Stopped for not having a Full Licensed driver with me :(

dillo2k10

I feel like crying. I went driving on my own and was stopped at a check point on my way home. (I know I shouldnt have been). The guard told me that I would be getting a summons. I just said "Okay thanks" and went home.

I am terrified of going to court. And I was told that I would get a €1000 fine Im just about to start University and I wont be able to pay that.

What is going to happen and how long for a summons to arrive.

LovelyFreak

God you poor thing i'd be absolutely sh***ing myself. That's why I've been driving with my other half until i get my full licence, i'm too worried i'd be stopped. where about's was the checkpoint?

dillo2k10

LovelyFreak wrote: »

God you poor thing i'd be absolutely sh***ing myself. That's why I've been driving with my other half until i get my full licence, i'm too worried i'd be stopped. where about's was the checkpoint?

It was on a quiet residential street just up from my house. I dont know what Im going to do, it would actually be impossible for me to pay it

Lupo_solitario

I doudt if things are too bad , obviously your car is insured , taxed , if the guards summoned every one they stop on a provisional licence driving without a full licence holder , the court system would be over-flowing , most times it's a stern talking and the guard's discretion . I would not worry too much

stevieg_irl

hi,
this happened to me when i had a provisional license, checkpoint with no driver or L-plates, i hoped the summons wouldnt come but it did.
100euro fine for each offence.... you'll be grand

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

LovelyFreak

Yeah the others are right, if it's a first time offence they'll give you a mini (compared to a grand) fine, just to give you a scare! just put in for your test and pass, problem solved!

squeek squeek

I'm also waiting for a summons to arrive for same

Anyone I've told has found it hard to believe they even pursue this in court but I suppose the law is the law. Surely a simple on the spot fine would be better though? The absolute dread of the court date has been killing me for the last few months and I'm afraid that my name might appear in the papers.

Worse still (in a way) I passed my driving test two weeks later. TWO WEEKS!

How long did your summons take to come, out of interest?

dillo2k10

LovelyFreak wrote: »

Yeah the others are right, if it's a first time offence they'll give you a mini (compared to a grand) fine, just to give you a scare! just put in for your test and pass, problem solved!

I will, I am going to book my test in a few min.

challengemaster

LovelyFreak wrote: »

God you poor thing i'd be absolutely sh***ing myself. That's why I've been driving with my other half until i get my full licence, i'm too worried i'd be stopped. where about's was the checkpoint?

Poor thing? Nobody to blame but yourself - there's reasons for it, and everyone has to abide by them. To be honest, it's actually good to see the Gardaí cracking down somewhat on it.

msg11

squeek squeek wrote: »

I'm also waiting for a summons to arrive for same

Anyone I've told has found it hard to believe they even pursue this in court but I suppose the law is the law. Surely a simple on the spot fine would be better though? The absolute dread of the court date has been killing me for the last few months and I'm afraid that my name might appear in the papers.

Worse still (in a way) I passed my driving test two weeks later. TWO WEEKS!

How long did your summons take to come, out of interest?

I know people that were summonsed for driving without a full licenced driver. They got there test and passed, the judge just threw it out of court dunno if they would do it these days.

I would defo mention it in court that you hold a full licence now.

dillo2k10

challengemaster wrote: »

Poor thing? Nobody to blame but yourself - there's reasons for it, and everyone has to abide by them. To be honest, it's actually good to see the Gardaí cracking down somewhat on it.

I actually agree. I know that I shouldn't have been driving and I was. Its my own fault however, I still would rather not have to go to court.

Mister Jingles

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I actually agree. I know that I shouldn't have been driving and I was. Its my own fault however, I still would rather not have to go to court.

Who was it that stopped you a Traffic corps or local guard ?

dillo2k10

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Who was it that stopped you a Traffic corps or local guard ?

It was a local guard. Just decided to set up a check point as they were walking down the street.

Cill Dara Abu

challengemaster wrote: »

Poor thing? Nobody to blame but yourself - there's reasons for it, and everyone has to abide by them. To be honest, it's actually good to see the Gardaí cracking down somewhat on it.

Would you ever get down off that high horse!

