Kids and strange dogs

TG1

Just want to get thoughts on this one, as I'm a bit shaken up by the whole thing and am now wondering was I in the wrong.
I had my dog out for a walk on a busy walkway near me. There are always loads of kids, off lead dogs, bikes, rollerbladers etc. on this walk and I've never had an issue before. The by-laws state dogs must be under effective control but nowhere does it mention on a lead.
my dog was off the lead, when 6 small children started running towards him screaming "look at the doggie" with hands outstretched to pet him... my poor guy is usually quite sociable, but 6 screaming children was too much so he legged it past them and waited for me round the corner, so no harm done.
I decided however that this could escalate into a very dangerous situation with other dogs, so as I passed the adult who was with the kids, I said (very nicely, I might add!) that not all dogs will react to a perceived threat the way mine did.
She lost the plot a bit and started screaming about how my dog was out of control and it wasn't her problem...
Now, I don't have children, so I'm not in a position to judge a parent, and I understand parents are naturally worried about off lead dogs, but I would have thought that if this was the case, teaching a child to approach a dog properly would be a priority!
I would hate to have her call animal control on somebody's well trained beloved pet because it growled at her children when they approach in a screaming pack!
If 6 dogs had approached a child like this they probably would have been put down!
I was furious about the way she reacted to me, but didn't want to say something Id regret so I left it at that and walked off.
now that I'm home and have time to think about it I realise maybe she thought I was criticising her parenting or something, but all I wanted to do was prevent an accident happening, so I was wondering has anyone encountered anything like this before, or what do dog owning parents out there think?

Tranceypoo

I probably would have done the same thing, although my dogs are never off lead, but that's because neither of them have any recall so that's my fault, as you say, by-law states your dog has to be under proper control, it doesn't specify you have to have it on a lead, so you have done nothing wrong. Now, doesn't necessarily mean she won't report you, although I'm not sure for what - what exactly did your dog do cos first you said it ran past them and then you say it growled at them, can you clarify? Anyways, either way sounds like no harm was done, did you get a feeling she might be reporting you?

ferretone

Op, I think you have it in one with your closing comment about the woman having her parenting criticised. In my experience, many mothers get extremely defensive if any comment is made about anything to do with them in connection with their child/ren, no matter how outrageous the behaviour may be, and I've certainly seen a thing or 2 out walking in my time. In such instances they will invariably attack you and your dog's behaviour in turn, regardless whether either of you has done anything wrong.

On the other hand, it really does pay to err on the side of caution as regards just how free you leave your dog when off-lead in a public place. In parks etc I'm always prepared in case I see people coming to recall my dog and put her on a lead, especially small children, elderly people, people on bicycles, joggers, those with dogs on leads, and also anyone who looks even remotely nervous or uncomfortable.

If you have your dog recalled and back on the lead as soon as you spot the woman's poorly-trained/socialised offspring, there will be no issue for her to counter with if you make a sensible suggestion to her, as you will have demonstrated your "effective control".

Well, so long as you don't make the mistake I did a few years ago: I unwittingly brought my leashed dog within a couple of metres of her precious child when I was returning to her the nappy she had just "lost" in the canal in the park :rolleyes: :P

TG1

sorry if the post was confusing, I wrote it within 2 mins of getting home from the walk so it didn't get re-read before posting!
To clarify, my dog ran past them without growling, as he had space to get past them.
I mentioned growling in the context that if they approached another dog in the same way on a narrower bit of the path where it couldn't escape like my guy, it would be foreseeable that a dog could react by growling, or worse.
I don't think she will report me as really she doesn't have a leg to stand on but it's not nice to get screamed at for trying to prevent future accidents that could result in her children getting bitten and I was a bit upset by the whole thing!

cocker5

OP... dont blame you at all.... My cocker is very social.. loves other dogs and people including people... and lots of children ask if they can pet him so i say yes of course.. i make him sit etc and they rub away etc.... he loves it... but if 6 unruley children started screaming at him and ran towards him he would do one of two things.... run off as your lad did... or step back and bark with fright..... and if it was the latter my god that parent prob would have accused my dog of being out of contol and agressive... which couldnt be more from the truth...

as much as we need to teach dogs how to socialise with children .... PARENTS must teach their children how to treat and approach a dog... expecially a strange dog they have never met...

