When are we going to wake up?

Tim Robbins

It's not often you'd feel emotional reading the Irish times, but you have to take a look at this letter today

Sir, – As I write this letter I am hoping that sleep can provide me with some escape from the anxiety and pain that the economic situation is wreaking on me and my family.
Until recently I have been able to meet my mortgage repayments and provide for my young children. At this juncture, seeing as the part-time work on which I depended has entirely ceased, I have found myself and my loved ones having to cope with a new torment – hunger.
Today I have had nothing to give my children only bread and cereal. My dole payment is completely servicing my mortgage and my savings have run dry on essentials. I dread what each day will bring.
The wolf that I have been keeping from the door has finally moved in. – Yours, etc,
MP Mac DOMHNAILL,
Cathair na Sailigh,
Traigh Lí, Co Chiarraí.

What have we come to? When are we ever going to wake up and realise we need to start protecting people and stop all the scams in this country.

Ryan Tubirdy on 600K a year and someone having to humiliate themselves writing to a national newspaper saying they can't feed their family!

Poor fella. Every decent Irish person is behind you.

Gumbo

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's not often you'd feel emotional reading the Irish times, but you have to take a look at this letter today


What have we come to? When are we ever going to wake up and realise we need to start protecting people and stop all the scams in this country.

Ryan Tubirdy on 600K a year and someone having to humiliate themselves writing to a national newspaper saying they can't feed their family!

Poor fella. Every decent Irish person is behind you.

If i was that fella, i'd feed my family and pay the mortgage with whats left.
Why hasnt he approached the bank to discuss yet, arent they calling on you to conatct them if your in trouble to arrange alternatives? ive gotten about 6 letters from Bank Of Scotland this year telling me to do so.

Although i agree, poor fella
The day i cant feed my 4 month old because of my mortgage payment will be the day i stop paying my mortgage im afraid.

Tim Robbins

kceire wrote: »

If i was that fella, i'd feed my family and pay the mortgage with whats left.
Why hasnt he approached the bank to discuss yet, arent they calling on you to conatct them if your in trouble to arrange alternatives? ive gotten about 6 letters from Bank Of Scotland this year telling me to do so.

Although i agree, poor fella
The day i cant feed my 4 month old because of my mortgage payment will be the day i stop paying my mortgage im afraid.

I think he's probably so stressed he can't even think straight. The bank have convinced him, they come first. The state (i.e. us) haven't convinced him, his family does.

Frank Black

What an idiot - paying your mortgage but letting your family go hungry?

Idiocy does not earn much sympathy from me.

Tim Robbins

black francis wrote: »

What an idiot - paying your mortgage but letting your family go hungry?

Idiocy does not earn much sympathy from me.

Tell us how you deal with your aggressive bank so? When they are (I assume) threathening to take your court and make your family's life even worse than it already is.

Tim Robbins

Em ok, I may sound a little heartless here, but wtf? He is willing to send in a letter to the irish times admitting to neglecting his family? With his full name and address so everyone in the area who knows the poor kids knows what they're going through? Those poor children!! That is really a mean thing to do.
And he's using social welfare to pay his mortgage? Social welfare seriously should not be for paying mortgages ;s
And why doesn't he just feed them first and let the mortgage into arrears or negotiate something with the bank. Good lord.

Yes, I am certainly emotional after reading that.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think he's probably so stressed he can't even think straight. The bank have convinced him, they come first. The state (i.e. us) haven't convinced him, his family does.

Oh please.

ei.sdraob

The are no words, really now! are some bricks in Tralee worth more than your children health?

Is renting really such a dirty concept??

argghhh the madness

RichardAnd

That guy should tell the bank to f**k off. Realistically, they can't just turn up and demand the keys back and whilst I don't support people not honouring their debts, his children should come first.

Posts like this remind me why I wish I never have kids though

20Cent

Some kind of debt forgiveness or reduction is necessary or there will be a lot more stories like this.

westies4ever

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Tell us how you deal with your aggressive bank so? When they are (I assume) threathening to take your court and make your family's life even worse than it already is.

Thats not how they operate - thats reserved for the 'can pay but wont pay' brigade or people who are ignoring the issue. Other than the sub prime lenders, all institutions are willing to negotiate. MABS are also there to assist. People tend to get a bit silly and blinkered about these things. Jusst contact your creditors and sort something out. And no, I dont work for a bank.

ei.sdraob

20Cent wrote: »

Some kind of debt forgiveness or reduction is necessary or there will be a lot more stories like this.

Will debt forgivness help him find a job or get back on feet?

Unemployment and lack of bankruptcy laws (and sheer idiocy if this letter is true) are the real issues here.

Urquell

Go Hungry rather than fail the bank? Its the kind of mentality that prevailed during the Famine.