There's far worse things going on than someone driving on a learner permit.

challengemaster

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Would you ever get down off that high horse!

There's far worse things going on than someone driving on a learner permit.

If I managed to have a qualified driver with me at all times when I had my learner permit, then I fail to see why others can't.

No high horse needed tbh.

msg11

challengemaster wrote: »

Poor thing? Nobody to blame but yourself - there's reasons for it, and everyone has to abide by them. To be honest, it's actually good to see the Gardaí cracking down somewhat on it.

Come on, we all done it. That odd time we slipped out in the car by ourself on a Provo Licence.

I done it alot actully. It's how I learnt to drive. I used to go out at 2/3/4am in the morning when no body was around and get used to my road position, changing lanes, coming to a stop at lights, using a roundabout. How to take turns at junctions I use alot. All this so I don't make an arse of myself during the daytime or cause an accident.

The more comfortable I got the further I would travel the next night. Think I got one lesson off my Dad, watched a DVD again and again, then I would go out as above middle of the night and try it by myself.

Passed my test and I am still alive to this day without an accident. And as habit I still go out at night and see if anything has changed along my routes I use that I wouldn't see during the day.

Having a full licensed driver in the car is about as useless as having a full licensed driver on the back of a motorbike. They might make some people relax while driving, but come a tricky situation at 60/80kph is that person going to just jump across into the drivers seat? I don't think so. My personal option and I couldn't really care what you think about it, it worked for me and I have full licence and still practise my driving skills.

heate

Look I think the OP has accepted that an offense has been committed and yes it is extremely good that the Gardai are cracking down on this. But the OP has learnt their bloody lesson and that was the aim.
The eventuality if you explain your situation when it comes to will lead to a tiny fine and a slap on the wrist.

dillo2k10

I accept that it is my fault and that its illegal. I kinda think that I deserve a big fine for it, but I still don't want one as I can't pay it.

heate

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I accept that it is my fault and that its illegal. I kinda think that I deserve a big fine for it, but I still don't want one as I can't pay it.

Look you seem genuine and honest - when it comes to your court date don't panic and remain polite and apologetic. Judges by the nature of a pecking order are there to scare the daylights out of you - but a fine in this case will not touch €1000!

So relax!

allthedoyles

with everything else in order , he could have shown some leniency and let you off with a warning .

softmee

challengemaster wrote: »

then I fail to see why others can't.

.

Maybe is not as easy as you think, with no family or close friends around? I don't have anybody who could drive with me unfortunately and I had to spend lots of money for driving lessons.. I drive on my own only to local shop - sorry, I have to.

elbee

OP, a friend of mine got a fine for a traffic offence while he was a student (much worse than the one you're facing, if that makes you feel any better ) and he was able to get a bank loan for it.

Obviously it's impossible to guess if a bank will lend to you because they seem to be a bit arbitrary these days, but a small student loan may be an option to look into.

I know repayments can be tough as a student but they shouldn't be too high on the amount of a fine you're facing.

Hope it works out anyway.

msg11

msg11 wrote: »

Come on, we all done it. That odd time we slipped out in the car by ourself on a Provo Licence.

No we did not "all done it", and having a full licenced driver in the car is not useless. Stop spouting such unhelpful rubbish!

Anyway I think everything else has been said to OP already so I won't have a go

Permabear

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softmee

There is enormous pressure from everyone around me to make me drive on my own. Seriously.
I was driving with 3 instructors - 2 of them were encouraging me to drive on my own and saying things like "you won't pass if you won't practise", "they don't stop L drivers, only 2 people in whole Ireland had to pay 1000eu" and things like that..
Also people I talk to "you don't drive yet" - me "no, I don't have license yet", - "oh, everyone I know was driving with provisional, friend of mine is driving 2 years like that, she was stopped twice and nothing happened, she even had accident.. bla bla" - I started feeling like a coward! :mad:

softmee

softmee wrote: »

