fast, strong and fearless. Qualities a player needs but you also need to be able to do the basics of your position.

Refusing to use the A.I.s as a means to look at new players in a World Cup season was awful. Seeing Hayes lumber onto the pitch was madness. We want to win all our games but my goodness we need new blood and have done since the 2009 season.

Refusing to use the A games to check out guys like McGrath, McAllister, Nagle, Downey, Gilroy, Conway etc.

There is a truism that people tend to get promoted to one level above their ability. I think this is the case with Kidney. He may in fact be the best Irish coach. He brought too much baggage with him from his provincial days. His abandonment of The Dragons and Leinster speak volumes of his need for the comfort blanket of his friends from Munster. He had success with a great bunch of players. The game changed. Kidney and his coterie of favourites haven't. I think we need a new coaching philosophy to go along with our new players post the RWC. I have to say that I would prefer a head coach with no recent provincial links once Kidney goes. (This would have the merit of ruling out Bradley which would be a good thing imo).

Also, sadly, our best players are mainly over the hill and some of the rest are not good enough.

i agree and disagree with you
irish players always play better for there provinces than national team,same with sullivan time,,if there ever too be a coach change ,should be outside ireland,no connection too any provinces,,
yes ireland lost all its test matches,england was specialy bad,
wc has its surprises and hoping irelands has plenty
i think ireland will do alot better than these test matchs
they cant do worse

jacothelad

CatFromHue wrote: »

Downey has been involved with 3 Irish provinces and has also been in Churchill Cup squads. We know what he is capable of. I think the level he is at now is his level and fair play to him for working to get to it.

Regarding the A teams.

Against Scotland:
Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht); Johne Murphy (Young Munster/Munster), Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster), Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster); Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster), Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster); Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht), Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Ian Nagle (Cork Constitution/Munster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Willie Faloon (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster) (capt).

Replacements used: Ian Whitten (Ballynahinch/Ulster) for Spence, Jamie Hagan (Corinthians/Connacht) for Buckley (both half-time), Nigel Brady (Dungannon/Ulster) for Varley, Andrew Browne (Galwegians/Connacht) for Nagle (both 57 mins), Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) for McLaughlin (62), Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster) for O'Leary (63), Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) for Humphreys (67).

Against England:
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster); Johne Murphy (Young Munster/Munster), Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster), Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster); Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster), Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster); Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht), Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster), Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht), Willie Faloon (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster) (capt).

Replacements used: Jamie Hagan (Corinthians/Connacht) for McCarthy (53-63 mins, temp), Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) for McCarthy (63), Jamie Hagan (Corinthians/Connacht) for Fitzpatrick (67), Ian Nagle (Cork Constitution/Munster) for Faloon (70). Not used: Nigel Brady (Dungannon/Ulster), Paul Marshall (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht), Fionn Carr (Galwegians/Connacht).

Conway when I have seen him for Leinster has looked slightly uncomfortable, he is also an U20 player. Gilroy is also a U20 player and both their times will come. A games I don't think are the place to try out U20 players. If you look at the England Saxons squad it was pretty handy. Physically I think there would be a problem and would be uncomfortable with U20's playing in this environment.

I have no argument about most of the above but my point was that we didn't get to see the best of the above get any sort of reward. I.E. getting in the AI match day squads. The ones I've highlighted in green have no place in an 'A' team. MOD doesn't need to be there. Niall O'Connor is in the Buckley category. Looks like a rugby player until the kick off happens. Then ----nothing.

Micky Dolenz

[Jackass] wrote: »

I don't doubt we've held back a lot for the world cup, so not pressing the panic button yet! These games were all about match fitness, and I don't think we showed a single back move or set piece play at all, and i'm certain that's on purpose.

I so hope thats true.

C'mon Ireland.

Trevor Kent

[Jackass] wrote: »

I don't doubt we've held back a lot for the world cup, so not pressing the panic button yet! These games were all about match fitness, and I don't think we showed a single back move or set piece play at all, and i'm certain that's on purpose.

