Gay couple kicked out of bar for kissing on the dancefloor

Hazys

http://www.thejournal.ie/cork-bar-accused-of-kicking-gay-couple-out-for-kissing-207647-Aug2011/

A POPULAR CORK NIGHTSPOT has been accused of asking a gay couple to leave the premises after they kissed on its dancefloor.

A doorman at the Old Oak bar on Oliver Plunkett Street in the city asked a student and his boyfriend to leave the bar late on Friday night, having earlier given them a verbal warning following an earlier kiss.

Witnesses to the incident told TheJournal.ie that though the pair had been given an initial warning by the doorman following their first kiss, they kissed again on the bar’s dancefloor at around 1:30am.

Moments later, security staff at the bar approached them and asked them to leave the premises.

The student involved declined to comment when contacted, saying he was seeking legal advice on the matter and that it was being reported to the Equality Authority.

When contacted, the Old Oak asked that queries be sent via email, and it had not responded to TheJournal.ie‘s queries at the time of publication.

The bar’s Facebook page, where many had left comments voicing their anger at Friday’s events, was deleted last night.

Discrimination in the provision of goods and services on the basis of sexual orientation is prohibited under the Equal Status Act 2000.

Pretty f'd up in this day and age.

I live in the Massachussetts where gay marriage is legal and its not uncommon to see gay folks holding hands walking down the street without being bothered or anything.

In my home town Cork, it'd be very rare see to openly gay people on the street but even with that i'm still very suprised that there is that level of discrimination.

Even with the recognization of same-sex unions, i'd have to think Ireland is not as open to gay people as most other progessive countries.

Sonics2k

In before shít storm debate.

My name is URL

I've seen straight people get kicked out of bars for eating the faces of each other. Is it not a rule in loads of nightclubs that there's to be no kissing on the dance-floor?

marty1985

In before Catholic Church!

Sonics2k

My name is URL wrote: »

I've seen straight people get kicked out of bars for eating the faces of each other. Is it not a rule in loads of nightclubs that there's to be no kissing on the dance-floor?

Old Oak isn't a nightclub, just a regular pub.

I've been in there plenty of times and seen lots of PDA's from straight couples.
It really honestly is a case of a homophobic bouncer with a power trip.

later12

Hazys wrote: »

I live in the Massachussetts where gay marriage is legal

but not federally recognized...

Ireland is plenty progressive, in any country you will get pockets of homophobia/ racism/ religious bigotry/ [enter other small-mindedness here]

I dislike the tone that you seem to believe this is illustrative of Irish society, I have often - yes, often - seen gay and lesbian couples walking around holding hands in Dublin city centre.

Maybe you are not really in touch with how progressive mainstream Irish society is in this sense, because you don't live here.

jive

Woah, woah, hold on. You mean a bouncer was unfair? The bouncer didn't treat people equally? (brb every 16 year old girl with a short skirt not getting ID'd) Honestly get over it. The gay couple were warned and continued to do what they were told not to. I've seen straight people being kicked out of places as well but it never made the papers because it's a non-story, just like this one.

Aoifey!

I was wondering how long it'd take for this to reach AH.

If it is as the story says, just an innocent couple of kisses and they got kicked out, then it totally out of order and something needs to be done.

However, if they were going completely over top, then it's fair enough to get kicked out (as with a straight couple).

WindSock

Tie a pink ribbon around the Old Oak pub.

Hazys

later10 wrote: »

but not federally recognized...

Ireland is plenty progressive, in any country you will get pockets of homophobia/ racism/ religious bigotry/ [enter other small-mindedness here]

I dislike the tone that you seem to believe this is illustrative of Irish society, I have often - yes, often - seen gay and lesbian couples walking around holding hands in Dublin city centre.

Maybe you are not really in touch with how progressive mainstream Irish society is in this sense, because you don't live here.

Well to be fair you shouldnt compare Ireland to the US as a whole. There are many states in the US in which gay people would be treated much worse than in Ireland. I was just comparing Ireland to Massachussetts. Can you ever compare Ireland to another place without being anti-Ireland or something?

