rateyourlandlord.ie

LaLucy

I am in the process of creating a website where tenants and past tenants can rate their landlords, kind of like a reference point for prospective tenants.

How does that sound?

After all a landlord is a business owner and we are all entitled to rate businesses.

I am thinking of doing a point system to keep it simple with option of leaving comments. Am I allowed to name the landlord and address?

convert

I thought this had been tried before - relatively recently, if I remember correctly - but ran into difficulties, not least due to the potential legal problems of landlords having untrue and/or difficult to prove things posted about them and their property?

LaLucy

Well I have never heard of it. I don't understand why a tenant would lie about a landlord if they were a decent landlord. There needs to be something there to make landlords want to keep good standards.

Ian Beale

Legal minefield, you'd have solicitors letters by the sack full.

LaLucy

C*ck it!!!!!!!!

horgan_p

the equivalent of spraying petrol around a fireworks factory , while smoking a cigar.

afrodub

LaLucy wrote: »

I am in the process of creating a website where tenants and past tenants can rate their landlords, kind of like a reference point for prospective tenants.

How does that sound?

After all a landlord is a business owner and we are all entitled to rate businesses.

I am thinking of doing a point system to keep it simple with option of leaving comments. Am I allowed to name the landlord and address?

This is a very laudable initiative,to positively allow prospective tenants to be assured their potential landlord is a `good` one and equally to ensure those less scrupulous landlords may well then be `shamed` to improve their practices.

nu-g 2008

There is a site in the UK called rate or hate your landlord and they dont seem to have any trouble ! Also there is a site called landlord referencing where they discuss tenant information.There is definitely a need for this type of thing as some Landlords can be 'rogue' and a nightmare for tenants , however i would have to say the same about tenants ! Renting can be messy !

StillWaters

I think it might be problematic, tripadvisor and even ratemyteacher are fair in that there is such a number of people rating that it evens out the cranks from the reasonable people, whereas most landlords will only have one review.

There is definitely a market for shopping rogue landlords though - are PRTB/Small claims court findings public, could you collate them in one website?

BostonB

LaLucy wrote: »

Well I have never heard of it. I don't understand why a tenant would lie about a landlord if they were a decent landlord. There needs to be something there to make landlords want to keep good standards.

...And do another for tenants too...

Treehouse72

Whoa, good luck with this OP, but the legal jeopardy would be way, way too rich for my tastes. You better have a lot of switched-on moderators!

Aprilmay

BostonB wrote: »

...And do another for tenants too...

I agree I'm not a landlord but I know of people who rented homes to tenants and from the state they left the homes in they'd have been better off letting the animals in Dublin zoo stay in the house. I think a site like that would be a legal mind field as its could be purely hearsay on the part of the tenants.

antiskeptic

LaLucy wrote: »

I am in the process of creating a website where tenants and past tenants can rate their landlords, kind of like a reference point for prospective tenants.

How does that sound?

After all a landlord is a business owner and we are all entitled to rate businesses.

I am thinking of doing a point system to keep it simple with option of leaving comments. Am I allowed to name the landlord and address?

How would you tell the difference between someone who genuinely had a beef with the landlord and someone who fell foul of the landlord due to their being a poor tenant.

It wouldn't be at all difficult to write a bogus* negative review without revealing it as much by ranting.

*someone can be blind to their own culpability in things - they'll write what they reckon is an honest assessment but it will still be bogus.

godtabh

LaLucy wrote: »

I am in the process of creating a website where tenants and past tenants can rate their landlords, kind of like a reference point for prospective tenants.

How does that sound?

After all a landlord is a business owner and we are all entitled to rate businesses.

I am thinking of doing a point system to keep it simple with option of leaving comments. Am I allowed to name the landlord and address?

If I saw my name up there I'd be straight down to my solicitors office regardless if it is good or bad.

All you will get on that site will be rants from tenants and will be totally unbalanced

RATM

There is already a Hall of Shame over at http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/?section=hall_of_shame

So it appears if it can be done with the legal community then I don't see why not with landlords. After all it stands to reason that solititors are best placed to launch legal actions against a site like this and it appears it hasn't happened as it is still in operation.

OP before doing this I would ask about it in the legal forum. It might be the case that rateyoursolicitor.com is based in the States and hosted there and so enjoys protection from Freedom of Speech under the US Constitution. If you had a .ie domain you'd be under Irish law AFAIK and that might not be conducive to a site like the one you're proposing.

Alternatively you could mine the data for the last few years over at http://public.prtb.ie/disputes2011.htm
and categorise the disputes between LL and tenants and the resolutions to them also. You could build up a steady picture of the goings on at the PRTB over time and no doubt some landlords and tenants names will pop up more than once.

BostonB

RATM wrote: »

There is already a Hall of Shame over at http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/?section=hall_of_shame

So it appears if it can be done with the legal community then I don't see why not with landlords. After all it stands to reason that solititors are best placed to launch legal actions against a site like this and it appears it hasn't happened as it is still in operation. .....

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0723/1224301202936.html

Only a matter of time. They had to make a lot of effort in making themselves as hard as possible to find.

antiskeptic

A way to proceed might involve rating according to certain, relevant criteria from 1 to 10. That way you might better avoid libellous statements of the type likely to result in legal action.