Very odd, he should realise we are all looking after Bank, it will be fine. Look after your family.

Zulu

black francis wrote: »

What an idiot - paying your mortgage but letting your family go hungry?

Idiocy does not earn much sympathy from me.

Acting an uber-hard hero in an internet board does not earn much respect from anyone.

It's great that you have the where-with-all to know how to act in such a situation, but it's pretty clear this poor neighbour of ours doesn't. The fact that you feel it's acceptable to insult them & are unable to garnish even a shred of sympathy for him & his family says more about you than anything.

Clearly you have little concept of the pressure large financial organisations bring to bear on people.

iMax

It's bred into us that we have to keep up our payments, to own property is the Irish dream (800 years & all that).

Heard this on the radio this Morning & my heart went out to him. No doubt someone will put him straight soon.

They can't evict everyone, but we're rapidly approaching tipping point where the banks are going to come looking for another cash injection because of all the people who can't afford their payments. They should have got the first one on the basis they slashed mortgage interest repayable by up to 50%, freeing up funds that people would have put back into the economy.

I know of several people who are on the edge. Another increase in interest & it's game over for them. The payment will stay the same but they'll start to go into arrears.

Sleepy

Apply for rental allowance.
Get a rental property.
Sell house.
Come to arrangement with Bank on outstanding balance of mortgage based on welfare income.

Assuming the man has a wife and two kids his JSB/JSA would be €372.40. Subtract €26 a week from that for Personal Contribution to rent and he'd be left with €346.40 a week to feed and clothe his family. Say €100 a week in bank payments and, while they wouldn't be going on holidays this year, they wouldn't be hungry either on €246.40 a week.

To be fair, it's easy for me to think straight when I'm not in his position but tbh, I'm not far from it the last week of every month either. It's "eat whatever's left in the cupboard/freezer" week then.

westies4ever

Sleepy wrote: »

Apply for rental allowance.
Get a rental property.
Sell house.
Come to arrangement with Bank on outstanding balance of mortgage based on welfare income.

Assuming the man has a wife and two kids his JSB/JSA would be €372.40. Subtract €26 a week from that for Personal Contribution to rent and he'd be left with €346.40 a week to feed and clothe his family. Say €100 a week in bank payments and, while they wouldn't be going on holidays this year, they wouldn't be hungry either on €246.40 a week.

Absolutely - a little common sense and less of the dramatics is what is needed here.

the groutch

I sense alot of exaggeration by the letter in the first post.
sounds like someone who was living the high life until 2008, and is now throwing the toys out of the pram because he can't have quail eggs and caviar for breakfast anymore

WhatNowForUs?

westies4ever wrote: »

Thats not how they operate - thats reserved for the 'can pay but wont pay' brigade or people who are ignoring the issue. Other than the sub prime lenders, all institutions are willing to negotiate. MABS are also there to assist. People tend to get a bit silly and blinkered about these things. Jusst contact your creditors and sort something out. And no, I dont work for a bank.

Don't go straight to the bank. Get MABS or if your lucky enought to have a solicitor use them to negociate with the banks. You need to be very careful what you say to the bank. Anything you say will be used against you when or where at their convience.

Dr Galen

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The are no words, really now! are some bricks in Tralee worth more than your children health?

Is renting really such a dirty concept??

argghhh the madness

The short answer to your question here is yes. For some reason people are still obsessed with property ownership. Renting is still considered a "bad" thing among many.

Certainly we need some reform or a re-think of the rental market, and how, as a nation, we rent a family home. I wouldn't be in agreement with the Government forcing this through though, because as per form, they'd likely stuff it up. The concept of a long term rental needs to become much more common here, and then at least people will have an option.

Frank Black

Zulu wrote: »

Acting an uber-hard hero in an internet board does not earn much respect from anyone..

Not trying to be an 'uber hard internt hero' - wtf is that anyway?

Zulu wrote: »

It's great that you have the where-with-all to know how to act in such a situation,.

Yes, it is nice all right.

Zulu wrote: »

but it's pretty clear this poor neighbour of ours doesn't. .

I know, thus my calling him an idiot.

Zulu wrote: »

The fact that you feel it's acceptable to insult them & are unable to garnish even a shred of sympathy for him & his family says more about you than anything.,.

Thanks

Zulu wrote: »

Clearly you have little concept of the pressure large financial organisations bring to bear on people.

Yes, seeing your children go hungry is much more preferable than a few phone call/letters from the bank.

leonidas83

black francis wrote: »

What an idiot - paying your mortgage but letting your family go hungry?

Idiocy does not earn much sympathy from me.

Idiotic post if you ask me, who are you to judge what its like being in a position like that, i doubt you ever have been

grumpymunster

Logic is not always applied when you are under severe pressure, as this man seems to be. It is also great to see the caring society is alive and well.