Yes everwhere has bigots, but some places have less than others. In Boston the majority of gay people live in Cambridge or the South End where on some streets the majority of restaurants and bars are gay. Saying that places like South Boston would be less open to the gay community.

It was only 3 years ago when i lived in Ireland so i doubt things have changed that much.

Hazys

Hazys wrote: »

its not uncommon to see gay folks holding hands walking down the street without being bothered or anything.

In my home town Cork, it'd be very rare see to openly gay people on the street but even with that i'm still very suprised that there is that level of discrimination.

I think the issue here is that you see less openly gay/straight/bi/anything sexual people in Ireland. We're not generally a touchy feely people, and I myself wouldn't normally hold my boyfriend's hand on the street. We're straight, but we just don't act coupley in public. I've known/know plenty of gay people who have never been discriminated against, and don't know any who have been. There's plenty of gay people on Cork streets, they just don't walk down the street eating the face of other people.

Even with the recognization of same-sex unions, i'd have to think Ireland is not as open to gay people as most other progessive countries.

Why is that? Judging an entire race of people because of the actions of one person in ~4million? Sounds pretty discriminatory to me...

Edit: Just saw your last post. You can compare Ireland to somewhere else without being "anti-Ireland", but when you compare Ireland to Massachusetts under the conditions of "Massachusetts recognises gay marriage" versus "one person in Ireland did something anti-gay one day", you're not exactly being fair. Has there never been even one incident of homophobia in your entire state? I'd say there has been, and I doubt anyone with a bit of sense judged the entire state over it.

Pure Sound

Disgraceful behaviour from the security and they should be punished for discrimination, this type of thing should not happen in this day and age

later12

jive wrote: »

Honestly get over it. The gay couple were warned and continued to do what they were told not to.

In fairness there is a valid question over how often straight couples are kicked out for similar behaviour.

This should all be on CCTV, so the magnitude of the PDA should be able to be easily established. If the couple have any case whatsoever, then they should have no problem in winning that case.

My name is URL

Sonics2k wrote: »

Old Oak isn't a nightclub, just a regular pub.

I've been in there plenty of times and seen lots of PDA's from straight couples.
It really honestly is a case of a homophobic bouncer with a power trip.

Does it have a dancefloor as is mentioned in the article? Is it a young people's pub or one for the auld fellas?

I'm not trying to say that it's right that they were kicked out, it's not.. but perhaps the bouncer in question thought that their intimacy would cause problems rather than see it as a problem in and of itself?

TheZohanS

They were given a direction by security which they ignored, only after that were they removed from the premises. They were being unreasonable by not complying with House Rules. Nothing to see here, move along.

Sonics2k

My name is URL wrote: »

Does it have a dancefloor as is mentioned in the article? Is it a young people's pub or one for the auld fellas?

I'm not trying to say that it's right that they were kicked out, it's not.. but perhaps the bouncer in question thought that their intimacy would cause problems rather than see it as a problem in and of itself?

It's a typically middle-aged bar, with a dance floor. But it has a pretty large younger crowd as well.

I've actually come across the bouncer in question a few times, and he honest to fúck is a complete douchebag at the best of times.

HalloweenJack

My name is URL wrote: »

I've seen straight people get kicked out of bars for eating the faces of each other. Is it not a rule in loads of nightclubs that there's to be no kissing on the dance-floor?

You can't be serious? What nightclub was this?

Considering nightclubs get a large amount of their business from people wanting to get pissed and pull someone on the dancefloor, it'd be suicide for them to kick people out for kissing. Anything, that's fair enough.

I'd understand if the lads were **** each other on the dancefloor but kissing is harmless. If they're going to give **** to one couple for kissing, they should give it to everyone. I don't for a second believe that any bouncer would do that, though.

It looks like an open and shut case of discrimination and the club/the bouncer should have the book thrown at them.