This is what I kept thinking while watching the warm up games. Some(not all) of the players who were guaranted places on the squad have not been their usual best. I can see different performances come WC time (I hope).

And the back play has been so so flat and predictable, we all know, and have seen that Ireland can do so much better than this . Have they suddenly become crap players? I dont think so. Im still looking forward to the WC, in particular the Auz game. I think we will frighten them. (I'm very aware that I could be talking complete crap and this post could be thrown back in my face, but I cant help it C'MON IRELAND)

theKramer

Trevor Kent wrote: »

This is what I kept thinking while watching the warm up games. Some(not all) of the players who were guaranted places on the squad have not been their usual best. I can see different performances come WC time (I hope).

And the back play has been so so flat and predictable, we all know, and have seen that Ireland can do so much better than this . Have they suddenly become crap players? I dont think so. Im still looking forward to the WC, in particular the Auz game. I think we will frighten them. (I'm very aware that I could be talking complete crap and this post could be thrown back in my face, but I cant help it C'MON IRELAND)

I am hoping this too, but the thing that scares me if that is true is that the last time we tried to throw the ball around in a do-or-die competition without having played it before was this years 6-Nations. And we all remember the awful knock-ons and mistakes.

Actually they are still making those silly mistakes with a limited gameplan, so what hope that they will play beautiful running rugby a-la Australia, when they cant even execute a simple game plan due to errors.

And one other thing, if all they have been doing this August is running into straight into opposition without looking for offloads to other players, how are they going to completely change from that style in two weeks time

Twice early on I saw Trimble and Earls try to run through defences when they should have passed the ball to another player. How are these guys going to change how they think so quickly?

How have they been training? Do they train with these "Top Secret" backs moves, or with the pass the ball along the line and run into contact plan?

P.S. Im not having a go at you, Im hoping the same also, but when I think about it objectively, I dont see how....

profitius

[Jackass] wrote: »

I don't doubt we've held back a lot for the world cup, so not pressing the panic button yet! These games were all about match fitness, and I don't think we showed a single back move or set piece play at all, and i'm certain that's on purpose.

I think that too.

The set pieces and defense look like they'll be fine come the world cup. Its the backlines predictability thats doing all the damage. Its clear they're playing their cards close to their chests and they'll show their hand when they play the Wallabies.

GerM

It doesn't matter if the backs are holding back an entire play book. If the set piece is misfiring and the forwards are losing the collisions, they're not going to have a good enough standard of ball to put these plays into practice. For what it's worth, I think they are holding back some moves but set plays are only used a certain number of times. A lot of back play is generated off defences being pulled apart by players taking the ball on and exposing gaps elsewhere. This isn't happening and is why we see the ball just being moved along the line with no gaps ever appearing. If we can't secure good quality, quick ruck ball and we can't provide clean possession off our set pieces, the back line moves are not going to appear.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

The set pieces and defense look like they'll be fine come the world cup. Its the backlines predictability thats doing all the damage. Its clear they're playing their cards close to their chests and they'll show their hand when they play the Wallabies.

Sounds familiar from 4 years ago...


I find the notion that they can simply "turn on the style" ridiculous in the extreme. When Ireland were trying to play ball in the first two games in the 6N they were all over the place. They have shown nothing, absolutely nothing in these 4 games. If they suddenly start trying intricate backline moves I have little doubt that it will all end in disaster again. They couldn't even cope with the pedestrian passing the ball out the backline non-event of a gameplan they were trying to use against England with passes dropped or even going into touch! On top of that they were blown away in the forwards against England with a close to first choice pack.

Mr.Applepie

Podge_irl wrote: »

Sounds familiar from 4 years ago...


I find the notion that they can simply "turn on the style" ridiculous in the extreme. When Ireland were trying to play ball in the first two games in the 6N they were all over the place. They have shown nothing, absolutely nothing in these 4 games. If they suddenly start trying intricate backline moves I have little doubt that it will all end in disaster again. They couldn't even cope with the pedestrian passing the ball out the backline non-event of a gameplan they were trying to use against England with passes dropped or even going into touch! On top of that they were blown away in the forwards against England with a close to first choice pack.