The banks have already been given our money to cover bad debts which include mortgage arrears, its about time they were brought to heel.

Frank Black

leonidas83 wrote: »

Idiotic post if you ask me, who are you to judge what its like being in a position like that, i doubt you ever have been

I have a mortgage and I have children - so I think I'm in a great position to be able to judge which would come first in my line of priorities.

swampgas

grumpymunster wrote: »

Logic is not always applied when you are under severe pressure, as this man seems to be. It is also great to see the caring society is alive and well.

He might be under pressure, but is he living under a rock as well?

This specific issue has been on the radio, television, and in newspapers for the last few years. The message is clear - talk to your bank, and talk to MABS.

Writing to the paper rather than reading the advice that has often been in it seems - I hate to use the word, but it seems apt here - idiotic.

leonidas83

black francis wrote: »

I have a mortgage and I have children - so I think I'm in a great position to be able to judge which would come first in my line of priorities.

Yes but i seriously doubt you are unemployed and behind in your mortgage repayments though. Not everyone can be as sure of themselves as you are especially when under severe stress already. The man is probably not thinking straight. A bit of empathy in times like these goes along way, throwing insults around doesnt help anyone

meditraitor

is it odd that the only thing I find disturbing about this letter is the fact that someone can actually service a mortgage on dole money........


this country really is balloxed if social welfare is been used to service private debt...

Frank Black

leonidas83 wrote: »

Yes but i seriously doubt you are unemployed and behind in your mortgage repayments though. Not everyone can be as sure of themselves as you are especially when under severe stress already. The man is probably not thinking straight. A bit of empathy in times like these goes along way, throwing insults around doesnt help anyone

Empathy for him? - nope

For his kids - yep .

What he actually needs is for someone to give him a good verbal kick up the arse and remind him of where his priorities lie.

Writing whingy letters into the IT isn't going to feed his kids.

Zulu

leonidas83 wrote: »

A bit of empathy in times like these goes along way

Whole heartedly agree.

throwing insults around doesnt help anyone

It probably helps one person feel superior at least. :rolleyes:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Frank Black

Zulu wrote: »

It probably helps one person feel superior at least. :rolleyes:

Oh the bitter sweet ironing.

dearg lady

Sleepy wrote: »

Apply for rental allowance.
Get a rental property.
Sell house.
Come to arrangement with Bank on outstanding balance of mortgage based on welfare income.

Assuming the man has a wife and two kids his JSB/JSA would be €372.40. Subtract €26 a week from that for Personal Contribution to rent and he'd be left with €346.40 a week to feed and clothe his family. Say €100 a week in bank payments and, while they wouldn't be going on holidays this year, they wouldn't be hungry either on €246.40 a week.

To be fair, it's easy for me to think straight when I'm not in his position but tbh, I'm not far from it the last week of every month either. It's "eat whatever's left in the cupboard/freezer" week then.

I would agree completely with this, but it may not be an option. Firstly, he wouldn't be able to apply for rent allowance while he owns a house, secondly, he's need to be renting for 6 months before being able to apply. thirdly, if there is negative equity on the property the bank would likely not allow a sale.

It's extremely frustrating that the bigger picture isn't looked at, and instead, a person is often 'stuck' in this position

WhatNowForUs?

swampgas wrote: »

He might be under pressure, but is he living under a rock as well?

This specific issue has been on the radio, television, and in newspapers for the last few years. The message is clear - talk to your bank, and talk to MABS.

Writing to the paper rather than reading the advice that has often been in it seems - I hate to use the word, but it seems apt here - idiotic.

Do not go to the bank go to MABS instead.

jester77

Instead of writing to the papers, this guy should be writing down a list of priorities and feeding his family should be on top of it. The dole is meant to cover your basics (and it does that very generously in Ireland), not for paying debt. He should be looking after himself and his family and then make some token payment towards his mortgage. There is not a lot the banks can do, it's not like they can draw blood from a stone. And if they take you to court I'm sure most judges, unless they are heartless, would side with the family once they can show they are contributing as much as is possible towards the mortgage.

20Cent

He should stop paying the bank altogether. He'll have a year or two maybe three before the sheriff comes to kick him out. Try and find a job in the meantime. If he can't afford to service the mortgage then he probably can't rent either.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Tim Robbins

The general response here is the pretty rational tell the bank to get lost.
You're missing the point entirely. The lad is so stressed, rational thought is something difficult to do.

For all we know his parents could have gone guarentor on his mortgage and he's terrified the bank will go after them because they're sick and also now broke. We just don't know.

It's a bit cruel that people are unsympathetic. Judging him as if it's all so simple. Advice him yes - but judging him in such a sinister way makes me regret I even posted this.