Someone once proposed that every driver be issued with a childs dart gun - the type with sucker tips on them. Each time you saw some other driver do something foolish, you fired a dart at their car. Whenever the cops saw someone with darts stuck all over their car they'd issue a ticket on the basis of majority opinion.

If the rating site clearly stated that a single poor rating didn't necessarily mean a poor landlord but that multiple poor ratings might be indicative of a problem then the courts might take a pragmatic view.

-

I gather there is no law to stop you standing outside a shop with a protest sign saying you are "very dissatisfied with x aspect of the shops service" whereas standing outside with a sign saying "this shop are a bunch of thieving shysters" might well find you up in court on libel charges. Libel laws don't prevent you expressing an opinion. It just needs to couched in the right way.

BostonB

antiskeptic wrote: »

...
Someone once proposed that every driver be issued with a childs dart gun - the type with sucker tips on them. Each time you saw some other driver do something foolish, you fired a dart at their car. Whenever the cops saw someone with darts stuck all over their car they'd issue a ticket on the basis of majority opinion....

Fun as that sounds, its also as daft as a broom.

Video camera's in cars, bikes are a bit more practical.

antiskeptic

BostonB wrote: »

Fun as that sounds, its also as daft as a broom.

I didn't interpret the notion of kitting out drivers with sticky darts something to be taken literally. "Justice delivered by massed individual opinions" was an idea to be conveyed by idotic device.

At least, that's how I understood it when I read it.

BostonB

My point was there's no need for a mass of anecdotal stories, with no evidence, and easily manipulated, when common sense is much more practical. For example all you need is to video a single event, or have evidence like a photo.

The idea that something must be true because its on the web is deeply flawed. And voting and opinions are easily manipulated. For example in your little, construct, a traffic wardens van would be like a hedgehog from darts. Ditto somebody in a Ferrari.

the_syco

LaLucy wrote: »

Well I have never heard of it. I don't understand why a tenant would lie about a landlord if they were a decent landlord. There needs to be something there to make landlords want to keep good standards.

If the landlord was a big meanie, the tenant could suddenly call them a "sexual perving rapist" on your website, and the landlord then sues you for slander, as it's your website.

Coriolanus

Have it registered and hosted in Taiwan or something.

LaLucy

There should at least be something for a prospective tenant to see what type of landlord they are dealing with. Why is it just landlords get references? Who knows what one landlords is saying to the other?
Some landlords are truly insane but I am learning through your comments that my idea is not so thought out. As I said and someone mentioned maybe a simple point system would work? Just ratings on things like, was it difficult to get things fixed/attended to?
In turn a landlord can be notified of it and leave a comment if they feel it unfair.
Perhaps do as someone suggested, collect the data from PRTB site so when you click on a landlord/tenant on my site you will instantly see if they have had past disputes.

There needs to be something. Change needs to happen! This is 2011 for the love of!

Penguino

Tenants are free to ask Landlords for previous references. I'm sure good landlords won't have a problem passing on references. If they don't then the tenant should continue looking for a more suitable place to live.

LaLucy

Penguino wrote: »

Tenants are free to ask Landlords for previous references. I'm sure good landlords won't have a problem passing on references. If they don't then the tenant should continue looking for a more suitable place to live.

Yeah they're free to ask but its not a requirement on the landlords part . Can they really give you a previous tenants number? If there could be an exchange of references then the prospective tenant wouldn't have to feel worried about how the landlord might perceive them wanting references. They could come across as a nuisance and make an enemy of the landlord from the start.

I have lost out on 2 references now because right on the last day the landlord becomes psychotic over having to hand back the deposit and you leave on bad terms. They don't answer your calls or requests for a reference. So that's 2 years altogether renting unanswered for through no fault of my own.

Mr. Presentable

And if a Landlord decides to start a rateyourtenant website and names you and lists your habits you'd be OK with that?

The entire idea smacks of abuse.

In the real world the only risks in a tenancy agreement are with the LL. Don't pay your rent? Can't get thrown out. Destroy the place? Bet your deposit doesn't cover it.

I have no doubt there are terrible landlords out there, but they are at least matched in number by terrible tenants.

OP, pay a solicitor and get some good legal advice to protect yourself.

BostonB

I don't disagree in general. But if you look at the cases on the PRTB. The LL not returning a deposit seems to the most common problem. From my reading of it, the PRTB usually finds the LL should return some of the deposit but not all. As usually there breakages, or break in contract. Both sides usually did their heels in.

Really should be held by a 3rd party, as in other countries. It would eliminate a lot of hassle for both LL's and Tenants.

Treehouse72

A single incorrect accusation of a LL not returning a deposit would be a libel. So I do ask myself how the site could you ever tell the difference between a genuine and libellous allegation along these lines. You would only need to get it wrong once and you're screwed.

plasmaguy

Legal minefield definitely.

Bad tenant asked to move out, they get their revenge by annonymously posting lies about the landlord on the site. Landlord would bring the site owners to court.

Save yourself the money and hassle.

