New helicopter air ambulance service to be introduced

Klunk001

According to the Sunday Business Post

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/air-ambulance-service-planned-to-cope-with-ae-closures-58196.html

roundymac

One problem is that a lot of our hospitals have no landing pads for helicopters. The landing pad at Cork University Hosp has been converted into a express bus entrance/exit. Anyone being flow to CUH has to go to Cork Airport 5 miles away.

Storm 10

UHG Galway has a brand new state of the art pad with lights, its been used very much by the Coastguard helicopter from Shannon almost on a daily basis for the last while.

Tabnabs

Two questions, how many hospitals have helipads in close proximity to the main building and

‘‘We’ve been discussing this, and I don’t want to go public with it yet but I am in discussions with a (helicopter) provider," the minister told the McGill Summer School in a question and answer session after he delivered his keynote speech.

Surely this has to go to tender first?

Klunk001

Tabnabs wrote: »

Surely this has to go to tender first?

I don't know. If run similar to the UK, ie: partly funed by donations, charities and the likes maybe it doesn't need to go to tender.

Fishtits

This is a classic case of just how shallow our past governments have been.

(I'm not party political, before the mods jump on me)

The one service this country needs is a decent air ambulance/trauma response service. (especially the western regions)

Once upon a time we had the money to provide it, but, it meant stepping on toes in terms of HSE protocols etc etc, nothing happened. Several private operators attempted to get a system off the ground but met victorian era attitudes when trying to interface with the HSE.

Shame.

PS, its only a rumour that I'm opinionated... and well informed.

pclancy

roundymac wrote: »

he landing pad at Cork University Hosp has been converted into a express bus entrance/exit. Anyone being flow to CUH has to go to Cork Airport 5 miles away.

:eek:

What was the logic behind that? Not enough movements to warrant their own helipad? Sounds madness to remove it.

FiSe

Problem is, that nobody's going to fork out dosh on private air ambulance. If run as a charity it wouldn't survive 1st year and there's no way that government will sign up and pay for 'Coastguard' type contract.

In my opinion, all this talk is just boilover from that unfortunate non-transfer from a few weeks ago.

clown2brown

FiSe wrote: »

In my opinion, all this talk is just boilover from that unfortunate non-transfer from a few weeks ago.

Totally agree, the money just isn't there and we won't see a private helicopter air ambulance for some time to come:(

Quaderno

Just seen on radiokerry.ie:

19 Dec 2011
Kerry charity says if chosen it would launch air ambulance service in February

A Kerry charity says if it is chosen to run Ireland's first dedicated air ambulance service, then it would launch operations on February 1st.
Air Ambulance Ireland, which is based in Tralee, has formally submitted its proposal that it run the service to the Minister for Heath.
The charity says it would use pilots and helicopters provided by HSE paramedics and Bond Air Services, which operates most air ambulance services in the UK.
Minister James Reilly is expected to make a decision next month as to who will run the emergency service.
Ireland is the only country in the EU without a dedicated helicopter air ambulance.
The chairman of Air Ambulance Ireland is Kerry County Councillor Pat McCarthy.

xflyer

Minister James Reilly is expected to make a decision next month as to who will run the emergency service.

Who'll pay for it more like because it won't be the taxpayer. Besides what will the Air Corps be left to do if that job is taken away from the them.

EchoIndia

I wouldn't hold my breath. These charities have been trying for a long time to get the State to buy in to their proposals and no one has bitten yet...

savagecabbages

From irishtimes.com

MINISTER FOR Health Dr James Reilly is set to make a decision on the introduction of an Irish air ambulance service next month following talks with a number of providers across the State.

...

AAI is one of three options open to the Minister, alongside Roscommon-based private company Lifelight Air Ambulance Ltd and an “in-house” service provided by the Air Corps using a new fleet of ambulance-enabled helicopters.

My reading of this is that the AC tender involves new machines, rather than spreading out the AW139's even more...

omg a kitty

If its a dedicated Air Ambulance, how is it gonna work if the Air Corps operate them from Baldonnell?
Anyway..Any predictions on what theyll buy? (if this ever happens)
EC-145s?

boredbaby

omg a kitty wrote: »

If its a dedicated Air Ambulance, how is it gonna work if the Air Corps operate them from Baldonnell?
Anyway..Any predictions on what theyll buy? (if this ever happens)
EC-145s?

Don't think there will be any new assets purchased for or by the Air Corps to run this service if it goes ahead. Heard a rumour it will be done by one of their existing EC135s and based somewhere in the West...most probably a barracks.