I agree, you can't go from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye. I would understand if they were holding back 1 or 2 special moves for Aus but you would want them playing at 90% of their best or at least having some kind of gameplan. The only way it could make sense is if Ireland completely revolutionised backplay 18 months ago but are holding off on showing the world what that is until the WC.

Just had a terrifying thought - what if Australian back are only playing at 10% of what they are capable of!

profitius

GerM wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the backs are holding back an entire play book. If the set piece is misfiring and the forwards are losing the collisions, they're not going to have a good enough standard of ball to put these plays into practice. For what it's worth, I think they are holding back some moves but set plays are only used a certain number of times. A lot of back play is generated off defences being pulled apart by players taking the ball on and exposing gaps elsewhere. This isn't happening and is why we see the ball just being moved along the line with no gaps ever appearing. If we can't secure good quality, quick ruck ball and we can't provide clean possession off our set pieces, the back line moves are not going to appear.

Ireland played right into Englands hands tactically. They were easy to defend against. England were illegal much of the time and Ireland turned down kicks. It was a slow game that suited the bigger English pack.

Ireland blew England away in the 6 nations by playing to their strengths.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Sounds familiar from 4 years ago...

I find the notion that they can simply "turn on the style" ridiculous in the extreme. When Ireland were trying to play ball in the first two games in the 6N they were all over the place. They have shown nothing, absolutely nothing in these 4 games. If they suddenly start trying intricate backline moves I have little doubt that it will all end in disaster again. They couldn't even cope with the pedestrian passing the ball out the backline non-event of a gameplan they were trying to use against England with passes dropped or even going into touch! On top of that they were blown away in the forwards against England with a close to first choice pack.

It took Ireland a few weeks in the 6 nations to click. Apart from the Welsh match where they decidedto take part in a kicking contest, the team were getting better in every match.

I'm not saying they'll be playing great stuff against Australia but I think they'll have a few moves that should make them harder to defend against and that should open more holes for them.

Kidney also hasn't picked the strongest team for any game. With BOD and SOB coming in it'll make the team stronger.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

Kidney also hasn't picked the strongest team for any game.

And he may well not be able to in the World Cup either. BOD and SOB both had knocks, that could easily happen again.

profitius wrote: »

It took Ireland a few weeks in the 6 nations to click. Apart from the Welsh match where they decidedto take part in a kicking contest, the team were getting better in every match.

They only have one match to get better in before facing Australia though.

Trevor Kent

I take the point that even if the team are holding back on their backline plays, that they are still making small mistakes and the set piece has not been perfect.

But, from my experience, when your in a match and your being told not to play 100%, your concentration lapses, leading to small mistakes.

We did not win the power contest on Saturday, but who's to say that all the forwards were giving it everything either.....

This may be the the mother of all straw clutching, I know. But Im trying to get it into my head that this is all a master plan and Auz will be the first team to play the Real Ireland......................I can only be wrong

molloyjh

Trevor Kent wrote: »

I take the point that even if the team are holding back on their backline plays, that they are still making small mistakes and the set piece has not been perfect.

But, from my experience, when your in a match and your being told not to play 100%, your concentration lapses, leading to small mistakes.

We did not win the power contest on Saturday, but who's to say that all the forwards were giving it everything either.....

This may be the the mother of all straw clutching, I know. But Im trying to get it into my head that this is all a master plan and Auz will be the first team to play the Real Ireland......................I can only be wrong

Assuming this to be correct do you think the guys will then suddenly be able to turn it on against one of the main contenders for the title having never before done so at a competitive level? I see where you're coming from but I don't see it being true. And even if it were it's not something they could likely pull off.

Trojan

Kidney IS a genius.

He managed to get the IRFU to make exactly the same mistake* as they made 4 years ago and will walk away with a huge bonus when they fire him after the RWC.

* I'm not so sure it's a mistake, the IRFU have shown themselves to be somewhat incompetent but not this incompetent - perhaps other possibilities exist.

peterako

Is this 'opposites' day?