There is enormous pressure from everyone around me to make me drive on my own. Seriously.
I was driving with 3 instructors - 2 of them were encouraging me to drive on my own and saying things like "you won't pass if you won't practise", "they don't stop L drivers, only 2 people in whole Ireland had to pay 1000eu" and things like that..
Also people I talk to "you don't drive yet" - me "no, I don't have license yet", - "oh, everyone I know was driving with provisional, friend of mine is driving 2 years like that, she was stopped twice and nothing happened, she even had accident.. bla bla" - I started feeling like a coward! :mad:

Don't mind them. My own friend had had her licence < 2 years when I was learning and was giving me hassle about being my accompanying driver until I asked was she going to pay the 1000 euro fine if I got caught. Anyone gives you trouble, ask if they'll fork out. They should give over then

squeek squeek

anyone know how long a summons takes to come?

johnmcdnl

Have to say I feel for you OP I think your the first person I've ever heard of getting stopped and given a summons for driving without a licensed driver...

most of the time you hear about this the guard just waves you on as long as everything else is in order and maybe a bit of a warning not to do it again...

bad luck OP..

squeek squeek

does the
"you have to have 12 driving lessons with a qualified instructor before you can have a full licence"

remind anyone of Dolores Umbridge's * saying,
"if you study the theory enough, then you will be able to cast a spell?"

The only way to learn anything is to practice! I have my pink licence now but it really annoys me that some of my friends will have to go through this crap. I don't know about everyone but in my case, the only accompanied drivers that I could have with me are impatient and angry and would have shouted at me if I had done anything wrong. Basically, they would have made me never want to drive again, even though it is the only way I could have been independent, living in the back arse of rural Ireland. I mean, my father would have been the only driver I could have had with me. He never had to pass a driving test because in his day, drivers licences were given out! What use would he have been to me? He drives as far as town and back. (Town being little more than a village, the man will driver no further.)
The reason I had to go get a car is because he refused to drive me anywhere. Lets not get into it but he is the only licensed driver I could have had with me at the time. I know my case is extreme but surely I can't be the only one in such a situation?

Driving is a skill, not something that can be learned by heart. Yes, you would need lessons, as you would learning any skill, like the guitar for example. You still need to practice on your own as you would learning the guitar.

Also, unless the car is dual controlled, there is very little a person in the passengers seat could do if you are on collision course.

Yes, they could tell you to slow down, but starting out driving, are you really going to speed? You test the waters a bit. Start out in a carpark. Then on a quiet road. Then on a busier road. Then venture into a town (all the while getting lessons). When the road is quiet, say in the middle of the night practice on roundabouts, reverse around the corner of your house/estate and all the rest. How can you have someone with you in the car at all times?

And if you fail the test first time, and are still relatively competent to drive around the locality, to your job and to college and to your friends house, why should you be brought to court for this?

My cousin is a good driver (by my standards at least). She doesn't speed, talk on her phone when driving/, drink drive etc. She isn't a bad driver. Not Jenson Button mind but she failed her test 3 or 4 times for no other reason than nerves. Anyone who has taken their test will tell you that it is the most nerve wracking experience ever.I thought and I went straight from my leaving cert into it!I know road confidence is important but some of the driving testers are downright ignorant. I can blame half of my faults on my first driving test on nerves due to the rudeness and hostility of the tester. I attribute passing my second driving test half on my own competence and the other half on how pleasant my tester was. He made me feel comfortable and I just thought to myself, "I'm going to pass", and I did.

Apologies for the rant, but thats what boards is for. I know I'm going to get the some people saying the law is the law and all that and I know. The law is the law but that doesn't mean that it is always 100% fair.

And to OP, I don't see how we could be prosecuted for being independent young people, just starting college, who are trying our best to work and educate ourselves. Yes, we "broke the law" but we're hardly criminals.

phew. it just makes me so mad. Yes I was aware of the penalties but I believed they were worth the risk at the time, so I could be independent and live my feckin life.

*Dolores Umbridge is a character in Harry Potter... basically doesnt allow students to practise their spells but thinks if they study they theory, they will be able to cast the spell if they need. I'm a nerd sorry :P

Alanstrainor

squeek squeek wrote: »

does the
"you have to have 12 driving lessons with a qualified instructor before you can have a full licence"

remind anyone of Dolores Umbridge's * saying,
"if you study the theory enough, then you will be able to cast a spell?"