In this case it should cost little/nothing extra to run the service as funding would come from the existing budget.

Seems like a good use of state resources to me.

Quaderno

boredbaby wrote: »

Heard a rumour it will be done by one of their existing EC135s and based somewhere in the West...most probably a barracks.

If so then Tralee might be one of the places to start with. The barracks are just a stone's throw from Kerry General Hospital (by far the biggest in the southwest) with the respective landing pads only a few hundred meters apart from each other (the barracks are just south of the hospital with the "H" visible on the ground). Kerry Airport would also be very close for refueling and/or maintenance and in terms of operation area you would have the peninsulas which are hugely popular especially during the summer season but poorly accessible by ambulance and just under a million people between Kerry, Clare, Limerick and Cork counties, which would all be within easy reach of a helicopter based there. I would give it a go here and see how it works out. And yes, I am from Kerry

RadioRetro

Heard one of the guys behind the helo project interviewed on RTE Radio 1's News At One. Didn't get the start so didn't catch his name. The interview will be in the programme podcast.

Klunk001

Quaderno wrote: »

If so then Tralee might be one of the places to start with. The barracks are just a stone's throw from Kerry General Hospital (by far the biggest in the southwest) with the respective landing pads only a few hundred meters apart from each other (the barracks are just south of the hospital with the "H" visible on the ground). Kerry Airport would also be very close for refueling and/or maintenance and in terms of operation area you would have the peninsulas which are hugely popular especially during the summer season but poorly accessible by ambulance and just under a million people between Kerry, Clare, Limerick and Cork counties, which would all be within easy reach of a helicopter based there. I would give it a go here and see how it works out. And yes, I am from Kerry

All sorts of stories on the go at the mo. The main one I'm hearing is a heli will be based in the greater Dublin area and will position to the midlands where it will be on standby (daylight hours) before repositioning to the greater Dublin area at the end of the day. How long do you think that one will last :rolleyes:

boredbaby

Hadn't heard that rumour myself, but logistically that would be a nightmare. Therefore I doubt it's validity. What benefit is there to conducting 2 repositioning flights each day?

Only way it will work is to have a permanently based heli at a location deemed appropriate by the HSE and as far as I'm aware, that's what the AC have proposed/offered the HSE.

Trotter

Would Athlone Barracks be an ideal spot for it? It's a well staffed barracks with lots of open space for landing and servicing areas and it's geographical location is as central as you'll get.

Delancey

For all the talk about Air Ambulances the scientific / medical evidence to justify them is , at best , patchy.
London Air Ambulance was savaged a couple of years ago in a report that claimed well over 75% of call outs were unescessary and in some cases the patients were endangered by the use of the service.

This is Ireland ffs and its not like this is the Ozzie outback with vast distances between centres of population.

Given the inability / unwillingness of the Air Corps to provide Air Sea Search and Rescue services I fail to see why they should even be considered for this role.

I think its a ridiculous expense at this time but given that it may be a glamorous ' prestige ' project for the politicians....:rolleyes:

Quaderno

Delancey wrote: »

For all the talk about Air Ambulances the scientific / medical evidence to justify them is , at best , patchy.
London Air Ambulance was savaged a couple of years ago in a report that claimed well over 75% of call outs were unescessary and in some cases the patients were endangered by the use of the service.

This is Ireland ffs and its not like this is the Ozzie outback with vast distances between centres of population.
(...)
I think its a ridiculous expense at this time but given that it may be a glamorous ' prestige ' project for the politicians....:rolleyes:

I think what we have here is rather an "economies of scale" problem than one of politician's prestige or even lack of medical evidence. Without any deeper knowledge of scientific research re. HEMS I know from my personal background in Germany that there are and have indeed been very well working examples of Air Ambulances, and not only for a season or two but for decades. But they do things differently.

In Germany it would be impossible to run any meaningful medical service on a charitable basis alone, you have to get into the system of public health funding first. And since there really is fierce competition you will not only have to work very efficiently, but you will also have to stand over your results since the health insurance providers who pay for your services will want to know if and why things went wrong should something ever go wrong. But it can be done, really.
Right now there are 6 different commercial providers of air ambulance services holding contracts for air ambulance and air rescue services in different regions of the country. The biggest one of them (ADAC Luftrettung GmbH, a daughter company of the german AA) alone operates nearly 50 helicopters which are mostly, but not exclusively EC135s. They started flying in 1970 - more than 40 years ago, and do so from 31 bases within Germany and a further 2 abroad in Austria and The Netherlands. Another company called DRF (Deutsche Rettungsflugwacht) again operates 50 or so helicopters. They have been flying since 1973. And there are more. They all get public funding and they all manage to justify their expenses and proof their value to the public again and again.