Trojan

peterako wrote: »

Is this 'opposites' day?

I think it's 'opposites decade' at the IRFU

dtpc191991

Just heard an interview with Kidney, where he stated that they actually didn't use their attacking moves in the warm up games so that we could hide them. Mr Kidney better not be talking through his hat( and for those of you feel like it there is a much better word than hat which you can slot in there)

CatFromHue

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Just heard an interview with Kidney, where he stated that they actually didn't use their attacking moves in the warm up games so that we could hide them. Mr Kidney better not be talking through his hat( and for those of you feel like it there is a much better word than hat which you can slot in there)

That's quite interesting. Do you have a link?

smurphy29

There won't be a link, because it's complete bs. Does it sound like the sort of thing Deccie would come out with? Mr Give Nothing Away suddenly announces that Ireland have an array of shiny new backs moves but didn't bother to play them in august? Pull the other one.

apoeiguq3094y

Trojan wrote: »

Kidney IS a genius.

He managed to get the IRFU to make exactly the same mistake* as they made 4 years ago and will walk away with a huge bonus when they fire him after the RWC.

* I'm not so sure it's a mistake, the IRFU have shown themselves to be somewhat incompetent but not this incompetent - perhaps other possibilities exist.

Bit overly cynical considering how successful Irish rugby is. Fraction of the people play rugby as play soccer, yet we are far more competitive as a rugby team.

smurphy29 wrote: »

There won't be a link, because it's complete bs. Does it sound like the sort of thing Deccie would come out with? Mr Give Nothing Away suddenly announces that Ireland have an array of shiny new backs moves but didn't bother to play them in august? Pull the other one.

Not for me to say, but here's a link to today's interview. http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/index/index/id/9100

Fight_Night

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Bit overly cynical considering how successful Irish rugby is. Fraction of the people play rugby as play soccer, yet we are far more competitive as a rugby team.

Factoring in the amount of countries that play soccer competitively, our soccer team actually overachieves. If every country played rugby we would be in the same position as the Irish soccer team.

dtpc191991

smurphy29 wrote: »

There won't be a link, because it's complete bs. Does it sound like the sort of thing Deccie would come out with? Mr Give Nothing Away suddenly announces that Ireland have an array of shiny new backs moves but didn't bother to play them in august? Pull the other one.

It's not bull****, here's the link:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/index/index/id/9088

Kidney is asked about Ireland's inability to go forward especially in the last 10 mins of the England game, and he states, "There are variations we have that we need to bring into it, we can't show everything".

I will admit the statement is a bit vague and difficult truly interpret. But I feel that it must have to do with attacking manoeuvres we have not tried, due to the question asked this is the only way the above answer can be interpreted. Have a listen for yourselves and tell me what you think.

molloyjh

dtpc191991 wrote: »

It's not bull****, here's the link:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/index/index/id/9088

Kidney is asked about Ireland's inability to go forward especially in the last 10 mins of the England game, and he states, "There are variations we have that we need to bring into it, we can't show everything".

I will admit the statement is a bit vague and difficult truly interpret. But I feel that it must have to do with attacking manoeuvres we have not tried, due to the question asked this is the only way the above answer can be interpreted. Have a listen for yourselves and tell me what you think.

Yeah it is a bit vague alright. But in a way it sounds like there's a couple of things they didn't try rather than an entire play-book to be unleashed. Either way I'm not sure how we're just going to pull it all together without having tried any of it before-hand. I'll be impressed if they do and if they become a team with serious penetration overnight I'll take my hat off to Kidney and Gaffney and gladly, very gladly, admit I was wrong.

dtpc191991

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah it is a bit vague alright. But in a way it sounds like there's a couple of things they didn't try rather than an entire play-book to be unleashed. Either way I'm not sure how we're just going to pull it all together without having tried any of it before-hand. I'll be impressed if they do and if they become a team with serious penetration overnight I'll take my hat off to Kidney and Gaffney and gladly, very gladly, admit I was wrong.