Pure Sound

TheZohan wrote: »

They were given a direction by security which they ignored, only after that were they removed from the premises. They were being unreasonable by not complying with House Rules. Nothing to see here, move along.

I would question why they were given that direction in the first place, surely that alone is discriminatory, would this happen to a couple that were not gay

Blisterman

According to a poster on the other thread about this, the pub's facebook page had photos of straight couples kissing on the dance floor.

So it's not just a case of house rules.

later12

Hazys wrote: »

It was only 3 years ago when i lived in Ireland so i doubt things have changed that much.

Well it isn't exactly clear that your experiences were representatively accurate even when you did live here, going by what seems to be your perception of the less than progressive nature of Irish society.

Also since you have left a few years ago civil partnership has been enacted into law in Ireland, and it seems pretty likely to me that PDAs have possibly become more common even in those latter few years. Ireland has tons of gay clubs/ nights, loads of gay youths are out to their families, in a practical sense Ireland does not have a homophobia problem.

If you are trying to suggest that this event in Cork is illustrative of a broad problem in society, then I'm sorry, but you're certainly wrong.

WindSock

Do you think he would have done the same if it were two chicks?

later12

TheZohan wrote: »

They were being unreasonable by not complying with House Rules.

Who said it was a house rule? Is it?

stovelid

Hard to judge until I know the facts. I have known heterosexual couples to get asked to leave pubs before for PDAs.

There might also be the factor of not wanting a row lo break out if homophobic meatheads spotted them smooching.

Who knows.

I doubt I would care enough to launch a campaign if I was booted out of a club for getting off with somebody but then again I'm forty so my days of making a enraged Voltarean stand for the right to drunkenly grope my partner in nightclubs in front of everybody isn't high of my list of human rights activities.

WindSock

stovelid wrote: »

There might also be the factor of not wanting a row lo break out if homophobic meatheads spotted them smooching.

Then they should be the ones removed.

mikemac

WindSock wrote: »

Do you think he would have done the same if it were two chicks?

I've never been in a pub in Cork but elsewhere, yes two girls have been removed for doing the same on the dancefloor

Forest Master

Wtf is a PDA? Like a palm pilot?

mikemac

public display of affection

py2006

In fairness they were probably asked to leave because there were some idiots giving them dodgy looks and they were afraid things would kick off!

Still though, shocking stuff!!

MungBean

mikemac wrote: »

I've never been in a pub in Cork but elsewhere, yes two girls have been removed for doing the same on the dancefloor

I've seen it many times down this end and never one spot of bother. Its probably down to individual bouncers how they manage this type of thing and I'd say (if it was a case of just kissing) the bouncer just had a problem with it.

stovelid

WindSock wrote: »

stovelid wrote: »

There might also be the factor of not wanting a row lo break out if homophobic meatheads spotted them smooching.

Then they should be the ones removed.

Quit the pc lecture. In not condoning it, just wondering why they would bother kicking them out a It's bound to cause negative publicity.

mikemac

he was seeking legal advice on the matter and that it was being reported to the Equality Authority.

Ca-ching

Skunkle wrote: »

the bouncer just had a problem with it.

Maybe the bouncer doesn't have an issue but management call the shots so management wanted them out
Let's not blame the bouncer when we don't know what happened

Sonics2k

later10 wrote: »

Who said it was a house rule? Is it?

For the record.
It's not.

And to my knowledge this is not the first time a gay couple has been asked to leave the Old Oak in similar circumstances.
Oddly enough I've never heard of a straight couple (or even two young good looking girls) get removed for kissing there.

prinz

Could I just point out that I have heard another version of the story from a friend in Cork that puts an entirely different slant on it?

In the version I heard the two lads were pissed and acting like morons, and the fact they were booted had less to do with the fact they were kissing than with the fact they were acting like drunken fools in general. Of course it's much easier to scream homophobia..

Nolanger

Sonics2k wrote: »

Oddly enough I've never heard of a straight couple (or even two young good looking girls) get removed for kissing there.