In the german town where I have been living last before coming to Ireland we had two helicopters for just over 230.000 people (based in Halle-Oppin, EDAQ), and the next nearest base with another 2 helicopters was just 20km away (Leipzig/Halle, EDDP). The whole area is very well accessible, crossed by several motorways and densely-populated, so nothing like Oz. But even in areas with far less population like the northeastern coastal region of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern helicopter services are provided.

Nobody really questions the usefulness of having a well developed air ambulance system in Germany, not even the health insurance companies who have to fund the services. And knowing how much fighting is going on over every Euro being spent by any health service there these services simply must provide value or they would have ceased to exist many, many years ago.
I think the problem clearly is the way these things would have to be funded here, and in my opinion a charity running a single machine would most definitely not be up to the job. Maybe a general health insurance system like the one planned by Minister Reilly really is the way to go, once a culture of accountability has been established in the health administration. Then funding for a well organized air ambulance and air rescue service with blanket-coverage surely would not be wasted. But for now I'm not so sure.

Klunk001

You make some very good points there. Do the military in Germany provide any of these services or are they all civilian operators as in other countries where this service is provided? Should this go ahead here in the new year, it is very important for the people who will be using this service that it is transparent and can be audited, dedicated, and not an ad hoc operation.

Quaderno

Klunk001 wrote: »

You make some very good points there. Do the military in Germany provide any of these services or are they all civilian operators as in other countries where this service is provided? Should this go ahead here in the new year, it is very important for the people who will be using this service that it is transparent and can be audited, dedicated, and not an ad hoc operation.

Thanks, I simply find it very interesting to see (and live through) all the changes the current crisis will bring to many areas, not least the health system. Many of those disruptive changes should have happened a long time ago, so there really is a good chance that things will eventually be better for the people once this is over. But back to topic:

The military in Germany has actually been the first entity to provide air rescue services, they started doing that in 1959. However, they stopped flying civilian ambulance missions in 2006 and as of today they only step in when they are needed for special SAR-operations where no civilian helicopter is available or doesn't have the equipment needed. So, AFAIK all currently licensed operators are civilian.

EDIT: I just checked my facts. While I was right in that the military has withdraw from civilian air ambulance operations there is one other non-civilian operator left. The German Ministry of the Interior (Bundesinnenministerium) are still providing helicopters and staff for 12 bases. While their primary purpose is support in major emergency situations (Katastrophenschutz) they are used in "normal" air rescue and ambulance missions on a regular basis.

There is one interesting thing, though. A group of 18 civilian helicopter operators has pooled their resources together in a joint company called Helialert. Between them they own about 180 machines from small Robinsons to a massive MIL Mi 26 T. In case of a major emergency they can provide almost any number of transport capacity and some special functions like fire fighting and heavy lifting on a very short notice through one single channel of communication. It's basically a private on-request civil defense operator with a massive technical capacity at a very low cost, since all the machines are normally used for routine work and are already paid for anyway. Of course they charge the state for their services (and are required to respond when needed on a contractual basis), but on the other hand this is an extremely efficient way of using available resources without the state being required to provide a lot of additional and expensive standby-machinery which is hardly ever used. I wonder if something like that could be done here...

Klunk001

Quaderno wrote: »

Thanks, I simply find it very interesting to see (and live through) all the changes the current crisis will bring to many areas, not least the health system. Many of those disruptive changes should have happened a long time ago, so there really is a good chance that things will eventually be better for the people once this is over. But back to topic:

The military in Germany has actually been the first entity to provide air rescue services, they started doing that in 1959. However, they stopped flying civilian ambulance missions in 2006 and as of today they only step in when they are needed for special SAR-operations where no civilian helicopter is available or doesn't have the equipment needed. So, AFAIK all currently licensed operators are civilian.

EDIT: I just checked my facts. While I was right in that the military has withdraw from civilian air ambulance operations there is one other non-civilian
operator left. The German Ministry of the Interior (Bundesinnenministerium) are still providing helicopters and staff for 12 bases. While their primary purpose is support in major emergency situations (Katastrophenschutz) they are used in "normal" air rescue and ambulance missions on a regular basis.