As an adult i adore dogs but if i meet a strange dog i always put out my hand and wait for the "signal" thats its cool to pet the etc... children should be told the signs too...

i only ever walk my guy off lead up the mountains (as he's not street wise and would get knocked over otherwise)... so rarely run into kids... but when we do he's very good and keeps his distance etc...

but 6 kids running and screaming towards him he may be different story... :eek:

personaly i would have told her to control her children... maybe suggest a lead or a harness!!

piperh

I frequently have a similar situation with my 2 where the kids from the front of the estate come running. My little girl loves the attention and rolls immediatly onto her back for a belly rub, my guy on the other hand actually stands behind me as if to say "protect me from the screaming monsters mom" he won't move until i say its ok and to come and say hello and even then he's uncomfortable so i say 1 of the children can stroke him. Its a shame because he loves kids and is happy for them to stroke him if its done in the right way.

I think your right the woman should have taught her kids better and was probably being defensive because she thought you were critisizing (sp?)her parenting.

On a side note as you quoted the by law if your woman wanted to be awkward by the sheer fact your dog was able to run off it could be perceived as not under control.

TG1

this is great to see I'm not totally overreacting here!
as for the points made about putting him on the lead when I spotted the kids, to be honest, it was a case of unfortunate timing! We had just come across a bridge where there is a path running at a 90 degree angle to the left and right of it so the turn is pretty blind. I make him sit here so he doesn't run in front of a bike or something, and the Kids came round the corner from the other direction just as I had him sitting and when they started screaming and reaching out to him he legged it through the grass verge beside the path so I didn't get a chance to put him on the lead.
I don't usually put him on a lead as I can call him to heel and point to the grass verge that runs on both sides of the walk and he will walk in there till any children/bikes etc. go past, however with this lot I would have had I seen them!
as for him running off, had I called him he would have come back but I was just glad to get him out of that situation, although I know the parent wouldn't have known this!
I do totally understand that the person with the children was just acting defensively but I was so shocked that she'd scream at me like that over pointing out something so small!!!
And ferretone, Im glad she didn't "loose" any nappies in front of me as I would probably have said much more to her had that been the case!!!

aisher

I know how you feel! I have a young puppy and she looks really cute but she is still in the process of jumping up and 'mouthing'. I was out walking with her - on the leash and about 6 kids came running over and starting to paw the dog - she did the usual - jumping and mouting and one kid screamed 'she bit me'! I nearly died - pulled pooch away and made a hasty retreat - I know kids are kids but its hard when they just descend on you - I tell my own kids never to approach a dog without asking the owner first but obviously some people dont pass on the same advice to their own kids!!! I dont think you did anything wrong and I think the woman was in the camp of dont tell me what to do!

mymo

I have two dogs that are very cute and cuddly looking (kid magnets) and the number of times this has happened is scary.
Mine are friendly and love be hugged and cuddled by kids but I always ask the kids to stay back until I tell my dogs to be calm and say hello.
I have said something similar to the OP to parents several times and have had similar reactions, only once did a parent stop the child and explain to them that it was not the way to say hello to a dog, she then asked me to show the child how to say hello. I wish all parents would do this.

I am a parent and grew up with many animals, I taught my child not to approach any dog even with a wagging tail, even if it was someone we knew with a dog she'd met before, she knew to ask and wait to pet a dog.

If the worst did happen and a dog bit one of these kids, you can guarantee it would be the dogs fault, even if it was on a lead, thats the sad part.

dillodaffs

This is something that i encounter a lot as well, it is something that always makes me feel a bit akward handling.... for example, usually i walk in a wooded area with the two off the leash (both are mini schnauzers), and sometimes meet parents and kids walking to. i call the dogs straight away and put them on the lead when i see them.

