Family mystery

Waitsian

Hello all.

I have been researching my family tree and history of late and have been quite successful, especially with my North American roots. However my mother's paternal side is proving to be quite the challenge. I have a family mystery that I cannot solve, and it comes from some family folklore that has been passed through the generations. I was hoping maybe someone on here could offer some advice.

My mother's father always spoke of a French connection. He was born and reared in Tullyvin/Drumnagran, outside Cootehill. His mother is said to have been fathered by a Frenchman, who, so the story goes, worked for the Coote family at Bellamont House. His surname is thought to be a variation of Denoir. My grandfather's mother is listed variously (on her children's birth registrations, civil and church) as: Mary Denoir, Denipher, Denivor, Devine, and Denvier. On some she is also named as Brady, because her mother's second husband was a Brady. The Frenchman, Mary's biological father, was said to have died, allowing her mother to re-marry. The story goes that the Frenchman was employed by the Cootes at Bellamont House in some capacity, possibly as a tutor to children. Mary's mother may also have worked there, and is where they are said to have met.

I have photocopies of all Mary's children's birth registrations, both church and civil, and also the marriage certificate for Mary Brady & James Smith.

I should also make you aware that I have been in touch with a descendant of the Bellamont House Cootes (and current owner) and he has no family documents that might shed light on the story, unfortunately.

Also: this may be a red herring, but Mary Denoir's mother was said to be Scottish, named McDonald (her maiden name).

Any ideas on what my next move might be?

pinkypinky

What's the time period on this?

If there's nothing on birth/parish records, and you've checked into the estate records, I'm not sure what else you can do here.

Waitsian

pinkypinky wrote: »

What's the time period on this?

If there's nothing on birth/parish records, and you've checked into the estate records, I'm not sure what else you can do here.

My grandfather was born in Drumnagran in 1882. His father and mother were married in Newry in 1869. Her age on the marriage certificate is given as over 21, so she was born pre-1848 anyway.

I've checked birth/parish records alright, in Cavan, and drawn a blank. But estate records? As in those for Bellamont House? Interesting. No I haven't tbh. Where might I find those? Might there be employment records of some kind?

zagmund

I'm digging up stuff in the Cavan area (or planning to "real soon now"), and I understand that the Archives service of Cavan County Council are very good, so you could give them a shout.

On their website somewhere they list out the various collections of documents that they hold.

z

pinkypinky

mod9maple wrote: »

I've checked birth/parish records alright, in Cavan, and drawn a blank. But estate records? As in those for Bellamont House? Interesting. No I haven't tbh. Where might I find those? Might there be employment records of some kind?

Well, I presumed when you said you were in touch with a Bellamont House descendant that you'd seen their estate records. Of course they may not exist still but you can check the Cavan county library (as Zagmund said) and the National Library (online catalogue will tell you what they have relating to it). Estate records can really vary from vague lists of tenants to comprehensive records of everyone who was involved in the estate.

zagmund

Here's some links for the Archives - http://www.cavancoco.ie/cavanweb/publish/domain/cavancoco/Default.aspx?StructureID_str=310

http://www.cavancoco.ie/cavanweb/publish/domain/cavancoco/Default.aspx?StructureID_str=316

http://www.cavancoco.ie/cavanweb/publish/domain/cavancoco/Default.aspx?StructureID_str=315

z

Waitsian

Thanks guys I appreciate the help, very much so.

Pinky: Sorry, I should have explained better. I e-mailed the Coote descendant to see if his family retained any estate records from the mid 19th Century, but as the house had been out of family hands for over a hundred years before he bought it and helped restore it, he said there was nothing left of his family's time in it. I was hoping for old pictures or diaries or employment records.

I'll check out the Cavan archives and the National library.

Waitsian

Just thought I'd ask on the off chance - if there's any genealogy sleuths would like to see if they can unravel this mystery, really get their teeth into it, send me a PM for more details. Thanks.

CeannRua

Just to add to what others have said, different branches of the Coote family owned land in different parts of the country. The website www.landedestates.ie contains entries that explain who owned what. Otherwise you might spend a lot of time looking at the wrong estate papers. There is also Coote material in PRONI. There is a searchable catalogue on their website. The Sources database on the National Library site might be useful: sources.nli.ie. If he was an employee, salary or wages books might be a good place to start. Sometimes, employees were divided into indoor and outdoor and they may be accounted for in different records. If he was a tutor and was live-in, household accounts might be worth a look. I don't know how much land the Cootes owned or what resources they had, but some estates rented houses to employees so there may be a lease or he could be listed in a rental.