Query: "....RTE have referred to the Taoiseach as the 'prime minister'....."

UglyBolloxFace · 24-08-2011 9:41am #1

I was reading the (now locked) thread about Northern Ireland and the UK, and a user (Naomi00) stated:

The amount of times RTE have referred to the Taoiseach as the 'prime minister' and called the Dáil the 'parliment' etc is embarrassing

I find this really hard to believe, and asked for some links to see whether this had occurred or not. But the thread was locked.

So my question is, does anyone recall RTE doing this, and if so when, and any links?

Buceph · 24-08-2011 9:43am

I have never heard them refer to An Taoiseach as the prime minister.

I have never heard them refer to "The Dail" as "The Parliament." I have however heard them refer to the Dail as a parliamentary process and the like, which isn't surprising, as otherwise they wouldn't be talking English as opposed to using Irish proper nouns.

FatherLen · 24-08-2011 9:44am

dunno i rarely watch rte but i have never heard it.

Dionysus · 24-08-2011 9:45am

Highly unlikely, ever, with the sole exception of referring to "the two prime ministers" when talking about the views/decisions of both at a British-Irish meeting. 'The two taoisigh' would sound odd in that context.

Emiko · 24-08-2011 9:46am

FatherLen wrote: »

dunno i rarely watch rte but i have never heard it.

It's the Irish national TV and radio broadcaster.

chin_grin · 24-08-2011 9:46am

English news channels do this a lot. Well the last few times I've heard the position being referred to as such. <sips tea>

FatherLen · 24-08-2011 9:47am

Emiko wrote: »

It's the Irish national TV and radio broadcaster.

"heard it" as in never heard that being said on rte.
did you honestly think i didnt know what rte is?

Emiko · 24-08-2011 9:48am

FatherLen wrote: »

"heard it" as in never heard that being said on rte.
did you honestly think i didnt know what rte is?

UglyBolloxFace · 24-08-2011 9:49am

Emiko wrote: »

It's the Irish national TV and radio broadcaster.

:rolleyes: You know what he meant.

conorhal · 24-08-2011 9:52am

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I was reading the (now locked) thread about Northern Ireland and the UK, and a user (Naomi00) stated:

I find this really hard to believe, and asked for some links to see whether this had occurred or not. But the thread was locked.

So my question is, does anyone recall RTE doing this, and if so when, and any links?

They are taking their lead from their new political masters in Fine Gael, whose TD's that insist on refering to the Dail as parliment all the time, it's part of their west brit war on anything uniquely Irish.

I Heart Internet · 24-08-2011 9:58am

I've never, ever heard "prime minister" used instead of Taoiseach by RTE except in certain circumstances where they might be comparing the role with other prime ministers in other countries or they are talking with a non-Irish person who they suspect will be confused by the term.

I don't think it's an issue tbh.

mickydoomsux · 24-08-2011 10:04am

Maybe RTE just want to report things properly without having useless bog-talk littering their news items.

Perhaps they want the rest of the world to be able to fully understand it.

zac8 · 24-08-2011 10:05am

meh, it would only be embarrassing if it happened on the nuacht

prinz · 24-08-2011 10:08am

Don't remember them ever using it in isolation no. As above, sometimes they might refer to the 'two prime ministers' or something like that, yes, and on current affairs programmes with foreign guests.

As for the Dáil they do sometimes refer to parliament buildings, parliamentary process etc. No issue.

UglyBolloxFace · 24-08-2011 10:22am

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I've never, ever heard "prime minister" used instead of Taoiseach by RTE except in certain circumstances where they might be comparing the role with other prime ministers in other countries or they are talking with a non-Irish person who they suspect will be confused by the term.

I don't think it's an issue tbh.

I never said it was an issue. Was just looking to see if anyone recalled hearing it.