So do I, despite what I've heard in those interviews I wouldn't call DK a genius by any stretch of the imagination, it doesn't dispel my worries about the teams ability to penetrate defences, particularly with Gaffney in charge he isn't really suited to the modern game.

smurphy29

dtpc191991 wrote: »

It's not bull****, here's the link:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/index/index/id/9088

Kidney is asked about Ireland's inability to go forward especially in the last 10 mins of the England game, and he states, "There are variations we have that we need to bring into it, we can't show everything".

I will admit the statement is a bit vague and difficult truly interpret. But I feel that it must have to do with attacking manoeuvres we have not tried, due to the question asked this is the only way the above answer can be interpreted. Have a listen for yourselves and tell me what you think.

Apologies dtpc, I was needlessly aggressive there. Indeed it is a bit vague (what's new!) but Deccie did intimate that he hadn't revealed his full hand.

I'm still dubious though - there are only a handful of times you get to show off first-phase moves, and most of Ireland's tries are scored from multi-phase rugby (due to our lack of pace), so I'm not sure of how much value it will be. Hitting the rucks harder would be just as important.

Sport101

What's he going to do? Select Reddan with Sexton from the start for a match?! Its too out there, I'm not buying it...bring back O'Leary.

Leslie91

smurphy29 wrote: »

Apologies dtpc, I was needlessly aggressive there. Indeed it is a bit vague (what's new!) but Deccie did intimate that he hadn't revealed his full hand.

I'm still dubious though - there are only a handful of times you get to show off first-phase moves, and most of Ireland's tries are scored from multi-phase rugby (due to our lack of pace), so I'm not sure of how much value it will be. Hitting the rucks harder would be just as important.

We're really clutching at straws if we're to believe he was hiding loads. Yeah I'm sure there is some stuff being worked on that we might not see until the Oz match but it doesn't add up for me. What was the point in asking (how many) people to pay to come watch them 4 matches if yee are just going thru the motions and not showing us 'wot u got'. Glad I only went to one of em!.

Podge_irl

Gaffney has not exactly shown himself to be a tactical mastermind or backline magician over the last few years. Even if he does, apparently, have something kept under wraps I would be reasonably confident of it being useless.

Yahew

I have a VERY STRONG feeling that Ireland will get out of the group stages into the QF and lose gallantly.

REMEMBER THIS POST!

smurphy29

Podge_irl wrote: »

Gaffney has not exactly shown himself to be a tactical mastermind or backline magician over the last few years. Even if he does, apparently, have something kept under wraps I would be reasonably confident of it being useless.

I quite agree Podge. People have to remember that wing-to-wing passing and players flat on the gain-line is Gaffney's style. He doesn't buy in to players running from really deep, as he figures it might look great but you need to threaten the gain line. That's his philosophy, he said as much in a NT radio interview when he was at Leinster a couple of years ago.

So, whatever he has up his sleeve, it's going to be in keeping with his rugby philosophy i.e. badly out of date.

dtpc191991

smurphy29 wrote: »

Apologies dtpc, I was needlessly aggressive there. Indeed it is a bit vague (what's new!) but Deccie did intimate that he hadn't revealed his full hand.

I'm still dubious though - there are only a handful of times you get to show off first-phase moves, and most of Ireland's tries are scored from multi-phase rugby (due to our lack of pace), so I'm not sure of how much value it will be. Hitting the rucks harder would be just as important.

No problem, I can't blame you for being sceptical of Kidney saying something like that considering our run of form. Your right we can't expect much.

profitius

I agree that Gaffney is out of date and isn't a mastermind. Leinster improved dramatically once Schmidt came in so that highlights how bad or at least how average Gaffney is.

I do think though that Ireland have something up their sleeves because they way they played those 4 games, they showed absolutely nothing in the backline.

Looking at the scrums, defense and lineout, I think they'll be solid once the top players come back. Its just the attack that has been so far behind international standard.

I might be overly optimistic but Kidney has a track record of getting the best out of players when it matters. Munster always played terrible rugby in the Celtic league but were a different beast when it came to the HEC. The whole season is being geared towards that Australia match and I've a feeling Ireland will rise to the occasion.