Coriolanus

Hmm. Was thinking about this today. How is it any different to the likes of amazon user reviews (this electric shaver came to life and raped my prize poodle, 0 stars) or something like yelp (the staff in this restaurant followed me home and raped my prize poodle, 0 stars).
Plenty of slanderous, probably untrue stuff gets posted on online review sites all the time, how do the likes of the above avoid lawsuits from McDonalds and Philips?

BostonB

Company vs an individual maybe?

Coriolanus

Yeah, maybe.

I'm wondering now would yelp allow submissions for residential addresses. They already have the infrastructure etc and anyone can "add" a business, so a tenant could add the address they're staying at and leave a comment. Not sure how much control registered/confirmed owners have over the page for their business however.

Treehouse72

Nevore wrote: »

Hmm. Was thinking about this today. How is it any different to the likes of amazon user reviews (this electric shaver came to life and raped my prize poodle, 0 stars) or something like yelp (the staff in this restaurant followed me home and raped my prize poodle, 0 stars).
Plenty of slanderous, probably untrue stuff gets posted on online review sites all the time, how do the likes of the above avoid lawsuits from McDonalds and Philips?

Couple of things spring to mind.

1. Law of large numbers: Complaints will always be a minority for any popular venture. So the odd complaint about a Phillips razor isn't likely to go against the greater flow of opinion, so Philips probably don't mind about the odd untrue statement. That would not be the case with an individual landlord where he may only have 1 comment about him.
2. Fair comment. It might be fair comment to say a Big Mac was the most disgusting thing you ever ate, if all you ever ate was Truffles and Foie Gras. By contrast, saying Liam the Landlord did something terrible is either true or not true - it is less likely to be an opinion and more likely to be a statement of fact (true or false).

BostonB

Treehouse72 wrote: »

...1. Law of large numbers: Complaints will always be a minority for any popular venture. So the odd complaint about a Phillips razor isn't likely to go against the greater flow of opinion, so Philips probably don't mind about the odd untrue statement. That would not be the case with an individual landlord where he may only have 1 comment about him....

Well thats not strictly true its mainly its only the people with complaints who would bother to post. The vast majority of people who are happy, don't bother.

IMO.

Monife

Nevore wrote: »

Hmm. Was thinking about this today. How is it any different to the likes of amazon user reviews (this electric shaver came to life and raped my prize poodle, 0 stars) or something like yelp (the staff in this restaurant followed me home and raped my prize poodle, 0 stars).
Plenty of slanderous, probably untrue stuff gets posted on online review sites all the time, how do the likes of the above avoid lawsuits from McDonalds and Philips?

Or the likes of tripadvisor? Some people really go the whole hog when slating a hotel, but tripadvisor has the below quoted text under each review:

This review is the subjective opinion of a TripAdvisor member and not of TripAdvisor LLC Report problem with review

And it gives the manager/owner of the business the chance to post a reply to the review. That could be an option with Rate Your Landlord...

Treehouse72

BostonB wrote: »

Well thats not strictly true its mainly its only the people with complaints who would bother to post. The vast majority of people who are happy, don't bother.

IMO.

Sure, but if you are selling 1m Big Macs a day and one guy on the internet says the meat is made of cardboard it's not going to worry them too much.

BostonB

Yes but your comparing a huge faceless corporation vs an individual. Also the scale of customers is completely disparate. They might have one customer a year, MD's has 47 million customers a day.

mari2222

perhaps people could post that they are willing to receive a pm or give a pm opinion on a particular property

Treehouse72

BostonB wrote: »

Yes but your comparing a huge faceless corporation vs an individual. Also the scale of customers is completely disparate. They might have one customer a year, MD's has 47 million customers a day.

This merely backs up the original point about LL's and tenants: the small number of tenants that any LL would have would amplify libellous remarks made by those tenants.

Such libels are diluted with a large corporations who have many customers. Not that they wouldn't action it, but the law of large numbers means it will be proportionally less important to them, thus less injurious. There's nowhere to hide when it's just a small number of tenants and LL's.

scaryfairy

I don't know, have been thinking about this whole tenant-LL relationship (even before the thread started) and I would definitely not want to post reviews about LLs or be reviewed by LLs on a public site... however, I think that the current system is very one-way and in many ways, understandably so: landlords have loads to lose, much more than a 1-month deposit.
Having said that, when a tenant is locked in a lease (for a year usually?), and that apt/house is hell, because of landlord or neighbours etc, it's also quite a subtantial commitment, and which is normally based on a 10-min viewing...

What I am trying to say is that I think it would be quite logical to build into the system as a routine the provision of references by tenants who are moving out on the property + on communication with the landlord or agency. The landlord wants to know before a tenant moves in whether s/he is capable of paying the rent and would keep the property tidy from previous landlords (and as such, receives quite intimate details about the tenant: salary info etc). In the same way, us, tenants could find out from previous tenants whether the place is OK to live in and that the landlord is fine to deal with.

I think most people (LLs and tenants) are honest and decent and it should not be a problem. I have to say all but 1 landlord was great and have been renting in several countries, but I do feel a bit unconfortable about this lack of balance...