Tim Robbins

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I am in favour of cuts myself. But cut the fat cats. Here's some salaries from NAMA, also in the IT doay:

Mr Corrigan’s basic salary is €490,000 per annum; Mr McDonagh is paid €330,000, while Mr Murphy’s salary is €330,000.

Over a million quid for 3 people.

A million quid is enough to provide 1,000 for 1,000 people.

Zulu

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The general response here is the pretty rational tell the bank to get lost.
You're missing the point entirely. The lad is so stressed, rational thought is something difficult to do.

For all we know his parents could have gone guarentor on his mortgage and he's terrified the bank will go after them because they're sick and also now broke. We just don't know.

It's a bit cruel that people are unsympathetic. Judging him as if it's all so simple. Advice him yes - but judging him in such a sinister way makes me regret I even posted this.

That's exactly the point. Thank you.

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that being sympathetic & being in favor of cuts are not mutually exclusive positions.

tfitzgerald

westies4ever wrote: »

Thats not how they operate - thats reserved for the 'can pay but wont pay' brigade or people who are ignoring the issue. Other than the sub prime lenders, all institutions are willing to negotiate. MABS are also there to assist. People tend to get a bit silly and blinkered about these things. Jusst contact your creditors and sort something out. And no, I dont work for a bank.

In the real world thats exactly how they operate go behind by a month and you get very threatening phone calls .they make you feel like dirt

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

sarumite

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I am in favour of cuts myself. But cut the fat cats. Here's some salaries from NAMA, also in the IT doay:



Over a million quid for 3 people.

A million quid is enough to provide 1,000 for 1,000 people.

While I agree in principle, in practice it won't solve the problem. It may cut millions, perhaps even at a stretch 10's of millions....the problem is that Ireland needs to cut 1000's of millions. I think the manner in which celebrity economists throw out numbers like 6 billion as if its nothing. You are, quite rightfully, complaining that 3 people earn a million between them considering the current economic situation, whereas some people feel the tax payer should fork out 6,000 million so they as a group can retain ownership of their property.

iMax

jester77 wrote: »

There is not a lot the banks can do, it's not like they can draw blood from a stone.

Every time I hear someone say that, I'm reminded of Douglas Adams, who reportadly said it to someone & they replied: "What makes you think you're a stone Mr. Adams?"

Frank Black

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's a bit cruel that people are unsympathetic. Judging him as if it's all so simple. Advice him yes - but judging him in such a sinister way makes me regret I even posted this.

I think spending your social welfare money servicing a mortgage while letting your children go hungry is far more cruel.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

tfitzgerald

meditraitor wrote: »

is it odd that the only thing I find disturbing about this letter is the fact that someone can actually service a mortgage on dole money........


this country really is balloxed if social welfare is been used to service private debt...

If you read the post he can't service the mortage and live on social welfare

meditraitor

tfitzgerald wrote: »

If you read the post he can't service the mortage and live on social welfare

aww, now my heart is bleeding for him, imagine that.......what a crap country we live in when a man can not feed himself after servicing a private debt with public money...

westies4ever

tfitzgerald wrote: »

In the real world thats exactly how they operate go behind by a month and you get very threatening phone calls .they make you feel like dirt

nonsense - first port of call is a letter. If you dont respond to the letter then you get a phone call - the first one is generally - 'you're behind on your paymetns what going on,. Then you get a list of options. They get tough when you dont co-operate or ignore. By 'threats' I assume you mean the bank advising people what will realistically happen if an agreement isnt made. I've had problems paying my own mortgage and havent had any problem dealing with the bank - if you're rational, polite, and realistic you shouldnt either.


The dramatics from a lot of people on this subject (and not just in this thread) are tiresome.

Frank Black

"I have had nothing to give my children only bread and cereal. My dole payment is completely servicing my mortgage"


I've read this a few times now - I'm thinking he should be reported to the ISPCC.

tfitzgerald

black francis wrote: »

"I have had nothing to give my children only bread and cereal. My dole payment is completely servicing my mortgage"


I've read this a few times now - I'm thinking he should be reported to the ISPCC.

Jesus let's kick a man when he's down and westies4everi I was late with my payments and when the factory I was Working in closed and it was not a nice experience they wanted their money first before anyone else I found the way they dealt with me very aggressive

Frank Black

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Jesus let's kick a man when he's down and westies4everi I was late with my payments and when the factory I was Working in closed and it was not a nice experience they wanted their money first before anyone else I found the way they dealt with me very aggressive

Did you stop feeding your kids?

Tim Robbins

black francis wrote: »

Did you stop feeding your kids?

Are you a citizen of a country where a bank can demand money when someone can't even feed their kids?

I am. And I ashamed.