Gooch V Mikey Sheehy

Mr. Incognito

I've always been intrigued by this.

If you played off Kerry 2000-2011 against the cream of Kerry 1975-1986 who would run out winners.

You have arguably the second greatest team in History against the undisputed greatest

It's all academic of course but what is more tangible is who was a better player- Gooch or Sheehy.

Gooch is now only 24 points off the all time record and it's a shoe in that he will break it and go on to set a target that it will be hard for anyone to reach.

Sheehy took 45s and frees for Kerry. Gooch is on Peno's and shares free taking responsibilities.

The Modern players have more games but in Sheehy's time their was a much less even playing field with some awful hammerings being handed out.

Every generation has it's own great player but these two are battling for one and two for the right corner forward berth on the greatest team ever.

I've only seen Sheehy from tapes- has anyone seen both in the Flesh?

Pat Spillane was adament that Gooch is the greatest player ever- Is he right?

EDIT: SHeehy Agrees: http://www.kerryman.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gooch-simply-the-best-ive-ever-seen-2856700.html

davegrohl48

Sheehy was not as good as Cooper. Cooper has taken the relatively straight forward skill of the bounce solo to a new level using to to get around players after taking posession towards them. He almost always gets past the first defender. He is the most lethal shooter of goals we have seen. He has a miniscule tally of wides across his entire career. He rarely if ever missed a gimme free. Something Mike Sheehy did now n then. Kerry ran in some big scorelines back in the 70's and 80's up to and including semi finals and finals. Even with Sheehy being on the modern strength and conditioning programs he just didn't have the shooting accuracy or evasiveness or directness of Cooper. Hard to say anything but Cooper. He has scored goals no one else has some close to scoring. Example the time he delayed his shot against Mayo and tipped the ball left of the goalie.
When has Cooper ever missed a one on one with the keeper?
Look at his goal for Dr Crokes against Kenmare. Players around him and he takes a step back and lobs the keeper from 25/30 yards.
Plus add to that his ability in the air, his willingness to tackle and his passing where he rarely if ever misplaces a pass and it is out in front and right into the hands of his team mate. Unbelievable.

seligehgit

The Gooch in my book is possibly the greatest footballer of all time,it's a pleasure to have seen him play in my lifetime.I was much younger when Mikey Sheehy was in his prime,recollection waning re his undoubted brilliance.I have already argued in the Mayo v Kerry post match discussion that this current crop of Kerry footballers is the greatest ever,even superior to Micko's 2 great teams,the 4 and subsequent 3 in row teams.The team is littered with legends,the o Se lads from an Ghaeltacht,Declan o Sullivan,Galvin,Donaghy and the greatest of all THE GOOCH,end of.:D

Mr. Incognito

I'd agree with you but I never saw Sheehy play so I don't know if he was a selfish or unselfish player or how he played but he did have some spectacular goals in fairness- the lob over Paddy Cullen in the 78 Final for instance was a stroke of genius

homerjay2005

Gooch is just the most complete footballer ever. his fielding is also incredible, 2 feet, really pacey and can dance around the place like swan lake, distribution like scholes. just simple an awesome player, a decent and he has what, 7 all stars then?

and another note, brian sheehan is kerrys penalty taker, the last 3 gooch has taken, he missed

david moran took it last year in the 1/4 final v down.

Ash.J.Williams

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'd agree with you but I never saw Sheehy play so I don't know if he was a selfish or unselfish player or how he played but he did have some spectacular goals in fairness- the lob over Paddy Cullen in the 78 Final for instance was a stroke of genius

so is this!!

dcr22B

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The lob over Paddy Cullen in the 78 Final for instance was a stroke of genius

To this day, it was never a free

who the fug

dcr22B wrote: »

To this day, it was never a free

Stop arguing and cover the line

corny

Can everyone clarify whether or not they've actually seen both players play. Gets my goat when people just naturally favour modern contemporaries. (eg in the soccer when you have young lads telling you Messi is the greatest player ever.:eek:)

plasmaguy

Yet another ridiculous thread trying to compare Gooch with someone.