There is one interesting thing, though. A group of 18 civilian helicopter
operators has pooled their resources together in a joint company called Helialert. Between them they own about 180 machines from small Robinsons to a massive MIL Mi 26 T. In case of a major emergency they can provide almost any number of transport capacity and some special functions like fire fighting and heavy lifting on a very short notice through one single channel of communication. It's basically a private on-request civil defense operator with a massive technical capacity at a very low cost, since all the machines are normally used for routine work and are already paid for anyway. Of course they charge the state for their services (and are required to respond when needed on a contractual basis), but on the other hand this is an extremely
efficient way of using available resources without the state being required to provide a lot of additional and expensive standby-machinery which is hardly ever used. I wonder if something like that could be done here...

Sounds like a very good way of doing things, including a lot of common sense being used.......so don't expect any of that to be used here.:D

xflyer

Any use of the Air Corps for this service would be foolish in the extreme. For a start the Air Corps has long fought shy of any deployment away from Baldonnel. That won't change. The crews will have to be based locally and permanently. Plus there's the question of the fact that any use of the Air Corps will have to be fully funded by the taxpayer. Where as we have a group intending to run a service with little or no taxpayer input.

Plus the helicopter will have to be fully and permanently fitted out as an air ambulance rather than the current patient transfer set up. It will be lost to the Air Corps as a result.

It makes absolutely no sense to get the Air Corps involved. Have they learned nothing from the SAR debacle?

omg a kitty

boredbaby wrote: »

Don't think there will be any new assets purchased for or by the Air Corps to run this service if it goes ahead. Heard a rumour it will be done by one of their existing EC135s and based somewhere in the West...most probably a barracks.

But..the 135s are used by Air Corps as trainers..they only have two and they're gonna lose 1 of them to a permenant air ambulance set up?
That won't work
1 helicopter left to train pilots?

xflyer

omg a kitty wrote: »

But..the 135s are used by Air Corps as trainers..they only have two and they're gonna lose 1 of them to a permenant air ambulance set up?
That won't work
1 helicopter left to train pilots?

Exactly, even a fifteen year old can see it's a foolish idea.

No disrespect OMG;)

balkanhawk

I have s feeling the HSE will go for the option that doesn't involve any capital outlay, they simply don't have the money. That could very well mean the air corps.

under current rules only the coast guard and air corps can operate vfr at night in Ireland. Any charity or for-profit outfit that does tender will only be able to operate daytime hours. That is a big drawback for these chaps.

boredbaby

xflyer...just out of intetest, do you believe that a charity funded organisation will be able to afford to run a HEMS operation on an ongoing basis?

I could see the money drying up after the first years' operation and then who'll be left paying somewhere in the region of 30k per week to the private operator to carry on....the taxpayer.

Now, haven't the AC got a fleet of state owned aircraft equipped to do the job, funded under an existing defence budget with no additional cost to the taxpayer to provide this service.

If they are in a position to do the job properly at no additional cost to us (the taxpayers), then why would anybody argue with that?

omg a kitty

boredbaby wrote: »

xflyer...just out of intetest, do you believe that a charity funded organisation will be able to afford to run a HEMS operation on an ongoing basis?

I could see the money drying up after the first years' operation and then who'll be left paying somewhere in the region of 30k per week to the private operator to carry on....the taxpayer.

Now, haven't the AC got a fleet of state owned aircraft equipped to do the job, funded under an existing defence budget with no additional cost to the taxpayer to provide this service.

If they are in a position to do the job properly at no additional cost to us (the taxpayers), then why would anybody argue with that?

Exactly..and nobody would
And since we are, that means theyre not in a position to do the job properly, not with the 135s anyway

xflyer

The Coastguard operate at night, they are civilian. No reason a HEMS service can't...........however that is not neccessarily a good idea. Whatever about ferrying patients between well lit hospitals or airports. Dropping into accident sites on dark nights is highly dangerous. I can't imagine it would be other than a daylight only operation.

Boredbaby

If they are in a position to do the job properly at no additional cost to us (the taxpayers), then why would anybody argue with that?

And if that was the position, there would be no argument. But they're not in a position to do it and there would be additional cost to the taxpayer. It would mean buying additional helicopters and equipment, it would mean additional pilots and crew, additional training, additional infrastructure, all taxpayer funded.

It is not an accident that SAR was taken from the Air Corps some time ago. The Air Corps is too small to have any meaningful deployments away from Baldonnel.