Mr. Incognito · 24-08-2011 10:30am

Most of the RTE Website is copy and paste from other news outlets

In fact most online media is tbh

Could easily happen as a result

Opelfruit · 24-08-2011 10:30am

conorhal wrote: »

They are taking their lead from their new political masters in Fine Gael, whose TD's that insist on refering to the Dail as parliment all the time, it's part of their west brit war on anything uniquely Irish.

One thing I have noticed about GAA playing, keen Irish historian and fluent Gaelgoir, Enda Kenny, is his aversion to anything uniquely Irish. :rolleyes:

Richard · 27-08-2011 7:30am

conorhal wrote: »

They are taking their lead from their new political masters in Fine Gael, whose TD's that insist on refering to the Dail as parliment all the time, it's part of their west brit war on anything uniquely Irish.

But the Dail is a parliament. So is the British House of Commons. The word "parliament" is a description of both of them, but the name of neither.

Green Back · 27-08-2011 7:53am

'Prime minister', 'parliament' and for that matter 'police/policing' are all generic terms. I dont see anything wrong with their use. When they are referring to specific individaul offices then of course they should use the correct names. It's got nothing to do with 'west-Brit' nonesense that some posters are quick to shout about, these type of people are very insecure.

Kev_ps3 · 27-08-2011 8:10am

Not surprising from that west brit organization

goose2005 · 27-08-2011 9:59am

Richard wrote: »

But the Dail is a parliament. So is the British House of Commons. The word "parliament" is a description of both of them, but the name of neither.

no, they are the lower house of parliament. The Oireachtas is our parliament (Dail + Seanad).

super_furry · 27-08-2011 10:02am

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Not surprising from that west brit organization

Except it didn't happen, did it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2011 10:09am

super_furry wrote: »

Except it didn't happen, did it?

Never, ever, ever let the facts get in the way of an oppertunity to use the phrase "west birt".

terradactyl84 · 27-08-2011 10:13am

well are ya surprised? most of the people working there are not the sharpest. But don't forget: you pay e160 every year to them plus other taxes! suckers!

super_furry · 27-08-2011 10:15am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Never, ever, ever let the facts get in the way of an oppertunity to use the phrase "west birt".

It's a shame he got rid of his Manchester United sig, would have given the whole piece much more credibility.

senorwipesalot · 27-08-2011 10:42am

Im going to contact my local M.P. about this.Its just not on.

Mike 1972 · 27-08-2011 10:58am

Is "prime minister" basically not a pretty accurate description of what a Taoiseach is ?

Im sure lots of countries have fancy titles for their heads of government in their local languages but one rarely hears them used in English language news bulletins.

Never understood why Ireland insists on calling its prime minister a "Taoiseach" (Even when speaking Irish/Gaelic whats wrong with "Priomh Aire" ?) its police "Gardai", etc etc. Comes across as being insistent on being different to other countries purely for for the sake of it

Nulty · 27-08-2011 11:07am

Never heard it but at the Irish Open (Golf) the MC at the presentation of the trophy referred to Enda Kenny as

....the 'An Taoiseach'

LordSutch · 27-08-2011 1:29pm

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I was reading the (now locked) thread about Northern Ireland and the UK, and a user (Naomi00) stated: . . .

Northern Ireland and the UK :cool:

Regarding Enda as Prime Minister, well he is our Prime Minister in the English language, and depending on the context, then I see nothing at all wrong with describing the Taoiseach of the day as the Irish Prime Minister, because he is !!!

Mike 1972 · 27-08-2011 1:39pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Northern Ireland and the UK

RTE come out with this one all the time -referring to the UK as "The North and the UK" :rolleyes:

Notes to editors:
"Britain": = That slightly bigger island to the East consisting of England/Wales/Scotland
"UK": = England/Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland
"The North" = Donegal ?

veryangryman · 27-08-2011 3:02pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Maybe RTE just want to report things properly without having useless bog-talk littering their news items.

Perhaps they want the rest of the world to be able to fully understand it.