Bet if a straight couple kissed on a dancefloor in a gay nightclub they would?

Sonics2k

Nolanger wrote: »

Bet if a straight couple kissed on a dancefloor in a gay nightclub they would?

Doubt it.
I've been going to Cork's main gay bar for years with my friends, and not once has a bouncer asked me to leave for kissing my girlfriend there.

Sure there may be a few people there who may not like it, the same as a in any other bar.
The point is a couple should not be removed from a bar for simply kissing eachother.

It would be understandable for any couple to removed from a bar for getting extremely physical with eachother, but not a kiss.

TheZohanS

We Need Community wrote: »

I would question why they were given that direction in the first place, surely that alone is discriminatory, would this happen to a couple that were not gay

I was told to take out an eyebrow ring once by security as I was entering a nightclub. Reason? In case someone started on me and ripped out the ring. I told the bouncer I'd take my chances and he refused me entry, for my own safety. I took out the ring and was allowed inside.

later10 wrote: »

Who said it was a house rule? Is it?

It was a direction given by the people responsible for the safety and welfare of all patrons frequenting the premises. If you don't like the rules you can leave.

The bouncers gave them fair warning and they continued, they knew what would happen.

MungBean

EDIT: nevermind.....stupid post

MungBean

TheZohan wrote: »

I was told to take out an eyebrow ring once by security as I was entering a nightclub. Reason? In case someone started on me and ripped out the ring. I told the bouncer I'd take my chances and he refused me entry, for my own safety. I took out the ring and was allowed inside.



It was a direction given by the people responsible for the safety and welfare of all patrons frequenting the premises. If you don't like the rules you can leave.

The bouncers gave them fair warning and they continued, they knew what would happen.

Thats not a licence to discriminate though. The question is WHY were they instructed to stop.

TylerIE

TheZohan wrote: »

They were given a direction by security which they ignored, only after that were they removed from the premises. They were being unreasonable by not complying with House Rules. Nothing to see here, move along.

If security told a patron to skull ten pints, or strip, or told a straight guy to kiss another guy would it then be acceptable for security to tell them to leave if they failed to comply?

If the incident is as described, security gave a discriminatory and unreasonable direction in the first place. Hopefully the alleged victims get access to CCTV to prove their case, but innocent until proven guilty of course (although if there is cameras but CCTV is hidden that does raise questions).

FlutterinBantam

Hazys wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/cork-bar-accused-of-kicking-gay-couple-out-for-kissing-207647-Aug2011/



Pretty f'd up in this day and age.

I live in the Massachussetts where gay marriage is legal and its not uncommon to see gay folks holding hands walking down the street without being bothered or anything.

In my home town Cork, it'd be very rare see to openly gay people on the street but even with that i'm still very suprised that there is that level of discrimination.

Even with the recognization of same-sex unions, i'd have to think Ireland is not as open to gay people as most other progessive countries.

Provincetown lad are we?;)

Old Oak

official statement from both parties involved:

Joint Statement re incident in Old Oak – Friday 19th into Saturday 20th August 2011


We, the parties involved in the incident last Friday night, met today, 23rd
August, to discuss the events which occurred.

After deliberations and discussions both parties accepted and conceded that mistakes were made by all involved.

The Old Oak apologised for any offence which was taken, but stressed that no offence whatsoever was meant or intended as we are not and never have been anti Gay.

Equally the couple involved, who wish to remain anonymous, accepted that they could have handled matters in a better way.

Both parties look forward to continuing good relations and custom.

TheZohanS

lst wrote: »

If security told a patron to skull ten pints, or strip, or told a straight guy to kiss another guy would it then be acceptable for security to tell them to leave if they failed to comply?

Stop being silly.

If the incident is as described, security gave a discriminatory and unreasonable direction in the first place. Hopefully the alleged victims get access to CCTV to prove their case, but innocent until proven guilty of course (although if there is cameras but CCTV is hidden that does raise questions).