It's also no accident than in general HEMS services are operated by civilians in most cases I can think of. It is not a military function to provide an ambulance service on the ground. There is no reason it should do so in the air either.

Now a charity funded service may or may not succeed. If it doesn't it won't be propped up by the taxpayer. There is no money for it anymore. So it will stand or fall on it's own merits.

The Air Corps is not the answer to everything aviation in this country. Already it spends too much time and taxpayers money on jobs better and more cheaply done by civilians.

boredbaby

And if that was the position, there would be no argument. But they're not in a position to do it and there would be additional cost to the taxpayer. It would mean buying additional helicopters and equipment, it would mean additional pilots and crew, additional training, additional infrastructure, all taxpayer funded.

It is not an accident that SAR was taken from the Air Corps some time ago. The Air Corps is too small to have any meaningful deployments away from Baldonnel.

It's also no accident than in general HEMS services are operated by civilians in most cases I can think of. It is not a military function to provide an ambulance service on the ground. There is no reason it should do so in the air either.

Now a charity funded service may or may not succeed. If it doesn't it won't be propped up by the taxpayer. There is no money for it anymore. So it will stand or fall on it's own merits.

The Air Corps is not the answer to everything aviation in this country. Already it spends too much time and taxpayers money on jobs better and more cheaply done by civilians.

So many of the points you have just made are incorrect IMO, so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one and wait for the announcement in a few weeks time.

A safe and prosperous Christmas period to everybody. Im off to the sunshine for a couple of weeks!

xflyer

Well for ya!

Obviously you favour the Air Corps, time will tell. But there is no realistic possibility that the Air Corps will take this on without a large input of taxpayers money. Either it comes out of their budget or the HSE's budget.

How likely is that?

Meanwhile someone is offering to do it with minimal or no taxpayer funding.

It's a no brainer.

Klunk001

xflyer wrote: »

It's a no brainer.

This being Ireland, it's obviously not. Watch this space:eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0116/1224310310715.html

zone 1

Klunk001 wrote: »

This being Ireland, it's obviously not. Watch this space:eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0116/1224310310715.html

i can see this happing with no real fuction . AC need to hang on to something . would it mean a increase in HELLO for AC . or just work with what they have .also would this not mean repainting them as a ambulance service kind of break away service coast guard colour maybe..

omg a kitty

Klunk001 wrote: »

This being Ireland, it's obviously not. Watch this space:eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0116/1224310310715.html

If its a case where Air Corps provide pilots and maintenance for helicopters owned by HSE, it could work, like GASU.

I don't understand how the HSE can get the Air Corps to do this with their own Helis. Isn't the fleet property of DoD?
Sorry if thats a stupid question..

westdub

omg a kitty wrote: »

If its a case where Air Corps provide pilots and maintenance for helicopters owned by HSE, it could work, like GASU.

The Air Corps does not maintain the GASU helicopters.. They only supply the Pilots...

kub

Does this mean so that if a major accident happens say within 100 km of Baldonnel then great the service will be saving lives.

What happens with the major accident in West Mayo or Kerry/ West Cork?

What about that golden hour rule in first aid? Are they planning on basing AC crews aorund the country similar to the Coast Guard?

Delancey

I would like to see evidence of the need for this service , the whole thing smells of a prestige project for politicians and money that could be used to keep hospital beds open gets diverted into an expensive and unnescessary service.

xflyer

Oh dear, yet another example of how Dr Reilly and his government are massively out of their depth. They're beginning to make the last FF government look competent. Just how many hospital wards will have to be closed to make this work?

On the other hand I suspect zone 1's assessment might be correct. Pure window dressing, no real function. I imagine the Air Corps has been lobbying for it. If you have at look at their facebook page there's a lot of emphasis on their 'air ambulance' service, which is really patient transfer. It's a whole different ball game to provide emergency cover for accidents.

One thing to point out is that in the USA, HEMS services are considered one of the most dangerous with a lot of accidents. Do we really need mission oriented military pilots attempting to get in and out of tight landing zones at night in bad weather using NVGs? We could easily have another Dauphin/Waterford incident.

Jesus Nut

A EC-135 or AW-139 will be based at Finner and another will be based in south west somewhere also and the rest in Baldonnel as normal.
I heard that was the plan from a mate who flys the 139 in the don.
Great news for the lads in no.3 squad. They might get to up the log book hours at long last

groundhurling

It's all well and good having the aircraft, but what about the medical staff? Yes the air corps have doctors and paramedics, but we really need trauma doctors, anaesthetists and advanced paramedics which the air corps (I assume?) don't have. Would the HSE/Dublin Fire Brigade be supplying these? I don't know how they work their air ambulances now, but this is something that would need to be looked at. To be fair I'm probably wrong, maybe they do have doctors, anaesthetists and paramedics now?

xflyer

So are they going to equip at least two helicopters to full HEMS standards and base enough fully trained Air Corps crews locally for full 24/7 coverage? At huge cost to the taxpayer.