But i can hear the kids talking excitedly as they approach, all excited to see doggies...then outstretched arms and hands come flying towards the doggies... i say hi to kids and ask them to just wait a minute til doggies are ready to say hello. my two are very timid and when 2 or 3 kids approach at speed with outstretched arms they try to hide behind my legs.

But then parents come rushing up....i think seeing me asking kids to wait as a sign that my doggies are aggressive and will rip their kids faces off? i always exlain to them that doggies are fine, just timid when kids approach at speed. It annoys me because they are not aggressive at all, but these parents never stop their kids from approaching like loonies?

Only once have i had a woman approach with her child, she told her young one to wait a minute, that she had to ask to see if it was ok to to say hi to the doggie, that doggie might not want to say hello. i so wish more parents would do this.

Shanao

Something I'm getting pretty sick of as well, though since big dog is now as high as my hip, I definitely get more parents dragging their kids away than letting them run up to him. But I've had kids run straight up to him and grab his ears, his tail, his upper lip even one day. Fortunately, he absolutely adores kids and is very calm when they approach him, even a few at speed, but its still quite annoying. He is big and could accidentally knock them over and then who would be at fault? On top of that, he's an RB so a child being accidentally knocked by him could turn far too quickly into dog tries to maul child :rolleyes:

Chris_Heilong

Shanao wrote: »

Something I'm getting pretty sick of as well, though since big dog is now as high as my hip, I definitely get more parents dragging their kids away than letting them run up to him. But I've had kids run straight up to him and grab his ears, his tail, his upper lip even one day. Fortunately, he absolutely adores kids and is very calm when they approach him, even a few at speed, but its still quite annoying. He is big and could accidentally knock them over and then who would be at fault? On top of that, he's an RB so a child being accidentally knocked by him could turn far too quickly into dog tries to maul child :rolleyes:

I am in the exact same situation, Lucky my dog is so frienfly:) Shaneo you should post a picture of your big guy, I remember seeing one a while back but I should think he is much bigger now.

Cú Giobach

One of my dogs gives a big submissive grin (that looks like a snarl to non doggie people) to everybody she meets, and scares the sh*te out of lots of children when they first meet her, that keeps them away from her until I explain. Very Handy.

TG1

Its great to see I'm not alone on this one! my guy is a little 18 kg fluffy border collie type who permanently looks like he's smiling so he does attract attention, so I do think I'll start keeping him on the lead more often as even though I know he's under control, other people might not realise it, hence the reaction of the parent in this situation... I would hate to have seen her reaction to me had I had a bigger dog to be honest...!
I just couldn't understand how, after all the media attention given to dog bites etc. over the last few years, this woman could let her children approach a dog like that...
That being said, I met a lovely child and parent out in the park yesterday who approached me and asked could they rub him, so had him sitting quietly before she came near him. She was so gentle with him, so I told her a few of his tricks and he spent 10 mins giving the child high fives, she loved it! In my book that's how a child should be taught to approach a dog!

Carol555

TG1 you're definitely not alone. Uncontrollable kids are every dog owner's nightmare because, as mymo said, if anything happens, it will be dog's fault anyway. I think it is basic politeness to ask 'can I pet your dog?', not even common sense. I'd love to see some peoples' faces if I started messing with their kids without a word .

I'm a lucky owner of a collie who adores kids and after some training he knows that he has to be gentle with them, enjoys cuddles, kids' noises and hugging. We both enjoy meeting kids with sensible parents. Although one day we were passed by mother and a small boy, he could be 5 or 6 years old. My dog was on a lead minding his own business. Just as they passed us, the boy suddenly turned around, leaped towards the dog from behind and grabbed his fur with a some strange sound. My dog nearly jumped up out of surprise, so did I but thankfully the dog just wagged his tail when he saw it was a kid and we moved on. How many normal, well behaved dogs would instinctively turn their head back and nip on something grabbing them from behind? There is only so much the dog owner can do.