How do you know? How do you know that the two weren't dry humping on the dancefloor and in the way of other revellers?

Or a bouncer told the two guys not to snog because they knew it would get a bad reaction from a few d1ckheads in the bar/club then what's the problem? He was saving them some grief and keeping them safe. It's sad that we still live in a world where not everyone accepts gay people but that's life.

Do you honestly think a bouncer would personally give a damn if two guys were kissing? He would in his bollocks, all they want to do is head home in one piece and not have to spend ages writing up incident sheets. Or even worse have to leave the premises to drive someone that's been assaulted to casualty because some drunken ass took exception to him kissing another fella.

wild_cat

TheZohan wrote: »

How do you know? How do you know that the two weren't dry humping on the dancefloor and in the way of other revellers?

Or a bouncer told the two guys not to snog because they knew it would get a bad reaction from a few d1ckheads in the bar/club then what's the problem? He was saving them some grief and keeping them safe. It's sad that we still live in a world where not everyone accepts gay people but that's life.

Do you honestly think a bouncer would personally give a damn if two guys were kissing? He would in his bollocks, all they want to do is head home in one piece and not have to spend ages writing up incident sheets. Or even worse have to leave the premises to drive someone that's been assaulted to casualty because some drunken ass took exception to him kissing another fella.

Why not kick out the homophobes?

I read in the comments of the journal article that the club in question had plenty of pictures of girls kissing each other on their facebook page.

WeightierDisc

Gary Oak?


I always thought he was after Misty? Or Nurse Joy? Not Ash, or Professor Oak for that matter?

arybvtcw0eolkf

My name is URL wrote: »

I've seen straight people get kicked out of bars for eating the faces of each other. Is it not a rule in loads of nightclubs that there's to be no kissing on the dance-floor?

In my experience its common bar/club policy to ask people to be a little discrete with their public displays of affection.

I've asked straight and homosexual couples to observe the premises rules more times than I could possibly recall for the forum, and each & every time its only been gay couples who have made an issue of it.

Usually in the case of homosexuals its a case of equal rights for all, but we're more equal than the others!.

charlemont

The bouncer who was involved in that incident is always trying to push his weight around anyway.

TheZohanS

wild_cat wrote: »

Why not kick out the homophobes?

I read in the comments of the journal article that the club in question had plenty of pictures of girls kissing each other on their facebook page.

Thing is you won't know who they are 'til after they've started on some poor sod.

prinz

wild_cat wrote: »

Why not kick out the homophobes?

In fairness let's say I went up to the Players Lounge in a Rangers jersey with my Union Jack flag the bouncers would be right to kick me out rather than try to kick out say twenty/thirty or so people who might take issue with me. That's not to say the others wouldn't be arseholes, but it's just realistic.

They need to keep order and deal with problems quickly and quietly, sometimes that involves getting the people 'in the right' to go somewhere else. It would be as much for my own protection as anything else.

The same things applies on boards tbh, even if you are technically in the right, the Mods will sometimes pander to the regular/more numerous forum users in order to maintain the peace.

WindSock

stovelid wrote: »

Quit the pc lecture. In not condoning it, just wondering why they would bother kicking them out a It's bound to cause negative publicity.

I was being neither politically correct nor lecturing when I said the trouble making people should be removed, rather than the affectionate ones.

MitchKoobski

I like how a response has been given by the pub and both sides have settled it between themselves....and yet the argument keeps going.


Boards.....Boards never changes....

Dudess

The anti Old Oak Facebook pages are ridiculous - so hysterical and OTT. It is very easy to take things at face value and assume this was a blatant act of gay-bashing. And even though The Old Oak is a place where gropey PDAs are very much prevalent - the place is known for it - it is also an extremely blokey, macho establishment, so two lads snogging could have caused absolute ructions, and the bouncers may just have been doing what it took to prevent a sh1t-storm. And protecting the safety of the lads.

Surprised to hear of any college kids in the place anyway - its clientele is MUCH older. To be honest, I suspect they were on a wind-up...