Why the fk would it matter whether the rest of the world understand it. It's irish news for Ireland.

oppenheimer1 · 27-08-2011 3:30pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

RTE come out with this one all the time -referring to the UK as "The North and the UK" :rolleyes:

Notes to editors:
"Britain": = That slightly big island to the East consisting of England/Wales/Scotland
"UK": = England/Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland
"The North" = Donegal ?

And what about the BBC referring to Ireland as the Irish Republic? Do you have a problem with that too?

RTÉ's output is aimed at Ireland and whether it is technically correct is irrelevant, as long as it is understood. I can't say I've heard them use the phrase you say they do, but RTE regularly use the term Britain and NI.

LordSutch · 28-08-2011 9:09am

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I can't say I've heard them use the phrase you say they do, but RTE regularly use the term Britain and NI.

Six One News from the 24th of August . . .

Go to 1:20 of the report & you will hear what we are talking about!

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2011/0824/media-3033852.html

Mike 1972 · 28-08-2011 9:49am

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

And what about the BBC referring to Ireland as the Irish Republic? Do you have a problem with that too?

"Ireland" = unclear as to whether the speaker is referring to a country or an island consisting of two countries collectively.

"Irish Republic" = That country which is....you know...Irish....and...a Republic.....

veryangryman wrote: »

Why the fk would it matter whether the rest of the world understand it. It's irish news for Ireland.

Increasingly accessible outside of Ireland and to recent arrivals within Ireland

Sonnenblumen · 28-08-2011 1:15pm

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I was reading the (now locked) thread about Northern Ireland and the UK, and a user (Naomi00) stated:

I find this really hard to believe, and asked for some links to see whether this had occurred or not. But the thread was locked.

So my question is, does anyone recall RTE doing this, and if so when, and any links?

I would be more concerned about the interminable demise of the national broadcaster becoming an incestuous platform for c listed celebrity reality programming.:mad:

Thanks for relieving me of this rant.;)

shannon_tek · 28-08-2011 1:18pm

Been watching too much BBC when they are commenting on Irish Affairs :pac:

oppenheimer1 · 28-08-2011 10:36pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

"Irish Republic" = That country which is....you know...Irish....and...a Republic.....

The country which... you know... hasn't existed since 1922. Incidentally it referred to the whole island back then.

The only reason british media organisations, such as the BBC, use the term above is to not offend unionists and is a hangover from the UK/Ireland naming dispute.

later12 · 28-08-2011 10:59pm

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I was reading the (now locked) thread about Northern Ireland and the UK, and a user (Naomi00) stated:

I find this really hard to believe, and asked for some links to see whether this had occurred or not. But the thread was locked.

So my question is, does anyone recall RTE doing this, and if so when, and any links?

To get back on topic I remember reading this too, in fact I think I questioned it at the time (although I cannot remember who posted it), and would also appreciate an answer.

I have never heard RTE call the Taoiseach the Prime Minister. Can whoever made that claim clarify it, or give an example?

Mike 1972 · 28-08-2011 11:54pm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The country which... you know... hasn't existed since 1922.ever .

FYP !

LordSutch · 29-08-2011 8:47am

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The only reason british media organisations, such as the BBC, use the term above is to not offend unionists and is a hangover from the UK/Ireland naming dispute.

No I disagree, the reason the Beeb may report on a story regarding "The Republic of Ireland" would be to distingush it from the island of Ireland which is a geographical entity. Obviousy Northern Ireland is not part of the Republic, and if the BBC just refer to "Irelands economy" for example, then people in Britain may visualise the whole island? or not? so the clarification is needed for certain stories that don't involve Northern Ireland.

Katekat · 29-08-2011 10:39am

What exactly is the issue here? An Taoiseach is pretty much described in the constitution as head of government or prime minister, so depending on the context and who was involved in the discussion they are theoretically correct. (now if it happened on Nuacht that would be embarrassing but would still depend on the context). The dail - its part of the "houses" making up the Oireachtas and should be better described as the lower house of parliament (as bearla)........ so can someone tell me what the issue is here?