The only way to learn anything is to practice! ...

That's all fair and well when you're learning a new sport, or instrument, but a car is a piece of machinery easily capable of killing people if used incorrectly.

I'm sorry, but that point in this circumstance is just wrong. Ireland has had a very relaxed attitude to learning to drive compared to other EU countries.

People learning to drive in Germany can only drive with a qualified instructor, and have to jump through far more hoops than we do here.

And to finish off, driving is a privilege, not a right.

squeek squeek

I had this part in my last post about realising that learning to drive a car can kill much easier than say, a guitar but I deleted it, thinking, "no one would bring me up on that." Anyway;

I know driving is a privelage, but one I pay for (quiet dearly too).
A car driven by a fully licensed driver can surely kill as quickly as that of a learner. I know that learners are statistically more likely to crash but I think every time I get behind the wheel, today could be the day I kill someone or get killed in this car. I know everyone isn't quiet so paranoid but have no doubt that I take driving seriously. (As I said before though, I thought driving unaccompanied was worth the risk. It was a long time before carried passengers. I hadn't passed the test, but i felt confident enough to take my friends lives into my hands. To them, we were driving to the cinema, I was great cos I was driving and we didn't have to ask for a lift from parents but I was all the while thinking, I have to get my friends back home safe! I don't even know what film we seen...)

They're bringing people to court for driving on their own. I'd take a fine on the spot and points, no problem, but court? For this?

Germany also have a better public transport. (And are in fairness a better run country all round, but thinking their rules will work here shows that you don't really understand the mentality of most Irish people. I mean, the attitude most Irish have towards laws and the Gardai makes you wonder why they're there at all :rolleyes: )

Do you think anyone (in paticular, students) would be paying 60 quid a week to run a car (This is my calculation of tax diesel petrol roughly not including oil and repairs) if they could avoid it? I'm basically working to run the car but hey it kept me sane during the summer.

To finish, I don't agree with this law, many people too, but even still, bringing people to court when a simple fine and points would suffice is a waste of money, time and worry for everyone.

If you think that maybe the fear and worry would stop me doing it again... doing what exactly? Passing my driving test? I probably would have regardless.... in my case 2 weeks later. Do you really think my overall driving improved in two weeks? (I had been driving roughly 15 months).
Nah.

challengemaster

If you think learning to drive is expensive here, again, take a good look at germany in particular.

squeek squeek

squeek squeek wrote: »

does the
"you have to have 12 driving lessons with a qualified instructor before you can have a full licence"

remind anyone of Dolores Umbridge's * saying,
"if you study the theory enough, then you will be able to cast a spell?"

The only way to learn anything is to practice!

What in god's name do you think people do with driving instructors, sit around and chat over tea? They take them out practising. Where the instructor can take over if anything goes wrong and give a lot of guidance.

As I said before though, I thought driving unaccompanied was worth the risk. It was a long time before carried passengers. I hadn't passed the test, but i felt confident enough to take my friends lives into my hands.

Your attitude is completely mindboggling. At least OP seems to have more sense

I know that learners are statistically more likely to crash but...

At least you acknowledge that much

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

BostonB

squeek squeek wrote: »

does the
"you have to have 12 driving lessons with a qualified instructor before you can have a full licence"

remind anyone of Dolores Umbridge's * saying,
"if you study the theory enough, then you will be able to cast a spell?" ...

No because you are allowed to drive. You can get practical experience. In HP you couldn't. Its completely not the same thing.

ebbsy

Well done to that guard. Not.

He was taking the easy option instead of preventing robberies and vandalism.

munchkin_utd

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

and thats when the young person passed the test and has a full licence!

And no matter what age you are, theres a 2 year probabtion period after passing the test where the alcohol limit is zero (infringement of that means licence gone and expensive psychological tests plus a 500euro road safety course) and a couple of minor infringements lands you also into an expensive road safety course just to remind you not to be breaking the law. And the probation period is lengthed by 2 years just for good measure!
All together it really focuses your appreciation of the road traffic laws and your responsibility not to break them!