Gooch is unique, an all round footballer, skillful, classy, cunning and sometimes playing on the edge if you know what I mean. He's very quick, agile, and so on, and has turned countless games.

Sheehy, Maurice Fitzgerald and so on, might have turned a few games each in their time, but that's about it.

Gooch has littlerly won dozens of games for Kerry with his individual skill, on days when other Kerry players were under performing such as against Mayo.

This Kerry team would be average enough without Gooch.

davegrohl48

Seen Mike Sheehy only on All Ireland gold on TG4 but that was a pretty extensive list of matches including all the finals he played in, few munster matches and a few semi finals.

aidan24326

corny wrote: »

Can everyone clarify whether or not they've actually seen both players play. Gets my goat when people just naturally favour modern contemporaries. (eg in the soccer when you have young lads telling you Messi is the greatest player ever.:eek:)

I never saw Mikey Sheehy play in the flesh but am old enough to remember watching him in the 80s. He was a class forward, as good as anything that's around today (with the possible exception of Cooper).

plasmaguy wrote:

This Kerry team would be average enough without Gooch.

No they wouldn't, they'd still be one of the top teams around. Gooch hasn't always played as well as he did last Sunday, and other players like Declan O'Sullivan, Paul Galvin, Donaghy and Darren O'Sullivan are all potential match-winners.


It's gas how everyone is now lauding Gooch as the greatest ever after the Mayo game. I didn't see any threads on this topic before last Sunday.

He hasn't always been the most consistent, but I'd agree that when he's on song he's the best around bar none. Whether he's the best ever I don't know, that's a tough one. In terms of pure, natural, effortless ability, he is arguably the best that I've seen anyway in about 28 years of watching football. I don't think any other player that I've seen ever made it look so easy.

J Cheever Loophole

I have seen both players in the flesh and in my opinion Cooper would be the better player. Indeed, despite Sheehy's greatness, there are those who would argue Egan and Spillane were better forwards.

I just feel in open play, Cooper looks quicker and more incisive - maybe that is to do with the way the game has evolved over this last generation? I also think that Cooper would have been stronger on his weaker foot than Sheehy. Cooper would also have (I think) a better success percentage from frees, but of course he has the option of taking them from the hands; an option MS did not have.

I think Cooper is a great footballer - the best forward of the last twenty years, but I also think some of the praise is reaching hyperbole - I mean, the greatest footballer of all time?!?

I have seen Cooper many times in the flesh, and I would have no hesitation in putting Jacko and Spillane above him - I would also argue Matt Connor was at least his equal.

davegrohl48

I suppose the definition of greatest is subjective but it would have to be
(a) mastery of the full range of skills
(b) unnerring accuracy with left and right foot.
(c) Consistency over a long period
(d) Performances when it counted and when it was going against your team
(e) ability to manufacture and finish goals when few others could attempt same
Matt Connor would come closest for (a) - (d) I would agree. But I still think he would fall short of Coopers ability to manufacture goals from nothing. Look at how far from goals he was when he turned to take on his man against Mayo. Look at all the goals he has scored where goalie and defenders have him off balance. He has scored goals half falling over (Cork/Mayo pretty sure he did this).
Jacko was a great midfielder but not a wonderfully skillful player ala Maurice Fitz, Canavan.

premierstone

davegrohl48 wrote: »

I suppose the definition of greatest is subjective but it would have to be
(a) mastery of the full range of skills
(b) unnerring accuracy with left and right foot.
(c) Consistency over a long period
(d) Performances when it counted and when it was going against your team
(e) ability to manufacture and finish goals when few others could attempt same
Matt Connor would come closest for (a) - (d) I would agree. But I still think he would fall short of Coopers ability to manufacture goals from nothing. Look at how far from goals he was when he turned to take on his man against Mayo. Look at all the goals he has scored where goalie and defenders have him off balance. He has scored goals half falling over (Cork/Mayo pretty sure he did this).
Jacko was a great midfielder but not a wonderfully skillful player ala Maurice Fitz, Canavan.