ResearchWill · 29-08-2011 10:56am

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Is "prime minister" basically not a pretty accurate description of what a Taoiseach is ?

Im sure lots of countries have fancy titles for their heads of government in their local languages but one rarely hears them used in English language news bulletins.

Never understood why Ireland insists on calling its prime minister a "Taoiseach" (Even when speaking Irish/Gaelic whats wrong with "Priomh Aire" ?) its police "Gardai", etc etc. Comes across as being insistent on being different to other countries purely for for the sake of it

The reason that the Taoiseach should not be called anything other than Taoiseach is that the Constitution states at 28 5 1

"The head of the government, or Prime Minister, shall be called, and in this Constitution referred to as, the Taoiseach."

If the constitution wished the Taoiseach to be referred to as Prime Minister it would have said "or in the English language "Prime Minister"

LordSutch · 29-08-2011 12:07pm

When describing what the Taoiseach is & what he does to 'outsiders' then the obvious title is Prime Minister, because to all intents & purposes that is what he is, and that is what his job entails - simples

Nodin · 29-08-2011 12:20pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Maybe RTE just want to report things properly without having useless bog-talk littering their news items.

Perhaps they want the rest of the world to be able to fully understand it.

Its rather telling that, even now, I find some of the ignorance displayed around here breathtaking.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

egarding Enda as Prime Minister, well he is our Prime Minister in the English language, and depending on the context, then I see nothing at all wrong with describing the Taoiseach of the day as the Irish Prime Minister, because he is !!! .

The official title of his office, as laid out in law, is Taoiseach. Given your views, however, its not at all suprising you'd be more comfortable with 'Prime Minister'.

Mike 1972 · 29-08-2011 4:56pm

ResearchWill wrote: »

The reason that the Taoiseach should not be called anything other than Taoiseach is that the Constitution states at 28 5 1

The constitution also says something about wimmens duties in the home

And thats a pile of shyte too !

catbear · 29-08-2011 5:08pm

I thought Taoiseach meant chieftain and TDs were messengers to the Chieftain. Prime Minister is the speaker for the cabinet where as chieftain is chieftain.

Wolfe Tone · 29-08-2011 7:02pm

I'm sure if they did so it was a mistake.

Richard · 29-08-2011 8:58pm

goose2005 wrote: »

no, they are the lower house of parliament. The Oireachtas is our parliament (Dail + Seanad).

Ok, the Oireachtas and Palace of Westminster are both parliaments. My point still stands.

Richard · 29-08-2011 9:00pm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The only reason british media organisations, such as the BBC, use the term above is to not offend unionists and is a hangover from the UK/Ireland naming dispute.

Well, it could be. Or, here in the real world, it could actually be that the word "Ireland" is ambiguous.

oppenheimer1 · 29-08-2011 9:15pm

Richard wrote: »

Well, it could be. Or, here in the real world, it could actually be that the word "Ireland" is ambiguous.

Then why not use the official description, the "Republic of Ireland"?

The Irish republic is only used because of unionist objections.

oppenheimer1 · 29-08-2011 9:20pm

LordSutch wrote: »

No I disagree, the reason the Beeb may report on a story regarding "The Republic of Ireland" would be to distingush it from the island of Ireland which is a geographical entity. Obviousy Northern Ireland is not part of the Republic, and if the BBC just refer to "Irelands economy" for example, then people in Britain may visualise the whole island? or not? so the clarification is needed for certain stories that don't involve Northern Ireland.

I agree that the term Ireland can be ambiguous in certain circumstances but the Republic of Ireland Act gave the country an official description to help clarify matters. In fact if an ambassador turns up at the Aras with an accreditation letter to the head of the Irish Republic, he or she will be turned away, while letters to Éire, Ireland or the Republic of Ireland will be accepted.

Query: "....RTE have referred to the Taoiseach as the 'prime minister'....."

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