Or will they position the current helicopters equipped as they are on a daily basis and constantly rotate crews to the detriment of Air Corps training, morale and efficiency of the ambulance service? Is is going to be no more than a decentralised patient transfer system? The usual Irish solution to an Irish problem.

I know which one I believe will happen.

roundymac

How many hospitals have landing pads for helo's or a site nearby. The two major hospitals in Cork City the CUH and the Mercy do not, any medavac has to land at Cork airport, minimum 5 miles distance.

Klunk001

I suppose at the end of the day some people have decided that some sort of role had to be found for the heli's and crews of no 3, who have been well under utilised with their fleet of relatively new aircraft. Whether it should be this role, well time will tell.

A xflyer has said, as a military organisation they seem to do an awful lot of air ambulance flights, something that is done in other European states with civilian operators who have to follow best European practice (JAR op 3). The military self regulate and like to keep this in house where possible, don't know if that is a good thing.

If it is the case that this goes ahead in Fubruary, operating from three different bases that is a serious upping for the IAC logistically, here's hoping lessons have been learned (tramore) and no short cuts will be taken getting there.

Delancey

Fact is the Air Corps really are not needed anymore ( if they were ever needed that is ) and they are desperately seeking to justify their existence with this plan which will doubtless prove a huge waste of scarce funds.
I wonder will Shatter's upcoming Defence review paper ask the tough questions that must be asked.

zone 1

The aer corps have 6 AW139 remove 3 for air ambulance.. the army 8500 troops its alot of work for 3 helicopter with exercises maybe I'm wrong...what about the coast guard with the helicopters that are been replaced could they not fill that AA slot

Neworder79

roundymac wrote: »

How many hospitals have landing pads for helo's or a site nearby. The two major hospitals in Cork City the CUH and the Mercy do not, any medavac has to land at Cork airport, minimum 5 miles distance.

In the west the following do, though probably not equipped for night use:

Castlebar
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,514325,789719,7,0

Sligo
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,569666,836371,7,0

Galway' (UCHG)
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,528695,725681,7,0

Letterkenny
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,616972,912718,7,0

Ballinasloe and Roscommon have ample open green nearby also.

punchdrunk

zone 1 wrote: »

The aer corps have 6 AW139 remove 3 for air ambulance.. the army 8500 troops its alot of work for 3 helicopter with exercises maybe I'm wrong...what about the coast guard with the helicopters that are been replaced could they not fill that AA slot

the S-61's are the property of CHC,after they get replaced by S-92's they will undoubtedly leave Ireland for somewhere else

In any case the Air Corps don't have enough people currently rated on them or the ability to maintain them (I mean they failed to keep one crewed and running what chance would they have with six??)
in fact I'd imagine a lot of the air corps lads who were trained to fly/crew/maintain the S-61 are now flying for CHC anyway.

I disagree with the notion that they never had purpose
the crews of no 3 squadron were fighting with one hand tied behind their backs more or less from day one,and given the resources they had did an admirable job

but the government and Officer staff of the Air Corps never truly supported the SAR role,and still the lads did a sterling job of it anyway;within the limited means available to them regularly taking big risks due to "higher ups" making incompetent decisions
tragically this came to a head with Tramore
but Lets not do disservice to the memories of those who served the state and paid the ultimate price,many people were saved by these men.

but the harsh reality is,the Air Corps have gone down a rabbit hole with regard to skills and expertise in this area,and it's not something you can suddenly decide to fix!
they simply don't have the experience needed for this or the logistics to support it.

I hope they can prove me wrong,but I have a horrible feeling this will go pear shaped

Delancey

Kooch wrote: »

As a Moderator you're not very moderate when posting your opinions as "facts". I would imagine the hundreds of people who have been assisted by the Air Corps throughout the decades, especially through SAR and Air Ambulance might have a less cynical view of the organisation.

Kooch , as someone with just 3 posts you may not be aware but its considered to be somewhat ' off ' to raise the issue of the moderator status of another poster with whom you disagree.
On this forum I'm just another poster and subject to the same rules as everyone else. Thanks