So no midfielder or defender could ever be considered to be the best footballer of all time by your criteria?

davegrohl48

Dermot Earley Sr. played midfield regular and was able to come close to satisfying the goals criteria you highlighted from the list. He scored many fine goals with his left and right foot. But Cooper scores extra special goals where others would just take a point or pass the ball off.
Jacko got some screamers as well but he didn't have much of a left foot. The greatest should be good with both feet.

plasmaguy

He's certainly the greatest of this generation. Most people on here have little or no experience of previous generations.

Someone like Sean Purcell probably ranks up there, as well as Matt Connor, and so on. Jimmy Keaveny wasn't too bad either and there was other great forwards in the past.

I suppose the best way to answer the question who is/was better is, if you were picking either player (at their peak) for your team, who would you pick? I think I'd pick Gooch.

aidan24326

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I think Cooper is a great footballer - the best forward of the last twenty years, but I also think some of the praise is reaching hyperbole - I mean, the greatest footballer of all time?!?

I have seen Cooper many times in the flesh, and I would have no hesitation in putting Jacko and Spillane above him - I would also argue Matt Connor was at least his equal.

Very difficult to compare Cooper with Jack O'Shea as they're completely different types of player.

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Jacko got some screamers as well but he didn't have much of a left foot. The greatest should be good with both feet.

Now that you mention it, I don't recall Jacko ever kicking the ball with his left foot. I'm sure he did the odd time, but certainly not often. Great footballer all the same.

plasmaguy wrote: »

Someone like Sean Purcell probably ranks up there, as well as Matt Connor, and so on. Jimmy Keaveny wasn't too bad either and there was other great forwards in the past.

People who saw Sean Purcell in the flesh still maintain he's the best all-round footballer they ever saw. My dad reckons Kerry's Mick O'Connell was as good as they come. Everybody will have their opinion, but it's hard to compare players of completely differing styles or completely different positions, not to mention eras. In terms of pure natural skill Cooper is certainly up there with the best, but there have been many others. He's completely two-footed, equally comfortable on his right when he needs to use it.

J Cheever Loophole

aidan24326 wrote: »

Very difficult to compare Cooper with Jack O'Shea as they're completely different types of player.

I accept that - it is even more difficult when you take into account that they played in different eras. However should we simply close all discussion, when it comes to debate about the 'greatest ever' in any sport? I would like to think not - there is surely value to be had in such discussions, even if they are likely to end in stalemate!

By the way, to clarify, the greatest footballer of all time for me was Pat Spillane - for my Dad it was Mick O'Connell!!

Seroxat

I think the Gooch would have tighter arse and be more open to new experiences like tea bagging etc

Good loser

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I accept that - it is even more difficult when you take into account that they played in different eras. However should we simply close all discussion, when it comes to debate about the 'greatest ever' in any sport? I would like to think not - there is surely value to be had in such discussions, even if they are likely to end in stalemate!

By the way, to clarify, the greatest footballer of all time for me was Pat Spillane - for my Dad it was Mick O'Connell!!

Wouldn't agree. I go back a long way.

O'Connell was slow;high fielding was his main skill.

Spillane was fast, industrious,direct, accurate enough and a very hard worker but lacked Cooper's close quarter skills.

Cooper has a great ability to grab and secure a ball when it's in his zone.
He also rarely spills a ball (Brosnan!) or disposes of it without a good outcome. Extremely athletic to date with first grade dummying skills.
Hands/ball/feet coordinate seemlessly.

The best I've ever seen.

Second best for me was Offaly's Matt Connor.