Its a great scheme as you are forced to have cop on for the first 2 years of your newly gained freedom rather than learn bad habits that you will never unlearn.

For young learner drivers the probation period is a minimum of 2 years but at least till they are 21. Plus the 2 extra years on top if they act the b0llix - meaning possibly 7 years of treading on egg shells and 0.0 alcohol limit !!

BostonB

In fairness to the OP, they are not defending it. I just hope they learn from the experience, and I'm not throwing any stones from my glass house.

squeek squeek

Ok, you have proven the value of having experienced drivers learners with statistics I can't really argue with.
I actually think a 2 year probation period would be a good idea and I think no one could disagree that it should be in the school curriculum. Surely a thousand times more useful than LCVP. :rolleyes:

Really, I shouldn't have waited 10 months to redo my test but my first test was such a bad experience, I swore I'd NEVER do a driving test again. Moral of the story, I should have bit the bullet and redone it sooner. So L drivers don't wait to reapply and don't be put off by a bad experience! Now that I'm really thinking about it, I really really really should have reapplied sooner and I could have avoided the whole thing...

I know you think I have a lousy attitude toward the whole thing but I just feel I was unlucky to have been caught. I think I'd feel better if the rule was better enforced because I know of 2 or 3 people who have been let go by Gardai for driving unaccompanied so obviously some of them don't even take the road traffic laws seriously. They were just told to "get themselves sorted"

spurious

Slightly OT, for those that know the German system, would a 48 year old learner also have to have an accompanying driver over 30, like 16/17 year olds do?

I had terrible trouble finding someone to accompany me - far more trouble than I would have had 30 years ago, living at home. I eventually drove on my own for about three months, after spending a fortune on 'lessons' where I was spending money just to have someone in the car with me.

BostonB

You need to bride your passenger with something at the end. Like a journey to a favorite cafe or book shop or something.

BostonB

squeek squeek wrote: »

...
I know you think I have a lousy attitude toward the whole thing but I just feel I was unlucky to have been caught. I think I'd feel better if the rule was better enforced because I know of 2 or 3 people who have been let go by Gardai for driving unaccompanied so obviously some of them don't even take the road traffic laws seriously. They were just told to "get themselves sorted"

They catch a few to deter the majority. Its impossible to catch them all.

That they should catch a few more, I can't argue with. Its always a pain when your made an example of. But thats the risk you take playing the odds of not being caught.

pcardin

challengemaster wrote: »

Poor thing? Nobody to blame but yourself - there's reasons for it, and everyone has to abide by them. To be honest, it's actually good to see the Gardaí cracking down somewhat on it.

Exactly. This came in force since 1st July 2008 and its about time to take it seriously and stop crying about it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

BostonB

That was meant to be bridle... then again I may have posted in the wrong forum...:eek:

matt70iu

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's just what I was thinking... Compared to even 2 or 3 years ago, the gardai are enforcing this law. I live in Meath and have seen them outside and near secondary schools catching students driving to school with no fully licensed driver with them.

It's only going to get more difficult for those who make that choice, given the fact that our neghbours across the water have a zero tolerance approach and have done since I was on this earth:)

grumpymenever

Did the Garda make you get out and walk home or let you drive off. If he let you drive off, he must have considered you where qualified enough to drive. I would mention this in court, if you feel the Judge is in a good mood.
Worked for me 15 years ago.

MascotDec85

matt70iu wrote: »

That's just what I was thinking... Compared to even 2 or 3 years ago, the gardai are enforcing this law. I live in Meath and have seen them outside and near secondary schools catching students driving to school with no fully licensed driver with them.

It's only going to get more difficult for those who make that choice, given the fact that our neghbours across the water have a zero tolerance approach and have done since I was on this earth:)

I've never seen them do this in Meath. They'd have a field day if they sat outside the test centre for a few hours

shaneyboy1

next time you see the guard poop in your hand and rub it in around his gums

Compton

Thats the stupidest comment I've ever seen.



OP: Unlucky to be stopped tbh but if you're driving by yourself you should have a full license. It's called a learner permit for a reason.