Usually when local kids are doing something silly I explain to them nicely how to behave and show them few tricks. It's fun and kids love it but it can be much harder to have the same chat when parents are around. I would love to see a scheme where volunteers come to school with dogs and explain the basics to kids like here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-12971905

JustAThought

Children are a problem with dogs. I think it's lovely to encourage them to like dogs and I love to hear the exited voices when they see my pet, or watch them as they tug at their parents to bring them over to see the dog, but I've learned from experience that it's ultimately up to me to control the situation. Excited kids can do mad tbings, and spooked kids can cry terribly quickly at nothing leaving it looklike something happened. Some kids are so badly behaved that I say no cos the dog is tired. Usually I say yes but ask them to wait til she's sitting and then to give her a pat on the back as I distract her with a treat. Dog gets treat, kid gets a pat in , everyone wins!!! Inever let anyone pat her unless their parent is there and has approved, or if they're eating or have a toy in their hand, or are a brat!!!!
Dog now licks her lips when she sees them coming; which is funny but I have got a few questions about that!!!!

Hellrazer

I have my lot trained (the kids not the dogs) to never approach a strange dog without first asking the owner if its ok.

So far its worked and they wont even go near a dog they dont know without asking.

Its not worth taking a chance on them approaching a dog that could potentially attack.And to be totally honest any parent that hasnt drummed this into their children needs parenting lessons.

JustAThought

I was brought up thatway and took for granted that everyone else was too; turns out you re. In the minority, unfortunately. About maybe 10-15% ask ( and that's being generous); the rest lunge!!!

I agree : ) that's the right approach!!!

I brought mine to a music festival in rhe park and was horrified at the number of kids I had around me as I sat there; not ones you could talk to or reason with but literally toddlers and crawlers. My dog is lovely natured but it was shocking. One took the water bowl and tipped it, another threw her toy away, another crawled up and stuck his head in the food pellets (haha but terrible) and any of these could have been a disaster. The OP is right; people with kids don't like you even querying their decisions, but if you don't say something they ll never learn; the kids arejustkids; it's the parents that needto be taught.

emmabrighton

Not trying to hijack the thread but how do you train your dog that kids are not scary. Early this summer I was out picking stones in my field - I knew my brother was coming with his 3 small kids - and when they arrived my cocker spaniel and I were half way across the field. The kids climbed the fence and started hurteling towards us, clearly happy to see us. My dog perceived them as an immediate threat, raced over to them barking all the while.

It was definately a "keep back or else!!!" type of bark. Only that the kids stopped in their tracks with the shock and did not try to pet him, I dread to think what would have happened. He really is a placid dog and is excellent with cats. That is because he moved in with use when we already had 2 adult cats and he was 8 weeks old puppy. Unfortunately, he never gets to interact with kids - im working on changing that at the moment !!! But, for now, how do i convince him that kids are just not that dangerous????

mymo

Do you have any dog owning friends with kids? (the type that understand dogs, training and are patient)
I would start with older kids 10 or older, get the kids to approach slowly(not looking at the dog) while you tell the dog to sit, give the dog a treat and let the child come closer, get your dogs attention (try the see me command, when the dog has to look at your face) treat and say hello to the child.
Keep the child at least 3 feet away and greet the child, ask them to kneel and say hello to dog, no touching, if the dog is calm let them reach out so the dog can sniff them, again no touching. Repeat as many times as you need.

I would walk the dog in areas where there are kids nearby but not too close until you know he's relaxed. Then move closer, try to keep away from situations where kids are libel to run at you.
Its a slow process, but your dog is still young.

emmabrighton

Thanks Mymo,

Thats some great advice. Will walk him in the local park this evening - there is an enclosed playground nearby which i normally avoid but will walk past it today.

Got a bit of a start reading the posts over on another thread - terrified I will run into scary kids and overprotective parents!!!

Baby steps like you said.